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[phupaman]

Hi
   Cougar 52,, Was it like that with Thaksin and the courts, only worse.
phupaman

[wrecker]

They should immediately cancel the pension of this chap. HE is co responsible for what is going on, he is a PAD supporter, Both he and Prem should be brought to trial. If Thaksin gets a prison term, Chamlong and Sondhi and the mountain goat impersonator should be given the bullet. Especially given the fact that they demand sympathy from everybody and cause sorrow for hundreds of thousands of people. Sick, dying, children, elderly travellers. And if this work, the UDD should apply the very sam tactic to any new government that is formed. Unfortunately in this backward country, the leaders are all in their late 70's and 80's. They live a life from back in the 70's. People who are over 70 should resign and ask younger people to rule. We need an kind of Obama here, a young guy who lives now and not in the past. What the PAD is doing is nothing less than trying to keep the clock from going forward. they have had a cozy live in which they could misuse the boys as virtual slaves in their factories, the girls as entertainers from the worst kind, and they held the elderly hostage by denying them healthcare and schooling for their children and grandchildren. Take all the money that these people hold, and confiscate it, they have caused considerable more damage to Thailand than Thaksin could do in 7 lives.
Where is the police how cme the generals are not purged? Where are the sharpshooters who take out all armed civilians disobeying orders to disperse? Where are the courts that jumped over Thaksin and his cronies whenever they could and that are held in contempt by the PAD over and over. Thaksin has a case, the system is rotten, the elite is rotten, the generals are rotten. If anyone give the PAD what they want you better emigrate to Zimbabwe Mugabe is more decent than Sondhi and Chamlong.

[Farfetched]

OK, so we have a coupe. They hold new elections and the same government under a new name is brought back into power. What has been gained.  

Ok, so we go the route of the PAD, and let them select the the MP's and a new Prime Minister. Then the Red shirts come out and protest just the same as PAD has. What have we gained.

It is time to let the people decide and may the best or strongest team win. Democracy comes with a price. It is time to pay the piper. I do not see anyway around mass bloodshed at this point in time. It will happen. It has already started to happen. hel_l, Even different factions of the military are divided on what to do. The time has come to S#!T or get of the pot.

The PAD is nothing but a bunch of spoiled middle and upper class fools that are mad because they did not get their way. The rural farmers are the smart one for taking the bribes from both sides and then voting their will.

LET PAD FALL TO THEIR KNEES AND BEG FOR MERCY.

IMHO

[dave9988]

Btw, PPP plans to bring 200,000 people to Bangkok. Perhaps those of you in the North can weigh in on the atmosphere there. Are the people prepared to fight and die for their democratic ideal of representation in government?

[Asian Frog]

But to stage a coup you must control the Army totally or nearly. Is it the situation today? Inside the Army is the Government without Allies? I think the situation quite different from 2006. Your opinion?

[dave9988]

Farfetched, on 2008-11-27 16:18:12, said:

OK, so we have a coupe. They hold new elections and the same government under a new name is brought back into power. What has been gained.

Ok, so we go the route of the PAD, and let them select the the MP's and a new Prime Minister. Then the Red shirts come out and protest just the same as PAD has. What have we gained.

The Army won't be worrying about civilian causulaties when its the red shirts protesting.

[sunray69]

I think to remove the protesters is legitimate and is the job of the police force...

[slim]

If 5000 blue shirted Conservatives stormed Heathrow and demanded that the army overthrow the democratically elected government and the resignation of Gordon Brown it would result in anarchy.

Lets face it Sondhi Lomthongkul and his right wing PAD dont just want the resignation of the current prime minister - they want power irrespective of the wishes of the popular vote.

Having successfully forced the CNS (Council for National Security) to stage a bloodless coup in September 2006 which saw the end of Thaksin and the TRT he must have thought he'd breeze through a new round of elections having prevented Thai Ruk Thai's 111 executives members from engaging in politics for 5 years. Little could he have imagined that the PPP rising from the ashes of the TRT would sweep to power again in February of this year.

Sondhi and the PAD cannot keep on claiming "foul" everytime they lose an election.

By rights Sondhi should be arrested and charged with insurrection.

We all know this is not going to happen.

With the army and the police divided between support for the PPP and support for the PAD the current situation can only escalate.

Long live the King - because without him Thailand would be on the brink of civil war.

Edited by slim, 2008-11-27 16:24:13.

[whatawonderfulday]

wrecker, on 2008-11-27 16:16:09, said:

They should immediately cancel the pension of this chap. HE is co responsible for what is going on, he is a PAD supporter, Both he and Prem should be brought to trial. If Thaksin gets a prison term, Chamlong and Sondhi and the mountain goat impersonator should be given the bullet. Especially given the fact that they demand sympathy from everybody and cause sorrow for hundreds of thousands of people. Sick, dying, children, elderly travellers. And if this work, the UDD should apply the very sam tactic to any new government that is formed. Unfortunately in this backward country, the leaders are all in their late 70's and 80's. They live a life from back in the 70's. People who are over 70 should resign and ask younger people to rule. We need an kind of Obama here, a young guy who lives now and not in the past. What the PAD is doing is nothing less than trying to keep the clock from going forward. they have had a cozy live in which they could misuse the boys as virtual slaves in their factories, the girls as entertainers from the worst kind, and they held the elderly hostage by denying them healthcare and schooling for their children and grandchildren. Take all the money that these people hold, and confiscate it, they have caused considerable more damage to Thailand than Thaksin could do in 7 lives.
Where is the police how cme the generals are not purged? Where are the sharpshooters who take out all armed civilians disobeying orders to disperse? Where are the courts that jumped over Thaksin and his cronies whenever they could and that are held in contempt by the PAD over and over. Thaksin has a case, the system is rotten, the elite is rotten, the generals are rotten. If anyone give the PAD what they want you better emigrate to Zimbabwe Mugabe is more decent than Sondhi and Chamlong.

Ehm, do I detect slight resentment of the PAD .

[dageshi]

favre360, on 2008-11-27 15:57:02, said:

faranginbkk, on 2008-11-27 16:45:13, said:

Coup is the last - and worst - option.  I will not support it.

After a possible coup - so what?  The army has shown before they cannot run the country, and it is not supposed to be their job either.  So use the army only to maintain law and order together with the police.  And let the elected govt run the country.  

This implies to kick out PAD from the airport and parliament house.

It's clear the PAD will not leave the airports unless Somchai is history or the army forcibly removes them. One of these solutions has a violent outcome, the other does not. Which do you think is better for tourism, a protest ending in bloodshed and resentment or a military coup.

Honestly I imagine most people think Thailand is a joke at the moment, what first world country lets a ragtag bunch of protestors take over the nations main airport and close it down. What first world police force sits on it's hands and does nothing while this takes place? And what first world country suggests a coup as the easy way out?

The answer unfortunately is Thailand is patently not a first world country and is no danger of becoming one any time soon, when your answer to a difficult polticial question is to have a coup the whole system is a failure. I'm sorry to those who rely on tourism but on top of the financial crisis this year and next Thailand couldn't do anything more stupid than this, it's frankly laughable and I'm seriously regretting that 2 month tourist visa I just got from Laos since at the rate we're going I might as well head off to Vietnam before there are soldiers on the street. Because coup or not that seems to be where we're heading.

[narkeddiver]

Is it possible to take an American option and sue the PAD for loss of business and disruption to travel??

[scratt]

FatherF, on 2008-11-27 16:11:47, said:

I think it is better for tourism, if the elected government is seen to be strong enough to direct the police/army to remove the protesters from ALL of the places it occupies.
The current perception is that Thailand has "Mob Rule", this is no good for any trade be it tourism, business or anything else!

FF

The problem is the current government is NOT strong enough to direct the police and army.
So would you prefer a sham? How safe would that be?
It's game over. The government needs to go.

LinkPopularity, on 2008-11-27 16:13:03, said:

what is this about?
illegal wood cutting and drugs trade ... that's what the PAD is really after ... everything else is just blah

Yeah. Right. Go back to school!

dave9988, on 2008-11-27 16:14:29, said:

As long as there are elections and as long as the rural majority is allowed to vote, the elected governments will be unacceptable to the PAD.

As long as the rural majority can be bought off for 500 Baht a vote it will be unacceptable to PAD.
It's much easier to buy a few million people's votes for 500 Baht a pop than say a few thousand Bangkokians vote for several million each... You cannot have a government elected on the back of bribery. That is not democracy.

Edited by scratt, 2008-11-27 16:28:26.

[aussimike]

favre360, on 2008-11-27 15:00:24, said:

Girlfriend works for Harrow in Don Muang. Parents are coming to pick their kids up early as tanks are in the area (few km's away). Many seem certain of a coup but everyone's pretty much in the dark at this point.

was advised about 30 mins ago that there are tanks and armoured personal carriers in the area of democracy monument -- looks like things are about to happen around the city if this is the case

[dave9988]

scratt, on 2008-11-27 16:24:55, said:

dave9988, on 2008-11-27 16:14:29, said:

As long as there are elections and as long as the rural majority is allowed to vote, the elected governments will be unacceptable to the PAD.

As long as the rural majority can be bought off for 500 Baht a vote it will be unacceptable to PAD.
It's much easier to buy a few million people's votes for 500 Baht a pop than say a Bangkokians vote for several million...
You cannot have a government elected on the back of bribery.

thanks for the laugh, mate! In times like these, its good that you have kept your sense of humor!

[fsuthai]

scratt, on 2008-11-27 15:20:47, said:

george, on 2008-11-27 15:13:56, said:

The People's Alliance for Democracy insists it will continue its airport occupation and other protests until Somchai resigns. It also has rejected the general's proposal for elections, pushing instead for the appointment of a temporary government.

I didn't hear anything about the PAD rejecting fresh elections....

In any case Khun Anupong has been admirable in trying to resist calls for a coup, but now it is time for him to do so.
He is a steadfast and trustworthy man to take over at this point, and infinitely superior to the current corrupt regime.
Also, can people please stop saying that PAD want power. They do not. They want free and fair elections, and a government free of corruption. They have voluntarily disbanded once, and will do it again.

  Well put, Scratt.  Seems that George & whatever corporate hack wrote that piece for AP are backing the Thaksin shills that bought the last election!  I haven't read an honest political article from the Associated Press in years.  Shame, it used to be respected for responsible journalism.  

The "anti-rich & powerful" riots in Mumbai are just a signal of the spreading despair of the disenfrancised populaces of many nations that simply are not going to stand for the corruption, greed, internal acts of terror, and violent reactions of those in power when people try to protest peacefully.  I think we local foreigners and visiting falanges should stay out of Thai politics...period.  I'm for peace and good governance, here and back home.

[Crushdepth]

Quote

They should immediately cancel the pension of this chap. HE is co responsible for what is going on, he is a PAD supporter, Both he and Prem should be brought to trial. If Thaksin gets a prison term, Chamlong and Sondhi and the mountain goat impersonator should be given the bullet. Especially given the fact that they demand sympathy from everybody and cause sorrow for hundreds of thousands of people. Sick, dying, children, elderly travellers. And if this work, the UDD should apply the very sam tactic to any new government that is formed. Unfortunately in this backward country, the leaders are all in their late 70's and 80's. They live a life from back in the 70's. People who are over 70 should resign and ask younger people to rule. We need an kind of Obama here, a young guy who lives now and not in the past. What the PAD is doing is nothing less than trying to keep the clock from going forward. they have had a cozy live in which they could misuse the boys as virtual slaves in their factories, the girls as entertainers from the worst kind, and they held the elderly hostage by denying them healthcare and schooling for their children and grandchildren. Take all the money that these people hold, and confiscate it, they have caused considerable more damage to Thailand than Thaksin could do in 7 lives.

Where is the police how cme the generals are not purged? Where are the sharpshooters who take out all armed civilians disobeying orders to disperse? Where are the courts that jumped over Thaksin and his cronies whenever they could and that are held in contempt by the PAD over and over. Thaksin has a case, the system is rotten, the elite is rotten, the generals are rotten. If anyone give the PAD what they want you better emigrate to Zimbabwe Mugabe is more decent than Sondhi and Chamlong.

Great post. Nuke Thailand from orbit, that'll fix it, yeah. Any other useful suggestions?

[redrus]

Farfetched, on 2008-11-27 09:18:12, said:

OK, so we have a coupe.

I could do with a soft top to be honest....!





redrus

[werbs]

just announced on BBC World that military airports will be used to fly stranded tourists out

[jayceenik]

If there is a coup will YouTube be censored again?

Sorry, that's my main concern! That and the airport opened by next March when I go back to the old country!

[LB1]

Civil war - thats the best option!

Machete's and elephants at dawn. Spectators welcome.Seeing as the PAD has both airport why not have both sides fighting on the runways - you already have the stands for viewing.

Thailand poilitics are so so laughable that its only inevitable that this is happening. It's to do with the nations childish psyche,the lack of accountability,men being over pampered by Mummy and Grandma.The superficial smile,man I don't trust no one who smiles all the time.

After living in Thailand for 15yrs,I know I made the right decision taking my wife,2 kids back to England - how can you build a future on sand!

Good luck to you all,get you kevlar jackets ready..............Thailand is DOOMED!

lb1

[seri thai]

george, on 2008-11-27 14:48:08, said:

Pathompong urges Army chief to stage coup


BANGKOK: -- Gen Pathompong Kesornsuk, former chief advisor of the Supreme Command, urged Army Commander-in-Chief Gen Anupong Paochinda to stage coup to prevent himself from being sacked by the government.

Speaking to protesters at the Government House, Pathompong said the Army chief should not allow Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat to purge him.

Coup rumours were widely spread Thursday with a lot of phone calls being made to several newspapers' editorial offices to check whether coup was being staged.

The rumours came a day after Anupong called on Somchai to dissolve the House Wednesday afternoon. But Somchai went on TV late Wednesday to announce that his government would not either resign or dissolve the House.

-- The Nation 2008-11-27

Note: Please vote in our poll above. You need to be logged in in order to vote!

Am I reading correctly. Are we now being asked to vote for a coup? Isn't that a contradiction in terms, or only outide Thailand? Are Fahrangs eligible to vote for/against coups?
I think further clarification is required. Anyhow good to see forum readers finally having a say in things here. Should stop a lot of idle opinionating.

[PeaceBlondie]

Several used cliches are available for the next few posters,

Kill them all, and let Buddha sort them out.
We had to destroy the country in order to save it.  
Give peace a chance.  
My enemies are bad, I am the only good one here.  
The friend of my friend is the enemy of my enemy, and I'll have som tam, thanks.
Will the last farang out of here turn off the lights?
What if my usufruct is fruct?

[sibeymai]

Somchai won't resign unless he's told to by Thaksin and Thaksin won't tell him to. This is part of Mr. T's strategy. After the last coup the Army were hailed as national heroes for getting rid of Mr. T and his corrupt cronies for the benefit of the country. Now Mr. T will have his revenge on the army. By telling Somchai and his police buddies to do nothing with the PAD protesters Thaksin is forcing the army's hand against their best judgment. With the airports closed this can not be allowed to continue indefinitely like the occupation of Government House. Thaksin must be very pleased the PAD has made this move to the airports. Somchai will sit on his hands as long as Thaksin tells him to.

The army can't justify a coup as easily this time as Somchai hasn't done the things Thaksin was accused of. All Somchai is guilty of is being ineffective and stubborn. Hardly reasons for the army to justify a coup. Anupong no doubt realises this and is backing away from a coup because this time around the army will not be seen as the good guys rescuing the country. Even freeing up the airports of PAD protesters would be hard for the army to justify as reason for a coup both locally and internationally. Righfully this is the job of the police. Somchai and Anupong both must know this.

IF THE ARMY STAGES A COUP IT GIVES GREAT CREDIBILITY TO THAKSIN'S CLAIMS THAT THAILAND IS UNDEMOCRATIC, THAT HE IS BEING PERSECUTED FOR HIS POLITICS AND THAT THE CHARGES AGAINST HIM ARE UNFAIR. BY STAGING A COUP THE ARMY PLAYS A LOOSING HAND IN THE GAME THAKSIN IS PLAYING WITH THAILAND AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

Thaksin's game plan is for the army to stage a coup and discredit themselves in the process particularly in the eyes of the international community. There will be casualties but probably not by the army but by the as yet unidentified bombers among the PAD crowd planted there to make things worse than they otherwise would be. It won't matter who's responsible for the protester casualties the army will be blamed by the pro-government crowd and it will stick. Thailand becomes more fractured in the process. The more fractured Thailand becomes the more power and appeal Thaksin has to return as the mesiah. Thaksin wants to be begged to return, as in "Please come back. We need you. All is forgiven."

The only value in a coup is if the army takes the opportunity to clean up the rotten political core of this country. It proved too difficult last time. It can't be done without exiling, jailing and killing and it will take years. Certainly a lot longer than the time in which the international ciommunity will expect democracy to be restored. What's needed is something like a 10 year transition period where those who are corrupt want to leave can do so in the first few months after which a "Truth Commission" is empowered to investigate and punish the corrupt who remain. So it should be "pack your bags, go now and never come back, or stay and accept the consequences." At the same time the civil service should also be purged of anyone with a political connection or who was politically appointed. When elections are finally held anyone who has previously been a politician or has political connections should be banned from being a candidate.

Sound extreme ? Sure. But without it any house dissdolution, coup, new election, new political party or anything else will have no effect beyond the short term. Given that the extreme solution needed has absolutely no chance of happening why do the PAD, the army or anyone else bother ? Nothing they do will change anything, unfortunately. Democracy will not function in Thailand until the economic shackles, and with them educational and intellectual constraints, are removed from the voters.

Sorry PeaceBlondie, I didn't manage to get even one in.

Edited by sibeymai, 2008-11-27 16:54:59.

[qualtrough]

A military coup is already underway, and has been for some time. Unlike the previous coup, this one is not being accomplished overtly through acts of commission, but rather through acts of omission. Namely, the military and the police are not fulfilling their their mandated responsibilities to protect the peace and follow the rule of law. The military and police leaders would prefer not to have to overtly overthrow the government, so they have been doing so by refusing to obey orders. If things continue to spin out of control they will be forced to take steps to finalize the coup, all the while claiming they are only doing so reluctantly. PAD are only the front men in this game, backed by powerful interests paying lip service to the principles of democracy and clean government, but in reality very opposed to those concepts as they are in direct conflict with the lucrative game they have been playing for many years. Thaksin and his cronies were/are indeed corrupt and have/had many faults, but PAD and its backers are not  White Knights coming to Thailand's rescue. I would advise PAD backers to remember that the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.

[Moonrakers]

Any development on these tank 'movements'

I find it a bit odd that tanks would be rolling towards BKK without the press jumping all over it.