Posted 2008-11-29 11:03:00
 Seneque, on 2008-11-29 03:43:53, said:
Yes Thailand is (will) losing a lot of money ... and so what ... why is it always about money (the actual world financial collapse is far more damaging)... could we look at this a little further and then perhaps realise that here comes an opportunity for a REAL revolution in Thailand ...
Is it the chance to reset this country and get it out of middle age social, political behaviors ...
Most Thais are sensible, reasonable, compassionate people ... they want to have a normal life under the governance of well thought policies adapted to their way of life. Thais are tired of endemic corruption and political racketeering.
Has the time come for a revolution ? it may be the solution, it will be painful but the reward might be beyond most of their expectations... During these times always emerge someone with a genuine ideology.
WHOOOA wake up boy even if you like this dream a lot. Do you really think that Sonthi & Co. are after a country with democratic values? They want back what was taken from them under the Thaksin regime. Simple as that. Bangkok elite does not like the butter on northern breads & pocktes of telecom tycoons as it makes their own bread taste kind of dry.
Posted 2008-11-29 12:11:07
Plus, on 2008-11-29 11:02:51, said: Thaddeus, on 2008-11-29 10:39:58, said: I live in a small town in lower Isaan and life here is carrying on pretty much as it always has done, every time there has been a 'crisis' in Bangkok my neighbours have just shrugged and got on with what they were doing. The closest I have seen to any vocal opposition so far was a friends wife watching the news on Television and she just said the Lao equivalent of "stupid c**nts" and her attention then returned to the food she was eating.
Actually Thaddeus, your little story supports the case that Isanese should be excluded from political process altogether.
Country's main airport closed - mai pen rai, lets get back to food.
They just don't give a f*ck, do they?
That's one more argument for "new politics" - let them select representatives from fellow rice farmers so they'd vote for something they have direct stake in, maybe that will make them interested in political process. Voting for a generic MP to do whatever he pleases up in Bangkok clearly doesn't work.
Would they be allowed to do that in a shift towards 'New Politics'? ...... I doubt that very much, so do they.
And we are straying off topic.
Posted 2008-11-29 12:22:41
What a joke!
One of the most important factors of a successful cell extraction is to make sure the receipiant feels as if he or she has been removed from a cell! This rule applies to all these types of situations.
There is absolutely no point in sending one or two, or even one or two hundred police who are most likely poorly equipted and trained to carry out a job of this scale.
Perhaps Thailand has forgotten the entire world is watching now......oooops there I go again, I forgot the thais don't give a dam_n about what mere 'farangs' might think....afterall what would a farang know?
Posted 2008-11-29 12:27:08
 I think somebody needs to make a phone call right now.....
Posted 2008-11-29 12:27:30
Jomtien, on 2008-11-29 10:16:07, said: I hope parties will come together soon and the PM will step down.
But to all the people here who not agree with the actions of the PAD,
if in the country you where born, family of a convicted criminal (on widespread corruption charges) is pushed by influential friends to become PM, what would you do? Just accept?
Don’t think so…… you would stand up, and protest those actions taken by your ‘government.’
Jomtien
But those protesting are thugs/criminals who have a bloody history. PAD are scum and supporters are bought. Not much different than what they are whinging about - pretty ironic. 
Posted 2008-11-29 12:36:12
plachon, on 2008-11-28 23:03:51, said: sabaijai, on 2008-11-28 21:46:56, said: There are several possible ends to the current conflict, each of which has been discussed, dissected and rejected here ad nauseum The Thais will come up with a solution -- if only temporary. Some say the only longterm solution is something along the lines of what the PAD are proposing, ie, half the national assembly appointed and half elected, like the UK had until relatively recently. Many Thais support the idea while most Western democracy advocates do not.
I hope you're right Sabaijai, but the weakness in your argument is that "The Thais" are now no longer one (if they ever were?), and numerous chances to "come up with a solution" have been squandered over the last few months to sort the gathering storm out amicably. As long as Mr T is lording it over his elites and another set of elites are protecting their interests, while the middle classes and politically engaged poor are not pleased with the uneasy status quo that existed up until August and the taking of Govt House, then finding a mutually acceptable "middle way" is going to be a darn hard act to muster.
The only thing that is clear is that past "democracy" versions have only been pale imitations of the real thing and that the No. 1 priority is the establishment of an independent judiciary, as the primary building block. I've noticed that there are more "People's Politics" advocates in Thailand than many other countries and just wonder how many of them are still supporting the PAD. That Ji Ungpakhorn has become so virulently anti-PAD, while somebody like Prawase Wasi is a firm supporter shows how split the nation is these days. I can imagine that a lot of old allies are so factionalised these days, that they might even have problems talking to each other in the future. This is a big concern for anyone who truly cares about Thailand's future. 
I agree. This is why the PAD is advocating a mixed assembly where all the factions have representation. It could be a miserable failure. But would it be any more miserable than the continued cycle of coup/constitution/election/protest/coup etc?
The irony is that the PAD are very much a link in the very cycle they hope to break. It's like the 'war to end all wars' or 'the coup to end all coups.'
Posted 2008-11-29 12:37:09
lol to thejoker
Posted 2008-11-29 12:48:17
Thaddeus, on 2008-11-29 12:11:07, said: Plus, on 2008-11-29 11:02:51, said: Thaddeus, on 2008-11-29 10:39:58, said: I live in a small town in lower Isaan and life here is carrying on pretty much as it always has done, every time there has been a 'crisis' in Bangkok my neighbours have just shrugged and got on with what they were doing. The closest I have seen to any vocal opposition so far was a friends wife watching the news on Television and she just said the Lao equivalent of "stupid c**nts" and her attention then returned to the food she was eating.
Actually Thaddeus, your little story supports the case that Isanese should be excluded from political process altogether.
Country's main airport closed - mai pen rai, lets get back to food.
They just don't give a f*ck, do they?
That's one more argument for "new politics" - let them select representatives from fellow rice farmers so they'd vote for something they have direct stake in, maybe that will make them interested in political process. Voting for a generic MP to do whatever he pleases up in Bangkok clearly doesn't work.
Would they be allowed to do that in a shift towards 'New Politics'? ...... I doubt that very much, so do they.
And we are straying off topic.
I think it's pretty reassuring actually. Please correct me if I'm wrong Thad, but it doesn't match what were lead to believe from the usual Thaksin/PPP propaganda machine about the humble north being up in arms, ready to don red shirts and kick the beep out of anything wearing a hint of yellow...? Instead people, like the rest of the country, are just getting on with it hoping for a peaceful outcome?
Posted 2008-11-29 13:07:17
Let me push this thread back on topic:
Chamlong also added that the People's Alliance for Democracy is willing to negotiate with the government but it must be done face to face and not via telephone.
This is a quote from within the hour....
Also I really do not understand why nobody is talking much about the Court moving up the corruption trial of the PPP to Tuesday Dec 2. The court is not allowing further testimony, stating it has enough evidence to reach a conclusion.
So the current government may be out in just a few more days.
As to all the people theorizing about why the police or military will not get their hands bloody....well if the person giving the orders may well be out of power in a few days, they who wants to stick their neck out.
Posted 2008-11-29 13:11:27
Insight, on 2008-11-29 12:48:17, said: I think it's pretty reassuring actually. Please correct me if I'm wrong Thad, but it doesn't match what were lead to believe from the usual Thaksin/PPP propaganda machine about the humble north being up in arms, ready to don red shirts and kick the beep out of anything wearing a hint of yellow...? Instead people, like the rest of the country, are just getting on with it hoping for a peaceful outcome?
Well, obviously, I can't speak for all of Isaan, but I am yet to see any pick-ups loaded with red shirts here, and I pray that that is representative of the whole area.
(but I haven't seen a yellow shirt since last Monday either)
Edited by Thaddeus, 2008-11-29 13:13:20.
Posted 2008-11-29 13:14:02
Thaddeus, on 2008-11-29 13:11:27, said: Insight, on 2008-11-29 12:48:17, said: I think it's pretty reassuring actually. Please correct me if I'm wrong Thad, but it doesn't match what were lead to believe from the usual Thaksin/PPP propaganda machine about the humble north being up in arms, ready to don red shirts and kick the beep out of anything wearing a hint of yellow...? Instead people, like the rest of the country, are just getting on with it hoping for a peaceful outcome?
Well, obviously, I can't speak for all of Isaan, but I am yet to see any pick-ups loaded with red shirts here, and I pray that that is representative of the whole area.
(but I haven't seen a yellow shirt since last Monday either)
Understood - Thanks Thaddeus.
Posted 2008-11-29 13:14:42
solent01, on 2008-11-29 07:24:47, said: Do we have to start in with labelling PAD as terrorists in yet another thred, they are nothing of the sort.
or insurgent or freedom fighter: a rebel
www.bigpedia.com/encyclopedia/List_of_euphemisms
One who utilizes the systematic use of violence and intimidation to achieve political objectives, while disguised as a civilian non-combatant. ...
www.aeroflight.co.uk/definitions.htm
One who engages in the unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence individually or with an organized group against people or property with ...
nallaseth.com/documents/GlossaryS-W.htm
often names for rebel, revolutionary, or folk heroes, especially by oppressive governments
www.startsurfing.com/encyclopedia/d/o/u/Doublespeak.html
The use of - or threatened use of - criminal violence against civilians or civilian infrastructure to achieve political ends through fear and intimidation, rather than direct confrontation. ...
www.readycolorado.com/glossary.php
IMHO, ever since the PAD took over Suvarnaphum, they became terrorists.
Posted 2008-11-29 13:23:01
Maybe those 'xenophobic" "nationalist" Thais are reluctant to kill other Thais, face to face. You have to be carefully taught to hate other people, and Thais may not have been carefully taught to kill each other.
Posted 2008-11-29 13:24:44
rbrick49, on 2008-11-29 08:00:03, said: my opinion is we who are not thai should mind our own buisness and let the thai people sort there problems out we have no right to interfere in their politics wether we se it as good or bad and if you are unsure of what might happen get out of the country just myopinion
Thank you for your opinion. Is your apinion interfering in Thai politics? I don't think so. I also don't think that the opinions of the many non-Thai posters are interfering in Thai Politics. They are just discussion of differing opinions.
Posted 2008-11-29 13:31:05
old wanderer, on 2008-11-29 13:07:17, said: Let me push this thread back on topic:
Chamlong also added that the People's Alliance for Democracy is willing to negotiate with the government but it must be done face to face and not via telephone.
This is a quote from within the hour....
Also I really do not understand why nobody is talking much about the Court moving up the corruption trial of the PPP to Tuesday Dec 2. The court is not allowing further testimony, stating it has enough evidence to reach a conclusion.
So the current government may be out in just a few more days.
As to all the people theorizing about why the police or military will not get their hands bloody....well if the person giving the orders may well be out of power in a few days, they who wants to stick their neck out.
A very good point and correct most are missing what could well be the end of this game, or at least the end of the first part.
Posted 2008-11-29 13:35:01
Thaddeus, on 2008-11-29 13:11:27, said: Insight, on 2008-11-29 12:48:17, said: I think it's pretty reassuring actually. Please correct me if I'm wrong Thad, but it doesn't match what were lead to believe from the usual Thaksin/PPP propaganda machine about the humble north being up in arms, ready to don red shirts and kick the beep out of anything wearing a hint of yellow...? Instead people, like the rest of the country, are just getting on with it hoping for a peaceful outcome?
Well, obviously, I can't speak for all of Isaan, but I am yet to see any pick-ups loaded with red shirts here, and I pray that that is representative of the whole area.
(but I haven't seen a yellow shirt since last Monday either)
If you would wish to see red shirts, a good spotting place would be Sanam Luang tomorrow: http://www.nationmul...newsid=30089756
Posted 2008-11-29 14:29:05
Plus, on 2008-11-29 11:02:51, said: Actually Thaddeus, your little story supports the case that Isanese should be excluded from political process altogether.
Only in the sad minds of bigots. The insulting and racist concept that any of the people of Thailand should be denied the right to vote
is disgusting & should be resisted at every opportunity !
Country's main airport closed - mai pen rai, lets get back to food. Distorted and pathetic.
They just don't give a f*ck, do they? No --- PAD have never given "a f*ck" for anyone or anything ---apart from PAD and their backers !!
By their actions PAD have demonstrated their contempt for all of Thailand--- its peoples and its laws! All you do is highlight the moral bankruptcy of PAD.
That's one more argument for "new politics" - let them select representatives from fellow rice farmers so they'd vote for something they have direct stake in, maybe that will make them interested in political process. Voting for a generic MP to do whatever he pleases up in Bangkok clearly doesn't work. Your racist & bigoted preaching does you no credit whatsoever.
Edited by tig28, 2008-11-29 14:30:19.
Posted 2008-11-29 18:38:19
Thaksin will be back....wanna bet me ?
Posted 2008-11-29 19:23:29
Nothing to negotiate. Leave em there, they are doing no harm to the north of the country. In fact Chiang Mai could benefit long term from this.
Billions of dollars lost for what?
If the Army support criminals like this, let em stay. It'll smoke the rich backers out of the PAD camp when their businesses are down the pan next month. They have a lot of money I hear in the PAD backers accounts, but with a world wide recession, Banks going tits up and a list of PAD backers about to be released, it is not and endless supply. These "Educated Thais" dont' have trees on which money grows.. unlike us handsome falangs!
Also surpise a lot of PAD supporters when cheques don't arrive, goods don't arrive, salaries go un paid.
Many of em are probably so caught up in the propaganda they havn't seen or heard the train of financial ruin coming up on them.
Choo choo. I forgot to mention... with Sondhi driving it and his "educated Thais" in the carriges cheering.
Edited by grandpops, 2008-11-29 19:25:47.
Posted 2008-11-29 19:53:01
Financially they shot them selves in the foot with the millitary coupe-- now they are finishing off the job.
These countrys are emerging nations because they never emerge.
Posted 2008-11-29 20:04:53
old wanderer, on 2008-11-29 13:07:17, said: Let me push this thread back on topic:
Chamlong also added that the People's Alliance for Democracy is willing to negotiate with the government but it must be done face to face and not via telephone.
This is a quote from within the hour....
Also I really do not understand why nobody is talking much about the Court moving up the corruption trial of the PPP to Tuesday Dec 2. The court is not allowing further testimony, stating it has enough evidence to reach a conclusion.
So the current government may be out in just a few more days.
As to all the people theorizing about why the police or military will not get their hands bloody....well if the person giving the orders may well be out of power in a few days, they who wants to stick their neck out.
The PAD taking over the airport is an act of terrorism and should me delt with by the army and police. What does an illegitamate government have to do with them allowing an act of terrorism to hold the country hostage? What does vote buying have to do with not stopping terrorists??
Posted 2008-11-29 20:30:42
bob6023, on 2008-11-29 18:38:19, said: Thaksin will be back....wanna bet me ?
I think he will. I previously didn't support it (and much less PAD), but now I do. Sure he stole money, but at least the country and it's development was on the right way in every direction. Sondi also steals money, but he could care less about the country and it's people, as we see now.
Posted 2008-11-29 23:13:41
Negociation is the only descent way out. Otherwise I"m afraid it will turn into a bloodshed.
Posted 2008-11-29 23:35:56
just in from Reuters.
By Ed Cropley
BANGKOK, Nov 29 (Reuters) - The assault by the People's Alliance for
Democracy (PAD) was swift and savage, a head-on charge by a convoy of vehicles
speeding down the wrong side of an expressway into scores of unarmed police.
As the terrified officers fled, some of them jumping through the open
door of accelerating police vans, wild-eyed young men burst from the PAD
vehicles, attacking with sling shots, fireworks, iron bars and wooden stakes.
The onslaught lasted no more than 15 seconds but left the five-lane
highway, the main access route to Bangkok's besieged Suvarnabhumi airport,
littered with broken glass and discarded police helmets and truncheons.
The police, who have orders not to retaliate against a movement backed by
Bangkok's establishment grandees, had virtually no warning.
"The yellow people are coming," one officer shouted, turning to run as
the PAD vanguard, a large sound-truck blaring out anti-government vitriol,
careered round the bend of the expressway exit.
Yellow is the "birthday colour" of King Bhumibol Adulyadej, in whose name
the PAD conducts an airport siege that has stranded thousands of visitors and
threatened billions of dollars of damage to the export- and tourism-dependent
economy.
It is not known what the revered monarch thinks of the protesters, who
also claim to be a peaceful street movement dedicated to the removal of a
corrupt but elected government.
The PAD's leaders say their "security guards" carry clubs and iron bars
only in self-defence.
After the police fled, the PAD stationed their own sentinels at the
expressway exit ramp, ensuring no repeat attempt by police to choke off their
main supply route.
At other, more minor approach roads round the besieged airport complex,
one of the world's largest, police are armed with automatic rifles. Nobody comes
or goes.
Inexplicably, at the main expressway entrance where PAD reinforcements
flow in constantly, police have neither the orders, inclination or fire-power to
stop a single vehicle.
"If the yellow shirt people come with no weapons, then they can pass,"
the commander on the ground, Police Colonel Wuttipong Petchgumneard, said only
moments before the PAD assault.
Nearby, his disconsolate men huddled against the concrete crash barriers,
counting down the minutes to the end of their eight-hour shift.
"We are just checking the numbers of the cars," Wuttipong said, holding
up a small digital camera, an almost comical gesture as several SUVs sped past
in the dark.
(Editing by Darren Schuettler and Michael Roddy) Keywords: THAILAND
PROTEST/ATTACK
(Bangkok newsroom, darren.schuettler@thomsonreuters.com; +66 2 637 5610)
Posted 2008-11-29 23:44:35
We are in California for the holidays. My flight is on the 3rd, and this is all the BBC has to say about Thailand.
Does anyone have another website that is more dedicated to Thailand?
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