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[OxfordWill]

the feelings of (false) superiority oozing from most of the posters so far in this thread makes me nauseous.

[Botho]

Same procedure all the time. There happen some bigger "accidents". All officials will start an investigation to prevent future things and what happens??? N O T H I N G. Talking, talking... nothing elsen then talking..

[Searat7]

Inspecting buildings is only one element... I see no mention of controlling the number of people allowed in clubs. I visit a Bangkok club designed for 400-500 yet they routinely cram in 3 times that number on weekends and probably 2000 on New Years Eve. If there was a fire there is no way a large crowd could get out of the building and the soi outside is very narrow. Where I come from the Building Inspector or city establishes an occupancy permit for a safe number of people and there are waiting lines outside clubs when they are "full".

[afarang]

lor, on 2009-01-06 19:03:16, said:

"Yeah, it may be too little too late, but at least it appears to be a step in the right direction.
Frankly, it's better then doing nothing isnt it? "

No it isn't! Because this is just talk. For a start how can a committee inspect buildings? The rules and inspection systems are already in place, but never enforced.

After this trajedy a few farang owned bars/gogo's/guesthouses may get fleeced for a few thousand baht but then that will be the end of it. Till the next trajedy.

Chris

And the next tragedy is just around the corner,it is just waiting to happen, and it will , and the authorities will react exactly the same,profess sorrow,set up a comittee ,money will change hands and every body will be happy, happy .They have all benefited. S.N.A.F.U.

[misterme]

I read that in Phuket they're going to clamp down on those that don't comply with the current fire regulations. Nothing about updating the 43 year old standards.

To say they're doing something is believing the illusion.

Quote

In order to prevent a similar fire tragedy from happening in Phuket, Police Commander Apirak Hongtong and Governor Preecha will establish a new committee tasked with ensuring that all nightclubs on the island conform with current fire safety laws established back in 1966.

[pjallittle]

markg, on 2009-01-06 03:49:01, said:

Guys - dont be too hard on Thailand.
Shutting the door after the horse has bolted? Ok, yep, sure. But to be honest, most of OUR western health and safety rules are in place under precisely those circumstances.
It unfortunately takes a terrible tragedy for people to learn from their mistakes, identify the problems and try to do something about it.
On the face of it, Thailand is doing something. Yeah, it may be too little too late, but at least it appears to be a step in the right direction.
Frankly, it's better then doing nothing isnt it?

I entirely agree, these same kinds of tragic accidents have occurred in nightclubs in the USA despite having ordinances, laws, experienced investigators and responsible personnel. Accidents happen and will obviously happen more often when the level of activity is heightened such as when celebrations are likely to to take place.

Just recently, a store employee was trampled to death by eager shoppers who, in their frenzy, knowingly ignored the prone body to get to their bargain goods.

Officialdom is responding appropriate to the circumstance, it isn't a case of too little too late. what should they do, stay silent?

[hardy1943]

markg, on 2009-01-06 18:49:01, said:

Guys - dont be too hard on Thailand.
Shutting the door after the horse has bolted? Ok, yep, sure. But to be honest, most of OUR western health and safety rules are in place under precisely those circumstances.
It unfortunately takes a terrible tragedy for people to learn from their mistakes, identify the problems and try to do something about it.
On the face of it, Thailand is doing something. Yeah, it may be too little too late, but at least it appears to be a step in the right direction.
Frankly, it's better then doing nothing isnt it?

I hope it is more then just talk and no action. Did you noticed the changed the electrical building code last year to 3
wires and 1 is actually a ground wire. Well it is a start.

[Veazer]

i think that one measure of how long one has lived in thailand is how many times they have heard the expression 'crackdown'... or possibly the true measure is their reaction to hearing it.

[gosmond]

Were you around when many lives were lost in a Pattaya hotel fire some years ago - fire exits locked etc etc. Same promises made then as now. I am sorry, but your optimism for a safer Thailand in thenear future is ill founded.

Edited by gosmond, 2009-01-06 19:25:20.

[supermof]

zakk9, on 2009-01-06 18:17:30, said:

I noticed this sentence in particular: "Mr. Pongsakti said if the committee finds.....".

And the price for not being found is......

Which was also my first thoughts!

[Zombienation]

Sprinkler systems are what is needed most of all in such large venues. I didn't see that on the list.

For condos/apartment blocks/hotels external fire escapes would be nice. Don't see many of those! If a fire started downstairs in my block, everyone would die.

[markg]

Veazer, on 2009-01-06 20:16:14, said:

i think that one measure of how long one has lived in thailand is how many times they have heard the expression 'crackdown'... or possibly the true measure is their reaction to hearing it.

Yes it's a fair point Veazer. We have to remember that Thailand is a 'developing' country.
It's developing y'see. Albeit slowly, but still developing.
When i first came to Phuket, just about no one wore motorcycle helmets. Now, a reasonable percentage wear them.

Drink-driving used to be rampant. Now they have breathalyzer machines and education campaigns.

Change wont happen overnight. It's a DEVELOPING country. It needs time, education and help.

Slating the BMA for just talking and doing nothing may be a bit early and a bit unfair.
Yes - we all know about corruption. Have a dodgy nightclub, pay the money and the MIB look the other way. We all know the clubs in our areas of Thailand that are somehow able to flout the 1am closing time............5, 6 or 7am is all possible if you know where to go.
Corruption needs addressing.
How?
Pay the cops a decent salary for starters!

If you are over about 40 years of age, you may remember what it was like in YOUR own country when you were a kid. We too had quite a lot of endemic corruption. Cops earned a pittance and so had to be on the take to make a decent living. England doubled the cops wages, and threatened them with COMPLETE loss of pension, plus a long stretch in solitary confinement if they were caught on the take. By and large, corruption died out. It certainly isnt endemic anymore.

Give them time. Give them encouragement to change things. Dont just stand by and say 'this wont work'
Tell em what the fcuk WILL work !

[Erich]

OxfordWill, on 2009-01-06 19:09:12, said:

the feelings of (false) superiority oozing from most of the posters so far in this thread makes me nauseous.

Seeing is believing, can the corruption be cut off ?

[Zombienation]

Searat7, on 2009-01-06 19:13:06, said:

Inspecting buildings is only one element... I see no mention of controlling the number of people allowed in clubs. I visit a Bangkok club designed for 400-500 yet they routinely cram in 3 times that number on weekends and probably 2000 on New Years Eve. If there was a fire there is no way a large crowd could get out of the building and the soi outside is very narrow. Where I come from the Building Inspector or city establishes an occupancy permit for a safe number of people and there are waiting lines outside clubs when they are "full".

Very true! I went to Curve along Ekamai, not far from Santika. It was so packed it was impossible to make it to the toilets. Had the whole crowd surge effect, where you get lifted off your feet and moved involuntarily. A huge seething mass of humanity, no room to dance and difficult to even lift a drink to your face without knocking someone. I left quickly. A fire there and the death toll would've been higher than Santika. The doormen just let everyone in, no count, no limit. Money, money, money!

[FRK]

"... will inspect security measures of the buildings of cinemas, hotels, department stores, apartments, markets and other structures which can affect lives and property of the public."

Nightclubs are not in the list.

[markg]

FRK, on 2009-01-06 20:34:57, said:

"... will inspect security measures of the buildings of cinemas, hotels, department stores, apartments, markets and other structures which can affect lives and property of the public."

Nightclubs are not in the list.

Wouldnt they be counted as 'other structures which can affect lives and property of the public' ?

[TJAN]

Thai Trade Service, on 2009-01-06 18:26:38, said:

First of all: when the premise is of one of the "ruling" class, no police will ever dare too enter.
Second: the Thais have to know to what they have to look. Probably a farang has to instruct them for a couple of years, showing again and again and .. again.. and ... again.
Last: even when anything is found... handfull of THB and eyes are closed

laten wij nu even ons mond houden Volendam ligt nog vers in ons geheugen,wij farangs denken dat we alles weten.
We dutchmen better keep our mouth shut some years ago we lost a lot of young people in a bar in Volendam when the christmas decorations got on fire.We from the western world think we no it all but I rather been in Thailand then in any other country,and I have been in a lot of places all around the world and not on holliday's.

[wrecker]

jfchandler, on 2009-01-06 18:17:15, said:

so... this means they're going to close the entire city????

Not even PAD could do that!!!

In the real world... ya... right.... special committee...

Yes not only closing the entire city, but we are also helped by the fact that ALL Bangkok Policemen and all people responsible in the fire department and all city councillors as well as most judges who have given temporary permits will be prosecuted and end up behind bars. Unless.... This is just another political ploy to please voters and mislead them and foreigners reporting about it.
The chap who came up with this plan must have really using too much prozac.

[thetravellingcat]

Inclined to believe them, they lost ALOT of face in this fiasco as foreign tourists and hi-so's alike were hurt and killed.

[jamora]

I think that using the excuse that Thailand is a "developing" country is kind of lame.
True that you have to learn from your mistakes, but the really wise once can learn from the mistakes of others. All of Scandinavia and a lot of Northern Europe learned their lesson in the 1998 disco fire in Goteborg that killed 63. We did not need a fire in each country to tell us something was really wrong, all we had to know is that clubs burn just as well in Denmark as they do in Sweden (or Thailand for that sake). I think Thailand sometimes need to be better at learning from the rest of the world, instead of being "a bit to" nationalistic and self proud. But I truly hope they will learn from this one! Else it will surely happen again!

Jakob

[gbswales]

meom, on 2009-01-06 11:37:32, said:

Plenty of Farang obviously didn't know what to look for when they decided to spent their time in Santika

Farang or not, the fact is that if you really looked at safety issues wherever you went, then you simply would never go anywhere. I dont incidentally think Thailand is alone in this I have seen apalling risks taken in clubs and other venues, even in the UK. The fact is that we are all pretty complacent and rarely bother to act or report anything. How many of us even bother to check the basic escape routes when visiting a club, theatre or restaurant? Most people dont even read the safety notices on the back of their hotel room door! What a sad beginning to 2009 for the relatives and friends of those who died.

[mrtoad]

I think it is to early to be judgemental. Yes, we all know that this tragedy could have been avoided if there was proper enforcement of laws, but at least they are trying to look at doing somethihng. It appears to many, that they are dammed if they do, and dammed if they dont.

If the tea money element for officials can b e clamped down on, then there might be some development.

[meelousee]

lor, on 2009-01-06 19:03:16, said:

"Yeah, it may be too little too late, but at least it appears to be a step in the right direction.
Frankly, it's better then doing nothing isnt it? "

No it isn't! Because this is just talk. For a start how can a committee inspect buildings? The rules and inspection systems are already in place, but never enforced.

After this tragedy a few farang owned bars/gogo's/guesthouses may get fleeced for a few thousand baht but then that will be the end of it. Till the next tragedy.

Chris

Yep I agree 100%
I wonder if anyone remembers the fire many years ago in Chang Mai, 20 German tourists fried. They setup rules and inspection system then, along with the fire in Pattaya again setup rules and inspection system.
So now they call for inspections that were never done in the first place.

[Africanteacher]

Good job! ('',)

Now wait till Chatuchak Market burns and lives are lost then they'll start installing fire equipment and emergency exits....

But good job, still there!

[Jai Dee]

TJAN, on 2009-01-06 20:41:08, said:

laten wij nu even ons mond houden Volendam ligt nog vers in ons geheugen,wij farangs denken dat we alles weten.
We dutchmen better keep our mouth shut some years ago...

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