Im steaing a bit out of topic but relating to my last post i had a long taxiride today, driver being familly father in his 40`s. Said he had 2 children, teenagers and i asked how much it cost for thai people to keep a child. He said 1-2000 bath per child and month but absolutely not over 3000. Considering that childsupport should go to such things as food n clothes for the child thats probably quite correct. 3000 bath being about half what my superorganized and expensive country claims from a parent in childsupport.
Also can share the knowledge that it seems to be possible to delay the signing of the birth certificate more than 15 days if there is a reason. Dont know how that affects things in terms of getting legitimate.
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How To Gain Parental Rights As A Father When Not Marrieda rough guide
Started by Mario2008, 2009-01-13 20:47
#52
Senior Member Posted 2009-10-02 11:39:00
Congratulations. Take with you the birth cetificate from the hospital, that confirms the birth. Also take with you the original household book to register the child on that. http://www.dopa.go.t...servi/birth.htm Just to follow up, I eventually convinced the hospital medical records department what I wanted to do and they allowed me to go with them to the local Amphur and signed for his birth certificate myself with their help. Now have his birth certificate with my name shown twice once to say I am the father and second that I registered the birth. Martin #53
Advanced Member Posted 2009-10-02 13:09:39
Congratulations. Take with you the birth cetificate from the hospital, that confirms the birth. Also take with you the original household book to register the child on that. http://www.dopa.go.t...servi/birth.htm Just to follow up, I eventually convinced the hospital medical records department what I wanted to do and they allowed me to go with them to the local Amphur and signed for his birth certificate myself with their help. Now have his birth certificate with my name shown twice once to say I am the father and second that I registered the birth. Martin Thats great news and very good for u and the child! #54
Platinum Member Posted 2009-10-04 15:07:54
My child was born on 17 September. I am not married. The hospital put my name on all the paperwork as the father. The baby's mother and I both went to the office where births are registered (not the Amphur) along with the papers that the hospital gave us. I was asked for a copy of my passport and the mother was asked for a copy of her ID card and tabien baan. A birth certificate was issued with my name (translated to Thai) as the father. We were both present.
Where do I stand with respect to the original issue raised in this thread? Thanks in advance. #55
Superb Member Posted 2009-10-04 15:53:03
My child was born on 17 September. I am not married. The hospital put my name on all the paperwork as the father. The baby's mother and I both went to the office where births are registered (not the Amphur) along with the papers that the hospital gave us. I was asked for a copy of my passport and the mother was asked for a copy of her ID card and tabien baan. A birth certificate was issued with my name (translated to Thai) as the father. We were both present. Where do I stand with respect to the original issue raised in this thread? Thanks in advance. Look at the birth certificate: Your name should be on there twice: - as the father - as the person registering the birth If the person listed as registering the birth is not the same as the father, you didn't legitimise the child. #56
Platinum Member Posted 2009-10-04 16:19:02
My child was born on 17 September. I am not married. The hospital put my name on all the paperwork as the father. The baby's mother and I both went to the office where births are registered (not the Amphur) along with the papers that the hospital gave us. I was asked for a copy of my passport and the mother was asked for a copy of her ID card and tabien baan. A birth certificate was issued with my name (translated to Thai) as the father. We were both present. Where do I stand with respect to the original issue raised in this thread? Thanks in advance. Look at the birth certificate: Your name should be on there twice: - as the father - as the person registering the birth If the person listed as registering the birth is not the same as the father, you didn't legitimise the child. #57
Advanced Member Posted 2009-10-04 21:32:01
[/quote]
I'm not sure about a good lawyer in Bangkok, some embassies list lawyers who you might approch. [/quote] I'd try Dejudom - they were very helpful to me in an unrelated situation. If they can't help you then I'm sure they'll refer you to someone who can. P.S. Mods pls delete post if contravenes rules, sorry and thanks. #58
Superb Member Posted 2009-10-04 21:36:47
Thanks for the quick response Mario. I am listed as the father. As far as I can tell, the mother is listed as the one registering the birth. (She signed it.) Unfortunately you didn't leaglise the child, so now your only option is to petition the court to be recognised as the father. if the motehr doesn't contest that shouldn't be hard. if you plan to marry the mother in the near future, that would automatically legitimise the child under Thai law. #59
Advanced Member Posted 2009-10-04 22:09:07
Thanks for the quick response Mario. I am listed as the father. As far as I can tell, the mother is listed as the one registering the birth. (She signed it.) Unfortunately you didn't leaglise the child, so now your only option is to petition the court to be recognised as the father. if the motehr doesn't contest that shouldn't be hard. if you plan to marry the mother in the near future, that would automatically legitimise the child under Thai law. Does these circumstances mean he has to wait untill the child is about 7 years or he can petition the court earlier? #60
Platinum Member Posted 2009-10-05 08:03:24
Thanks for the quick response Mario. I am listed as the father. As far as I can tell, the mother is listed as the one registering the birth. (She signed it.) Unfortunately you didn't leaglise the child, so now your only option is to petition the court to be recognised as the father. if the motehr doesn't contest that shouldn't be hard. if you plan to marry the mother in the near future, that would automatically legitimise the child under Thai law. I never thought to research on TV for something as simple as getting his birth certificate. Live and learn... #61
Advanced Member Posted 2009-10-06 10:02:08
Let me get this strait;
If the father legalise the child by making a petition to the court, will the father then have shared custody of the child? -If yes, does that mean that the father and mother have 50/50 custody? If not then what does it take to get that equally shared custody? What documents are needed? #62
Superb Member Posted 2009-10-07 19:28:59
Let me get this strait; If the father legalise the child by making a petition to the court, will the father then have shared custody of the child? -If yes, does that mean that the father and mother have 50/50 custody? If not then what does it take to get that equally shared custody? What documents are needed? He will be the legal father of the child. But the mother can contest that the father will also get custody of the child, together with her. It is not automatically granted. #63
Super Member Posted 2009-10-19 18:19:30
Very interesting thread. I must question the correctness of one or two things I read though.
First my own information: I am not married and have a 5 year-old daughter born at Lat Prao hospital and of course, they were kind enough to do the registration for me too. Now that doesn't matter all that much for me because since I am Swedish, the embassy require me to get a certificate of fathership (bai rapp long bott) in order to make my daughter a Swedish citizen anyway. The Swedish Embassy is adamant that the certificate of fathership (bai rapp long boot) must be issued by juvenile court (saan yawachonn lae krabkroa). I went to Amphor in Muang Loei with the mother and easily got the bai rapp long bott there in 2-3 hours for a hundred bath or so, without going to court. I went all the way to the district Attorney (ajjagarn) in Loei to try to go to court, nice guy by the way, and he told me that he would be happy to allow my case to go to court for the reason of clarifying that there is no "higher document" to prove that I am the father of my daughter in Thailand and to prove the validity of the documents I showed him, but not to get a certificate of fathership, because that I already had  Over to the Question: I read in this thread that it is not possible to legitimize your child before she is 7 years old. I understand this as not being correct, or at least not followed in many cases. The district attorney was very clear to me that the documents I got proved that I was the father of my daughter according to Thai law. My Daughter was not even 3 years old when I did it. Yes, the mother signed but no one asked my daughter, they all just played with her There are many Swedes in Thailand, most of us get the bai rapp long bott (certificate of fathership) long before the child is 7 years old (by taking it to juvenile court), hence, it should be very possible according to Thai law to get the certificate of fathership before the child is 7 years old Comment? May I suggest that you "translate" the document names to English when you post, petition the court according to section 15480… I think that means to take the case to saan yawachonn lae krabkroa (juvenile court) and get bai rapp long bott (certificate of fathership). Is this correct? Some info to add Petitioning the court according to section 15480 takes 3 months or so in Bangkok, always an option. I have a Thai-Thai couple friend going through this right now. It is actually fairly common, as many Thai's don't know the law too, and don't worry until it already has become a problem. The words that the lawyer uses is funny to listen too... "kaa do lae bott" (ask to take care of child). You go to court to ask to take care of your own child Oupps I tried to fly abroad with my daughter but without mummy (she had already gone through in another queue) and customs required my daughters birth certificate even though I showed them her Thai passport. I managed to clear this by being polite and smile and speak in quick and good Thai, arguing that I would never have been able to get the passport without the birth certificate in the first place. I feeling is that I would not have been allowed to take my Thai daughter out had I not been able to say that the mother has already gone through in the queue for Thai's Mikey Edited by MikeyIdea, 2009-10-19 18:24:35. #64
Super Member Posted 2009-10-19 19:31:55
May I ask for another clarification - I am sure that I one day will need it... It's going to happen...
OK, I am legally the father of my daughter, we are most likely going to get shared custody 50-50 when we brake up. 1) Since we both are legal parents, isn't it so that while we both in practice can change Tabien Baan of the child, none of us have the right to do so without the other parents'consent? What if the mother goes and change without the father knowing? Can the father sue? As sad as it is but in custody cases, it is not uncommon that a strategy to use could be to make the other side look bad, from a legal standpoint... 2) Suppose that Tabien Baan is in Bangkok but the mother goes and changes it to her home village up-country without the fathers consent. Where would the father sue? I would assume where the crime took place which is in Bangkok but is this correct? Or would the father have to sue at new address? 3) Mario writes: There is also no law against parental abduction in Thailand. In case of trouble, the only way to go around it is to file for sole custody. I assume the most likely case, the one that could happen to me in the future...: Both parents are legally recognized and have shared custody 50-50. The mother has no right to take the child up-country but she does so anyway. OK, the father can sue of course but sue for what? If parental abduction does not exist, then there is no kidnapping case. The father's only option is to sue for sole custody you write but on what grounds would he sue? Not being allowed to be with his child? 4) What about paying for the lawyers costs in cases like these? Who would have to pay the bill in the examples above? Can a father at least expect to get 50% of the bills awarded? 5) If there is such a thing as "court decided that since mummy broke the law by say e.g. taking child up-country without fathers consent, she should pay half of the lawyers costs for daddy", and here it comes - She doesn't pay. Now, can Daddy use the fact that mummy doesn't pay and sue? Can daddy use the fact that mummy is in debt to gain advantage and perhaps get more than 50% custody? Mikey Edited by MikeyIdea, 2009-10-19 19:34:02. #65
Superb Member Posted 2009-10-20 19:59:32
I read in this thread that it is not possible to legitimize your child before she is 7 years old. I understand this as not being correct, or at least not followed in many cases. The district attorney was very clear to me that the documents I got proved that I was the father of my daughter according to Thai law. My Daughter was not even 3 years old when I did it. Yes, the mother signed but no one asked my daughter, they all just played with her There are many Swedes in Thailand, most of us get the bai rapp long bott (certificate of fathership) long before the child is 7 years old (by taking it to juvenile court), hence, it should be very possible according to Thai law to get the certificate of fathership before the child is 7 years old Comment? Mikey There are three ways of legitimising a child: 1. at birth 2. by declaration at the amphur 3. by petitioning the court. Only when you want to make a declaration of the fathership at the amphur does the child need to be 7 years or older, as also the child needs t make a statement about aho his/her father is. #66
Senior Member Posted 2009-10-20 20:06:48
There are three ways of legitimising a child: 1. at birth 2. by declaration at the amphur 3. by petitioning the court. Only when you want to make a declaration of the fathership at the amphur does the child need to be 7 years or older, as also the child needs t make a statement about aho his/her father is. Seems immigration in Bangkok don't view me registering the birth of my son myself as legitimising his birth. They said I couldn't get an annual extension to my Non-Imm O based on having a Thai son with his birth certificate and told us to go to the amphur and court to get him legitimised. That's buggered my plans if can't do that until he's 7 years old. They're suggestion, get married, if that's the case then sod 'em we're moving out of Thailand as soon as plans are made. Why should we be forced to get married just for this? Martin #67
Superb Member Posted 2009-10-20 20:07:28
May I ask for another clarification - I am sure that I one day will need it... It's going to happen... OK, I am legally the father of my daughter, we are most likely going to get shared custody 50-50 when we brake up. 1) Since we both are legal parents, isn't it so that while we both in practice can change Tabien Baan of the child, none of us have the right to do so without the other parents'consent? What if the mother goes and change without the father knowing? Can the father sue? As sad as it is but in custody cases, it is not uncommon that a strategy to use could be to make the other side look bad, from a legal standpoint... 2) Suppose that Tabien Baan is in Bangkok but the mother goes and changes it to her home village up-country without the fathers consent. Where would the father sue? I would assume where the crime took place which is in Bangkok but is this correct? Or would the father have to sue at new address? 3) Mario writes: There is also no law against parental abduction in Thailand. In case of trouble, the only way to go around it is to file for sole custody. I assume the most likely case, the one that could happen to me in the future...: Both parents are legally recognized and have shared custody 50-50. The mother has no right to take the child up-country but she does so anyway. OK, the father can sue of course but sue for what? If parental abduction does not exist, then there is no kidnapping case. The father's only option is to sue for sole custody you write but on what grounds would he sue? Not being allowed to be with his child? 4) What about paying for the lawyers costs in cases like these? Who would have to pay the bill in the examples above? Can a father at least expect to get 50% of the bills awarded? 5) If there is such a thing as "court decided that since mummy broke the law by say e.g. taking child up-country without fathers consent, she should pay half of the lawyers costs for daddy", and here it comes - She doesn't pay. Now, can Daddy use the fact that mummy doesn't pay and sue? Can daddy use the fact that mummy is in debt to gain advantage and perhaps get more than 50% custody? Mikey 1 and 2 you both can change it, I don't think you can sue the mother in this case. But better ask a lawyer. 3. You would sue on the base that the mother is unfit as guardian of the child, or that the relationship between both parents is such that it is not in the childs interest that the joint custody continues. The welbeing of the child will always be the central issue. 4 and 5 ask a lawyer. The fact that the mother is in debt is not an issue, only the well being of the child. So the debt would have to touch the wel being of the child. #68
Super Member Posted 2009-10-21 09:58:11
Thankyou very much for the answers Mario
Seems immigration in Bangkok don't view me registering the birth of my son myself as legitimising his birth. They said I couldn't get an annual extension to my Non-Imm O based on having a Thai son with his birth certificate and told us to go to the amphur and court to get him legitimised. That's buggered my plans if can't do that until he's 7 years old. They're suggestion, get married, if that's the case then sod 'em we're moving out of Thailand as soon as plans are made. Why should we be forced to get married just for this? Martin Your problems with immigration I think is the old saga, if they don't know the law then it doesn't count. They don't know that as you as father registering the birth, the child is already legimised. Marrio, you are right about that Amphor must ask the child too, I remember now. The officer in Loei did talk about asking the (not even 3 year old) child and mummy told her that Idea (that's my daughters name) is a big daddy's girl. That was enough. The 7 years can be flexible up-country Mikey Edited by MikeyIdea, 2009-10-21 10:27:26. #69
Super Member Posted 2009-10-21 10:04:45
Mario, the reason why I ask what options I have if the mother change tabien baan to up-country is that I am locked working in Bangkok and also that I believe I would stand a better chance in a Bangkok juvenile court than in Loei
I assume that I must use juvenile court where the child is registered according to tabien baan when I register the complaint, is this correct? Thanks Mikey Edited by MikeyIdea, 2009-10-21 10:06:51. #70
Superb Member Posted 2009-10-21 10:15:29
There are three ways of legitimising a child: 1. at birth 2. by declaration at the amphur 3. by petitioning the court. Only when you want to make a declaration of the fathership at the amphur does the child need to be 7 years or older, as also the child needs t make a statement about aho his/her father is. Seems immigration in Bangkok don't view me registering the birth of my son myself as legitimising his birth. They said I couldn't get an annual extension to my Non-Imm O based on having a Thai son with his birth certificate and told us to go to the amphur and court to get him legitimised. That's buggered my plans if can't do that until he's 7 years old. They're suggestion, get married, if that's the case then sod 'em we're moving out of Thailand as soon as plans are made. Why should we be forced to get married just for this? Martin If I'm not mistaken, you can get a declaration/form from the amphur that states who the parents of the child are and who has custody over the child. Otherwise petition the court to legitimise the child. I'm not sure if immigration wants you to have sole custody over the child. It is a new regulation and it is still a bit unclear how they enforce this rule. #71
Superb Member Posted 2009-10-21 10:21:08
Mario, the reason why I ask what options I have if the mother change tabien baan to up-country is that I am locked working in Bangkok and also that I believe I would stand a better chance in a Bangkok juvenile court than in Loei I assume that I must use juvenile court where the child is registered according to tabien baan when I register the complaint, is this correct? Thanks Mikey I don't know about the court procedures and where you should file. You will have to aks a lawyer about this, who can also inform you if you can register a complaint. Take into consideration that you will need to have a tabien baan on which to register the child. You might win, but still get nothing if you can't register the child anywhere in BKK. #72
Advanced Member Posted 2009-10-21 18:32:13
Is it true that Thai law says the child belongs to the father?
#73
Superb Member Posted 2009-10-22 10:11:34
No. A child belongs to his/her parents and both have equal rights. When it comes to a divorce one of the parents can obtain sole custody. That is done by mutual consent or decided by the court. A judge takes the interest of the child at heart and makes a decision based on that.
#74
Super Member Posted 2009-10-22 10:33:09
Is it true that Thai law says the child belongs to the father? It is interesting to read how (well) Thai law tries to protect the child. But it is contradictory to western views and defies western common sense Check http://www.thailawonline.com/images/thaici...l%20code%20.pdf on page 15. Nowhere does it state anything about who is the property of who, only the legal child – father status Section 1536 – Child born from parents married according to the law or within 310 days of marriage being voided is the legitimate child of the husband Section 1537 – In case the mother divorces and marries again within 310 days, then the child is the legitimate child of the NEW husband. There are 2 speeds at which babies grow inside tummies in Thailand But this really makes sense. Thai law tries to protect the child. The law is practically based, it does not care about the fathers birth right, it tries to protect the child. If the marriage has gone sour and the mother and the father divorces before the child is born, AND there is another guy who marries the (pregnant) mother, then isn't it more likely that the child being the legitimate child of the new husband would be better for the child? Imagine the old husband taking an active role in bringing up the child when the mother has a new husband… Mikey Edited by MikeyIdea, 2009-10-22 10:43:08. #75
Super Member Posted 2009-10-22 11:16:06
Does anyone have a link to the Thai original of "Book 5 - Family" giving the Thai family law? The Thai original of this one http://www.thailawonline.com/images/thaici...l%20code%20.pdf
Thanks Mikey |
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