Purchase Of Por Bor Tor 5 Land?
13 replies to this topic
Posted 2009-01-14 23:37:28
There is a simple answer and the simple answer is No.
The complex answer is yes, sort of... maybe.
You can always purchase the land, but as a foreigner you can't own the land.
The following comes from This Thread, member keg's post #15.
"Next is Por Bor Tor 5 - This land is either farm or forest land not under ownership or control of the land office. This land is administered by a local village leader who oversees possession rights and boundaries. Sales are carried out under the supervision of this village leader and recorded locally only. This land can't be built upon."
I would be surprized if any local village leader would allow a Thai-registered company to purchase this type of land.
Posted 2009-01-15 01:52:27
TIT but...it is essentially squatted land.
It can't be legally sold or transferred.
Posted 2009-01-15 08:58:14
Thanks for the replies all. The plot in question is in Klong Son on Koh Chang. Practically all the land there is Por Bor Tor 5. It is bought and sold all the time. The particular parcel in question (286 sq wah/1144 sq mtrs) already has been surveyed and the survey plugs put in the ground defining the boundaries.
The Land Office guys from Laem Ngop were surveying all over Klong Son yesterday and said the PBT5 land was scheduled for upgrading to Nor Sor Sam 1 and Chanote in 18 months.
Farangs and Thais alike are presently building houses adjacent to this property on the same-titled land.
What do you guys think about this situation?
Posted 2009-01-15 10:58:35
I think that eventually there will be farangs crying about how the Thais cheated them out of their money even though they knew in advance that they couldn't own the land. I wouldn't touch that land unless I could afford to walk away with absolutely nothing.
Posted 2009-01-15 10:59:05
When you say that Farangs are building houses adjacent to this property, do you know what method these Farang used to gain rights to build on the land? Are they leasing the land? Do they have a Thai partner (e.g. spouse) that holds title to the land? Did they set up a Thai company?
Perhaps the local land office is actually registering these types of land titles where you are. My wife has some land with another strange land title that is supposed to be converted to Chanote in the not too distant future. Her land is in a very rural province (Phatthalung) so I know the local land office hasn't registered these titles yet.
Posted 2009-01-15 11:08:03
I was just out on a remote island where the same thing is going on..
The land titles there are all like this, and Thais and farangs alike are all building low value resorts and businesses.. This is done with the total compliance and registration of the Poo Yai Baan and under a local level administration and record.. This administration is also overseen by the islands one policeman who stands there in his grubby T Shirt and watches people smoking joints at breakfast.
Basically if you operate at the fringes then these are the risks you take, given the value of these land plots for downtown (pier-side) and beachfront land on the stunning west coast you have to understand its a crap shoot.. Maybe it will work out maybe it wont.. I think it will all depend on connections and standing in the island communities, but for less money than I rent my house he can gamble on being in at the ground floor of a islands birth into the tourist economy.. Its not something for life savings but for a couple hundred k baht it has an appeal.
I would in no way think of a farang control, name on title, or company route.. This is the buy it and hope (give it to the wife) category of land titles. Forget protecting your investment.
Posted 2009-01-15 11:10:55
Your on the right track donx. All land transactions of this type are handled by the local Orbortor. Koh Chang is a rather unique situation. The usual hard and fast rules, ie "cannot build, sell, purchase on anything less than Nor Sor Sam & Chanote", don't seem to apply there.
I'll make some inquiries and learn what method the plots were purchased by. I can't see how all these transactions can be bogus and a great conspiratorial plot by the sellers...
LOS Sounds exactly like KC. It ain't Pattaya gentlemen. Things are done differently (and still legally) in the boonies...
May I ask what island you speak of?
Edited by kbvicar, 2009-01-15 11:18:11.
Posted 2009-01-15 12:29:15
I see now why your land was so cheap - PBT5, not NS3 as you thought. If the owner is telling you it will be upgraded soon they are bullshitting you. Simple as that.
PBT5 on Koh Chang isn't going to get upgraded in the next 5-10 years, if ever. The surveyors confirmed that yesterday when we met them In Klong Son, as did the boss of the Land Dept when we were then in November. Sor Kor 1 land is different, that will be upgraded to Chanote on Koh Chang within the next 18 months.
To get PBT5 upgraded you need all of Koh Chang to be resurveyed, something that isn't scheduled to happen as the last full survey was only a few years ago in 2002, when all the current Chanotes were issued.
( Just get your wife to call the Land Office in Laem Ngop and they will confirm all of the above in 2 minutes on the phone.)
The lack of an upgrade in the near future was why your developer neighbours stopped selling their plots in the valley and offered buyers their money back.
Posted 2009-01-15 14:29:45
Changian the particular plot in question is Sor Kor 1, not PBT5. I was asking about PBT5 for my own information because of all the conflicting reports I've heard.
I had a brain fart when I said PBT5 was scheduled for upgrading --I meant SK1, SPK and NSSK, sorry for the confusion.
Edited by kbvicar, 2009-01-15 14:36:29.
Posted 2009-01-15 15:47:55
Still worth calling the Land Office. See what they say regarding will the Chanote only be issued to the original holder of the SK1 land or their dependent as, technically, SK1 can't be sold, only inherited by family members.
So how would it work if you bought it when it came to the upgrade? Would/Could the 'sale' be declared invalid by the Land Office? As you ( i.e. your wife), according to the letter of the law, couldn't have bought it legally.
PBT5 has to be in a Thai name. Cant own it in a company name or do any form of long registered lease. The only documentation is a slip of paper that's a receipt for the land tax you have to pay annually. This has the owner's, the person who pays the tax on the land, name on it. But the receipt doesnt even say where the land is or give any hint of dimensions, boundaries etc. When you buy it need to get the Pu Yai or Kamnan to witness the sale and say they agree that the seller isnt trying to sell a bit of the neighbours land without his knowledge.
Edited by Changian, 2009-01-15 15:56:23.
Posted 2009-01-15 18:38:02
Changian I've sent you a PM. Again, the question about PBT5 land was to gather opinions to satisfy my curiosity.
Do you mean SRV now has to refund the buyers' money?
Posted 2009-01-15 21:25:00
No one listens Gary A TILL it is to late. Koh Chang is a time bomb waiting to happen where land is concerned.
Posted 2009-01-16 08:05:51
They offered to refund money to people who bought in the valley a few months ago, which was good of them. (Although the two people I know who bought there are happy to keep their plots for now though, rather than sell them back.) Note that the main SRV development is totally unaffected by this.