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[Plus]

Full screen of irrelevant material, cross referencing to unrelated threads, outrage over Hitler remarks, incomprehensible input on the actual issue, your post has it all.

Only the sense is missing, but that's typical of Internet groupies, they are here to make noise and contribute kilobytes.

>>>

If not for 500 dead this story would have never ever made it to any Western publication, and now it turns out it was all lies. Everyone had great fun at Thailand's expense, now over to Australian bush fires.

[Steve2UK]

Plus, on 2009-02-12 15:05:21, said:

here to make noise and contribute kilobytes.

>>>

If not for 500 dead this story would have never ever made it to any Western publication, and now it turns out it was all lies. Everyone had great fun at Thailand's expense, now over to Australian bush fires.

- says the member who seems compelled to splatter 5+ posts per day over any topic he can.......... The clinical term for imputing to others what is true about yourself is "projection". Google it.

No evidence to back up the unfounded smears and gross distortions - I'll take that as a withdrawal. Your kind of bickerfest holds zero interest for me on what should be an adult forum. I'll have no more of it  - and leave others to reach their own conclusions.

>>>

There aren't and haven't been "500 dead" - your "straw man" fixation yet again. "500 dead" is not the story nor is the real story (as covered in detail from the beginning of this thread) "all lies". Others know that - you (IMO) never will.

Bye.

Edited by Steve2UK, 2009-02-12 15:56:24.

[Scott]

I was just watching CNN.  The Thai PM was on and admitted that they had towed Rohingyas out to sea and set them adrift.

[samgrowth]

Scott, on 2009-02-12 20:39:25, said:

I was just watching CNN. The Thai PM was on and admitted that they had towed Rohingyas out to sea and set them adrift.

http://edition.cnn.c...sion/index.html

If you want to read about it.

[sriracha john]

It's refreshing to see a government admit its mistakes and be willing to rectify a situation as well as hold those responsible people accountable.

That certainly didn't happen with the previous administrations who prided themselves on subterfuge, irresponsibility, and dishonesty.

Edited by sriracha john, 2009-02-13 05:48:41.

[Steve2UK]

sriracha john, on 2009-02-13 05:47:57, said:

It's refreshing to see a government admit its mistakes and be willing to rectify a situation as well as hold those responsible people accountable.

Agreed. Better still when/if the words are actually translated into appropriate actions. We'll see.

[samgrowth]

Talk talk talk . . . . .  and no action lah . . . .  lol

[blaze]

samgrowth, on 2009-02-14 02:47:20, said:

Talk talk talk . . . . .  and no action lah . . . .  lol

THere may be some action coming: The Nation's scathing report on ISOC- (see General Topics- apparantly the report wasn't 'newsworthy' enough to warrant a place in News Clippings)- may indicate that Abhisit is preparting to clip its wings- and the Nation is doing the preparatory PR work by exposing ISOC for the shadowy anachronism that it is.

[my friend I]

saneroad, on 2009-01-17 08:49:38, said:

On the Bangkok Post this morning...
http://www.bangkokpo...gya-accusations

Navy chief rejects Rohingya accusations

The navy has rejected foreign media reports that sailors beat about 100 Rohingya asylum seekers and set them adrift in a simple boat in the Andaman sea. Navy chief Khamthon Phumhiran dismissed a report on the BBC news service in which the Rohingyas accused the navy of towing them out to sea in boats with no engines and no food.

The report said the comments came from survivors who managed to drift to Indonesia and the Andaman islands.

On Thursday, the South China Morning Post ran a front-page story saying dozens of refugees were detained and beaten on an Andaman island in full view of foreign holidaymakers. It was unclear when the incident took place.

Adm Khamthon refused to accept the reports. He insisted the minority Burmese Rohingyas were not set adrift.

Under no circumstances, he stressed, would the navy do anything so inhumane. Even in a state of war and enemy fighters were seen drifting in the sea, the navy would rescue them in keeping with humanitarian principles.

A picture on the BBC website shows scores of Rohingyas lying face down on a beach on Koh Sai Daeng island off Ranong province.

Adm Khamthon said the picture gave the wrong impression. The asylum seekers were made to lie down on the sand as a precaution to prevent them causing harm to security personnel who were outnumbered. There were about 20 navy personnel at the scene.

He said the asylum seekers were later given shelter, food and water. ''But these pictures obviously did not come up in the media coverage,'' he said.

Nice work Admiral.

[Samuian]

Plus, on 2009-02-12 15:05:21, said:

Full screen of irrelevant material, cross referencing to unrelated threads, outrage over Hitler remarks, incomprehensible input on the actual issue, your post has it all.

Only the sense is missing, but that's typical of Internet groupies, they are here to make noise and contribute kilobytes.

>>>

If not for 500 dead this story would have never ever made it to any Western publication, and now it turns out it was all lies. Everyone had great fun at Thailand's expense, now over to Australian bush fires.

Armchair human rights warriors, their pencil is their sword!

I am always stunned how hastily and willingly people joined the prejudicial crowd and howled: "Justice, Justice, Justice!"

On a story and a couple if pictures, without any hard evidence!

[Scott]

When gov'ts are busy covering up information, denying access to the people involved, then the outcome is going to be some erroneous stories.  

And now we also know that the gov't had good reasons to be covering things up.

[Plus]

Quote

Armchair human rights warriors, their pencil is their sword!

Yes, except these days their sword is a keyboard.

How do they feel about torturing their own mouse?

I think the collection of headlines from the first pages of this thread should be reposted here:

Thais 'leave boat people to die'

Thailand's deadly treatment of migrants

Hundreds dead, set adrift by Thais

Thailand Is Accused of Rejecting Migrants
"....At least 300 people are reported to be missing at sea."

Abandoned at Sea: The Sad Plight of the Rohingya
"...More than 300 people who were with Muzaffar are missing; they are all believed to be dead." at the end of the second paragraph.

That's how Western media covered the subject, I think I omitted only one Australian story that didn't have "hundreds dead" in it.

I'll remember it for the next time people refer to BBC as a source of correct and truthful information and analysis.

[Plus]

Quote

When gov'ts are busy covering up information, denying access to the people involved, then the outcome is going to be some erroneous stories.

No excuse. BBC and other HAD access to the victims, they interviewed them in India and Indonesia, they still got it wrong.

They can't let the truth interfere with all the gore and outrage of the lies.

[HorseDoctor]

http://nationmultime...cs_30095697.php

                
After being in a state of denial for weeks, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has finally admitted to international media that Thai authorities pushed Rohingya boat people back out to sea and abandoned them.
                                                                          In an exclusive interview with CNN on Thursday, Abhisit said there was reason to believe some incidents had occurred.

"It's not exactly clear whose handiwork it is," he said. "All the authorities say it's not their policy, though I have reason to believe some instances did happen, but if I can find evidence as to who exactly did this, I will certainly bring them to account."

.....The Navy arrested nearly 1,000 Rohingyaboat people in December and January. They were shifted to the strategic military island of Koh Sai Daeng before being towed back out to sea and abandoned...."


"Though, ..but IF I CAN FIND evidence "    

Is this the new ThaiSpeak?

Edited by HorseDoctor, 2009-02-14 11:50:04.

[Samuian]

HorseDoctor  below the answer given by "plus"!

It's about blaming WRONGLY a whole country and it's government for something that never happened!

And now the PM is blamed for something he has become aware of when this "scandal" blew in his face!

Plus, on 2009-02-14 11:05:14, said:

Thais 'leave boat people to die'

Thailand's deadly treatment of migrants

Hundreds dead, set adrift by Thais

Thailand Is Accused of Rejecting Migrants
"....At least 300 people are reported to be missing at sea."

Abandoned at Sea: The Sad Plight of the Rohingya
"...More than 300 people who were with Muzaffar are missing; they are all believed to be dead." at the end of the second paragraph.

That's how Western media covered the subject, I think I omitted only one Australian story that didn't have "hundreds dead" in it.

I'll remember it for the next time people refer to BBC as a source of correct and truthful information and analysis.

HorseDoctor, on 2009-02-14 11:44:58, said:

http://nationmultime...cs_30095697.php

                
After being in a state of denial for weeks, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has finally admitted to international media that Thai authorities pushed Rohingya boat people back out to sea and abandoned them.
                                                                          In an exclusive interview with CNN on Thursday, Abhisit said there was reason to believe some incidents had occurred.

"It's not exactly clear whose handiwork it is," he said. "All the authorities say it's not their policy, though I have reason to believe some instances did happen, but if I can find evidence as to who exactly did this, I will certainly bring them to account."

.....The Navy arrested nearly 1,000 Rohingyaboat people in December and January. They were shifted to the strategic military island of Koh Sai Daeng before being towed back out to sea and abandoned...."


"Though, ..but IF I CAN FIND evidence "    

Is this the new ThaiSpeak?

this is NOT "new Thai speak" it happened to be a new strategy, brought in by at least the Samak lead Government!

Because it was given into the hands of the ISOC it must be considered a "covert operation", as f.E. the CIA does...

So this Government has to clean up some mess left behind by previous Governments!

So keep on blaming....

Edited by Samuian, 2009-02-14 12:20:22.

[ballpoint]

We're seeing the same tired arguments in this thread from the anti Abhisit brigade as used and countered in the Angelina Jolie one.  How about merging the two?  Or at least read them both before asking something that's already been covered on the other.

[Journalist]

So who do we believe? Abhisit Vejajiva, who says the incident did happen, and Plus, who says it didn't ?

[sriracha john]

I know who I'm having difficulty believing... it's CNN...  as they seem to have gotten their story wrong... again...

PM denies admitting Thai authorities set Rohingyas adrift to sea

BANGKOK, Feb 13 (TNA) - Thailand's Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Friday dismissed foreign media report he admitted Thai authorities had towed Rohingya migrants out to sea.

Referring to his interview with CNN, Mr. Abhisit said he did not admit Thai authorities had set Rohingyas adrift to sea. The Thai premier clarified what he actually said was “I have reason to believe that some instances of this have happened.”

CNN asked if the Thai premier knew by whom these were orchestrated and Mr. Abhisit replied if he could have the evidence as to exactly it was, he would certainly bring them to account.

In an exclusive interview with CNN, Mr. Abhisit did not single out any Thai authorities pushed the migrants out to sea.

"I believe that at times when there is …a lot of pressure in terms of the numbers of these people coming in, there are attempts to try to let these people drift to other shores. The one thing that is clear is that when these procedures do occur it is done on the understanding that there is enough food and water supplied,” the prime minister said.

[Journalist]

Abhisit ought to give a straight answer instead of winkling around.

Q
"Did the Thai authorities tow out a boatload of grubby refugees recently?"

A
"Yes and it won't happen again.
or
"No"

Its not a difficult question, even for an old Etonian. His answer doesn't have to be as convoluted as the one given above.

“I have reason to believe that some instances of this have happened.” .....that doesn't seem to be wishy washy though. It means that ....some instances have happened.

Edited by Journalist, 2009-02-14 19:39:22.

[blaze]

sriracha john, on 2009-02-14 19:28:51, said:

I know who I'm having difficulty believing... it's CNN...  as they seem to have gotten their story wrong... again...

PM denies admitting Thai authorities set Rohingyas adrift to sea

The Thai premier clarified what he actually said was “I have reason to believe that some instances of this have happened.”

There is a difference between "reason to suspect"- and "reason to believe."
If he believes this happened- and he says he does - with reason, no less- then it would be nice if he were a bit more forthcoming and quit dancing - sooner or later- he's going to be asked what that reason is. And if there is none that he can produce- he may very well have made himself some powerful enemies.

Interesting that within a week of him making talking to Cnn,  the Nation did a rather damning story on ISOC- and the Post published an interview with Manas. (Who claimed that absolutely nothing questionable happened)---  coincidence?

[Journalist]

In his public utterances Abhisit has to shit or get off the pot. He is now the Bossman.

We all know he is an eloquent speaker, with a barrister's touch. But many hope he is going to bring more than semantics and rhetoric. Because he speaks such good English he will be held to higher standards by his foreign audiences.

If he's saying along the lines of ...'No I didn't say the incident took place, I said I had reason to believe that incidents like this took place'.....thats a disingenuous response.

His predecessors would have just lied..."Nope, it didn't happen", but his refutation is almost Clintonesque. I hope he doesn't go down that route.

.

[TAWP]

Journalist, on 2009-02-14 21:46:46, said:

In his public utterances Abhisit has to shit or get off the pot. He is now the Bossman.

We all know he is an eloquent speaker, with a barrister's touch. But many hope he is going to bring more than semantics and rhetoric. Because he speaks such good English he will be held to higher standards by his foreign audiences.

If he's saying along the lines of ...'No I didn't say the incident took place, I said I had reason to believe that incidents like this took place'.....thats a disingenuous response.

His predecessors would have just lied..."Nope, it didn't happen", but his refutation is almost Clintonesque. I hope he doesn't go down that route.

"I did not push that woman, Somchaia, out to sea..."

[blaze]

Journalist, on 2009-02-14 20:46:46, said:

In his public utterances Abhisit has to shit or get off the pot. He is now the Bossman.

We all know he is an eloquent speaker, with a barrister's touch. But many hope he is going to bring more than semantics and rhetoric. Because he speaks such good English he will be held to higher standards by his foreign audiences.

If he's saying along the lines of ...'No I didn't say the incident took place, I said I had reason to believe that incidents like this took place'.....thats a disingenuous response.

His predecessors would have just lied..."Nope, it didn't happen", but his refutation is almost Clintonesque. I hope he doesn't go down that route.

.

Remember- he is playing primarily  for a local audience- and part of that audience consists of powerful elements over which he has zero control- (he wouldn't be the first sitting PM to attempt to blow his own self up in a botched self-assasination attempt)  and he knows it- yet he has sent out a strong message here-- he has 'reason'- and reason means evidence- not gut feeling- or suspicion.
That message has been delivered through the international- and now, through the local media.
A very clever move.

I suspect that he knows exactly what he's doing - and begrudgingly- I give him a tip o' the hat. And a sidelong wink.
He needn't explain this - there is no law forcing him- but he has let it be known that he's not as naiive as he might appear-
He can't name anybody- even if he had the names- he is way down the totem pole- only PM- that's not much in this country- but he has the ability to sway public opinion-

I can't help but find it odd- the liberties that the English speaking media (and possibly the Thais) are taking with the military- a flippant back page article today in one of the papers came very close to suggesting that Gen Sonthi is- if not a crook- then ... demented.  These papers know on what side their bread  is buttered.

Edited by blaze, 2009-02-14 21:07:14.

[Steve2UK]

Plus, on 2009-02-14 11:05:14, said:

Quote

Armchair human rights warriors, their pencil is their sword!

Yes, except these days their sword is a keyboard.

How do they feel about torturing their own mouse?

I think the collection of headlines from the first pages of this thread should be reposted here:

Thais 'leave boat people to die'

Thailand's deadly treatment of migrants

Hundreds dead, set adrift by Thais

Thailand Is Accused of Rejecting Migrants
"....At least 300 people are reported to be missing at sea."

Abandoned at Sea: The Sad Plight of the Rohingya
"...More than 300 people who were with Muzaffar are missing; they are all believed to be dead." at the end of the second paragraph.

That's how Western media covered the subject, I think I omitted only one Australian story that didn't have "hundreds dead" in it.

I'll remember it for the next time people refer to BBC as a source of correct and truthful information and analysis.

Wow - so good they named posted it twice......... first on the Angelina Jolie thread and now again here.

To save ThaiVisa members needless fatigue, I won't copy the above bad form by repeating my own post from the Jolie thread which deals with these headlines/articles at length ( http://www.thaivisa....50#entry2534722 ) other than to point out here that the one headline listed above (out of dozens) which does - wrongly - mention "hundreds dead" is the Sunday Post....... in Hong Kong. Western media?

And then Samuian rushes to quote it in full yet again to claim "It's about blaming WRONGLY a whole country and it's government for something that never happened!". Correct - it never happened (or hasn't been proved to have happened). More importantly, with the exception of the one sloppy Hong Kong Sunday Post headline - the widespread sensationalising/overblowing media coverage claiming it (as characterised by Plus/Samuian) never happened.

As for "I think I omitted only one Australian story that didn't have 'hundreds dead' in it"? This is, to put it very mildly, disingenuous. Where anything like "hundreds dead" appears (and it does not appear at all in many reports skipped by Plus), it is properly attributed to Rohingya people as "allegedly", "the tale.... if accurate" etc.  More often it's "missing" or "unaccounted for"........ not dead.

Awkward things these facts - but necessary.

[Steve2UK]

blaze, on 2009-02-14 21:04:27, said:

Journalist, on 2009-02-14 20:46:46, said:

In his public utterances Abhisit has to shit or get off the pot. He is now the Bossman.

We all know he is an eloquent speaker, with a barrister's touch. But many hope he is going to bring more than semantics and rhetoric. Because he speaks such good English he will be held to higher standards by his foreign audiences.

If he's saying along the lines of ...'No I didn't say the incident took place, I said I had reason to believe that incidents like this took place'.....thats a disingenuous response.

His predecessors would have just lied..."Nope, it didn't happen", but his refutation is almost Clintonesque. I hope he doesn't go down that route.

.

Remember- he is playing primarily  for a local audience- and part of that audience consists of powerful elements over which he has zero control- (he wouldn't be the first sitting PM to attempt to blow his own self up in a botched self-assasination attempt)  and he knows it- yet he has sent out a strong message here-- he has 'reason'- and reason means evidence- not gut feeling- or suspicion.
That message has been delivered through the international- and now, through the local media.
A very clever move.

I suspect that he knows exactly what he's doing - and begrudgingly- I give him a tip o' the hat. And a sidelong wink.
He needn't explain this - there is no law forcing him- but he has let it be known that he's not as naiive as he might appear-
He can't name anybody- even if he had the names- he is way down the totem pole- only PM- that's not much in this country- but he has the ability to sway public opinion-

I can't help but find it odd- the liberties that the English speaking media (and possibly the Thais) are taking with the military- a flippant back page article today in one of the papers came very close to suggesting that Gen Sonthi is- if not a crook- then ... demented.  These papers know on what side their bread  is buttered.

I think Blaze has the more accurate take on this situation. IMO Abhisit cannot move too far too quickly and needs to allow/get key supporting opinion to build further before he can take anything like firm action. Personally, I also think he wants to - but it's playing with fire.

As I've mentioned previously, it seems likely that a certain colonel (and possibly an equivalent-rank navy opposite number) will already be considering which "inactive post" he's got coming. That's the Thai way and SOP for most military........ "deputy heads will roll".