[INTJ]

tuktukmike, on 2005-01-15 01:05:41, said:

.

The car does have the 7m engine and you seem to know your stuff about this car, the head gasket has long been a problem with these cars due to the air con rad being right in front of the water rad.
This causes the Supras to overheat, i have solved this by fitting an electric fan in front coupled to a relay to the air con switch, works a treat.


<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Mike,

The reason for the long standing head gasket problem on the 7M engine is not due to the location of the air/water rads. It is due to Toyota not fastening the heads down tight enough onto the block in the factory !

Toyota used a torque setting of 78 N-m on the head bolts. This is insufficient for the pressures created by this engine, especially the 7M-GTE (turbocharged, which I would guess your car is), although Toyota have never admitted this problem. All the BHG problems can be avoided by a re-torque on the head bolts to 97 N-m (78 ft-lb). Also the OEM head bolts are of questionable quality, replacing them with high quality aftermarket ones, such as ARP is money well spent, as is using an all-metal gasket such as HKS.

I was going to suggest you should use some kind of additional electric fan for cooling, but you've done that already. I would also consider bypassing the heater matrix and fitting a larger radiator. Your biggest problem with running this car here is going to be cooling, especially when the car is stationary. Also you will have the air-con is running full belt most of the time, creating more heat and putting more strain on the engine. For the first weeks keep a close eye on the temperature gauge and more so the coolant levels, this will give you some idea of how your car is handling the heat, and what steps (if any) you need to take.

I cannot emphasise enough the importance of checking the head bolts, and re-checking them every year.


Cheers,


INTJ

This post has been edited by INTJ: 2005-01-15 08:50

[INTJ]

Double post

This post has been edited by INTJ: 2005-01-15 08:46

[tuktukmike]

Hi intj

Yes i have already done the mod to the head bolts, the problem with the old Toyota ones was that they streched,

I bought new Toyota head bolts that Toyota now market as they seem to have realised there was a problem with the old ones, though as you say they never admitted it.

I got the car cheap for this exact reason (head blown) and changed the gasket three times until i read about the problem with the bolts.

I also cured the problem with an aftermarket head gasket from one of the leading specialist companys but for the life of me cant remember who.

I have also done a de-cat by replacing the exhaust system and that has made a huge differance to the whole running of the car. the old one was broken up inside.

Like i said you seem to know your stuff on these cars have you owned one, and if you have dont you agree they are beauties.

mike.

[tuktukmike]

Hi Taxexile.

The Lexus which started production in the 90s is in fact a Toyota, i thought everyone knew this, also the auction houses in the Uk are full of Lexus LX400s that nobody wants.

The same applies to BMW, you can pick up late 90s models for a song, but with usual problems ie electrical faults, smoking engines, tatty bodies.

You are right ford tried to compete against the e class Mercedes this is why the design of the front end is what it, very simular to e class will those snoop front lights.

If you were to talk to ford main dealers they would tell you that they made a car that was over cost compaired to retail price, due to the level of refinment built into these cars.

I started work at 15 in a ford main dealer when we still had the mk4 Zephyrs onto the first Granadas and i can honestly say ford can produce good large cars, but due to UK fuel costs the market for this type of vehicle has shrunk.

But at least ford had the balls to try something different and also i like the scorp, personal choice i suppose.

By the way, Jaguar is also Ford and now powered by Ford engines, Saab is GM and the list goes on,

Anyway forget the scorp now as the pressing issue is the Supra, I will know more next week when i can let everyone know the final cost of import.

mike.

[taxexile]

Quote

Anyway forget the scorp now

that will be easy !!

but keep on posting about your dealings with customs and how the supra behaves once it hits the roads here.

[INTJ]

Hi,

Yes, the Supra is a nice car, and will be quite a head turner here. Hopefully you can escape the "Burt Reynolds" look Supra drivers are prone to by :-

1) Not wearing the older RayBan style sunglasses (favourite of the Thai Police)

2) Not driving 80's style with your arm out of the window

3) Not exposing your chest whilst driving

4) Not playing music at excessive volume (especially while doing any of the above).



But seriously, I would consider doing a 1JZ engine swap on that car. The 3rd generations supra was sold in the US and Europe from 1986.5 until 1992. The turbo model was available in 1987. All these supras were sold with 7M engines, and this engine was at the end of its life when it was pressed into service in the A70 supra. It has a small bore and long stroke, earning it the name "truck engine." It simply isn't good for high RPM operation or high air flow due to the small valve size relative to displacement.

Toyota remedied this in late 1989 when the spectacular JZ engine series arrived in the supra with a 280hp twin turbo 1JZ-GTE, but only in Japan. Unlike the 7M the 1JZ is over square (has a bigger bore than stoke) and the 2JZ is a square engine. Both engine display incredible strength, with many 4th generation Supras (2JZ-GTE) producing 800+ rwhp on stock Toyota bottom ends (Toyota also used this engine in the Soarer, quite a few grey imports of those floating around in the UK).

In short the reason to swap:- the JZ engines are far superior to the 7M in just about every way. Thai mechanics are familiar with them, there is a wealth of spares available, the engines are cheap, produce more power have more tuning potential, and are much more reliable. Most die-hard Supra fans in Europe and the US are doing this swap, and spending massive amounts of money doing so. Here you can do it at a fraction of the cost with none of the SVA/emmisions/insurance hassles.

Just something to think about once the car is cleared and registered.


Cheers,


INTJ


.

[INTJ]

Taxexile said :-

"ford should have stuck to what they know best , which is making cheap everyday cars for people who dont like cars but need one.

it didnt sell well in the uk due to its frog like face and ugly arse , but they came loaded with all kinds of electric goodies that enabled the mechanics called upon to repair them to be able to afford bmw's and audis !
most ended up as mini-cabs or unsaleable items slowly decomposing at the back of used car lots"

Spoken like a true northerner



Yeah, the Granada Scorpio, or Ultima, or whatever. A "love it or hate it" car, a bit like marmite. No guessing where you sit on that one !

A friend of mine had an ex-police one in the UK, (could even be the same one in the picture, white, no sunroof, very rare). I had a drive and thought it was really nice and the build quality was good.

I don't recall ever seeing one here (although there are a few Granadas), I think it would be quite a unique car to have here.

I've got a Vauxhall Omega, similar type of car and also few and far between here. Sometimes its nice to have something different. Parts can be a pain though.


Cheers,


INTJ

.

[taxexile]

Quote

"love it or hate it" type of car

its probably a well made and decent car , a lot of the bigger cars made by ford and vauxhall are , and they probably were sold cheap so as to get people to buy them rather than mercs and bmws , but my dislike of the ford is purely down to its looks ,i'm not questioning its abilities , to my eyes it is just such an ugly and uncoordinated design compared to the competition at that time.

i find it strange that the company that designed one of the best looking cars of all time....the gt40 and its updated copy.... should consistently fail to produce eye catching mass market saloons ( other than the zodiacs of the very late 50's ! )


there is enough visual pollution in this country without having to look at ford scorpios as well !

This post has been edited by taxexile: 2005-01-15 15:16

[INTJ]

I think I would edge towards agreeing with you about the looks, especially the arse-end. Although having driven one and knowing they're actually OK, it somehow makes them a bit easier on the eye.

Incidentally, whilst reading your earlier post with a pic of the "Scorpio Ultima" (sounds like something Alan Partridge would drive ), my mrs walked past and noticed it on the screen.

"Wow, what is that car ?

"Its a Scorpio Ultima, what do you think ?"

"I like it, I think it look good, look smart. Is that new model ?"






Cheers,


INTJ

.

[Axel]

tuktukmike, on 2005-01-14 09:01:44, said:

Hi Axel,

Not too sure about your figures that you quote but excise tax i have been told will be 14%.

What i was told last week was that i was lucky my car is late as new tariffs have just been introduced due to agreement with EU starting january 1st. my shipping agent told me about this last week when i had to leave work permit and passport with her.

The import cost to release from customs has been confirmed and the total for clearence is 67500bht, ........
Mike.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Mike,

I was referring to the Thai customs tariff which specifies the duty and taxes
(as well as value-discounts on older cars)

http://www.customs.go.th/Customs-Eng/Perso...Nme=PersonalPer

Did not do a search with BKK Customs house on any changes.

Anyway, good luck and let's hope everything goes smoothly.

Axel

[Thetyim]

Hi INTJ & TukTuk,

Do not know if this is true for the Supra but some head bolts are stretch bolts. They are supposed to stretch under torque.
For this reason you can only officially use them once but we used to get away with two before discarding them.

[tuktukmike]

Hi INTJ

Great info you have on the supra, but i think it already has enough power for Thailand but the engine swap you talk about is interesting.

No i dont look like Burt Reynolds my god i am 47 years young, also dont have a hairy chest.

Axel, this is a first try at importing as everyone says dont do it, this is why i have to try, i honestly dont know what changes have been made but all i can say is that my shipping agent said i am lucky that the car arrived after 1st jan as tarifs have been reduced????????? you tell me.

I was told that i could never import tuk-tuks into Europe but i did and even suffered the wrath of the thai goverment, this was resolved once they realised they made a big mistake, but of course no apoligy.

Type on internet search MMW Imports and you will see what i mean, all started from interview with Bangkok post.

mike.

[BAF]

tuktukmike, on 2005-01-15 18:42:38, said:

I was told that i could never import tuk-tuks into Europe but i did and even suffered the wrath of the thai goverment, this was resolved once they realised they made a big mistake, but of course no apoligy.

Type on internet search MMW Imports and you will see what i mean, all started from interview with Bangkok post.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi, aren't "Ape" (which are the original "tuk-tuk", made by the Italian company "Piaggio") sold in UK? (http://www.vtl.piaggio.com/ape.htm)

I don't know how much buying and importing Thai tuk-tuks cost you but have you considered to modify and sell Apes if there is a market for those vehicles in UK?

BAF

This post has been edited by BAF: 2005-01-19 07:33

[tuktukmike]

Hi Baf

NO, no way.

The Piaggio Ape is not and never has been the original Tuk-Tuk,

Tuk Tuks first started life in Japan and as with everything the thais copied the idea.

The Piaggio Ape is a pile of crap, we had a company near us in the UK who was a dealer for these vehicles and sold only one,

The problem with them is that they have a 50cc engine fitted to a vehicle with an enclosed cab which is made for midgets.

The top speed of an ape is 30mph downhill with a strong gale behind you compaired to our tuk-tuks with a top speed depending on which engine you choose of 100-110kph, also fully loaded our tuk-tuks pull like a train.

Also our intention was and still is to sell original Thai Tuk-Tuks into the EU, if not then i might as well also sell Reliants, i think not.

Mike.

[BAF]

tuktukmike, on 2005-01-19 02:46:02, said:

Hi Baf

NO, no way.

The Piaggio Ape is not and never has been the original Tuk-Tuk,

Tuk Tuks first started life in Japan and as with everything the thais copied the idea.

The first Ape dates back to 1948, what about Japanese "tuk-tuks"?
Or are you alluding at "human powered" ri-shò (but which don't have anything to do with real tuk-tuks)?

Quote

The Piaggio Ape is a pile of crap, we had a company near us in the UK who was a dealer for these vehicles and sold only one,

The problem with them is that they have a 50cc engine fitted to a vehicle with an enclosed cab which is made for midgets.

The top speed of an ape is 30mph downhill with a strong gale behind you compaired to our tuk-tuks with a top speed depending on which engine you choose of 100-110kph, also fully loaded our tuk-tuks pull like a train.

Real Apes were 500cc and much bigger, they have made the history of the Italian countryside after WWII and have been used to do pretty much everything...
Today an utility vehicle with 3 wheels has no reason (in the West) to live, for economic and safety reasons. There is a market for 3 wheeled fun vehicles though (I think 3 wheels lovers call them trikes), and you can buy a wide range of trikes (usually huge and very powerful).
The reason for which Piaggio still makes Apes and makes them smaller and 50cc is that they can be driven in Europe even by 14 year olds without a driving license (and the max speed is limited by law, for that purpose).
They are still bought in small numbers in niche markets and they are the most economical alternative (3000 euro) as a "closed" individual mean of transport (and they can still load 200kg and make 35 km with 1 liter of petrol).
Anyway, there still are bigger versions:
- 218cc, two passengers, max load 700kg, steering wheeled version available (as opposed to handle bars)
- 422cc (diesel), two passengers, max load 700kg, 29 km/l, steering wheeled version available

Quote

Also our intention was and still is to sell original Thai Tuk-Tuks into the EU, if not then i might as well also sell Reliants, i think not.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, understand you are selling them as exotic fun vehicles and not as strictly utility vehicles, my sole point was: according to the costs for buying and importing in UK Thai tuk-tuks, would it be cheaper to buy and modify Apes to make them look like "multicolored" Thai tuk-tuks?
Then again, on second tought, maybe what the customers really want is not just the vehicle per se, but the fact that it comes from Thailand...

BAF

This post has been edited by BAF: 2005-01-19 16:35

[tuktukmike]

Hi Baf

As i said the tuk-tuk is an asian vehicle which the Piaggio Ape has to my knowledge never claimed to be.

The name derives from the sound of the japanese tuk-tuks which had single cylinder two stroke engines, hence tuk tuk tuk tuk and so on.

If you looked at my web site you would see we manufacture delivery and refrigerated tuk-tuks, and you would be very surprised at the interest and orders we have received since production started.

We also have customers who for the last 5 years have plated these passenger tuk-tuks for private hire use, and this summer sees the first ones to obtain hackney carrage licenses in Penzance, Newquay, and Weston Super Mare.

As for economic reasons i think you may have been away from UK and Europe for a long time as the fuel costs have kept rising year by year, so as for the delivery vehicles they make a lot of sense in large citys and towns.

Not quite sure what your point is about safety reasons?????. We fit all our vehicles with the latest braking designs and the whole structure and safety aspects have been addressed, i think you may be mistaking ours for the Bangkok type tuk-tuks.

Anyway off topic sorry, i dont want to upset the admin.

Mike.

[tuktukmike]

Well back to topic,

I plan to travel to Leam Chabang on friday to pick up my car from the port.

So here is the final cost this end,

Customs clearance 125,000bht.

Tea money, will post later, not sure if i should show on here.

Agents fees 15000 approx plus port fees, which are not a lot.

Would i do it again, maybe one more time for the wife. but it does cause a lot of worry and glad i have a good agent.

I will take a picture of car when i get it back to Hua Hin so people can see its not all bull.

From a very happy forum member, Mike.

This post has been edited by tuktukmike: 2005-01-20 02:18

[BAF]

tuktukmike, on 2005-01-19 19:51:31, said:

Hi Baf

As i said the tuk-tuk is an asian vehicle which the Piaggio Ape has to my knowledge never claimed to be.

The name derives from the sound of the japanese tuk-tuks which had single cylinder two stroke engines, hence tuk tuk tuk tuk and so on.

Exactly what I said. Those Jap tuk-tuks were (much) later copies of Ape Piaggio which had, of course, 500cc single cylinder two stroke engines and made that "tuk-tuk" sound
You forget that, until recent years, also the Japs (exactly like you say the Thais, Chinese etc) were famous for copying stuff

Not only the Ape is the original "tuk-tuk" but Piaggio has invented even the variant of tuk-tuks that you can find for example in northern Thailand's provinces (Thai name: sam-lhor kr-ang).

I remember seeing a parade of historical Vespa(s) and Lambretta(s) in Walking Street (Pattaya) and while a lot of Thais knew they were old scooters ("pop") from Italy, some of them tought they were just fashionable Italian-made models of Jap-invented scooters!

Piaggio (Vespa) and Innocenti (Lambretta) are the inventors and the only makers (for a long time) of the "scooter" exactly like Piaggio is the inventor of the "tuk-tuk" and the only maker for a long time...

Quote

As for economic reasons i think you may have been away from UK and Europe for a long time as the fuel costs have kept rising year by year, so as for the delivery vehicles they make a lot of sense in large citys and towns.

On the contrary, that's why I reported the fuel consumption of the models Piaggio sells now. 35 km/l for the petrol version and 29 km/l for the diesel one.
And those are some of the niche markets I was talking about on which Piaggio is still selling its Apes.

Quote

Not quite sure what your point is about safety reasons?????. We fit all our vehicles with the latest braking designs and the whole structure and safety aspects have been addressed, i think you may be mistaking ours for the Bangkok type tuk-tuks.

The safety a small, light weight, 3 wheeled vehicle can offer is closer to that of a motorbike than that of a car...

Quote

Anyway off topic sorry, i dont want to upset the admin.

Ok, let's finish it here, I just tought it was an interesting subject

Good luck with your business anyway! I visited your website and your products are interesting, although you should credit Piaggio and not Thai or Jap tuk-tuks on your site...

BAF

[tuktukmike]

Head in hands,

BAF

perhaps you can show me where Piaggio claim their vehicles to be tuk-tuks???

In no way did the Japenese copy Piaggio to make these vehicles.

Not sure again about your point on scooters?????????? my only feeling was that the Lambretta was a far superior scooter.

It would be interesting to know how many Apes they are selling as the UK market seems to have dried up.

The safety aspect you talk of i am afraid is completly wrong, we had to supply two tuk-tuks for crash testing at Millbrooke so we could get type approval, Our tuk-tuks were tested as motor cars due to the fact that European law stated that 3 wheeled vehicle over 450kg was classed as a motor car, This is why Piaggio only make flimsy 3 wheelers to avoid these tests.

I would sooner credit Reliant for anything rather than Piaggio, as i said i think you are way off line to give Piaggio credit for tuk-tuks but i am happy to still credit the Thais and the Japanese.

Samlor, i think you should take a history lesson, what on earth has Piaggio to do with the samlor, these type of rickshaw started out as pedal vehicles or did Piaggio invent the samlor also

[tuktukmike]

Hi Baf

History lesson no 1

First ape as you say 1948, This was no more than a motorised scooter with an axle shoehorned on the back, Japanese had these same type vehicles even earlier.

It was called the ape giardinetta.

First tuk-tuk style vehicle Piaggio produced was in 1964 and called the ape-D, sorry too late again as tuk-tuks were running before this date

In fact if you do a search for bajaj the indian version they are the same vehicle so maybe Piagio copied the indians or vice versa.

[BAF]

[quote name='tuktukmike' date='2005-01-20 02:29:12'] Head in hands,

BAF

perhaps you can show me where Piaggio claim their vehicles to be tuk-tuks???[/quote]
You haven't yet realized that Piaggio doesn't have to claim anything since "tuk-tuk" it's just a Thai name for the local copy of their original product.
Is Coca Cola claiming that their beverage "is" Fuzzy Cola or Pop Cola or any other copycat beverage?


[quote]In no way did the Japenese copy Piaggio to make these vehicles.[/quote]Piaggio were making Apes (which means bee, and BTW Vespa means wasp) in 1948.
When did the Japanese start to make their "tuk-tuks"?
What Japanese company/companies? What was/were its comercial name/names?

[quote]Not sure again about your point on scooters?????????? my only feeling was that the Lambretta was a far superior scooter.[/quote]
My point is that the historical memory is quickly lost and facts get easily mystified so even amongst scooters lovers for the sole fact that nowadays you see tons of Jap plastic clones of the original scooters, Vespa and Lambretta, you automatically assume that scooters "must" come from Japan...

Ok, maybe that example with scooters was a bit confusing since we are already talking about motor vehicles, let's try with music. It has already happened twice that my mother has heard my Thai wife singing recent Thai pop songs whose melodies were exactly like a couple of Italian pop songs from the '60s, my mother still had the records from her teen years and played them for my wife who till then would have sworn they were original Thai melodies...
Coming back to motor vehicles, Thais think that "motosai" is a Thai world...

[quote]It would be interesting to know how many Apes they are selling as the UK market seems to have dried up.[/quote]I have no idea but as I wrote, in Italy they are still selling the various versions of Ape in small numbers in niche markets.

[quote]The safety aspect you talk of i am afraid is completly wrong, we had to supply two tuk-tuks for crash testing at Millbrooke so we could get type approval, Our tuk-tuks were tested as motor cars due to the fact that European law stated that 3 wheeled vehicle over 450kg was classed as a motor car, This is why Piaggio only make flimsy 3 wheelers to avoid these tests.[/quote]
The reasons are different, Piaggio makes bigger and heavier vehicles (with 4 wheels) classed as motor cars, the whole point of Ape is, nowadays, to be as as compact (to be used as a "heavy" -700kg- but small transport in jammed cities) and economic (in every sense) as possible and to be able to be driven with a driving license for motorbikes or without any license at all (for the 50cc versions).

[quote]I would sooner credit Reliant for anything rather than Piaggio, as i said i think you are way off line to give Piaggio credit for tuk-tuks but i am happy to still credit the Thais and the Japanese.[/quote]Up to you, just trying to make you aware that those credits are groundless
I have asked it before, when have tuk-tuks made their appearance in Japan? When in Thailand?
We have them in Italy since 57 years...

[quote]Samlor, i think you should take a history lesson, what on earth has Piaggio to do with the samlor, these type of rickshaw started out as pedal vehicles or did Piaggio invent the samlor also      
[right]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/right][/quote]
You are talking about the "sam-lhor thip" there.
The idea, concept, design and exclusive production for many years of vehicles half motorbike and half "cart" (with many variants for passengers and transportation of various types of goods) is of Piaggio. "Sam-lhor kr-ang" were circulating in Italy in 1948. Since it seems you want to give me history lessons, can you tell me when they started to circulate in Thailand?

[BAF]

tuktukmike, on 2005-01-20 03:22:43, said:

Hi Baf

History lesson no 1

First ape as you say 1948, This was no more than a motorised scooter with an axle shoehorned on the back

Bravo, you have just described a "sam-lhor kr-ang" (the Ape A)...
See pictures of Ape A and C at: http://mio.discoremo...rgilio.it/4all/

Quote

Japanese had these same type vehicles even earlier.

When? Where? Who (constructor)?

Quote

First tuk-tuk style vehicle Piaggio produced was in 1964 and called the ape-D, sorry too late again as tuk-tuks were running before this date

First 100% "tuk-tuk style" was Ape C (1956). See the pic.
In 1964 were already being produced (from 5-6 years and after having explored pretty much all the variants possible) even the "sophisticated" Ape Pentarò with 5 wheels (3 wheeled engine + jointed trailer with interconnected breaking system)

And where and when exactly were tuk-tuks running before this date?

Quote

In fact if you do a search for bajaj the indian version they are the same vehicle so maybe Piagio copied the indians or vice versa.

LOL! Bajaj Auto is in fact producing (in Pune, India) Ape Piaggio under license from Piaggio......

This post has been edited by BAF: 2005-01-20 11:45

[Dr. Burrito]

So did you ever get your car?

[Thetyim]

Dunno.

I PM'd Mike a few days back but got no reply.

He has gone very quiet.

[tuktukmike]

Hi all, im back im back at last,

Some pile of crap sent me an e mail with a worm that destroyed my computer settings and programmes.

We searched the house and as i said before we just moved from england, so we went through boxes and boxes of our stuff and could not find the recovery discs we needed. then today i went into draw in bedroom and found it, so at last i am on line again.

Car has a problem, they have damaged the front end and also ripped off the exhaust system, this was caused they say by a flat tyre and as a result the underside came into contact with the ramps. what happend next was that they had to clear the ramp so used a forklift to remove car (yes i know i should have sent by container).

They wanted me to sign that i accept car in this condition which i refused as i have shipping insurance and want someone to pay for repairs. so now in the hands of lawyers in BKK and also trying to deal with company in england.

Should i hope have resalution in the next week fingers crossed.

mike.

By the way where is the italian prat who claims they invented tuk-tuks,

This post has been edited by tuktukmike: 2005-02-09 01:10