464 replies to this topic
Posted 2009-02-05 15:57:29
 uptheos, on 2009-02-05 09:20:33, said:
Nothing against gays, they make the same contributions to society as everyone else.
But why the need for a parade?
Most everyone knows their own sexuality - can't it just be left at that?
This is absolutely right. I was always under the impression that gay people want to be treated like everyone else. There has never been a heterosexual pride parade ever. No need for a gay pride parade, unless they want to be singled out and mocked.
Posted 2009-02-05 16:04:06
Pdaz, on 2009-02-05 14:12:42, said: Kaez, on 2009-02-05 13:47:40, said: IanForbes, on 2009-02-05 10:00:53, said: All I ask is why do gays need a parade? I don't see parades for heterosexuals. Parades just plug up the traffic in already over crowded streets.
If you did have a parade for heterosexuals there would be an uproar in the gay community, you would all be labeled as homophobes, yet in reality straights should have the same right to celebrate being straight as gays.
I think the main issue with gays is they let their sexuality DEFINE them, IE, wanting to portray to the world that they are gay. Mind you, not all, but most do this. . I dont have a problem with someone that is gay, until they feel they need to announce the fact, and shove it in my face.....like the form of a parade. The same goes for some jock that defines himself as a die hard sports fan, no problem until they start getting rowdy.
But to me, its sad that someone would let something as simple as their sexuality define them, as for me, what sex I prefer is such a small portion of who I am as a person, that it would be such a waste if that was my main trait that I showed to the world. I pity most gays that are "gay and proud", so sad to have that as your major focus of their life. The gays that are gay and carry out life without the need to announce it, I admire.
What an excellent post... Wish I could have put my point so elloquently...
I agree, I wish I wouldn't have posted mine now that I read this.
Posted 2009-02-05 16:06:57
Quote No need for a gay pride parade
Two basic reasons: as a focus for equal civil rights under the law and as a special interest party. As I said before I would prefer if these were organized by Thais here if they are going to happen here.
Posted 2009-02-05 16:11:42
I really like what Khun Milton said : "I just happen to believe that public festivals where a particular section of society can interact with the wider community are a positive thing beneficial to the whole."
And I agree with other commentators who have noted that "regular life" here in Chiang Mai is already a "heterosexual parade" (even if most of the clowns are ignorant unsmiling louts who carry beer-bellies and Singha, not balloons).
No one is "forced" to attend a Gay Pride Parade to my knowledge : so I fail to see why several posters have to use analogies like "rammed down my throat" except as an expression of their own sexual insecurities.
As a permanently maladjusted hard-wired heterosexual I'd like to say, as did Chairman Mao : "let a thousand flowers bloom."
If we are all not God's children no matter what our gender "flavour," then what are we ?
~o:37;
Posted 2009-02-05 16:15:37
Good posts, Jingthing, I do agree with you and most of the pro-posters in this thread!
I've started to write a longer answer on this but gave it up as I see no point in discussing this with people that still think sexual orientation is a matter of CHOICE....
Over here in Germany I regularly do participate in Gay Pride marches to support my my gay and bi friends.
Posted 2009-02-05 16:21:08
incidentally, those not happy with this do realise that 'gay pride' is just a name for a party nowadays yes? and that the origins of the name are in celebrating the fact that discrimination and prejudice had been overcome back in the 1960s? it's a celebration of diversity and society's ability to evolve into something that accepts people of all sorts and types as just that, people.
Posted 2009-02-05 16:40:10
StevieH, on 2009-02-05 16:21:08, said: incidentally, those not happy with this do realise that 'gay pride' is just a name for a party nowadays yes? and that the origins of the name are in celebrating the fact that discrimination and prejudice had been overcome back in the 1960s? it's a celebration of diversity and society's ability to evolve into something that accepts people of all sorts and types as just that, people.
So if the discrimination and prejudice was overcome in the 60's why are people still banging on about it now! Why does anyone need to celebrate that they are gay?
Posted 2009-02-05 16:41:09
Quote the name are in celebrating the fact that discrimination and prejudice had been overcome back in the 1960s?
Not completely. Maybe in Holland. Certainly the discrimination isn't over in the US and Thailand. Yes, there has been major progress in many countries.
Edited by Jingthing, 2009-02-05 16:41:50.
Posted 2009-02-05 16:44:28
DanaDeLuxe, on 2009-02-05 16:15:37, said: Good posts, Jingthing, I do agree with you and most of the pro-posters in this thread!
I've started to write a longer answer on this but gave it up as I see no point in discussing this with people that still think sexual orientation is a matter of CHOICE....
Over here in Germany I regularly do participate in Gay Pride marches to support my my gay and bi friends.
Who said sexual orientation was a matter of choice and why do your gay and bi friends need your support to go on a march?
Posted 2009-02-05 16:47:11
Quote So if the discrimination and prejudice was overcome in the 60's why are people still banging on about it now! Why does anyone need to celebrate that they are gay?
For the same reasons Americans still commemorate Martin Luther King Day, the French Bastille day and countless other examples around the world. Some of the posts on this thread show that discrimination and bigotry are not completely eliminated from society.
Posted 2009-02-05 16:51:02
ChiangMai2, on 2009-02-05 16:40:10, said: So if the discrimination and prejudice was overcome in the 60's why are people still banging on about it now! Why does anyone need to celebrate that they are gay?
i think you're missing the point. a pride march is not about people celebrating that they are gay, but that gay people won acceptance into society and equal rights. how can that not be a reason for a bit of a party?
Jingthing, on 2009-02-05 16:41:09, said: Not completely. Maybe in Holland. Certainly the discrimination isn't over in the US and Thailand. Yes, there has been major progress in many countries.
i think it's linked to equal / civil rights and legal equality as US citizens isn't it? though you're right, as this thread demonstrates perfectly, ignorance, prejudice and discrimination are far from eliminated.
Edited by StevieH, 2009-02-05 16:54:39.
Posted 2009-02-05 16:56:07
let them bring on whatever they want. as long as it brings money back into the local economy.
Posted 2009-02-05 17:00:53
miltonbentley, on 2009-02-05 16:47:11, said: Quote So if the discrimination and prejudice was overcome in the 60's why are people still banging on about it now! Why does anyone need to celebrate that they are gay?
For the same reasons Americans still commemorate Martin Luther King Day, the French Bastille day and countless other examples around the world. Some of the posts on this thread show that discrimination and bigotry are not completely eliminated from society.
Well they are both national holidays - Not really quite the same thing....But heck, If we can get a national holiday to commemorate being gay then that's fantastic news! Perhaps you could have regular gay days at Tuskers, in fact really you should be sponsoring this event no?
Posted 2009-02-05 17:01:07
Paagai, on 2009-02-05 04:45:12, said: Also, Gay culture in Thailand, as seen by Thai people (not the western view of it), is very different from that seen and accepted in the west. Take for example the number of ladyboys here and events like lady boy shows and contests which are popular even in small farming communities. The culture here is just not the same. For example, should ladyboys have been banned from the Loy Kratong festival parades for the same reasons?
But 'Gay Pride' parades aren't part of Thai culture - they're a western import.
Posted 2009-02-05 17:02:15
Quote why do your gay and bi friends need your support to go on a march?
Support from friends and family is always a positive thing, wouldn't you agree? Need might be too strong a word, but most welcome, most certainly. I know in my case what hurt the most when I came out as a youth was the instant rejection from some friends and family members. One so called friend called me a degenerate to my face, and he was a Yale man (like George W. Bush).
Quote But 'Gay Pride' parades aren't part of Thai culture - they're a western import.
I agree and that is my small issue with these events here. However, Thailand is part of the world and is influenced by the world. KFC is not part of traditional Thai culture but it has become a part of it (sadly). When I marched in gay parades in SF, these events were started by diverse Americans. If a faction of gay Chinese nationals had started those parades and pretended it was anything other than a celebration of Chinese gay cultural values, I would have found them a bit out of bounds. I also wish the Christian missionaries here would just do their charity and shut their traps about religion, that ain't gonna happen either.
Edited by Jingthing, 2009-02-05 17:10:34.
Posted 2009-02-05 17:06:06
Jingthing, on 2009-02-05 07:19:47, said: I imagine most "out" western gay people wouldn't share my view that we should not push a western paradigm of gay liberation on Thais. Another case in point, we are just people, with many varying points of view.
I share your view Jing.
Posted 2009-02-05 17:12:57
orang37, on 2009-02-05 16:11:42, said: I really like what Khun Milton said : "I just happen to believe that public festivals where a particular section of society can interact with the wider community are a positive thing beneficial to the whole."
And I agree with other commentators who have noted that "regular life" here in Chiang Mai is already a "heterosexual parade" (even if most of the clowns are ignorant unsmiling louts who carry beer-bellies and Singha, not balloons).
No one is "forced" to attend a Gay Pride Parade to my knowledge : so I fail to see why several posters have to use analogies like "rammed down my throat" except as an expression of their own sexual insecurities.
As a permanently maladjusted hard-wired heterosexual I'd like to say, as did Chairman Mao : "let a thousand flowers bloom."
If we are all not God's children no matter what our gender "flavour," then what are we ?
~o:37;
Having a parade, you force your presence on people. How? Well, the shop owner that happens to be on the street that you choose has little option to get up and leave, as do those that get caught in traffic and have to wait to pass. Now, if you wanted to have a "gay meet" at some undisclosed location in the mountains, that I have no issues with. And I said I do not like it rammed in my face, like what a parade does. And why is it that when ever someone mentions an opinion that differs than that of the gay community, that they are accused of being insecure of their own sexuality?? This is a trend that I notice when ever I express my opinion about gays, they accuse me of being gay myself!
Posted 2009-02-05 17:16:28
Jingthing, on 2009-02-05 15:21:05, said:
you obviously could not see the tongue in my cheek for that one 
you pro-paraders are obviously forgetting about freedom of speech and the freedom for people to have differing opinions, and just because someone else opinions differ from yours , you call them bigots. does that fit this definition?
bigot - a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own
Posted 2009-02-05 17:17:22
Jingthing, on 2009-02-05 17:02:15, said: Quote why do your gay and bi friends need your support to go on a march?
Support from friends and family is always a positive thing, wouldn't you agree? Need might be too strong a word, but most welcome, most certainly. I know in my case what hurt the most when I came out as a youth was the instant rejection from some friends and family members. One so called friend called me a degenerate to my face, and he was a Yale man (like George W. Bush).
Quote But 'Gay Pride' parades aren't part of Thai culture - they're a western import.
I agree and that is my small issue with these events here. However, Thailand is part of the world and is influenced by the world. KFC is not part of traditional Thai culture but it has become a part of it (sadly). When I marched in gay parades in SF, these events were started by diverse Americans. If a faction of gay Chinese nationals had started those parades and pretended it was anything other than a celebration of Chinese gay cultural values, I would have found them a bit out of bounds. I also wish the Christian missionaries here would just do their charity and shut their traps about religion, that ain't gonna happen either.
You and me both. Those people scare me, they seem to have this look on their face, like......they are hooked up some high voltage prongs and know that they are about to get zapped!! I dunno, its a weird look.
Posted 2009-02-05 17:18:41
Kaez, on 2009-02-05 17:12:57, said: Having a parade, you force your presence on people. How? Well, the shop owner that happens to be on the street that you choose has little option to get up and leave, as do those that get caught in traffic and have to wait to pass. Now, if you wanted to have a "gay meet" at some undisclosed location in the mountains, that I have no issues with. And I said I do not like it rammed in my face, like what a parade does. And why is it that when ever someone mentions an opinion that differs than that of the gay community, that they are accused of being insecure of their own sexuality?? This is a trend that I notice when ever I express my opinion about gays, they accuse me of being gay myself!
isn't it possible that a parade would bring in more people than ever and thereby actually increase the business of said shop owners?
Posted 2009-02-05 17:21:54
Quote Perhaps you could have regular gay days at Tuskers, in fact really you should be sponsoring this event no?
I hope people will find that Tuskers welcomes all kinds of people equally and that the clientele represents a diversity of people regardless of their nationality, race, sexual preference or age. I happen to think diversity of clientele is a strength for any organisation whether it is a bar, company, club or country. I would have no problem hosting a gay event if the people from the community wanted it. Just as I have hosted events for the Scottish, Dutch and other communities over the past year. These events however were not exclusive to those particular groups but enjoyed by all. Exactly what I was getting at in my earlier post which struck a chord with Orang37.
Posted 2009-02-05 17:23:53
@ChiangMai2:
Post # 15: "Their chosen sexuality is their business but I don't wish to have it rammed down my throat ( no pun intended ) In fact I find the whole idea of 'Gay Pride' parades offensive.."
Post # 35: "It is the parade I take offence with, not someone being homosexual. That is a personal sexual choice..."
And I do support Gay Pride marches because most of my glbt friends have had a very hard time in their families and personal surroundings while in the process of coming out (and later on), so this one day of the year they can celebrate being accepted not just being gay but because of their being gay.
And above that those pride parties are lots of fun, showing and celebrating the diversity within the scene as well as in the society. I for one welcome that.
I hope all of the above makes sense, my english skills still lack when trying to word complicated issues......
Dana
Posted 2009-02-05 17:25:52
have to say that i find it quite scary that there are still people who think that homosexuality is a lifestyle choice, like being a punk or a teddy boy. read some books, guys.
Posted 2009-02-05 17:27:37
StevieH, on 2009-02-05 17:18:41, said: Kaez, on 2009-02-05 17:12:57, said: Having a parade, you force your presence on people. How? Well, the shop owner that happens to be on the street that you choose has little option to get up and leave, as do those that get caught in traffic and have to wait to pass. Now, if you wanted to have a "gay meet" at some undisclosed location in the mountains, that I have no issues with. And I said I do not like it rammed in my face, like what a parade does. And why is it that when ever someone mentions an opinion that differs than that of the gay community, that they are accused of being insecure of their own sexuality?? This is a trend that I notice when ever I express my opinion about gays, they accuse me of being gay myself!
isn't it possible that a parade would bring in more people than ever and thereby actually increase the business of said shop owners?
Wether sales would increase or not is not what is being debated.
Posted 2009-02-05 17:28:35
Quote Now, if you wanted to have a "gay meet" at some undisclosed location in the mountains, that I have no issues with. Kind of defeats the purpose of a gay PRIDE event to hide up in the mountains away from other people, as if being gay is something to be ashamed of and to hide. If you think that is how gay people should think, too bad for you.
Edited by Jingthing, 2009-02-05 17:32:56.
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