Opening message for the benefit of visitors and moderators.
This thread is specifically about English Bull Terriers. It is for people who want to buy, sell, or talk about this breed. EBT breeders, owners and others who are interested are all welcome to join and encouraged to contribute.
This thread is not about Staffordshire Bull Terriers, Amstaffs or Pit Bulls, which are altogether different breeds. Sorry, but please look elsewhere for info about these other breeds.
Below I've kicked things off with three messages:
Information about English Bull Terriers and their temperament
What to look out for when buying an EBT in Thailand
About North Thai Bull Terrier Kennel and some photos of EBTs
0
English Bull Terriers
Started by KhunOr, 2009-02-22 15:22
|
93 replies to this topic
#2
KhunOr
Senior Member Posted 2009-02-22 15:27:37
Here's some basic information about the English Bull Terrier breed and temperament. I feel it is important to write this because EBTs are a much misunderstood breed, often confused with other breeds of similar sounding names. The following is taken from the book: "English Bull Terriers – An Owner's Manual" which I wrote and give to people who buy puppies from us.
First and most important, English Bull Terriers are NOT the same breed as Staffordshire Bull Terriers and certainly have nothing in common with Pit Bulls - which are American Staffordshire Bull Terriers (Amstaffs) that have been bred specifically for fighting and have a long bloodline as fighters. The "New Bull Terrier" first appeared in its present form at a Birmingham (UK) show in May 1862. The first were bred from the now extinct breeds known as The Old English Bulldog and The Old English White Terrier, which produced another new breed (also now extinct) called The Bull and Terrier. This in turn was bred with the Dalmation and Spanish Pointer. The English Bull Terrier received full pedigree in the UK in 1875 and was recognized by the American Kennel Club in 1885. In 1887 The Bull Terrier Club was formed in the UK. Secondly, details about EBT temperament. W. Handel, German Police Dog Trainer, in his article, "The Psychological Basis of Temperament Testing," defines temperament as: "The sum total of all inborn and acquired physical and mental traits and talents which determines, forms and regulates behavior in the environment". The American Temperament Test Society, Inc. (ATTS), a not-for-profit organisation that promotes uniform temperament testing for dog breeds, gives the English Bull Terrier a pass rate of 92.1%, which is slightly higher than the score for Labrador Retrievers. The average for all breeds is 81.5% incidentally. This is how The Bull Terrier Club describes the breed: "By selective breeding the Bull Terrier has today developed into a companion animal and much loved family pet. He is extremely affectionate with people, and is particularly noted for a fondness towards young children. Nevertheless he is a strong and powerful animal, and it should always be remembered that he is a first and foremost a Terrier with a competitive spirit and may not always be tolerant of other animals, though many live together in a household quite happily with other pets." (The Bull Terrier Club, UK) I'd add that English Bull Terriers are friendly and outgoing dogs, with a "clownish" attitude about them - they seem to have a genuine sense of humour. Their physical strength is matched by their intelligence. They are fun and playful, but also make formidable guard dogs while their owners are away. "A muscular dog, it is considered, for its weight, the strongest of all dogs." (Britannica Concise Encyclopedia) #3
KhunOr
Senior Member Posted 2009-02-22 15:41:38
This is my personal observation and opinion of where to buy an EBT in Thailand. This piece first appeared in another thread a year ago, but I think it is appropriate to reproduce part of it here.
There are four choices of places to buy EBTs in Thailand: EBT Registered Kennel Club breeder Puppy farms Pet markets and shops Dog homes and shelters I strongly encourage anyone interested to buy a pedigree dog to buy them from a registered kennel that has a good reputation. How do you know if it has a good reputation? Well I hope that over time comments on this thread will act as a guide. I am also very much in favour of dog rescue shelters and other organizations that help sick animals, strays and unwanted dogs and try to find homes for them, usually for free. If you are not interested in pedigree (that is, parentage, health screened sire and dam, puppies that are guaranteed free from genetic and behavioural defects, properly raised and fed, lifelong support, higher probability of long healthy life, etc), then these organisations are a great place to find your companion. My gripe is about puppy farms and pet markets. Puppy farms are places (often unregistered) that churn out as many puppies as possible, as cheaply as possible, mostly for bulk sales (whole litters) to pet markets and shops. Some of these farms are actually registered kennels and so that's why I added the words "that has a good reputation" above. Pet markets, notably JJ in Bangkok, but also smaller ones found in every provincial city, are places where you'll find rows and rows of caged dogs in various conditions (that is the physical place and the animals themselves). The pet market vendors are rarely the breeders of the dogs they sell. Some of the kennels and all of the puppy farms that I have personally visited have a number of very undesirable characteristics in common. Here is a partial list: -Small houses in housing estates with very small yards and rarely any open grass space. -Yards that are crammed full of cages to house dogs of all ages in cramped conditions, often caged on top of one another. -Often several different breeds in the same farm, usually the most expensive/popular ones. -Nowhere for the adults or puppies to run and play, except for totally inadequate "runs" of 3 metre long concrete strips where they may be let out periodically. -Females used for breeding that are constantly caged (I've seen some with 3cm long toenails) and constantly bred from one cycle to the next until they are exhausted. -Inadequate nutrition for breeding mums and puppies, usually feeding only the cheapest kibble and white rice. -Inhumane treatment of breeding mums including the practice of starving the bitch before conception until her ribs and spine are clearly visible through taut skin, in the belief that this practice will lead to a bigger litter. -Puppies weaned off the mother's milk within a couple of weeks (if they can get any milk at all) so as to be able to sell the pups to the wholesalers at 3 or 4 weeks of age. -Reluctance or refusal to keep puppies longer than 4 weeks of age due to the cost of doing so. The cost of feeding puppies rises geometrically as they grow rapidly after four weeks, plus the fact that the longer they remain on the premises the more likely they are to contract diseases that require expensive treatment. So, that is a description of where those puppies you see in the pet markets typically come from. The way it works is like this: the breeders advertise in magazines in the hope of attracting buyers who will pay full price for a four week old puppy. In the case of English Bull Terriers this is typically 15 to 20,000 baht in Chiang Mai and 25 to 30,000 baht in Bangkok. If the pups are not sold by four weeks they are immediately sold to agents/pet market vendors at around 4,000 baht each. The agents/vendors ask no questions and are seemingly totally unconcerned about the way the puppies have been raised. For them, they are buying a product for 4,000 baht that they will sell for around 15,000 baht or higher and it is purely a matter of economics. They will spin tales to potential buyers about their products in the same way as any other market vendor in the hope of selling quickly. If the vendors are not the breeders, you cannot expect them to know much about the puppies they are selling except for basic details about the breed. What do you think happens to those animals when they reach an age that is considered too old to buy? Do you think the puppy farms take them back? You can answer that question. Another important consideration when buying from a pet market is that diseases are very easily transmitted in such environments from cage to cage, usually by customers touching animals in one cage and then in another. I've spoken with these vendors who tell me this is the #1 concern they have. The #2 concern is theft by the way, since some cages go unsupervised for long periods! My partner and I have been reduced to tears on some occasions after visiting disreputable kennels and puppy markets. You may feel sorry for the animals you see there too and that may be another consideration in buying them. But before you do that please bear in mind that you are only encouraging the practice by doing so. That cage will be filled with another puppy from a puppy mill as soon as you've bought yours. I believe there is only one sound choice: either buy a pedigree dog directly from a reputable kennel, or (if you are prepared to take pot luck) go to an animal rescue shelter instead. Please leave the puppy mills and markets alone. #4
KhunOr
Senior Member Posted 2009-02-22 15:50:29
We breed pedigree English Bull Terriers under the name North Thai Bull Terrier Kennel, in Chiang Mai. We are a Registered breeder with the Kennel Club of Thailand (Reg # KTCH F6594). Our aim is to promote the breed here in Thailand and of course to produce great looking dogs with equally good temperament. It is a hobby and a passion and we really love these dogs.
We welcome other breeders with similar aims and objectives. Our dogs run free in 1.5 rai of garden space and are fed on a diet of raw food (the real stuff: meat, offal, bones, veggies, eggs, goat's milk and pureed brown rice). They sleep indoors as part of the family. We try our best to find good homes. We only sell directly to the new owners (never to agents, shops or markets) and turn down people who do not have appropriate facilities (or attitude) to care properly for our dogs. The most important criterion is that the new home must have a secure area for the dogs to live and play in, such as a walled garden that they can't escape from (or stray dogs get into). We ask many questions about other pets in the home, etc., and offer advice about EBT tendencies around other animals. Our puppies are available for sale only after eight weeks. Our price at 18,000 baht includes lifelong support, vaccinations, inserted microchip registered to the new owner's name and address and a manual about caring for and training EBTs. We care about our babies and we want to help you to care for them too. I've attached some photos of our dogs, past and present. We have two male puppies available for sale now (named Tui and Solo in the photos). They are three months old and ready to go. Looking forward to hearing from you 
Attached Files
#5
Big Guns
Senior Member Posted 2009-02-24 17:25:25
Hi, I have a 22 month old Bull Terrier called Maggie. She is 25 Kg, very fit and active. She is very playful not agressive at all. She is not dog aggressive either. A dog on my estate trys to bite her and she will knock it over but never bite it.
A question I have for you K. Or is how to get rid of the red rash which Maggie often gets on her tummy and chest? Even better how can we prevent it? Have your dogs ever had this problem? Attached Files
#6
KhunOr
Senior Member Posted 2009-02-25 09:52:19
Hi Big Guns,
It is quite unusual for a two year old EBT to tolerate being bitten like that. Maggie must have a wonderful temperament. Congratulations and I hope it will last. She's the same weight as Cocoa, one of our bitches (first photo in the post above) incidentally. There is a definite propensity for the breed to suffer from skin irritations, particularly ones caused by mites and mosquitoes. Bullies are most susceptible up to the age of 18 months, after which they should develop some immunity. If caught early on these skin infections are easy and inexpensive to cure, but they must be stomped on quickly. Skin problems often appear to be allergy related and can be seasonal. Assuming that you have been to the vet and ruled out a more serious condition, my guess is that Maggie is suffering an allergic reaction and so now you need to figure ou what is causing it. One of our male dogs is susceptible to red rash on his tummy, but none of the others have ever had it. This enabled us to figure out the causes pretty quickly in his case. If Maggie is susceptible to other skin problems (if she scratches persistently, often gets spots, hot patches, hair loss, etc), that will tell you that she was probably born with a low immunity to skin infections and so her skin is likely to be overly sensitive. This is not serious in itself, but means that you must be very vigilent. With good nutrition and care her immunity will build up as she gets older. There's much more I could say on that, but let's leave it there for now. If she is not susceptible to other skin problems, then it is probably an allergy and you should be able to find the cause somewhere in her environment. If it was an allergy to something airborn (including insect bites), or to something ingested (there are many common plants that cause reactions), the rash would probably be all over her body. My guess is that she is rubbing her tummy on something. In the case of our male who gets this allergic rash occasionally, he is the only dog that loves to take a dip in the garden pond. He'll wade into the pond (just covering his tummy) ten times a day to cool off in hot weather. Sometimes he'll slither into the muddy parts and his tummy will be covered in mud. We found that he'd often get red rashes after that, probably caused by micro-organisms in the dirt. If Maggie gets her tummy soaked in puddles or pond water, or if she gets dirty from rubbing her tummy on the ground somewhere (Bullies love to crawl along dragging their tummies along the ground), that might be the cause. The 'cure' is to wash her tummy thoroughly with an anti-bacterial dog shampoo. When our male gets a rash we do this and keep him out of the water. The rash disappears within 24 hours. No vet visits or drugs required. Hope that helps. #7
Big Guns
Senior Member Posted 2009-02-25 21:53:55
Thanks K. Or. From reading what you wrote it would appear that Maggie's skin is overly sensitive. She does also get spots.
She is from good stock, her dad is Tank who has been featured in Shamu Shamu and her mum was also best of breed. I'm thinking about changing her diet to Royal Canin, fresh veg and a variety of fish/pork/chicken. Also I will keep her away from the grass as I think that might be a source of her tummy irritation as she likes to 'swim' in the grass. You mentioned the Bull Terrier having been bred from the Dalmation, Maggie is one of the few Bull Terriers I've seen who has lots of Dalmation spots on her skin. Any other advice you have would be appreciated. Cheers #8
davethailand
Titanium Member Posted 2009-02-25 22:03:13
Here's mine-
 (the shaved area's are due to stitches)  Daisy. (wife named her  )
Edited by davethailand, 2009-02-25 22:04:15. #9
jtp
Boating member Posted 2009-02-25 22:28:22
We breed pedigree English Bull Terriers under the name North Thai Bull Terrier Kennel, in Chiang Mai. We are a Registered breeder with the Kennel Club of Thailand (Reg # KTCH F6594). Our aim is to promote the breed here in Thailand and of course to produce great looking dogs with equally good temperament. It is a hobby and a passion and we really love these dogs. We welcome other breeders with similar aims and objectives. Our dogs run free in 1.5 rai of garden space and are fed on a diet of raw food (the real stuff: meat, offal, bones, veggies, eggs, goat's milk and pureed brown rice). They sleep indoors as part of the family. We try our best to find good homes. We only sell directly to the new owners (never to agents, shops or markets) and turn down people who do not have appropriate facilities (or attitude) to care properly for our dogs. The most important criterion is that the new home must have a secure area for the dogs to live and play in, such as a walled garden that they can't escape from (or stray dogs get into). We ask many questions about other pets in the home, etc., and offer advice about EBT tendencies around other animals. Our puppies are available for sale only after eight weeks. Our price at 18,000 baht includes lifelong support, vaccinations, inserted microchip registered to the new owner's name and address and a manual about caring for and training EBTs. We care about our babies and we want to help you to care for them too. I've attached some photos of our dogs, past and present. We have two male puppies available for sale now (named Tui and Solo in the photos). They are three months old and ready to go. Looking forward to hearing from you Your Bullies are sooo beautiful!!Are they the same type of Bull terrier we see in Australia?They look very similar.I would imagine the bloodlines may well have been imported to Australia from England.Keep up the good work,i couldn't imagine a better hobby then breeding Bullies. 
#10
KhunOr
Senior Member Posted 2009-02-27 17:01:25
Hi Big Guns,
I have sent you a PM with info about how to tackle Maggie's skin problem with diet changes and a supplement. I've also listed foods to avoid. do let us know how maggie gets on. Hi Tritex, Thanks! As bullies are not indigenous to Oz, yes the ones bred there today were originally brought from Old Blighty. Essentially they are the same as the ones here, but they bark with a funny accent  Yep, we luuuuuuuuuv our Bullies. #11
thaigerd
Platinum Member Posted 2009-02-27 17:50:13
Khun Or,
you've got some great looking dogs! Gerd #12
WhiteTrash
Member Posted 2009-03-01 18:31:27
I have an EBT she is 9 months and has quite a few black spots on her belly and the iside of her hind legs, is this a sign of bad breeding or normal for a bully?
#13
soolyhuey1
Newbie Posted 2009-03-01 19:25:25
Hello Kuhn Or and fellow EBT owners, I'm an Australian bloke currently looking for a female Bully to take back to Indonesia as a family pet for my home in Sumatra. I'm leaving from Phuket on March 10 via boat and would love to take a new puppy with me. I'm after a mini or mini cross, any colour or markings. Hope you guys can help. Regards, Sooly, Captain, M.V. Huey-1
#14
KhunOr
Senior Member Posted 2009-03-01 21:37:09
I have an EBT she is 9 months and has quite a few black spots on her belly and the iside of her hind legs, is this a sign of bad breeding or normal for a bully? Hi there, Worry not. The black spots are there due to the fact that there's some Dalmation in the bloodline (see my first post above). Sometimes you cannot see any spots on the body if the dog has thick fur. The spots are on the skin itself, not colourings on the fur. You would get a shock if you ever had to shave that fur off (for surgery for example). As the fur on the belly and legs can be quite thin, that's why we tend to see the spots there. #15
KhunOr
Senior Member Posted 2009-03-01 21:50:25
Hello Kuhn Or and fellow EBT owners, I'm an Australian bloke currently looking for a female Bully to take back to Indonesia as a family pet for my home in Sumatra. I'm leaving from Phuket on March 10 via boat and would love to take a new puppy with me. I'm after a mini or mini cross, any colour or markings. Hope you guys can help. Regards, Sooly, Captain, M.V. Huey-1 Hi Capt Sooly, I don't know any breeders of mini EBTs, sorry. Perhaps someone will chip in with info for you. What do you mean by a mini cross? A cross with what? Since I'm often asked the question, FYI I'd like to point out to those who are not already aware, that mini-EBTs are actually a separate breed from standard EBTs. Some folk try to pass off the small (runts) of a standard EBT litter as minis, but they are not. And I would never condone the inter-breeding of the two. #16
JimmyTheMook
Super Member Posted 2009-03-01 21:55:22
are there any interesting cross breeds using this dog ?
making it a bit more laid back and people friendly ? Edited by JimmyTheMook, 2009-03-01 21:57:19. #17
KhunOr
Senior Member Posted 2009-03-01 22:16:53
are there any interesting cross breeds using this dog ? making it a bit more laid back and people friendly ? I don't know what you are talking about Jimmy. EBTs are extremely people friendly and with a temperament score higher than Labrador Retrievers. Perhaps you are confusing them with a similar sounding different breed (as so many people do). #18
JimmyTheMook
Super Member Posted 2009-03-02 15:32:15
are there any interesting cross breeds using this dog ? making it a bit more laid back and people friendly ? I don't know what you are talking about Jimmy. EBTs are extremely people friendly and with a temperament score higher than Labrador Retrievers. Perhaps you are confusing them with a similar sounding different breed (as so many people do). Nope , I am quite familiar with this breed. Are there any interesting cross breeds ? #19
Big Guns
Senior Member Posted 2009-03-02 17:52:20
I completely agree with Khun Or English Bull Terriers are very friendly towards people. No breeder of pedigree dogs is going to be focusing on cross breeds as it defeats the purpose.
Khun Or, I've changed Maggie's diet, I've replaced rice with Hills dry food combined with fresh veg, pork/chicken/fish and the fish oil capsules. The science of the raw food diet looks convincing. I was put off by the fact that Maggie's stomach can be a bit sensitive and I didn't fancy any 'presents' in the sitting room. Cheers #20
KhunOr
Senior Member Posted 2009-03-02 23:15:10
Just to let you know that the two puppies that I mentioned a week ago have been ordered already. One is going to a new home in the depths of Isaan on Wednesday and the other will fly south on Friday, emigrating to another country. We are going to miss these little buddies alot, but we are glad to have found great owners who we know will love them.
Today a new bitch (an extremely beautiful girl that we're very excited about) came into season and we are inviting advance orders now before we breed her. Please PM me for more information if you might be interested. We are aware that times are tough and will not produce another litter unless we are sure there is demand. #21
KhunOr
Senior Member Posted 2009-03-02 23:40:18
Khun Or, I've changed Maggie's diet, I've replaced rice with Hills dry food combined with fresh veg, pork/chicken/fish and the fish oil capsules. The science of the raw food diet looks convincing. I was put off by the fact that Maggie's stomach can be a bit sensitive and I didn't fancy any 'presents' in the sitting room. Cheers Methinks that Maggie is going to love that raw meat, etc and that her tummy won't be sensitive any more. I'll share a true story with you. When I bought my first Bull Terrier years ago, we fed him for the first six months on "good quality" dry pet food together with cooked meats and a bit of cooked veg. It was always beautifully prepared and presented by my partner. Then one day when I was left alone for a week and was responsible for feeding the dogs myself I thought: "sod this, I'm not going to spend hours cooking for the dogs like it was a hotel" and instead I chucked some raw meat into his bowl. Well, he walked up to it and sniffed it and then walked away. A moment later he returned and licked it and ate a bit. What happened next was bizarre and one of the funniest moments (there have been many) of my career with Bullies. He began to race around the house from room to room, jumping on and off furniture and beds like he was totally possessed. Several minutes later he returned to his bowl and wolfed the meat down and then ran about wagging his tail. I swear this is exactly what happened. It was if he was sooooo grateful that finally we had realised that he is a DOG and that this is the kind of chow that he needs. We've fed raw food to all our dogs ever since. Good luck with Maggie. Be sure to puree the veggies (dogs can't digest veggies whole). #22
KhunOr
Senior Member Posted 2009-03-05 15:32:31
are there any interesting cross breeds using this dog ? I can't imagine why you'd want a cross breed, but the following would certainly be interesting: Bull Terrier and Shitzu = Bullshitz: a gregarious and unreliable breed Terrier and Bulldog = Terribull: a dog that makes awful mistakes
#23
Lozfranco
Advanced Member Posted 2009-03-05 21:04:29
Hi Khun Or,
Do you know how many years this breed has been in Thailand and who brought the first mating couple here? I would be very interested to learn the history of EBTs in Thailand, if you could help. Thanks #24
KhunOr
Senior Member Posted 2009-03-09 13:05:40
Hi Khun Or, Do you know how many years this breed has been in Thailand and who brought the first mating couple here? I would be very interested to learn the history of EBTs in Thailand, if you could help. Thanks Hi Loz, I have replied to your PM on this and other matters regarding the downsides of buying a puppy at 4 weeks of age. Khun Or #25
WhiteTrash
Member Posted 2009-03-11 17:05:43
What's a good age to have my dog spayed? she is 9 months and is having her first heat, what exactly is involved in having her spayed?
|
Sponsored by: |
