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[MaiDong]

Mosha, on 2009-04-06 14:41:25, said:

Murray's depth of knowledge was amazing, no matter which motor sport he was talking about. He never sat down during a race, doing all the commentating on his feet.

Murray Walker now hosts a 5 minute program on BBCi just rounding up his views on the race, another reason to ditch ESPNStars coverage in favour of soemthing professional

[rixalex]

MaiDong, on 2009-04-06 15:01:54, said:

This weekend I've watched Free Practice 1,2 & 3(from the BBC's interactive coverage) from beginning to end(approx, 90 minutes per program), this is excellent coverage with a cycle of presenters including Anthony Davidson who is whitty, insightful & experienced and who has also worked with Jenson Button quite closely so he knows what's going on in the BrawnGP team.

I watched a 2 hour program of qualifying(also from the BBC's coverage)

I then watched a 3 hour program of the actual race plus build-up and apart from Eddie Jordan being a bit of a twat(he'll be removed soon I think) the rest of the BBC team is spot on,

Are you in Thailand? As i understand it, BBC video on the internet is not available to those of us here. Or am i wrong?

[MaiDong]

rixalex, on 2009-04-06 23:32:55, said:

MaiDong, on 2009-04-06 15:01:54, said:

This weekend I've watched Free Practice 1,2 & 3(from the BBC's interactive coverage) from beginning to end(approx, 90 minutes per program), this is excellent coverage with a cycle of presenters including Anthony Davidson who is whitty, insightful & experienced and who has also worked with Jenson Button quite closely so he knows what's going on in the BrawnGP team.

I watched a 2 hour program of qualifying(also from the BBC's coverage)

I then watched a 3 hour program of the actual race plus build-up and apart from Eddie Jordan being a bit of a twat(he'll be removed soon I think) the rest of the BBC team is spot on,

Are you in Thailand? As i understand it, BBC video on the internet is not available to those of us here. Or am i wrong?

[rixalex]

MaiDong, on 2009-04-07 03:43:42, said:

rixalex, on 2009-04-06 23:32:55, said:

MaiDong, on 2009-04-06 15:01:54, said:

This weekend I've watched Free Practice 1,2 & 3(from the BBC's interactive coverage) from beginning to end(approx, 90 minutes per program), this is excellent coverage with a cycle of presenters including Anthony Davidson who is whitty, insightful & experienced and who has also worked with Jenson Button quite closely so he knows what's going on in the BrawnGP team.

I watched a 2 hour program of qualifying(also from the BBC's coverage)

I then watched a 3 hour program of the actual race plus build-up and apart from Eddie Jordan being a bit of a twat(he'll be removed soon I think) the rest of the BBC team is spot on,

Are you in Thailand? As i understand it, BBC video on the internet is not available to those of us here. Or am i wrong?

Any chance of providing a more detailed answer than a smilie? Every time i try to use BBCi Player i get a message that says "sorry, not available in your area" - or something like that.

[ignis]

Just wondered how BBC can show F1? they lost the license

If you want to watch Uk TV then you can via the Australian site
http://www.uktv.com.au/home/

[rixalex]

ignis, on 2009-04-07 11:54:54, said:

Just wondered how BBC can show F1? they lost the license

Yes, but didn't they win it back recently?

[QED]

rixalex, on 2009-04-07 13:35:59, said:

ignis, on 2009-04-07 11:54:54, said:

Just wondered how BBC can show F1? they lost the license

Yes, but didn't they win it back recently?

Yes they did. Don't know how long for though, certainly this season.

[ignis]

QED, on 2009-04-07 12:10:31, said:

rixalex, on 2009-04-07 13:35:59, said:

ignis, on 2009-04-07 11:54:54, said:

Just wondered how BBC can show F1? they lost the license

Yes, but didn't they win it back recently?

Yes they did. Don't know how long for though, certainly this season.

Had no idea

So that explains why the 1st 2 races started at 5pm......... All about ratings and Prime time TV

[F1fanatic]

wackysleet, on 2009-04-03 18:41:05, said:

rixalex, on 2009-04-03 18:33:01, said:

wackysleet, on 2009-04-03 19:23:45, said:

I dont disagree with what your saying and he was there at the finish, but starting from the back of the grid helped him no end after the carnage at the first corner and contrary to rixalex opinion that I'm a detractor of Hamiltons performance is crap, I'm pointing out that all drivers need a certain amount of luck and in Australia it was Hamiltons turn , not a problem, I don't like the way he and the team lied about Trulli.

Agreed, especially the bit underlined.

It's no excuse, but i can understand how a young driver could place his trust in a senior team member and simply follow his advice.

Anyway, he's learnt a lesson and hopefully in the future he will think and speak for himself.

Hopefully he will, he's too talented to have to stoop to the kind of tricks that Shumacher got up to, especially that b------t when he parked his car on the corner to prevent anyone beating his practice time at Monaco not to mention Damien Hill and Villenueve?. winning is important just don't sell your own integrity and self respect to achieve it.

Are you mad??

Hamilton LIED and was caught doing so!! Most paddock members (according to the forums) think that poor old Dave Ryan took the blame for a decision made far higher up, and Hamilton was only too happy to acquiesce.

Do you honestly think he is stupid enough to just do whatever someone else says? If they told him to jump off a cliff would he do it?

Let us not forget that Hamilton saw the stewards more than an hour after the end of the race (it was hardly in the heat of the moment!) In fact in the heat of the moment he told reporters that he was told to let Trulli past, and he did!

Please also bear in mind that he LIED at the second hearing knowing full well that it would mean that poor old Trulli would lose all of his points for the race! He lost his integrity and self respect at this point.

Schumacher made mistakes (and I'm willing to argue any of them apart from Monaco 2006!), but he was never stupid enough to lie after he had admitted the truth to a journalist!

All of this aside, wasn't Sepang a great race (albeit short!).

Edited by F1fanatic, 2009-04-07 22:34:38.

[F1fanatic]

ignis, on 2009-04-07 15:19:51, said:

QED, on 2009-04-07 12:10:31, said:

rixalex, on 2009-04-07 13:35:59, said:

ignis, on 2009-04-07 11:54:54, said:

Just wondered how BBC can show F1? they lost the license

Yes, but didn't they win it back recently?

Yes they did. Don't know how long for though, certainly this season.

Had no idea

So that explains why the 1st 2 races started at 5pm......... All about ratings and Prime time TV

The start time of the Asian races were changed to accommodate European viewers.

After the fiasco of Sepang (suprise, suprise torrential rain at that time of day and then too dark to continue), they are now re-considering the start time of the Malaysian race!

A friend in England tells me that the BBC coverage is better only in so far as there are no adverts.

Got to be good - on ESPN (I think), we missed out on so many fights for position because of the adverts!

[wackysleet]

F1fanatic, on 2009-04-07 22:11:09, said:

wackysleet, on 2009-04-03 18:41:05, said:

rixalex, on 2009-04-03 18:33:01, said:

wackysleet, on 2009-04-03 19:23:45, said:

I dont disagree with what your saying and he was there at the finish, but starting from the back of the grid helped him no end after the carnage at the first corner and contrary to rixalex opinion that I'm a detractor of Hamiltons performance is crap, I'm pointing out that all drivers need a certain amount of luck and in Australia it was Hamiltons turn , not a problem, I don't like the way he and the team lied about Trulli.

Agreed, especially the bit underlined.

It's no excuse, but i can understand how a young driver could place his trust in a senior team member and simply follow his advice.

Anyway, he's learnt a lesson and hopefully in the future he will think and speak for himself.

Hopefully he will, he's too talented to have to stoop to the kind of tricks that Shumacher got up to, especially that b------t when he parked his car on the corner to prevent anyone beating his practice time at Monaco not to mention Damien Hill and Villenueve?. winning is important just don't sell your own integrity and self respect to achieve it.

Are you mad??

Hamilton LIED and was caught doing so!! Most paddock members (according to the forums) think that poor old Dave Ryan took the blame for a decision made far higher up, and Hamilton was only too happy to acquiesce.

Do you honestly think he is stupid enough to just do whatever someone else says? If they told him to jump off a cliff would he do it?

Let us not forget that Hamilton saw the stewards more than an hour after the end of the race (it was hardly in the heat of the moment!) In fact in the heat of the moment he told reporters that he was told to let Trulli past, and he did!

Please also bear in mind that he LIED at the second hearing knowing full well that it would mean that poor old Trulli would lose all of his points for the race!

Schumacher made mistakes (and I'm willing to argue any of them apart from Monaco 2006!), but he was never stupid enough to lie after he had admitted the truth to a journalist!

All of this aside, wasn't Sepang a great race (albeit short!).

Actuall I think we were all agreed that Hamilton is a liar, but like us you do not have access to the real truth of what went on, so whats your point?, and as for the other one, Shumacher, you must be the only person around that thinks he didn't try to run Hill and Villenueve off the road.

[F1fanatic]

Access to the real truth of what? Please refer to my previous post as to why I think his lies were unforgiveable.

MS/D Hill - Please remember that at that time it was hardly unknown. Remember Senna/Prost? Hill never complained about it until the MS/JV debacle.

MS/JV - No doubt deliberate. He had the right idea in view of JV's unfortunate comments and life afterwards! (Joking!)

[wackysleet]

F1fanatic, on 2009-04-07 23:26:24, said:

Access to the real truth of what? Please refer to my previous post as to why I think his lies were unforgiveable.

MS/D Hill - Please remember that at that time it was hardly unknown. Remember Senna/Prost? Hill never complained about it until the MS/JV debacle.

MS/JV - No doubt deliberate. He had the right idea in view of JV's unfortunate comments and life afterwards! (Joking!)

With regards to Damien, are you saying that as it had happened on several other occassions and very little was done about it then it's ok, as far as Villenueve is concerned if M/S had a problem with him talk off the track rather than take action that could have killed someone, but again reading your first post you imply that you accept the Monaco debacle but would argue the other incidents, now read your last post, is this a case of changing horses midstream, remember the two drivers in question were both on the verge of taking the championship.
Senna was another one, brilliant driver in what was arguably the best car of the day but would never allow Honda to pick the second driver unless he was deemed by Senna not to be so talented, S/Prost just look at the coverage of the time, the race they ran each other off the track did not do the sport or the fans any favours, people pay good money to see proper racing not cheats.

[rixalex]

F1fanatic, on 2009-04-07 23:11:09, said:

Do you honestly think he is stupid enough to just do whatever someone else says? If they told him to jump off a cliff would he do it?

I don't think it's about being stupid, i think it's about the fact that his job is to race a car. He does that job and when he steps out of the car, there are people who are employed and have a lot of expertise (and certainly a lot more than Lewis) in dealing with the other aspects of racing. He places himself in their hands and i think up until recently, had implicit trust in the team and especially Ron Dennis.

[rixalex]

ignis, on 2009-04-07 16:19:51, said:

QED, on 2009-04-07 12:10:31, said:

rixalex, on 2009-04-07 13:35:59, said:

ignis, on 2009-04-07 11:54:54, said:

Just wondered how BBC can show F1? they lost the license

Yes, but didn't they win it back recently?

Yes they did. Don't know how long for though, certainly this season.

Had no idea

So that explains why the 1st 2 races started at 5pm......... All about ratings and Prime time TV

F1 is broadcast to millions of people in hundreds of different countries. Why do you think the BBC has the clout to dictate race time? After all, when the BBC had it before they didn't.

You are right about the ratings though. The change of time was obviously done for the benefit of Europe as a whole.

[rixalex]

wackysleet, on 2009-04-08 01:49:05, said:

With regards to Damien, are you saying that as it had happened on several other occassions and very little was done about it then it's ok,

That's how i read it too. The fact that Schumey's underhand move decided a Championship makes it all the more amazing that no action was taken. Still, going by how the FIA seem to work these days - changing the results of races days after they have finished - perhaps they could go back and review all race results?

[wackysleet]

F1 is broadcast to millions of people in hundreds of different countries. Why do you think the BBC has the clout to dictate race time? After all, when the BBC had it before they didn't.

You are right about the ratings though. The change of time was obviously done for the benefit of Europe as a whole.

And old Bernie in particular but having said that Rixalex do you really believe that the BBC could get the time of the race altered, more likely that Bernie took the view that there are some very very large audiences in the vacinity os Malaysia that could be even more profitable to him than Europe as a whole, why not move the races that are likely to suffer torrential storms as in Asia to times of the season when there will be less precipitation, those of us living in S.E.Asia know full well about rain.

[rixalex]

wackysleet, on 2009-04-08 15:46:40, said:

Rixalex do you really believe that the BBC could get the time of the race altered,

Wackysleet mate, i was saying the opposite.

[F1fanatic]

rixalex, on 2009-04-08 14:37:53, said:

wackysleet, on 2009-04-08 01:49:05, said:

With regards to Damien, are you saying that as it had happened on several other occassions and very little was done about it then it's ok,

That's how i read it too. The fact that Schumey's underhand move decided a Championship makes it all the more amazing that no action was taken. Still, going by how the FIA seem to work these days - changing the results of races days after they have finished - perhaps they could go back and review all race results?

No action was taken because at the time it wasn't the unforgivable sin that it is now. It certainly wasn't the first time it had happened! Plus, IIRC it wasn't entirely clear whether or not it was deliberate - it certainly couldn't be proved. As I said in an earlier post, even Damon didn't complain until Jerez '97 (IIRC) - by then opinions had changed about what was acceptable.

Wackysleet - Jerez '97? you're right - I was wrong to say I'd defend what happened. Unfortunately I think JV is a waste of space so find it hard to summon up any moral outrage about the incident. MS lost the race and all of his points for the season. What more could the FIA do?

MS was a GREAT racer, but he pushed things to the limit of acceptability and, in the heat of the moment, sometimes beyond in his determination to win.

I too think its unfortunate that the FIA didn't bother to check all the facts before accepting Hamilton and Maclaren's lies and punishing Trulli. Hardly evidence of a conspiracy against Hamilton which so many people are claiming!

[wackysleet]

rixalex, on 2009-04-08 15:36:26, said:

wackysleet, on 2009-04-08 15:46:40, said:

Rixalex do you really believe that the BBC could get the time of the race altered,

Wackysleet mate, i was saying the opposite.

Sorry mate my apologies, miss read the post, another alzheimers moment.

[wackysleet]

F1fanatic, on 2009-04-08 15:47:01, said:

rixalex, on 2009-04-08 14:37:53, said:

wackysleet, on 2009-04-08 01:49:05, said:

With regards to Damien, are you saying that as it had happened on several other occassions and very little was done about it then it's ok,

That's how i read it too. The fact that Schumey's underhand move decided a Championship makes it all the more amazing that no action was taken. Still, going by how the FIA seem to work these days - changing the results of races days after they have finished - perhaps they could go back and review all race results?

No action was taken because at the time it wasn't the unforgivable sin that it is now. It certainly wasn't the first time it had happened! Plus, IIRC it wasn't entirely clear whether or not it was deliberate - it certainly couldn't be proved. As I said in an earlier post, even Damon didn't complain until Jerez '97 (IIRC) - by then opinions had changed about what was acceptable.

Wackysleet - Jerez '97? you're right - I was wrong to say I'd defend what happened. Unfortunately I think JV is a waste of space so find it hard to summon up any moral outrage about the incident. MS lost the race and all of his points for the season. What more could the FIA do?

MS was a GREAT racer, but he pushed things to the limit of acceptability and, in the heat of the moment, sometimes beyond in his determination to win.

I too think its unfortunate that the FIA didn't bother to check all the facts before accepting Hamilton and Maclaren's lies and punishing Trulli. Hardly evidence of a conspiracy against Hamilton which so many people are claiming!

F1fanatic, my view is lets sort out the wrongdoers and enjoy the sport we love, I am a little concerned about Hamiltons emerging sense of arrogance now that he doen't have Ron Denis as his mentor.

[rixalex]

F1fanatic, on 2009-04-08 16:47:01, said:

As I said in an earlier post, even Damon didn't complain until Jerez '97 (IIRC) - by then opinions had changed about what was acceptable.

I personally don't read anything into the fact that Damon didn't complain.

Damon Hill has always been a quiet, reserved gentleman and i think the incident was so blatantly unfair and unsportsmanly, it didn't really require any comment from him. He gracefully decided to hold his tongue and let the pictures do the talking - and that they did.

Only deluded Schuey fans dispute the evidence of the onboard camera which clearly showed him suddenly turning sharply for no apparent reason - that is apart from the obvious reason!

[onzestan]

Just a few thoughts on the F1 season so far in view of what some posters on this topic have expressed.
This is entirely my point of view so feel free to disagree.

Martin Whitmarsh found it necessary to bring Schumacher in to his defence of Hamilton, as have different posters here.

Contrary to what has been said, Michael Schumacher and or his behaviour on and of the racetracks has absolutely no bearing on Hamilton's behaviour.
Hamilton lied to the stewards, and if this was on orders or not is not important. It shows a lot about his integrity as a person.

Those of you that claim that the car makes little or no difference, just look at the final standings of season 2008.
Jenson Button 3 points - Rubens Barrichello 11 points, total 14 points.

How many points do they have now after 1 and a half race, right 25 points. Case closed.

After all what has happened with McLaren in the last few years, and now this I hope the F1 throws the book at them, and I'm not talking about monetary fines.

Just my 2 cents.
No malice intended.

Onzestan

Edited by onzestan, 2009-04-11 12:03:01.

[rixalex]

onzestan, on 2009-04-11 13:01:16, said:

Just a few thoughts on the F1 season so far in view of what some posters on this topic have expressed.
This is entirely my point of view so feel free to disagree.

Martin Whitmarsh found it necessary to bring Schumacher in to his defence of Hamilton, as have different posters here.

Contrary to what has been said, Michael Schumacher and or his behaviour on and of the racetracks has absolutely no bearing on Hamilton's behaviour.
Hamilton lied to the stewards, and if this was on orders or not is not important. It shows a lot about his integrity as a person.

Those of you that claim that the car makes little or no difference, just look at the final standings of season 2008.
Jenson Button 3 points - Rubens Barrichello 11 points, total 14 points.

How many points do they have now after 1 and a half race, right 25 points. Case closed.

After all what has happened with McLaren in the last few years, and now this I hope the F1 throws the book at them, and I'm not talking about monetary fines.

Just my 2 cents.
No malice intended.

Onzestan

I don't think anything that Schumacher did serves in any way as a defence for what Lewis has done, but i think it's natural when someone has broken the rules to look at past examples and how they were dealt with. Of course the examples are very different in nature but they do concern a lack of sportsmanship and a lack of ethics.

When Schumacher parked his car up in the middle of the track in Monaco during qualifying and said that it stalled due to a mysterious problem with his car, despite telemetry saying otherwise, did he lie to the FIA as Hamilton has done? I think yes but maybe it's hard to prove - or maybe because he was Schumacher and he was in a Ferrari the FIA didn't want to make a meal out of it.

As far as the car versus driver argument goes - of course the car has a great bearing on it - can't believe anyone would say otherwise. The best guage of skill in a driver is to compare them with their team-mate.

[onzestan]

rixalex, on 2009-04-11 12:38:52, said:

I don't think anything that Schumacher did serves in any way as a defence for what Lewis has done, but i think it's natural when someone has broken the rules to look at past examples and how they were dealt with. Of course the examples are very different in nature but they do concern a lack of sportsmanship and a lack of ethics.

When Schumacher parked his car up in the middle of the track in Monaco during qualifying and said that it stalled due to a mysterious problem with his car, despite telemetry saying otherwise, did he lie to the FIA as Hamilton has done? I think yes but maybe it's hard to prove - or maybe because he was Schumacher and he was in a Ferrari the FIA didn't want to make a meal out of it.

As far as the car versus driver argument goes - of course the car has a great bearing on it - can't believe anyone would say otherwise. The best guage of skill in a driver is to compare them with their team-mate.

Here you go again looking for excuses for Hamilton. Is this maybe because he's british?
He has lied repeatedly to the stewards and you don't have to believe me, just read the articles on formula1.com.
As to your other point to compare teammates is invalid if team orders have been issued, of which McLaren (just ask David Coulthard)has been guilty of repeatedly, as has Ferrari in the Schumacher era.
And no I'm not a Schumacher fan, far from it, but again he has absolutely nothing to do with the integrity of Lewis Hamilton.
And I don't believe one minute that he's sorry for what he did, he's sorry for having been caught.

End of my rant.

No malice intended

Onzestan