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[barhopper]

jfchandler, on 2009-12-07 00:21:05, said:

Barhopper, thanks for the referral.. I'm assuming you're pointing to this prior post of yours...re Nationwide UK

Quote

Types of account

FlexAccount - offers customers a Visa debit card with a chequebook, cheque guarantee and overdraft facilities or a cash card with a chequebook.

Cash Card Account - offers customers a cash card without a chequebook, Visa debit card, cheque guarantee or overdraft facility.

The Flex/Debit Card is issued by Visa and the Cash card is Issued by Cirrus

The big difference when withdrawing cash from the two cards at an ATM abroad is initially, only Visa debit card transactions will have a fee applied. Your cash card is run by a different provider(Cirrus) and is only available for withdrawing cash (it does not have facilities to make purchases online or at retailers). The Cash Card Account is a Basic Bank Account and is available/suitable for customers who meet the Basic Bank Account criteria.

Unfortunately, at least for me, it's not clear on the subject of fees, and the distinction between the 1% VISA fee charged by the card networks and the 150 baht fee charged by the Thai banks...

The red card doesn't charge the 1% foreign transaction fee. But the blue VISA debit does...

But, what about both cards in terms of the 150 baht Thai banks fee, both at Bank of Ayudhya and other Thai banks???

I wouldn't know about the Cirrus issued card as i don't have one,i only have the Blue Visa Debit.But in regards to the 150 Baht fee well that's up to the bank/ATM in Thailand,as i thought you already know it's them that is charging the 150 Baht fee and nothing to do with the card issuing bank in your home country.

[jfchandler]

Sorry, you're missing the point and not correct re the 150 baht fee....

Posters earlier in this thread have been talking about being able to use their Nationwide cards at Bank of Ayudhya ATMs without getting charged the 150 baht fee. But those posters have been sparse on details. Some German bank card holders also claim to be avoiding the fee at BofA.

It would be very useful to know, for Nationwide UK card holders who are NOT getting charged the 150 baht fee at Bank of Ayudhya, are you using the blue card, the red card, or both to get NO 150 baht fee???

And what about those same Nationwide cards at other Thai banks, in terms of the 150 baht fee??? Charged or not?

Yes, it is the Thai banks that are assessing the 150 baht fee. But for unknown reasons, particularly at BofA based on posts here, some cards seem to be avoiding it. I'm trying to understand and establish some pattern of what banks and what kind of cards are getting that break.

[barhopper]

jfchandler, on 2009-12-07 01:59:39, said:

Sorry, you're missing the point and not correct re the 150 baht fee....

Posters earlier in this thread have been talking about being able to use their Nationwide cards at Bank of Ayudhya ATMs without getting charged the 150 baht fee. But those posters have been sparse on details. Some German bank card holders also claim to be avoiding the fee at BofA.

It would be very useful to know, for Nationwide UK card holders who are NOT getting charged the 150 baht fee at Bank of Ayudhya, are you using the blue card, the red card, or both to get NO 150 baht fee???

And what about those same Nationwide cards at other Thai banks, in terms of the 150 baht fee??? Charged or not?

Yes, it is the Thai banks that are assessing the 150 baht fee. But for unknown reasons, particularly at BofA based on posts here, some cards seem to be avoiding it. I'm trying to understand and establish some pattern of what banks and what kind of cards are getting that break.

Ok as i said in my previous post i can only give my experience on using the Blue Nationwide Visa debit card(as i don't have the Red/Purple Cirrus based Nationwide Cash card).When i was last in Los(Pattaya) 6 weeks ago i did not get charged the fee at the ATM at the Bank of Ayudhya exchanges(no fee whatsoever at the Thai end ) however Nationwide deducted 0.84% from the Exchange rate(done through Visa http://www.visaeurop...ulator/main.jsp The fee now is 1% as stated on the Nationwide BS Website.In regards to other banks(ATM's) i didn't try any as i had read on here and various Thai Forums that the 150 baht was being incurred on Foreign issued Cards,however i did get a cash advance from a Kasikorn Money exchange booth on Soi Buakaow  in Pattaya in which i had to show my passport and fill out a form stating where i was residing along with my signature.I withdrew 10K Cash with no charges(from the Thai end) but when i checked my online banking statement a few days later i had incurred the 0.84% deduction from Visa in the exchange rate exactly the same as you would if you had withdrawn the cash from an ATM(which still worked out better than cash).So i felt that apart from using the Ayudhya ATM's which had no 150 ATM fee that the way forward in getting cash from any other banks/money exchange booths was doing an over the counter withdrawal thus avoiding the ATM 150 Baht charges.In saying that i never tried getting a cash advance over the counter in any of the other Banks/exchanges so don't have first hand knowledge of any other Banks/Money exchanges accepting this practice,apart from reading posts on many Thai forums that some BM's have had success in Various banks/exchanges in Thailand(thus avoiding the 150 baht charge) and some BM's have posted as being told by banking tellers to use the ATM affiliated to the Bank.

[Captain Haddock]

I have just tried to use my blue visa debit card from Nationwide in Thung Song, NST, south Thailand, and while the 2 ATMs I used next to the Bank of Ayutaya both told me there would be a fee charged of 0.00 baht, neither ATM would give me any money, telling me to check my bank. So a fee of zero would be charged (!) if I could get my money, but I guess (being nice here) that it's a bank holiday today and there's no cash left in the machines!

Until tomorrow...

[BIGTOE3]

jfchandler, on 2009-12-06 17:59:39, said:

Sorry, you're missing the point and not correct re the 150 baht fee....

Posters earlier in this thread have been talking about being able to use their Nationwide cards at Bank of Ayudhya ATMs without getting charged the 150 baht fee. But those posters have been sparse on details. Some German bank card holders also claim to be avoiding the fee at BofA.

It would be very useful to know, for Nationwide UK card holders who are NOT getting charged the 150 baht fee at Bank of Ayudhya, are you using the blue card, the red card, or both to get NO 150 baht fee???

And what about those same Nationwide cards at other Thai banks, in terms of the 150 baht fee??? Charged or not?

Yes, it is the Thai banks that are assessing the 150 baht fee. But for unknown reasons, particularly at BofA based on posts here, some cards seem to be avoiding it. I'm trying to understand and establish some pattern of what banks and what kind of cards are getting that break.

No 150 BT fee at all using Bank of Ayudhya with Red Cirus Nationwide account and only the 1% Visa charge using the  Blue Visa Nationwide Card but again NO 150 BT fee.

The 150 BT FEE is being charged at the SCB bank using the Blue Visa card - will check if being charged using the Red Cirus card and report back.

Hope this clears it up.

BT

Edited by BIGTOE3, 2009-12-07 18:13:29.

[jfchandler]

Thanks BT.... Very grateful for the clear, concise answer....

That's really interesting.... using the same Nationwide UK VISA debit card at Ayudhya draws no 150 baht fee, but using the same Nationwide card at Siam Commercial draws the 150 baht fee.

I'm assuming your accounts/cards mentioned here are denominated in pounds???

[BIGTOE3]

jfchandler, on 2009-12-07 12:43:23, said:

Thanks BT.... Very grateful for the clear, concise answer....

That's really interesting.... using the same Nationwide UK VISA debit card at Ayudhya draws no 150 baht fee, but using the same Nationwide card at Siam Commercial draws the 150 baht fee.

I'm assuming your accounts/cards mentioned here are denominated in pounds???

JF not sure what you mean sorry " denominated in pounds???"  ?????

BT

[jfchandler]

Sorry, denominated means....when you have funds in your home account, they are held in what currency... pounds or Euros???

BofA handles some MC logo debit cards differently if the accounts are denominated in pounds or Euros....not the same as they handle all other currency type accounts.

And yes, I know yours is a VISA, not MC account.

BIGTOE3, on 2009-12-08 00:31:26, said:

jfchandler, on 2009-12-07 12:43:23, said:

Thanks BT.... Very grateful for the clear, concise answer....

That's really interesting.... using the same Nationwide UK VISA debit card at Ayudhya draws no 150 baht fee, but using the same Nationwide card at Siam Commercial draws the 150 baht fee.

I'm assuming your accounts/cards mentioned here are denominated in pounds???

JF not sure what you mean sorry " denominated in pounds???"  ?????

BT

[BIGTOE3]

JF my accounts are in UK pounds as account in Scotland NOT in Euro currency Zone...

BT    PS still not been yet to test SCB with red cirus card.

jfchandler, on 2009-12-07 17:43:45, said:

Sorry, denominated means....when you have funds in your home account, they are held in what currency... pounds or Euros???

BofA handles some MC logo debit cards differently if the accounts are denominated in pounds or Euros....not the same as they handle all other currency type accounts.

And yes, I know yours is a VISA, not MC account.

BIGTOE3, on 2009-12-08 00:31:26, said:

jfchandler, on 2009-12-07 12:43:23, said:

Thanks BT.... Very grateful for the clear, concise answer....

That's really interesting.... using the same Nationwide UK VISA debit card at Ayudhya draws no 150 baht fee, but using the same Nationwide card at Siam Commercial draws the 150 baht fee.

I'm assuming your accounts/cards mentioned here are denominated in pounds???

JF not sure what you mean sorry " denominated in pounds???"  ?????

BT

[califdann]

Following is an exerpt from the Citibank online "Home Page". The reason that I present it here, is that I am looking for an ability to use a credit card in LOS, without the added 4% cost, and the added "finance charge" on my bill from the credit card each month. It would seem to me that if Citibank, which has lots of outlets in the U.S. has branches in LOS, than I could additionally avoid the 150 baht charge for using their ATM while in LOS. Any comments, advice, etc...??

Califdann

===============
Dear Customer,

In light of the recent and unprecedented volatility in the world's financial markets, I am writing to update you on Citi's continuing financial strength and our commitment to serve your financial needs.

Much has happened during the last year as the global financial crisis has unfolded. At Citi, we took decisive and early action to prepare ourselves to weather these tough times through significantly strengthening our capital and liquidity positions. Governments around the world have also responded to the financial crisis by providing explicit support to the banking systems. So you should rest assured that your deposits are safe with us.


•Our Capital and Agreement with the U.S. Government: Recently, the U.S. Government provided an additional US$20 billion to Citi’s already strong capital base, which together with other provisions, increases our capital by an additional US$40 billion. As a result, when added to the earlier US$85 billion increase in our capital, this places our Tier 1 Capital Ratio at an expected 14.8%. This makes Citi one of the most well capitalized banks in the world.

As a locally licensed bank here, Citibank NA, Thailand Branch is regulated by the Bank of Thailand and is subject to all prudential and requirements applicable to banks. We are well capitalised with over Bht 13 billion of Capital Funds and an additional Bht 7.9 billion in retained earnings.

[BIGTOE3]

My advice would be - Don't use a Credit Card for ATM withdrawals BUT there are more guys on here who will advise you re USA accounts.

BT

[jfchandler]

Califdann...you're talking about two different things in your post...

1. a U.S. credit card that doesn't charge you an excessive (or any) foreign currency transaction charge on purchases made abroad.

2. the ability to withdraw funds using a U.S. card from Thai ATMs without paying the Thai banks' 150 baht foreign card withdrawal fee.

Re the first, U.S. Citibank almost certainly is going to charge you a foreign currency transaction charge on credit card purchases in Thailand... Some banks charge 3%, some charge 1%, a relatively few charge 0%. Among those with no (0%) extra charge, Capital One and Charles Schwab VISA are among the better options.

2. You NEVER want to use a U.S. credit card with withdraw cash from ATMs in Thailand or elsewhere, except as a last resort or in an emergency. The reasons are, almost all credit card companies will charge you 3% or similar cash advance fee....even if you do it in the U.S., ...and then they'll start charging interest from the day of the withdrawal...no grace period.

As for using a U.S. debit card in Thailand that will not incur the 150 baht Thai bank withdrawal fee...I don't know of any. But you can get to the same result in one of two ways...

a. use only AEON ATMs with any U.S. VISA or MC logo debit card in Thailand, and you''ll pay no fee, and/or

b. have a U.S. bank account/card that reimburses you either in full or up to some amount per month for other banks' ATM fees. Some U.S. banks only reimburse other banks' domestic ATM fees. A few reimburse other banks' ATM fees worldwide. E*Trade and Charles Schwab checking accounts are examples of cards that reimburse worldwide in full... There are a variety of mostly smaller banks that reimburse like up to $10 or $25 per month worldwide.

You can find more about these kinds of options by doing some searching on the Internet...or even here on ThaiVisa.

PS - For the record, I should have also added you can obtain cash here from Thai banks by doing what's called a counter withdrawal, where you go to the teller and present your U.S. debit card and passport, and ask them to withdraw funds from your account and give you the proceeds in baht. Of course, up to the limit of funds in your account. Not all Thai banks make this easy...some will tell you to go to their ATM. But probably most of the time, if you're willing to bring along your passport, you can do it. And counter withdrawals do not incur the 150 baht fee, unlike ATM withdrawals.

Edited by jfchandler, 2009-12-08 01:57:03.

[alphason]

Another confirmation...

UK Sterling demoninated Nationwide Flexaccount, blue VISA DEBIT card used in Bank of Ayudhya ATM, Chaofa Road Branch (Near Villa 3 entrance) - Phuket.

No fee - screen displays "Service Fee 0.00" .

Nationwide charge 1% visa fee, so the exchange rate stopped on my account is 53.696 to the pound @9.30am 08th Dec.

Edited by alphason, 2009-12-08 09:50:52.

[johng]

Went to the Ayudthaya ATM in Tukcom ( Pattaya ) today
and used my Nationwide Visa Debit card ( blue )
there was a warning screen advising transaction charge of 0 baht.
  

[jesimps]

Just got 10,000 baht from Bank of Ayudthaya atm at Central Festival Shopping centre, Pattaya. Used my UK Nationwide, blue, sterling denominated, Visa/debit card and there was no charge at this end. That's three separate Bank of Ayudthaya atms that haven't charged me so far; Tuk Com, Tesco Lotus and Central Festival.

[jfchandler]

Jesimps, at this point, I'd guess it's safe to assume you can use that same Nationwide card at any Bank of Ayudhya ATM and expect the same result... no fee. I think it's very unlikely whatever they're doing that results in no fee (and I'd sure like to know how/why) is going to change from location to location.

But, if anyone has a current, contrary experience about that with Bank of Ayudhya ATMs, please do chime in...

[donx]

I haven't heard recently if US bank ATM cards are still being charged the 150 baht fee at Bank of Ayudhya. Are US card holders still testing this? I'm not in Thailand now so I can't try it myself. I hope this is a sign of things to come for all foreign ATM card holders (I'm definitely not holding my breath).

[jfchandler]

When I tried sometime back, my U.S. ATM debit cards were still showing the 150 baht fee at Ayudhya, though I haven't tried lately. However, I've yet to see any report here on TV of an American saying they had gone fee-free at Ayudhya....

[donx]

jfchandler, on 2009-12-08 09:42:00, said:

When I tried sometime back, my U.S. ATM debit cards were still showing the 150 baht fee at Ayudhya, though I haven't tried lately. However, I've yet to see any report here on TV of an American saying they had gone fee-free at Ayudhya....

I haven't seen any reports here either, but I want to know whether that is because US card holders are trying or not. Once I heard a bank started charging the fee, I stopped using that bank's ATMs. I wonder who the first person was that found out that the 150 baht fee wasn't being charged? I remember at first the fee was down from 150 baht to 15 baht. Now there is no fee (on the Thai side).

[jfchandler]

DonX, there were some reports here about that re Bank of Ayudhya... But as best as I recall, none of them were coming from Americans... For some reason, the Brits and their Nationwide UK cards, and some other Europeans, seem to be the beneficiaries of whatever BofA is doing.

But...I have it on my agenda to try some of my various cards in a BofA ATM in the next day or two...just to doublecheck.

donx, on 2009-12-08 22:48:44, said:

jfchandler, on 2009-12-08 09:42:00, said:

When I tried sometime back, my U.S. ATM debit cards were still showing the 150 baht fee at Ayudhya, though I haven't tried lately. However, I've yet to see any report here on TV of an American saying they had gone fee-free at Ayudhya....

I haven't seen any reports here either, but I want to know whether that is because US card holders are trying or not. Once I heard a bank started charging the fee, I stopped using that bank's ATMs. I wonder who the first person was that found out that the 150 baht fee wasn't being charged? I remember at first the fee was down from 150 baht to 15 baht. Now there is no fee (on the Thai side).

[jfchandler]

To DonX and others in general...

Yesterday, I tried out my E*Trade VISA debit card and an HSBC ATM card (both from the U.S.) in a Bank of Ayudhya ATM in BKK. And as I had expected, in beginning a withdrawal, both times, I got the advance warning that there would be a 150 baht fee, and thus canceled both transactions.

No luck for Americans in this... For some unknown reason, the Brits, Germans and a few others are getting a break on this subject.

[Deelectro]

sorry if this is a repeat, no time to read 88 pages on this thread,but..

the 150 Bt. charge is $5  dollars (Cdn) but when the transaction shows up on my banks statement the cost of the transaction is between 18-21 bucks. (withdrawing 25,000 + 150 Bt, should equall exactly $805, but I get charged $821 Plus another $5 from my bank. So be careful, the 150 baht might not be your biggest problem! from what I did read of all the posts, the best way to get cash,minimizing fees,  is to transfer money from home to your Thai account inlarge sums. anyone care to summarize the other options?

[wimpy]

Deelectro, on 2009-12-10 19:37:34, said:

sorry if this is a repeat, no time to read 88 pages on this thread,but..

the 150 Bt. charge is $5  dollars (Cdn) but when the transaction shows up on my banks statement the cost of the transaction is between 18-21 bucks. (withdrawing 25,000 + 150 Bt, should equall exactly $805, but I get charged $821 Plus another $5 from my bank. So be careful, the 150 baht might not be your biggest problem! from what I did read of all the posts, the best way to get cash,minimizing fees,  is to transfer money from home to your Thai account inlarge sums. anyone care to summarize the other options?

It would be helpful if you could tell us what kind of card you are using.  Visa/Mastercard?  Debit/Credit?  Your bank?

[jfchandler]

Next time, please read all 88 pages of the thread, so you'll know what you're talking about first...  

But this time, we'll go easy on you...    This is an excerpt from a post earlier on this page... It pertains to U.S. debit cards, but you can equally well substitute Canadian with no harm...

Quote

As for using a U.S. debit card in Thailand that will not incur the 150 baht Thai bank withdrawal fee...I don't know of any. But you can get to the same result in one of two ways...

a. use only AEON ATMs with any U.S. VISA or MC logo debit card in Thailand, and you''ll pay no fee, and/or

b. have a U.S. bank account/card that reimburses you either in full or up to some amount per month for other banks' ATM fees. Some U.S. banks only reimburse other banks' domestic ATM fees. A few reimburse other banks' ATM fees worldwide. E*Trade and Charles Schwab checking accounts are examples of cards that reimburse worldwide in full... There are a variety of mostly smaller banks that reimburse like up to $10 or $25 per month worldwide.

You can find more about these kinds of options by doing some searching on the Internet...or even here on ThaiVisa.

PS - For the record, I should have also added you can obtain cash here from Thai banks by doing what's called a counter withdrawal, where you go to the teller and present your U.S. debit card and passport, and ask them to withdraw funds from your account and give you the proceeds in baht. Of course, up to the limit of funds in your account. Not all Thai banks make this easy...some will tell you to go to their ATM. But probably most of the time, if you're willing to bring along your passport, you can do it. And counter withdrawals do not incur the 150 baht fee, unlike ATM withdrawals.

What the above leaves out though, since it was answering another question, was the issue of what your home country bank may be charging you for foreign transactions. If you're going to play or live abroad, you'd better find a home bank that doesn't take you to the cleaners for doing so. That means no foreign transaction fees... No percentages taken of all your foreign ATM withdrawals or purchases. No flat $X per foreign ATM withdrawal.

It seems from your post that you don't know, or haven't looked into, just where you extra dollars went in the transaction you mention. For an ATM withdrawal, the Thai bank would ONLY be taking 150 baht or about your $5 Canadian. Anything beyond that is likely being skimmed by your home bank in a flat fee, a percentage fee, or sometimes both.

It also seems you didn't say exactly HOW you made the withdrawal (ATM or currency exchange booth or inside the branch), what kind of card you used (including credit or debit), and what source you used to conclude what exchange rate you were going to get.

Deelectro, on 2009-12-10 19:37:34, said:

sorry if this is a repeat, no time to read 88 pages on this thread,but..

anyone care to summarize the other options?

[donx]

jfchandler, on 2009-12-10 04:58:59, said:

To DonX and others in general...

Yesterday, I tried out my E*Trade VISA debit card and an HSBC ATM card (both from the U.S.) in a Bank of Ayudhya ATM in BKK. And as I had expected, in beginning a withdrawal, both times, I got the advance warning that there would be a 150 baht fee, and thus canceled both transactions.

No luck for Americans in this... For some unknown reason, the Brits, Germans and a few others are getting a break on this subject.

Thank you for the update jfchandler. I really wish someone could explain why some foreign cards are charged the 150 baht fee at Bank of Ayudhya ATMs and some are not.