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[ronz28]

Perhaps the Thai banks are just allocating the cost of the ATM frauds to the Farangs with the new ATM fee because it has been Farangs that have been ripping off the Thai Bank ATM machines.

[thecatman]

oMega69, on 2009-04-08 03:47:41, said:

thecatman, on 2009-04-07 17:49:37, said:

TonySoprano, on 2009-04-07 16:34:05, said:

So are there any major Thai Banks which are not members of Thai Bankers' Association?

That, I do not know, but here's a list of the banks that are members :

Bangkok Bank
Krung Thai Bank
Bank Of Ayudhya
Kasikorn Bank
Thai Military Bank
Siam Commercial Bank
Standard Chartered Bank
Siam City Bank
BankThai
UOB Bank
Thanachart Bank
Tisco Bank
Land And Houses Retail Bank
ACL Bank
Kaitnakin Bank
Thai Credit Retail Bank

So if a Use the Islamic Bank of Thailans ATM i will not get the 150THB extra fee ?! . . .

I'm guessing (from the information we have) that no, you wouldn't get charged using their ATM. Would you mind letting me know where some of their ATM's are located (in Bangkok) as I've never heard of them before.

[thecatman]

Following oMega69's mention of The Islamic Bank of Thailand i did a little reasearch into other banks that are not included in 'The Thai Bankers' Association'.

HSBC has a branch close to Lumphini Park on Rama 4 road and there are 3 ATM machines there and Citibank has a branch on North Sathorn road, Silom and there's also an ATM machine there too, So, as these banks are not member's of 'The Thai Bankers' Association', anyone living in the Silom area will be able to easily avoid the ATM charges simply by using these ATM machines instead.

If anyone can think of any other banks (I'm sure there's more) that are not included in the Thai Bankers Assoc and that have ATM machines, then please do list them.

Edited by thecatman, 2009-04-08 14:35:41.

[phaethon]

<cynic>It just occurred to me that, since this is a flat per-transaction fee, how long before they start to reduce the maximum withdrawal limit to 10 or even 5k per transaction...? </cynic>

[thecatman]

phaethon, on 2009-04-08 14:38:06, said:

<cynic>It just occurred to me that, since this is a flat per-transaction fee, how long before they start to reduce the maximum withdrawal limit to 10 or even 5k per transaction...? </cynic>

The maximum withdrawal level is set by your home Country bank, not the Thai banks.

[Naam]

thecatman, on 2009-04-08 14:57:48, said:

phaethon, on 2009-04-08 14:38:06, said:

<cynic>It just occurred to me that, since this is a flat per-transaction fee, how long before they start to reduce the maximum withdrawal limit to 10 or even 5k per transaction...? </cynic>

The maximum withdrawal level is set by your home Country bank, not the Thai banks.

the maximum per withdrawal/transaction is set by the thai banks and the settings of their ATMs (which vary). the "home bank" might or might not set a maximum amount per day for ATM transactions.

[sanmiguel]

Naam, on 2009-04-08 08:16:08, said:

no i don't agree and there is no law, neither in Thailand nor in any other country i know, that governs bank charges. as far as any excessive profits are concerned i doubt that they exist.

In the UK for the last 3 years the Office of fair trading has taken the banks to court over the excessive cost of bank charges, for if you say go overdrawn by 1gbp you get a letter that costs 40gbp.

The OFT have won this case hands down as the law states they are only allowed to recoup their cost of going overdrawn which is literally pennies as opposed to the 40gbp they charge, and that it is seen as being an illegal fine for which they dont have the right to issue ...... the banks argued it was a service but this was not accepted.

It will cost the banks billions and its believed will see the end of free UK banking.

But my major point was this collusion of banks must be illegal as its against the open market, surely Thailands got laws to enhance free trade/ the open market even if they get ignored.

Thankyou to the people who have come up with ways around this fee.

Edited by sanmiguel, 2009-04-08 15:17:11.

[loong]

thecatman, on 2009-04-08 14:57:48, said:

phaethon, on 2009-04-08 14:38:06, said:

<cynic>It just occurred to me that, since this is a flat per-transaction fee, how long before they start to reduce the maximum withdrawal limit to 10 or even 5k per transaction...? </cynic>

The maximum withdrawal level is set by your home Country bank, not the Thai banks.

The maximum withdrawal at most Thai ATMs is 20,000 and some 25,000. So limited by the denomination of the notes.
The other day I used an ATM that only had 500 Baht notes, so was limited to a maximum of 10,000 Baht.
Once I used a machine and it only had 100 Baht notes, so maximum withdrawal was 2,500.

Maybe the Banks will start loading the machines with 100 Baht notes where they know farang use them.

[terryp]

[/quote]

So if a Use the Islamic Bank of Thailans ATM i will not get the 150THB extra fee ?! . . .
[/quote]

I'm guessing (from the information we have) that no, you wouldn't get charged using their ATM. Would you mind letting me know where some of their ATM's are located (in Bangkok) as I've never heard of them before.
[/quote]



Big one on Asoke near Grammy (Green signs)

[thecatman]

Naam, on 2009-04-08 15:14:12, said:

thecatman, on 2009-04-08 14:57:48, said:

phaethon, on 2009-04-08 14:38:06, said:

<cynic>It just occurred to me that, since this is a flat per-transaction fee, how long before they start to reduce the maximum withdrawal limit to 10 or even 5k per transaction...? </cynic>

The maximum withdrawal level is set by your home Country bank, not the Thai banks.

the maximum per withdrawal/transaction is set by the thai banks and the settings of their ATMs (which vary). the "home bank" might or might not set a maximum amount per day for ATM transactions.

Ahh, Yes. I stand corrected.
I guess it's that my 'home bank' withdrawal limit is 300 pounds sterling per day, (around 15,000 Bt). So the Thai ATM limit doesn't come into play. I think the majority of 'home banks' have their standard card withdrawal limits set below the Thai ATM withdrawal fhreshold.

Anyway, my main point is, although I can see phaethon's concerns, I certainly don't think the Thai banks would lower the ATM limits this low, purely because the large majority of their customers/users are Thai's with Thai bank cards, not Farang with foreign bank cards.

Edited by thecatman, 2009-04-08 15:58:03.

[oMega69]

thecatman, on 2009-04-08 13:32:02, said:

oMega69, on 2009-04-08 03:47:41, said:

thecatman, on 2009-04-07 17:49:37, said:

TonySoprano, on 2009-04-07 16:34:05, said:

So are there any major Thai Banks which are not members of Thai Bankers' Association?

That, I do not know, but here's a list of the banks that are members :

Bangkok Bank
Krung Thai Bank
Bank Of Ayudhya
Kasikorn Bank
Thai Military Bank
Siam Commercial Bank
Standard Chartered Bank
Siam City Bank
BankThai
UOB Bank
Thanachart Bank
Tisco Bank
Land And Houses Retail Bank
ACL Bank
Kaitnakin Bank
Thai Credit Retail Bank

So if a Use the Islamic Bank of Thailans ATM i will not get the 150THB extra fee ?! . . .

I'm guessing (from the information we have) that no, you wouldn't get charged using their ATM. Would you mind letting me know where some of their ATM's are located (in Bangkok) as I've never heard of them before.

This one i only have seen here in Pattaya . .2rd, i bit north from arabic street . . .

[thecatman]

Cheers terryp and oMega69, I will bear those 2 in mind.

[Penkoprod]

thecatman, on 2009-04-08 08:34:30, said:

Following oMega69's mention of The Islamic Bank of Thailand i did a little reasearch into other banks that are not included in 'The Thai Bankers' Association'.

HSBC has a branch close to Lumphini Park on Rama 4 road and there are 3 ATM machines there and Citibank has a branch on North Sathorn road, Silom and there's also an ATM machine there too, So, as these banks are not member's of 'The Thai Bankers' Association', anyone living in the Silom area will be able to easily avoid the ATM charges simply by using these ATM machines instead.

If anyone can think of any other banks (I'm sure there's more) that are not included in the Thai Bankers Assoc and that have ATM machines, then please do list them.

Just because a bank isnt in the association doesn't mean they will not inpose the same charge though, does it?
Naive to think so IMO

Penkoprod

[thecatman]

Penkoprod, on 2009-04-08 16:43:03, said:

thecatman, on 2009-04-08 08:34:30, said:

Following oMega69's mention of The Islamic Bank of Thailand i did a little reasearch into other banks that are not included in 'The Thai Bankers' Association'.

HSBC has a branch close to Lumphini Park on Rama 4 road and there are 3 ATM machines there and Citibank has a branch on North Sathorn road, Silom and there's also an ATM machine there too, So, as these banks are not member's of 'The Thai Bankers' Association', anyone living in the Silom area will be able to easily avoid the ATM charges simply by using these ATM machines instead.

If anyone can think of any other banks (I'm sure there's more) that are not included in the Thai Bankers Assoc and that have ATM machines, then please do list them.

Just because a bank isnt in the association doesn't mean they will not inpose the same charge though, does it?
Naive to think so IMO

Penkoprod

They may well do, the point is, at this moment in time we know for a fact (from the link provided early in this thread) that all the Thai banks included in The Thai bankers Assoc will start charging as from April 17th.

As yet, there is no announcement that anyone is aware of, of HSBC or the Islamic bank doing this.

If you have info of HSBC and the Islamic Bank of Thailand following suit, then please do post it.

Say, in 6 months time, the other 2 banks mentioned above do follow suit, well surely even an extra 6 months of free withdrawals is better than a kick in the nads, (if it's convenient for you to use there few ATMs of course).

Bottom line is, people are posting information on this thread to try and help one another out and at the same time save each other a few quid if we can. It's not a huge amount, and probably not enough to make anyone rethink coming here or whether they can stay here, but I'm of the opinion that my money is of more use to me in my pocket, rather than the banks.

Your post states what we already know is a possibility and therefore adds no value to this thread.

Edited by thecatman, 2009-04-08 17:27:03.

[TonySoprano]

yeah sure. still waiting to see if anyone has any idea wtf thinktoomut is talking about or if he is infact just a special little boy.

[merck]

Heng, on 2009-04-07 09:06:07, said:

Big deal.   Banks are busineses, not public services.

Some of them seem quite happy to be bailed out by public money when they go bust though.

Edited by merck, 2009-04-09 04:37:25.

[bdenner]

Just another thought on this. With so many banks involved and all placing the same charge at the same time! Isn't that price fixing or co-hersion? Illegal in the Western World.

A number of major Airlines have recently been heavily fined for just this sort of thing!

[donx]

TonySoprano, on 2009-04-07 04:32:41, said:

You are a fool for using a bank that charges you fees. there are many non-fee banks that issue ATMS. perhaps a better name would have been thinktoolittle?

think_too_mut, on 2009-04-07 04:41:39, said:

Not a squeek was heard when other banks charge what they want. Now the world is falling apart when Thai banks (that actually provide the service and machines) come to table to get their (if anyone deserves, they do) cut.

Look how WestPac Australia handles one transaction from Bangkok Bank ATM. There are 3 fees (17.21 A$) of total 450 baht for 1 single transaction charged by Westpac while service provider (BKK Bank) is doing it all and just onlooking, for free:



25 Mar 2009    WBC FEE - WITHDRAWAL AT O/S ATM BANGKOK THA S3DIP392023097240309 5.00

25 Mar 2009    WITHDRAWAL AT O/S ATM BANGKOK THA 10020.00THB 023097240309 406.99

25 Mar 2009    MASTERCARD CURRENCY CONVERSION FEE BANGKOK THA 10020.00THB 023097240309 4.07

25 Mar 2009    FEE - FOREIGN CURRENCY TRANS AT O/S ATM BANGKOK THA 10020.00THB 023097240309 8.14

Some even proclaimed this is a plot to drive foreigners out! What a nonsense.

I don't know what country TonySoprano's bank if from. I assume think_too_mutt uses banks from Australia. I use a very small local US bank with only 5 locations. They don't charge any ATM fees. This is how they stay competitive with the big banks. Now if I use an ATM from another bank, that other bank may charge me a fee, but my bank doesn't charge a fee. And if I use an ATM in the Allpoints network (a nationwide ATM network) then I don't get charged any fee at all. This is how it works for me for ATMs in the US.

Every month my in-laws withdrawal money from a Thai bank ATM using a US ATM card we provided them so that they can make a car payment for us. Usually the fee for this withdrawal is $1. The exchange rate is good IMHO. For example, they withdrew 10,000 baht on March 31 and the amount withdrawn in the US (excluding the fee which usually shows up a day later) was $285.79 which is an exchange rate of 34.99 baht/$. Using the baht exchange rate information from Thai Visa, you will see an exchange rate for that day of 35.185.

I am concerned about this new ATM fee because it is going to cost us a lot more to keep sending money monthly the way that we have been doing for so many years. The bank account the in-laws take money from has only enough money for the monthly transfers. I transfer money into this account at the end of each month. This keeps them from attempting to withdrawal too much money.

Unfortunately, I don't know if there are any non Thai Bankers Association banks in their small province, so I'll have to figure out a way to minimize these fees someway. A fee of 150 baht seems way over the top. That's over $4. I've seen nothing like this type of fee except in casinos in Las Vegas and such.

[loong]

bdenner, on 2009-04-09 05:25:52, said:

Just another thought on this. With so many banks involved and all placing the same charge at the same time! Isn't that price fixing or co-hersion? Illegal in the Western World.

A number of major Airlines have recently been heavily fined for just this sort of thing!

Somebody who doesn't read the thread before posting.
Yours is not another thought, already been mentioned.

http://www.thaivisa....=...t&p=2646973

Quote

Possibly or maybe the Thai monopolies commission or similar body, would say that it is illegal for all the banks to collude into making such a deal ....... not exactly creating a free open market im sure you'd agree.

Surely all bank charges in Thailand are governed by the same laws, if Thais were to get charged 150 baht (which as all i know they do) then surely this would be seens as excessive profit and the government could put limits on such cartel like profiteering.

But Thailand have been used to a one sided free trade agreement with western nations for so long that they dont know what free trade is.

http://www.thaivisa....=...t&p=2647556

Quote

As far as I know, bank charges are not governed by law, however it would be against the law for any companies in the UK that sell a similar product or service to collude on setting prices or fees.
Something like OPEC would be against the law in UK as I'm sure would be this Banking association fixing charges.

[bdenner]

loong, on 2009-04-09 07:32:03, said:

Somebody who doesn't read the thread before posting.
Yours is not another thought, already been mentioned.

Please forgive me. Unlike yourself I do not have the time to read and scrutinise every written word in these forums.

[think_too_mut]

donx, on 2009-04-09 07:39:11, said:

I assume think_too_mutt uses banks from Australia.

Yes, WestPac is one of the largest Oz banks.

Exchange rates can vary considerably, I remember once when I had to exchange money at hotel reception desk, they gave me 19THB for 1A$ while banks would outside were giving 22. That's over 10% difference.

In this particular case on March 25. 2009, exchange rates were:

Thai Visa: 24.84
Oanda: 24.80
Bangkok Bank: 24.42
Westpac: 24.62

What counst is, what Westpac has charged me. It gave me 1% better exchange rate than Bangkok Bank although BBL's ATM was used to take the money out. Westpac exchange rate governed.

That 1% better exchange rate, is, to someone's confusion, exactly 4.07A$ they charged me for currency conversion fee :

25 Mar 2009 MASTERCARD CURRENCY CONVERSION FEE BANGKOK THA 10020.00THB 023097240309 4.07

It worked far better when I bought my condo in July 2008, it was 79,000A$ (then exchange rate was 33 baht) and 1% was 26,400baht in my favor.
To move the money, the charge for the whole lot was 980THB.

donx, on 2009-04-09 07:39:11, said:

I use a very small local US bank with only 5 locations. They don't charge any ATM fees. This is how they stay competitive with the big banks.

Mutuals, Credit Unions and community banks stay competitive in several ways, the most important is that they do not pay government 1$ per transaction but all transactions in 1 day is counted as 1 transaction and they pay 1$ for the whole lot. In return, they don't have all the functions regular bank have.

I know from payment processing: a medium size processing center would see 50,000 cheques per day, each of them constituting a transaction and 50,000$ had to be paid to the government for that day.

Mutuals (even if they happened to have that many transactions in 1 day) would pay only 1$.

Plus, they don't have glitzy offices at Manhattan and expensive media marketing campaigns.

[donx]

think_too_mut, on 2009-04-08 20:50:21, said:

donx, on 2009-04-09 07:39:11, said:

I assume think_too_mutt uses banks from Australia.

Yes, WestPac is one of the largest Oz banks.

Exchange rates can vary considerably, I remember once when I had to exchange money at hotel reception desk, they gave me 19THB for 1A$ while banks would outside were giving 22. That's over 10% difference.

In this particular case on March 25. 2009, exchange rates were:

Thai Visa: 24.84
Oanda: 24.80
Bangkok Bank: 24.42
Westpac: 24.62

What counst is, what Westpac has charged me. It gave me 1% better exchange rate than Bangkok Bank although BBL's ATM was used to take the money out. Westpac exchange rate governed.

That 1% better exchange rate, is, to someone's confusion, exactly 4.07A$ they charged me for currency conversion fee :

25 Mar 2009 MASTERCARD CURRENCY CONVERSION FEE BANGKOK THA 10020.00THB 023097240309 4.07

It worked far better when I bought my condo in July 2008, it was 79,000A$ (then exchange rate was 33 baht) and 1% was 26,400baht in my favor.
To move the money, the charge for the whole lot was 980THB.

donx, on 2009-04-09 07:39:11, said:

I use a very small local US bank with only 5 locations. They don't charge any ATM fees. This is how they stay competitive with the big banks.

Mutuals, Credit Unions and community banks stay competitive in several ways, the most important is that they do not pay government 1$ per transaction but all transactions in 1 day is counted as 1 transaction and they pay 1$ for the whole lot. In return, they don't have all the functions regular bank have.

I know from payment processing: a medium size processing center would see 50,000 cheques per day, each of them constituting a transaction and 50,000$ had to be paid to the government for that day.

Mutuals (even if they happened to have that many transactions in 1 day) would pay only 1$.

Plus, they don't have glitzy offices at Manhattan and expensive media marketing campaigns.

I'm a bit confused by some of your numbers. For your single transaction you say your fees were 17.21 A$. I assume that you withdrew 10,000 baht. The following itemized list is from your original post:

25 Mar 2009 WBC FEE - WITHDRAWAL AT O/S ATM BANGKOK THA S3DIP392023097240309 5.00

25 Mar 2009 WITHDRAWAL AT O/S ATM BANGKOK THA 10020.00THB 023097240309 406.99

25 Mar 2009 MASTERCARD CURRENCY CONVERSION FEE BANGKOK THA 10020.00THB 023097240309 4.07

25 Mar 2009 FEE - FOREIGN CURRENCY TRANS AT O/S ATM BANGKOK THA 10020.00THB 023097240309 8.14

It appears that you were charged a 20 baht fee, since the THB amount listed is 10020.00 and I don't think ATMs allow 20 baht withdrawals. It also appears that the 5.00 + 4.07 + 8.14 fees that total 17.21 A$ are in addition to the 406.99 A$ withdrawn from your account, so that if your balance at the time of the withdrawal was 1000 A$, the balance after the withdrawal would be (1000 - 406.99) - 17.21 = 575.80. Or are you saying that the currency conversion fee of 4.07 is contained in the 406.99 amount, thus the balance would be (1000 - 406.99) - 13.14 = 579.87?

Even if you only paid a fee of 13.14 A$ for the transaction, that seems to me to be quite a fee to pay to withdrawal 10,000 baht from a Thai ATM.

[torrenova]

After all the years are their still people who keep using outside cards for withdrawals when they live here ? surely not !

On holiday when you are only here once every few years then ok but if you live here and bitch about the cost of a baht bus or the price of a beer, get a grip on finances.

There really is no need to pay these charges.

[donx]

torrenova, on 2009-04-09 00:00:03, said:

After all the years are their still people who keep using outside cards for withdrawals when they live here ? surely not !

On holiday when you are only here once every few years then ok but if you live here and bitch about the cost of a baht bus or the price of a beer, get a grip on finances.

There really is no need to pay these charges.

I don't live here but I visit on average every other year. As I say in my post above, I provide an outside ATM card to my inlaws so that we can send money to them every month to make our car payment and to provide a little bit of spending money to them since they are retired and poor.

[think_too_mut]

donx, on 2009-04-09 12:37:48, said:

I'm a bit confused by some of your numbers. For your single transaction you say your fees were 17.21 A$. I assume that you withdrew 10,000 baht. The following itemized list is from your original post:

25 Mar 2009 WBC FEE - WITHDRAWAL AT O/S ATM BANGKOK THA S3DIP392023097240309 5.00

25 Mar 2009 WITHDRAWAL AT O/S ATM BANGKOK THA 10020.00THB 023097240309 406.99

25 Mar 2009 MASTERCARD CURRENCY CONVERSION FEE BANGKOK THA 10020.00THB 023097240309 4.07

25 Mar 2009 FEE - FOREIGN CURRENCY TRANS AT O/S ATM BANGKOK THA 10020.00THB 023097240309 8.14

It appears that you were charged a 20 baht fee, since the THB amount listed is 10020.00 and I don't think ATMs allow 20 baht withdrawals. It also appears that the 5.00 + 4.07 + 8.14 fees that total 17.21 A$ are in addition to the 406.99 A$ withdrawn from your account, so that if your balance at the time of the withdrawal was 1000 A$, the balance after the withdrawal would be (1000 - 406.99) - 17.21 = 575.80. Or are you saying that the currency conversion fee of 4.07 is contained in the 406.99 amount, thus the balance would be (1000 - 406.99) - 13.14 = 579.87?

Even if you only paid a fee of 13.14 A$ for the transaction, that seems to me to be quite a fee to pay to withdrawal 10,000 baht from a Thai ATM.

WBC FEE - WITHDRAWAL AT O/S ATM BANGKOK THA  5.00 + CURRENCY CONVERSION FEE BANGKOK THA 4.07 + FEE - FOREIGN CURRENCY TRANS AT O/S ATM BANGKOK 8.14   = 17.21

17.21 are total fees WestPac charged me. "Currency conversion fee" of 4.07 is included.

And 17.21A$ is in addition to 406.99A$.

Those fees are same, regardless how much is withdrawn - 10,000THB or 25,000THB.

It is still less than 30A$ fixed fee for telegraphic transfer (or sending money via the Internet) to a Thai bank account. Then, it gets even worse when Thai bank take their cut. On 20,000THB I sent 1 month ago they took 750B.

And yes, I just noticed 20THB fee. So that thing goes to 100THB from 17th of April?