560 replies to this topic
Posted 2009-04-11 17:15:14
 rixalex, on 2009-04-11 00:58:20, said:
slim, on 2009-04-11 17:29:19, said: What your point ?
I've lived in Thailand over 5 years
I speak the language
I meet Thai people from all backgrounds (in Khon Kaen - don't suppose you know where that is - why not Google it ?)
Sorry, i thought my point was blatantly obvious.
OK, let me "nutshell" it for you: Foreign guys who marry into a family that has spent the last 6 or 7 years sucking up all the Thaksin propaganda he could dish out, often end up believing and spouting the same nonsense.
I think the only nut in that nutshell is you.
What makes you feel so superior?
What makes you think your the only one capable of having an opinion or free thought?
Whose propaganda have you been sucking up?
Sheesh 
Edited by flying, 2009-04-11 17:16:02.
Posted 2009-04-11 17:19:31
Thai at Heart, on 2009-04-11 17:02:52, said: jbhh, on 2009-04-11 09:41:09, said: Would anyone agree with me that the PM let it come to this on purpose?
He's a very intelligent person and he had enough time to prepare for the events in Pattaya, it make me think he wanted the reds to cross the line so he has the right to stop them from doing anything stupid in the future. If he would have acted before and called enough security to make sure they can't interrupt the summit, none of this would have happened and he in return would have no reason to take action against the red.
I would call it a smart move, however the reds will most likely say he got lucky when looking at the outcome of today's events in a couple of days or so.
Being the PM hosting Asean plus CHINA, KOREA and JAPAN, and having them helicoptered out to safety because your country is apparently beyond your control wouldn't seem like a very smart move to me. I would imagine all the delegates reckon they won't be seeing Abhisit at too many more meetings in the future. He will have lost massive credibility in the eyes of his fellow delegates.
This also presumes that he can and will take action. Right now, I don't think that there is much HE can do. The people (and in that I don't mean the PAD but the 30mn un-decided or uncommitted) can rise up against the reds and show their dissatisfaction with the situation. That I think is his only hope. I can't realistically see that if the protests can keep continuing he has any way out other than to hold elections. The army might make the decision for him of course, and then Thailand is straight back to square one.
If he sends in the police to break up the protests, he is doing precisely what Samak and Somchai did and look how far that got them. The factionalised nature of the police mean that there is no guarantee that they would act effectively on his orders anyway. The army might do it for him, but does Thailand want it's name on the front page of the worlds press again having the army march on it's own countrymen?
The PAD got treated with kid gloves, and the Dems often open support means that they can't really do much without the situation spiralling even further out of control and making him appear like a complete hypocrite.
we'll see... I think these leaders very much understand and grasp the total picture of the situation, and that this may well have been the right thing to do, as the reds now look as total idiots and "everyone" agrees that the PM "had to act now"...
edwardmoulton, on 2009-04-11 17:07:04, said: I agree totally and the longer he sits there like a schoolboy waiting for a phone call from his mum the longer the country will go down. Whichever side you support, the impasse is wrong and just dragging out the inevitable. Call a fair election overseen buy the UN as we are in a banana republic now by all accounts and in western eyes...
That may be the solution to the symptom but not the solution of the cause. I don't see any "democratic" government succeed (in Thailand) as long as there are the "ruling elites" that want a piece of the action.
Edited by jbhh, 2009-04-11 17:21:51.
Posted 2009-04-11 17:23:37
Odds on a coup after the holidays anyone?
Posted 2009-04-11 17:28:17
flying, on 2009-04-11 18:15:14, said: What makes you feel so superior?
You 
Posted 2009-04-11 17:31:42
jbhh, on 2009-04-11 10:19:31, said: Thai at Heart, on 2009-04-11 17:02:52, said: jbhh, on 2009-04-11 09:41:09, said: Would anyone agree with me that the PM let it come to this on purpose?
He's a very intelligent person and he had enough time to prepare for the events in Pattaya, it make me think he wanted the reds to cross the line so he has the right to stop them from doing anything stupid in the future. If he would have acted before and called enough security to make sure they can't interrupt the summit, none of this would have happened and he in return would have no reason to take action against the red.
I would call it a smart move, however the reds will most likely say he got lucky when looking at the outcome of today's events in a couple of days or so.
Being the PM hosting Asean plus CHINA, KOREA and JAPAN, and having them helicoptered out to safety because your country is apparently beyond your control wouldn't seem like a very smart move to me. I would imagine all the delegates reckon they won't be seeing Abhisit at too many more meetings in the future. He will have lost massive credibility in the eyes of his fellow delegates.
This also presumes that he can and will take action. Right now, I don't think that there is much HE can do. The people (and in that I don't mean the PAD but the 30mn un-decided or uncommitted) can rise up against the reds and show their dissatisfaction with the situation. That I think is his only hope. I can't realistically see that if the protests can keep continuing he has any way out other than to hold elections. The army might make the decision for him of course, and then Thailand is straight back to square one.
If he sends in the police to break up the protests, he is doing precisely what Samak and Somchai did and look how far that got them. The factionalised nature of the police mean that there is no guarantee that they would act effectively on his orders anyway. The army might do it for him, but does Thailand want it's name on the front page of the worlds press again having the army march on it's own countrymen?
The PAD got treated with kid gloves, and the Dems often open support means that they can't really do much without the situation spiralling even further out of control and making him appear like a complete hypocrite.
we'll see... I think these leaders very much understand and grasp the total picture of the situation, and that this may well have been the right thing to do, as the reds now look as total idiots and "everyone" agrees that the PM "had to act now"...
edwardmoulton, on 2009-04-11 17:07:04, said: I agree totally and the longer he sits there like a schoolboy waiting for a phone call from his mum the longer the country will go down. Whichever side you support, the impasse is wrong and just dragging out the inevitable. Call a fair election overseen buy the UN as we are in a banana republic now by all accounts and in western eyes...
That may be the solution to the symptom but not the solution of the cause. I don't see any "democratic" government succeed (in Thailand) as long as there are the "ruling elites" that want a piece of the action.
So what is he going to do that can magically defuse this situation?
Posted 2009-04-11 17:33:00
I've been following this rather closely. Here are my thoughts:
The PAD Protests
I think the PAD demonstrations were an appropriate response to issues of government corruption, and the single-minded attempt to exonerate Thaksin by the government of the time - at least in the early days. During these protests the government of the time made a misstep, people got hurt. Around that time the red shirts arrived. More violence and the confrontation escalated. The PAD became militant. More people were hurt. Once the PAD had resorted to violence they lost the moral high ground. It is understandable that they did so, in the face of grenade attacks etcetera, but nevertheless, this was the end of their moral triumph. Ultimately the airport was closed. This was an unbelievably bad decision.
The Democrat Ascendancy
After being mostly silent, with a few notable condemnations by Abhisit regarding both the airport takeover and the way in which Puea Thai MP's were hounded by PAD protesters with handclappers, the democrats got their chance to govern. At the time of the power transfer it was neck and neck as to who would form the next government. The Puea Thai was offering 50 mil to any MP who would switch to their side, the Dems had military backing (and perhaps the quiet backing of more 'elevated' houses). It was a no holds barred race, and the Dems won the day. Since that time they have governed remarkably well in my opinion. A fragile stability was being established and the country's reputation was being rebuilt.
Thaksin Bites Back
Seeing the effectiveness of the PAD protests the DAAD/UDD decided that they should do likewise. Fair enough. In the first couple of days they were peaceful and portions of their message were righteous. However, they insisted on supporting the criminal Thaksin. That was, and still is, an indefensible position. Moreover, they demanded resignations of privy council members. That simply isn't going to happen. Nevertheless their desire for a more equitable system is understandable and laudable, despite what other motives some of their leaders may
Blue Shirts and The Summit
Whoever paid these blue shirt guys sorely miscalculated. They should never have been in Pattaya to begin with. The government should have ensured stability for the summit by bringing in 20,000 soldiers and 10,000 police to maintain order. Violence ensued, the summit was canceled, and a state of emergency declared. The red shirts are equally to blame. They should never have been there. The damage has been done. Thailand and the Thai people will suffer.
Overall Thoughts
Nobody is really in the right here. The extremists have ruled the day for far too long. The damage to the country has been severe, and it's not over yet. Both sides need to be reasonable and willing to negotiate. Sadly this seems unlikely to happen. And even if it were to happen what is there to negotiate really? I see no real solutions. For now all we can do is watch and wait and hope.
Thoughts on Possible Solutions (Listed in Order)
1) The current government agrees to step down after necessary 'bipartisan' business is completed.
2) All members and leaders of protest groups are exonerated.
3) The constitution is rewritten to abolish the party dissolution clauses, with all sides taking part in the process.
4) Both sides agree to not pardon politicians previously found guilty of electoral fraud, but the ban is rescinded for leaders of banned parties who were not directly involved in the activities which led to party dissolution.
5) Laws are enacted to ensure that any politician found guilty of vote buying in the next elections is jailed.
6) Laws are put in place to severely criminalize public takeover of government facilities during protest movements.
7) Thaksin's money is returned minus the tax that would have been withheld had the tax laws not been changed just prior to the sale of ShinCorp.
8) Both sides agree to accept the victor or coalition party that wins.
9) Both sides agree to not exonerate Thaksin for his criminal behavior.
10) All agree that the Privy Council is an institution that is above politics as it functions directly for the monarchy.
11) The military agrees not to meddle.
12) Elections are held.
Edited by way2muchcoffee, 2009-04-11 18:02:36.
Posted 2009-04-11 17:33:15
Thai at Heart, on 2009-04-11 10:20:31, said: Henry, I think to say that there isn't general support is a very dangerous idea. Just as the yellows had a silent level of support, there is a silent level of support for the reds. Simply because people don't actively protest doesn't mean that a lot of people are dissatisfied with the antics of the army, the PAD and the Dems over the last couple of years.
I have seen and heard more discussion about the short term and long term future for Thailand amongst Thai's in the last year than in any of the previous 20 I have been here. People feel very uneasy about which way the country will go.
In my interpretation there is a feeling that if the status quo doesn't change now, the so called elites/Bangkokians/Chinese business owners will have the country to themselves just at a time when the poor believed (rightly or wrongly)they may have had a champion to further their cause in the near future. It is extremely difficult to engender loyalty to the current system when it hasn't got you any further than planting rice on rented land.
Whilst I don't believe that the ideas of the reds appeal to an overwhelming majority of Thai's, I think it appeals to more people than the ideas propagated by the PAD. As for the Dems, well they haven't had any major appeal outside their strongholds in recent years. Is this down to brainwashing or corruption or I reckon more probably that the poor outside of the South don't believe they have ever really done anything for them?
Edited - Quotes didn't work
Thai at Heart.
Of course its my personal opinion, and so is yours. Its all depend in wich environment you stay. I confess that I have more connections in the Thai urban society.
But the contacts that I have in Isan and North, do like to end the current situation, and non of them believe that Thaksin is the answer. His image is just damaged too much. And yes they feel neglected, but they also know dam_n well that Thaksin is using them like a prostitute for his own gain.
And the recent stimulus from the present government regarding education, 2000 Baht, free water and so on is highly appreciated.
Also don't underestimate the fact that Abhisit is good looking, polite,well behaving and well spoken. For westerners its maybe rather irrelevant but you, as I know, its still very important in Thai culture.
Why otherwise Thai soap and their stars are so popular.
And indeed I agree with you that Thailand needs big social reforms, but who are the leaders of the red brigade you can trust to deliver it. Is it Chalerm, Samak or some other of the tree stooges?
And its also a fact that most Thai believe that the democrats are far less corrupt than other parties, Chuan for instance has a great respect for that matter even amongst his enemies.
And as I suggested in an other topic. Lets evaluate the situation end of next week.
BTW, my nickname is not Thai at Heart but I can vow to you that my concern and empathy for the unprivileged in Thai society is immense, due to my many travels all over the country.
And that's why I believe that changes in the society can only be reached by education, and this is exactly one of the major targets of the present government, together with establishing a good health care. And that is again what the present government did, the 30 baht health scheme didn't work before and only after a few months its works almost perfectly now, as everybody can testify.
So give this government the benefit of the doubt till the next elections who are any how held next year. And don't you agree that due to the current worldwide economical collapse its not good to have a paralyzed government who must spend months in campaigning and after that spend months in negotiations to form a new government. Or are you so sure that the opposition will win this elections with an overwhelming majority. And again, do you honestly believe that the reds have able statesman to rule the country in the present economical situation. I think you can agree that Chalerm or Samak are definitely not those men.
Posted 2009-04-11 17:34:33
I enjoyed your 'Dewey defeats Truman' piece yesterday Henry
Lets face it, Belgium's contribution to geo-political analysis and combat has been the 'This way to Paris' signs erected on the Belgian border in 1914 and 1939.
The helicopters today reminded me a bit of the fall of Saigon.
Edited by Journalist, 2009-04-11 17:37:55.
#509
khonkaen man
Posted 2009-04-11 17:38:20
From some of the post on this thread it is more than apparent, that those decrying what the red shirt do, have more than likely never visited the North and North east of Thailand. I am not a Thaksin supporter but I would never be a Democrat. Until Thaksin came along the poor would get a visit just before election time, by the Dems, who would promise them the world then win the election and clear off back to Bkk and do nothing for the poor.
Thaksin gave them a little something in return for there votes, he was not stupid he realised that you had to throw down some corn for the poor. I am sure we all agree that all Thai politicians are corrupt( well most) so Mr T is no different to any of the others. The elite have used the Dems to further their wealth with the support of the army and ringed by an institution I am not allowed to talk about.
Thaksin has is own agenda and the poor have theirs and the only chance for the poor to achieve their agenda is by pinning all thier hopes on Mr T.
A previous poster said that this was a conflict between Royalists and Republicans and that to me is 100% correct. The poor have never had a leader who took on the establishment, now they have and he aint going away. Unfortunately history shows us that to reach true democracy we have to have bloodshed. Not a nice thought but the poor are no longer wai-ing to the elite and thanking them for letting them be poor
Posted 2009-04-11 17:42:17
Koo82, on 2009-04-11 10:02:49, said: 10th April 2009. No weapon as per the law. Otherwise they would have been cleared by tear gas.
Bunch of wanke_rs!
#511
Oberkommando
Posted 2009-04-11 17:43:40
henryalleman, on 2009-04-11 17:33:15, said: And its also a fact that most Thai believe that the democrats are far less corrupt than other parties, Chuan for instance has a great respect for that matter even amongst his enemies.
Chuan's nickname 'The Painter' comes from his staunch defence of his government members accused of corruption.
Not to mention the National Counter Corruption Commission found him guilty of asset concealment.
And let's not even mention his brother.
He's just another pig at the trough, don't kid yourself otherwise.
He's also very friendly with those nasty Burmese Generals.
Edited by Oberkommando, 2009-04-11 17:44:55.
Posted 2009-04-11 17:49:17
jbhh, on 2009-04-11 16:25:09, said: sinewave, on 2009-04-11 16:18:11, said: as bad as this is for thailand and the government, it is even worse for Thaksin.
Did I miss something here? Or did you accidentally say "even worse" instead of "a light at the end of the tunnel"?
Thaksin is showing his true colors to the delegates of the ASEAN summit, wasting their time and actually putting them in harms way.
ASEAN is for the good of the region, Thaksin is showing he has no disregard for the good of the region by disrupting the summit.
No disregard for anyone but himself.
There are times for everything, disrupting the ASEAN summit for the development of the region is not one of them. Policies are made at the summit and now the policies are put on hold because of Thaksin, I can't think of any delegate that would see any good in his actions, especialy during a looming world economic slowdown where policies are needed more than ever.
Aphisit's lack of action is correct, let the delegates feel the full flavor of Thaksin's wrath, the taste may just end up being too bitter to swallow.
If you were one of the delegates and felt at danger...who would you blame? the instigater or the protector?
you do not need a protector if there is no instigator.
Posted 2009-04-11 17:53:39
I find it interesting that while a great number of people are belaboring the current government for being too weak, Jakrapob made these comments today at around 3 PM. The comments below are from www.2bangkok.com:
"Jakrapob Penkair is speaking in English on DTV now (around 3 PM today) to address the international community. He explains that the Red Shirts were ambushed and injured while trying to enter the summit hotel and two taxi drivers were shot. The Red Shirt moved into the hotel to escape attacks from people throwing rocks and to put pressure on the government. The message they wanted to tell the Asean leaders was that the Red Shirts were being attacked in their peaceful protest. He further says that the Red Shirts gatherings will continue past Songkran and will not end until the PM and Privy Councilors will resign as the Thai people are fed up with the aristocracy. He pleads with the international press to spread this message to their readers before more people are killed by the "vicious" Abhisit government."
I wonder if anyone really believes this crap.
Posted 2009-04-11 17:57:07
RubbaJohnny, on 2009-04-11 11:20:43, said: Let us not be too critical of poor barely educated who try hard could do better
When the level headed Dutch, the revolting French and Fighting Irish who voted in EU refernda
Their mandate was not respected.
wrong, the referenda was about an EU constitution, the Dutch, French and Irish voted NO. Result the EU constitution was NOT implemented.
Please get your facts straight
Posted 2009-04-11 18:01:49
h90, on 2009-04-11 13:10:22, said: ironhut, on 2009-04-11 13:06:18, said: As reported, the Asean Summit has been called off. Unconfirmed, but likely true. Many news agencies are also pulling out for fear of safety. World leaders are advised to leave when they can.
something similar ever seen anywhere else worldwide??
No, H90, unless you count 5 months ago when your Yellow Mob did the same thing, Oh, excuse me they did not evade the summit because the Yellow Mob caused the PM to cancel it because they could not meet to set up the summit, do you remember or are you just to yellow colored to remember history.
Posted 2009-04-11 18:04:21
sinewave, on 2009-04-11 17:49:17, said: jbhh, on 2009-04-11 16:25:09, said: sinewave, on 2009-04-11 16:18:11, said: as bad as this is for thailand and the government, it is even worse for Thaksin.
Did I miss something here? Or did you accidentally say "even worse" instead of "a light at the end of the tunnel"?
Thaksin is showing his true colors to the delegates of the ASEAN summit, wasting their time and actually putting them in harms way.
ASEAN is for the good of the region, Thaksin is showing he has no disregard for the good of the region by disrupting the summit.
No disregard for anyone but himself.
There are times for everything, disrupting the ASEAN summit for the development of the region is not one of them. Policies are made at the summit and now the policies are put on hold because of Thaksin, I can't think of any delegate that would see any good in his actions, especialy during a looming world economic slowdown where policies are needed more than ever.
Aphisit's lack of action is correct, let the delegates feel the full flavor of Thaksin's wrath, the taste may just end up being too bitter to swallow.
If you were one of the delegates and felt at danger...who would you blame? the instigater or the protector?
you do not need a protector if there is no instigator.
Total rubbish imho...
The only person looking very stupid indeed is Abhisit. He is in disgrace after inviting all the others to a summit in the wrong place at the wrong time and hosted by the wrong person and his team. They promised all would go ahead and all would be secure and they showed they have neither competence or the support of their people. Abhisit and his fellow muppets showed themselves to be totally out of their depth and all the other delegates have gone away laughing at him and Thailand.
Time to apologise and give up as it ain't for him. He ain't no Obama now is he!
Posted 2009-04-11 18:05:46
henryalleman, on 2009-04-11 10:33:15, said: Thai at Heart, on 2009-04-11 10:20:31, said: Henry, I think to say that there isn't general support is a very dangerous idea. Just as the yellows had a silent level of support, there is a silent level of support for the reds. Simply because people don't actively protest doesn't mean that a lot of people are dissatisfied with the antics of the army, the PAD and the Dems over the last couple of years.
I have seen and heard more discussion about the short term and long term future for Thailand amongst Thai's in the last year than in any of the previous 20 I have been here. People feel very uneasy about which way the country will go.
In my interpretation there is a feeling that if the status quo doesn't change now, the so called elites/Bangkokians/Chinese business owners will have the country to themselves just at a time when the poor believed (rightly or wrongly)they may have had a champion to further their cause in the near future. It is extremely difficult to engender loyalty to the current system when it hasn't got you any further than planting rice on rented land.
Whilst I don't believe that the ideas of the reds appeal to an overwhelming majority of Thai's, I think it appeals to more people than the ideas propagated by the PAD. As for the Dems, well they haven't had any major appeal outside their strongholds in recent years. Is this down to brainwashing or corruption or I reckon more probably that the poor outside of the South don't believe they have ever really done anything for them?
Edited - Quotes didn't work
Thai at Heart.
Of course its my personal opinion, and so is yours. Its all depend in wich environment you stay. I confess that I have more connections in the Thai urban society.
But the contacts that I have in Isan and North, do like to end the current situation, and non of them believe that Thaksin is the answer. His image is just damaged too much. And yes they feel neglected, but they also know dam_n well that Thaksin is using them like a prostitute for his own gain.
And the recent stimulus from the present government regarding education, 2000 Baht, free water and so on is highly appreciated.
Also don't underestimate the fact that Abhisit is good looking, polite,well behaving and well spoken. For westerners its maybe rather irrelevant but you, as I know, its still very important in Thai culture.
Why otherwise Thai soap and their stars are so popular.
And indeed I agree with you that Thailand needs big social reforms, but who are the leaders of the red brigade you can trust to deliver it. Is it Chalerm, Samak or some other of the tree stooges?
And its also a fact that most Thai believe that the democrats are far less corrupt than other parties, Chuan for instance has a great respect for that matter even amongst his enemies.
And as I suggested in an other topic. Lets evaluate the situation end of next week.
BTW, my nickname is not Thai at Heart but I can vow to you that my concern and empathy for the unprivileged in Thai society is immense, due to my many travels all over the country.
And that's why I believe that changes in the society can only be reached by education, and this is exactly one of the major targets of the present government, together with establishing a good health care. And that is again what the present government did, the 30 baht health scheme didn't work before and only after a few months its works almost perfectly now, as everybody can testify.
So give this government the benefit of the doubt till the next elections who are any how held next year. And don't you agree that due to the current worldwide economical collapse its not good to have a paralyzed government who must spend months in campaigning and after that spend months in negotiations to form a new government. Or are you so sure that the opposition will win this elections with an overwhelming majority. And again, do you honestly believe that the reds have able statesman to rule the country in the present economical situation. I think you can agree that Chalerm or Samak are definitely not those men.
I too have travelled out into the villages in agricultural development. I have seen rural village living north, south, east and west of the country. There are places there that but for the fact that the people can essentially feed themselves, would be classed as poverty by any persons measurement. The farmers often don't own their land, and are simply feeding their produce into Bangkok based and owned processing and export companies.
I have seen the contracts that farmers have to sign to supply x or y company. They are in debt from day one and find it extremely hard or virtually impossible to extricate themselves from these contracts so are tied to a company in perpetuity until the debt is repaid. The companies manipulate the government of the day to mess with the prices and bingo, the little man gets screwed. The system absolutely sucks and I can understand why having someone who increases the minimum prices, throws 1mn baht into the village, and appears to promise them healthcare can generate quite a lot of popularity pretty quickly.
Of course, the situation is that stability should be the order of the day, but that is looking at it from a farang, international business perspective. There is inevitable change coming to the system some day in Thailand and the poor don't give a dam_n about GDP today or interest rates. All they know is that they are poor and if there is a government of the day that doesn't or hasn't given a dam_n about them ever before what are the odds that the government of the day is all of a sudden going to proclaim that as a target they want rural development as a priority?
They will back anyone who shows them a glimmer of hope of a better future. Wouldn't you?
PS I know Abhisit has been busy but where is his rural development plan?
Posted 2009-04-11 18:06:38
Old Man River, on 2009-04-11 17:53:39, said: I find it interesting that while a great number of people are belaboring the current government for being too weak, Jakrapob made these comments today at around 3 PM. The comments below are from www.2bangkok.com:
"Jakrapob Penkair is speaking in English on DTV now (around 3 PM today) to address the international community. He explains that the Red Shirts were ambushed and injured while trying to enter the summit hotel and two taxi drivers were shot. The Red Shirt moved into the hotel to escape attacks from people throwing rocks and to put pressure on the government. The message they wanted to tell the Asean leaders was that the Red Shirts were being attacked in their peaceful protest. He further says that the Red Shirts gatherings will continue past Songkran and will not end until the PM and Privy Councilors will resign as the Thai people are fed up with the aristocracy. He pleads with the international press to spread this message to their readers before more people are killed by the "vicious" Abhisit government."
I wonder if anyone really believes this crap.
I do....
Edited by edwardmoulton, 2009-04-11 18:07:59.
Posted 2009-04-11 18:06:40
MyphuketLife, on 2009-04-11 16:47:03, said: neverdie, on 2009-04-11 16:32:11, said: rainman, on 2009-04-11 16:15:48, said: neverdie, on 2009-04-11 16:11:55, said: Rainman, you disappeared for a while there. Out washing the blood out of one of your red t-shirts?? 
Wow, you were really close there with that guess.
No, actually I was supervising the construction of our house, in specific at that moment, the kitchen. I almost missed your dumb comments for a while, too.
Need any more details or does that satisfy you for now? 
Well you only posted 19 seconds after my post, so you couldnt of really been supervising anything.....you been attending the reds school of how to lie and not get caught out....or were you secretely hiding in on the yellows school of the same lesson?
As I said before, your jumping up and down like a one legged man in an arse kicking contest....you should remove your red underwear and sniff......it stinks.
wow why such attacks neverdie? you should not attack TV members in this fasion it makes you look more foolish than the avatar you sport...
I thought most TV members are old farangs (no offense, intended), but I am surprised to see such kids' fight.
Posted 2009-04-11 18:07:56
khonkaen man, on 2009-04-11 17:38:20, said: From some of the post on this thread it is more than apparent, that those decrying what the red shirt do, have more than likely never visited the North and North east of Thailand. I am not a Thaksin supporter but I would never be a Democrat. Until Thaksin came along the poor would get a visit just before election time, by the Dems, who would promise them the world then win the election and clear off back to Bkk and do nothing for the poor.
Thaksin gave them a little something in return for there votes, he was not stupid he realised that you had to throw down some corn for the poor. I am sure we all agree that all Thai politicians are corrupt( well most) so Mr T is no different to any of the others. The elite have used the Dems to further their wealth with the support of the army and ringed by an institution I am not allowed to talk about.
Thaksin has is own agenda and the poor have theirs and the only chance for the poor to achieve their agenda is by pinning all thier hopes on Mr T.
A previous poster said that this was a conflict between Royalists and Republicans and that to me is 100% correct. The poor have never had a leader who took on the establishment, now they have and he aint going away. Unfortunately history shows us that to reach true democracy we have to have bloodshed. Not a nice thought but the poor are no longer wai-ing to the elite and thanking them for letting them be poor
thaksin's populists policies targets the poor, obviously, and there's nothing wrong about that. yes, he had done something, in fact, lot's of things for the poor that's why they've loved him. but do you really think thaksin is a missionary? he did all those things to get momentum in the region and the poor majority; to get votes, or buy it. he's a typical joe politician scumbag, a businessman for a profit, lot's of it in fact. thaksin will sell thailand for his own good/interest. i'm not anti-thaksin and not pro-democrats and i can see both sides have their own problems but i would be on the side of the ones who will protect the royal institution; in this time, the democrats. let's not be blind, thaksin and his group are a threat to the RI at this moment in time, they want revolution as we all knew it but afraid to speak about it. unfortunately, thailand must not let this happen as they cannot handle it, not without the RI.
what i want to see now is that, restore the peace and country's security, thaksin should stop messing up with the current government and go home to defend himself in the court of law, arrests the red and yellow shirted leaders, and after a couple of years have a free and democratic election.
Edited by LuckyFive8888, 2009-04-11 18:14:59.
Posted 2009-04-11 18:11:17
rainman, on 2009-04-11 15:59:22, said: I would hate to be Abhisit now. The feeling in your stomach that you finally became PM and then you have to step down again after such a short time must really not be a nice one. If he had only played it smart and called for free elections right away, he would have been PM for a long time. People would have probably voted for him too. But by clinging on to power and not letting go, he gave the momentum back to Thaksin.
I'm guessing though, that you are at least a good driver.
Posted 2009-04-11 18:13:21
Oh good, here we go....
The big muscle coming in:
http://www.bangkokpo...nt-to-muscle-up
Civil war unless Abhisit shows he has some diplomacy skills and stands down...
Posted 2009-04-11 18:16:56
Koo82, on 2009-04-11 14:59:56, said: JacknDanny, on 2009-04-11 14:49:58, said: Abhisit just been talking live, saying they are trying to get things back to normal.
Back to normal is to be back like when we had Khun Thaksin as Prime Minister.
Koo, Thaksin is never, ever coming back. He gets further away everyday. He is closer than ever to being involved in an accidental plane crash. He's a dead man walking.
Posted 2009-04-11 18:22:37
lannarebirth, on 2009-04-11 18:16:56, said: Koo82, on 2009-04-11 14:59:56, said: JacknDanny, on 2009-04-11 14:49:58, said: Abhisit just been talking live, saying they are trying to get things back to normal.
Back to normal is to be back like when we had Khun Thaksin as Prime Minister.
Koo, Thaksin is never, ever coming back. He gets further away everyday. He is closer than ever to being involved in an accidental plane crash. He's a dead man walking.
 You think anyone in this government could organise that when they cannot even organise a meeting in a hotel with months to prepare... And if anything happens to Thaksin he is an even bigger motivator as a martyr! Theya re not that stupid... or are they???
Posted 2009-04-11 18:22:50
Old Man River, on 2009-04-11 17:53:39, said: I find it interesting that while a great number of people are belaboring the current government for being too weak, Jakrapob made these comments today at around 3 PM. The comments below are from www.2bangkok.com:
"Jakrapob Penkair is speaking in English on DTV now (around 3 PM today) to address the international community. He explains that the Red Shirts were ambushed and injured while trying to enter the summit hotel and two taxi drivers were shot. The Red Shirt moved into the hotel to escape attacks from people throwing rocks and to put pressure on the government. The message they wanted to tell the Asean leaders was that the Red Shirts were being attacked in their peaceful protest. He further says that the Red Shirts gatherings will continue past Songkran and will not end until the PM and Privy Councilors will resign as the Thai people are fed up with the aristocracy. He pleads with the international press to spread this message to their readers before more people are killed by the "vicious" Abhisit government."
I wonder if anyone really believes this crap.
hahaha, that's the kind of spin that i would expect on fox news or something. The reds/trt/thaksin really live in this fantasy lalaland and will use anyhting to rationalize their criminal actions instigated by their criminal leader. The fact that the army and police let this happen like they did with the PAD airport seizure means it's another bodyblow to democracy in thailand.
Is there nobody that will stand up for democracy in this country? To stand up against yellow shirted and red shirted thugs that rule this country. To lock up that authoritarian criminal thug called thaksin together with his banned posse of cronies in what ever the trt is called these days and hold some proper elections. Oh champion of the people were art thou?
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