Posted 2009-04-13 18:55:36
 Oberkommando, on 2009-04-13 18:14:41, said:
From Bloopers.
Many firearms (including the M-16, M-60 and SLR) cannot fire on auto or semi-auto when using blanks. They can only fire once and then must be manually recocked.
The Reason:
When one of these weapons fires a bullet, expanding gases push the bullet out the barrel. As an opposite reaction, the gas also recocks the weapon. Without a bullet, there is nothing for the bullet to push against, so the next bullet is not loaded. To get around this, soldiers place a BFD (Blank Firing Device) on the end of the barrel (or replace the barrel for a M-60).
Some of the M16s I have seen being fired are loaded with full mags with no BFA and being fired repeatedly so must be firing live ammo.
I don't know the M16, but on the STG-72 it is a small screw which you wouldn't recognize on a photo.
Posted 2009-04-13 19:09:58
Posted 2009-04-13 19:26:30
h90, on 2009-04-13 18:55:36, said: Oberkommando, on 2009-04-13 18:14:41, said: From Bloopers.
Many firearms (including the M-16, M-60 and SLR) cannot fire on auto or semi-auto when using blanks. They can only fire once and then must be manually recocked.
The Reason:
When one of these weapons fires a bullet, expanding gases push the bullet out the barrel. As an opposite reaction, the gas also recocks the weapon. Without a bullet, there is nothing for the bullet to push against, so the next bullet is not loaded. To get around this, soldiers place a BFD (Blank Firing Device) on the end of the barrel (or replace the barrel for a M-60).
Some of the M16s I have seen being fired are loaded with full mags with no BFA and being fired repeatedly so must be firing live ammo.
I don't know the M16, but on the STG-72 it is a small screw which you wouldn't recognize on a photo.
It is 30 years since I used the M16 with blanks, but the BFA back then looked pretty much like they do now and they are hard to miss!
Posted 2009-04-13 19:26:46
This is from the official manual..
bfa.JPG 152.5K
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BFA blank
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M16 cartridge
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Edited by mrparanoid, 2009-04-13 19:27:26.
Posted 2009-04-13 19:40:14
So what we are saying is that anyone stating they are only firing blanks or these paper bullets, are doing one of two things.
Talking about something of which they have no knowledge.
Or...............
Lying.
Correct?
Posted 2009-04-13 19:44:06
mrparanoid, on 2009-04-13 19:26:46, said:
They didn't had the flash suppressor installed on the pics I saw.
So they could use a smaller device (just a screw with a hole to increase pressure).
It would need someone who knows what Thailand uses...any Thai here who was at the army?
Posted 2009-04-13 19:44:57
Merangue, on 2009-04-13 19:40:14, said: So what we are saying is that anyone stating they are only firing blanks or these paper bullets, are doing one of two things.
Talking about something of which they have no knowledge.
Or...............
Lying.
Correct?
Why you think so?
Posted 2009-04-13 19:48:58
been a long while since i hold a M16 , back in my training days , and range run , Blank Round that had been used , have a Black . plastic like Tips .
if i recall correctly . if the type of bullet had been used , you can easily find tons of the twisted plastic like shell . on the ground .
what is strange is that - after saying so much about no live round been fire into the protestor .
this morning when i was watching the news ..
i saw the army pushing a Pink taxi away .. with tons of bullet hole on the taxi .
and the bullet hole is kinda like from thwa army direction .. if tehre are firing into the air ..where did those bullet hole come from .. and if those bullet hole is all from the protestor ..
i think if you just go arrest the red proestor and you will have answer how JFK is killed -- magic bullet don't come cheap i guess
Edited by Ta22, 2009-04-13 19:50:08.
Posted 2009-04-13 19:51:10
Not Black Songkran, a Red, blood Red Songkran.  to say lot of blood shed in the LAND OF SMILES this Day.  come on red shirts, yellow shirts, blue shirts, army, government snap out of it, should be  in the Kindgom and you all are acting like SPOIL kids that can't get what they want.    OUT
Edited by BigSnake, 2009-04-13 19:53:09.
Posted 2009-04-13 19:58:07
This remind me of the movie . " GANGs OF NEW YORK "
whahhaah i think the PM and Taksin should come one on one on the street and everyone can bet - and whom ever win . the war end ..
why is it every war is fight by the blind and fooled while the real player sit well protected in their castle .
--
Posted 2009-04-13 19:59:30
OptimusPrimeBKK, on 2009-04-13 18:21:01, said: Oberkommando, on 2009-04-13 18:05:14, said: OptimusPrimeBKK, on 2009-04-13 18:00:55, said: Oberkommando, on 2009-04-13 17:55:57, said: As none of the firearms (M16s) are fitted with BFA's (blank firing adaptors) that are required to fire and cycle blank ammo I have to conclude that live rounds are being used.
Anyone even mildly familiar with assault weapon technology could only come to the same conclusion.
And yet no reports of any fatalities? Either they are great shots, or really bad shots? Or there is something else going on, that is perhaps beyond our ability to explain?
There have been reports of injuries due to gunshot wounds though.
The red-shirts are claiming there have been fatalities although no proof yet.
But back to my original point and that is blank rounds cannot cycle in an M16 without a BFA, and that's a fact. Not enough pressure to chamber the following round you see.
I accept your explanation, as I have no knowledge of those things. My question is, why are no media (international CNN, BBC, AJ) or local, reporting any fatalies? Almost every image today has been broadcast live on local tv.
They must be piss poor shots considering reports of thousands of rounds being fired and the only reported gunshot wounds are four soldiers shot by red shirts.
Posted 2009-04-13 20:00:28
The Nation reports 24 seriously injured, so even if no dead its just pure luck, not skill.
Posted 2009-04-13 20:06:22
mrparanoid, on 2009-04-13 18:43:48, said: Oberkommando, on 2009-04-13 12:55:57, said: As none of the firearms (M16s) are fitted with BFA's (blank firing adaptors) that are required to fire and cycle blank ammo I have to conclude that live rounds are being used.
Anyone even mildly familiar with assault weapon technology could only come to the same conclusion.
Finally someone who knows what he is talking about.. I agree 100% ..Good post Ober.. 
Live rounds
M16 without BFA adaptor
M16 without BFA adaptor
M16 with BFA adaptor
Wouldn't it be kind of stupid for the military to have blank adaptors fitted to their rifles? It takes several seconds to unwind the BFA from the barrel and would kind of scream out "Look at us, we're idiots!!!"
Posted 2009-04-13 20:09:56
cougar52, on 2009-04-13 19:09:58, said:
The link in broken for youtube vid. But i know what you are talking about. I have those same bullet hole stickers in my truck 
Posted 2009-04-13 20:19:58
gbt71fa, on 2009-04-13 15:06:22, said: Wouldn't it be kind of stupid for the military to have blank adaptors fitted to their rifles? It takes several seconds to unwind the BFA from the barrel and would kind of scream out "Look at us, we're idiots!!!"
Look at the pictures.. No adaptors. No blank rounds. He is loading the magazine with live rounds. I never said they should or shouldn't have bfa's fitted. I just uploaded the pictures to show they do NOT have any bfa adaptors and they ARE using live rounds. That's all.
Posted 2009-04-13 20:43:09
This should all be fairly easy to determine by interviewing local residents over the next couple of days. If that many soldiers charged forward firing live ammunition into the area there will be severe damage to the surrounding structures and, almost surely, at least some incidental casualties - if only pets and car tires and what not. If you can't find any evidence of bullets hitting stuff then nothing of substance exited the muzzle. I have no opinion on what did or did not happen, but I'm a firm believer in empirical evidence and by this time during the most explosive yellow shirt protests we had video and many pictures of a guy with his leg blown off and other things. hel_l, drive by Klong Toey market and there's a giant picture up of the guy the Pinkertons shot there last week. As of right now we have some pictures of people in bad shape, no doubt, but there's no way the people running PR for the red shirts would miss a chance to show off obvious bullet wound photos. Absolutely no way. The fact that nothing demonstrative has emerged is not exculpatory of the military, but it does tend to cast doubt on claims of tons of live ammo having been used.
Posted 2009-04-13 20:50:03
asiawatcher, on 2009-04-13 16:48:56, said: The claims of the spokesperson at 4:45pm was the bullets they are using a called practice rounds with paper wads. Checking with a film industry armourer he said they are correct, they make the same noise as fired bullets, and they have a lot of 'dust' which is evident in all footage I have seen so far. But he also said the 'blanks' used in Thailand simply do not work and cannot be used in film work. So you can also bet the 'media' black out, such that it is - will continue as to truth. Right now they claimed there is only one protester who is in critical condition and the rest have been treated and released. Believe it or not...
PS - I also saw full ammo loads going into issued M16's
We saw that, too. Reds are claiming some of them have been killed. Govt. denies completely. Anyone know anything about this? So hard to watch tv now....bad reception all day.
Posted 2009-04-13 20:55:29
gbt71fa, on 2009-04-13 20:06:22, said: mrparanoid, on 2009-04-13 18:43:48, said: Oberkommando, on 2009-04-13 12:55:57, said: As none of the firearms (M16s) are fitted with BFA's (blank firing adaptors) that are required to fire and cycle blank ammo I have to conclude that live rounds are being used.
Anyone even mildly familiar with assault weapon technology could only come to the same conclusion.
Finally someone who knows what he is talking about.. I agree 100% ..Good post Ober..
Live rounds
M16 without BFA adaptor
M16 without BFA adaptor
M16 with BFA adaptor
Wouldn't it be kind of stupid for the military to have blank adaptors fitted to their rifles? It takes several seconds to unwind the BFA from the barrel and would kind of scream out "Look at us, we're idiots!!!"
yes that's a good argument, as well you have two different ammunition in your pocket and I don't know what happens if you shoot the real one with the adaptor fitted.
Posted 2009-04-13 21:12:26
asiawatcher, on 2009-04-13 18:45:51, said: Correct - No yellow gas canisters attached to any of the rifles I saw firing. No gas no reload - certainly not firing blanks. So how do we explain firing levelled at the crowd - no question it was not in the air? And no casualties? The mystery deepens... 
The best way that I can explain it is that you're wrong and they ARE shooting blanks. That's a far more logical conclusion than some self proclaimed gun experts making conclusions from photos.
Posted 2009-04-13 21:14:03
Seems to be B&S ranting on and on, to an audience of about three. Editorialising indignantly and never wittily, undeviating from his usual idee fixe, and reproducing every article written about Thailand without the courtesy of a link to justify the piracy.
So, no, I think i'll read Thai Visa instead.
Posted 2009-04-13 21:24:10
Seconded.
Posted 2009-04-13 21:29:07
Updated: [April 13, 2009 ] :: 14:28:59 [view 684]
BANGKOK - RED SHIRT LEADERS CLAIM COVER UP BY THAI MEDIA
Here are the latest developments from the crisis in Bangkok today, 13th April 2009:
07.30 am: The protester’s leader addressed the Thai military from the government house, asking all them to join the red shirt instead of being ordered by the government which is under the control of the previous coup makers.
07.35 am: Another leader, Jatuporn was informed by Dr. Apiwan, Vice President of the National Assembly that the Peu Thai party’s MPs would be examining the government’s actions and then join the protesters.
07.36 am: Jatuporn announced to all Thai people that Apisit and Suthep were now the criminals. He also asked General Anupong Paojinda for the return of the dead bodies of the victims for their funerals.
09.10 am: Dr. Choochai Kunathai, the director of the Veterans Hospital gave an interview to TPBS TV. Channel. He said the hospital had received 32 injured victims. Their injuries had been varied. Some had been beaten with hard object and had sustained serious wounds. Others suffered from gunshot wounds. Army and police officers had sustained only minor injuries; none had bullet wounds.
Meanwhile the Ramatibbordee Hospital revealed that had received 24 injured, all with minor injuries, and only required an operation. Some of the victims had sustained gunshot wounds, all of whom were protesters.
09.20 am: Miss Sukanda Sinkajit, a reporter from TPBS reported that the local reporters received complaints by the protesters that they were not reporting the truth. 09.30 am: The protesters requested a vast supply of drinking water.
10.00 am: A high ranking police official, Pol.Lt.Gen. Chat Kuladilok warned the army they had been tricked into killing people by being told they were protecting the monarchy. He said the fact is they were being used by high ranking generals [the group belonging to the King’s advisor, Prem Tinnasulanon]. Pol.Lt.Gen. Chat also requested all the doctors, nurses and reporters, to speak the truth and not cover up for anybody.
10.08 am: Rescue foundation staff joined the protesters on stage and said they had collected dead bodies and delivered them to the Rajvithi Hospital. Other bodies were taken away by GMC trucks belonging to the army.
10.10 am: The Nation Channel aired its first report about the doctor who demanded the government report the truth.
10.30 am: Mr. Niran Gulathanun, an academic for democracy revealed that the Network of Academics recommended three solutions to the crisis: 1. The government has to stop using violence to suppress the protesters. 2. The government leaders should listen to the ever increasing voices of the people and dissolve the parliament. 3. They rejected outright any attempted coup.
11.25 am: Weng Tohjirakan, a protester’s leader announced the deadline to the government to withdraw the troop within 3 hours otherwise the people from all around Thailand would fight back and Apisit will have to take responsibility.
11.30 am: Jatuporn announced on the stage, that according to inside information the government’s latest meeting with the army had come to 6 conclusions:
1. The officials were not able to close down the D-Station [the democracy TV. Station], which had been forced off air several times over the last 48 hours.
2. The Red taxi and motorbike supporters were an added complication in the suppression of the protesters.
3. Officials cannot control the Red Shirt supporters up country.
4. Apisit, Suthep and all the army and the police commanders should remain in the army camp.
5. They will attempt to block food and drink supplies to the protesters.
6. They will order the media owners to a meeting and make them present the news the way the government wants.
may
News Type : Political
Story : PDN STAFF
Photo :
Translater : Sirithanon
This is very interesting and I find it enlightening in view of what is put in the Nation and BP. PDN is the Pattaya Daily News
Posted 2009-04-13 21:29:52
Local radio is reporting over 300 dead and 2000 injured. Rather a stark contrast to govt. reports.
Posted 2009-04-13 22:00:33
tropo, on 2009-04-13 16:12:26, said: asiawatcher, on 2009-04-13 18:45:51, said: Correct - No yellow gas canisters attached to any of the rifles I saw firing. No gas no reload - certainly not firing blanks. So how do we explain firing levelled at the crowd - no question it was not in the air? And no casualties? The mystery deepens...
The best way that I can explain it is that you're wrong and they ARE shooting blanks. That's a far more logical conclusion than some self proclaimed gun experts making conclusions from photos.
Yes.. You are the only expert here of course.. And all us other posters are retards.
The M16 is not a gun you can fully automatic fire blanks from or any other "harmless" bullet unless you attach some kind of very visible adaptor. There is also loads of pictures on the net showing soldiers re-filling their clips with live rounds.
Quote
The M-16 is a 5.56mm weapon, which is too small a caliber for an effective
non-penetrating round. If you fire a 5.56mm projectile slowly enough that
it won't punch holes through people, it won't have enough energy to do
much of anything at all. It would be the functional equivilant of a
BB gun.
"Rubber bullet" rounds for the M-16 and similar weapons are steel spheres
half an inch or so in diameter coated with a thin layer of rubber or plastic.
They are loaded, singly and from the muzzle, into a cylindrical tube attached
to the barrel of the weapon, and launched by firing a blank cartridge from
the rifle. Hence the device seen in the photographs.
Not as effective as a dedicated rubber-bullet-firing weapon would be, but it
has the distinct advantage of allowing you to fire regular bullets if the
crowd you are controlling turns out to be more violent than you expected.
--
*John Schilling
*Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP
*Chief Scientist & General Partner
*White Elephant Research, LLC End quote
And of course SKYNEWS is not to be trusted either right?
SNAG_0378.jpg 64.99K
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SNAG_0377.jpg 100.21K
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SNAG_0376.jpg 93.18K
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Most live rounds were fired into the air or into the few buses that were driven towards the soldiers, but some of it were fired into crowds. Give it a day or two for pictures to surface on the net.
I'm not commenting on wether it is wrong or right to use live rounds, only that live rounds ARE being used.
Edited by mrparanoid, 2009-04-13 22:03:13.
Posted 2009-04-13 22:04:32
cmsally, on 2009-04-13 21:29:52, said: Local radio is reporting over 300 dead and 2000 injured. Rather a stark contrast to govt. reports.
Thank you for that report Sally. That's certainly a startling claim in light of other reports we're reading. Did the radio report detail where this carnage took place, and by whom, and what has become of the bodies/injured?
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