149 replies to this topic
Posted 2009-04-17 07:07:53
 jupiler, on 2009-04-17 06:34:00, said:
I think it has to do with a lack of interest, and not with skills.
Everything on radio and tv in the Kingdom is for nearly 99,9% in Thai language. They dubbing all the movies.Exept who's working in the tourism industry, the majority of the people here have hardly any contact with the English grammar!
and long shall that remain - bravo
Posted 2009-04-17 07:53:27
GungaDin, on 2009-04-16 21:53:44, said: I have a Q too.
Mental arithmetic
If Thais are taught by rote. how come they can't add up, multiply, subtract or divide in their head?
I haven't seen a shop assistant who can do the simplest addition without a Casio.
They're amazed that I can give them an answer before they have finished with their calculator. 
They spend too much (if not all) of their time to learn the bloody Thai letters and subsequent language. Nothing left to learn something else, I guess 
Posted 2009-04-17 07:53:34
GuestHouse, on 2009-04-16 22:19:36, said: Quote I know plenty of brilliant Thai's from outside of Thailand.
Well I can assure you I know plenty of brilliant Thais from inside Thailand.
It's my guess that 9 tenths of the foreigners living in Thailand can't string a coherent sentence together in the Thai language - beyond ordering another beer or some food.
Immersed in the language and unable, or unwilling to learn it and yet critical of Thai English language skills.
I don't get your point.
The OP is about someone who wants to be an English teacher so her ability and that of her teacher are being questioned.
Most foreigners in Thailand are not or do not aspire to teaching Thai so there is no comparison.
Posted 2009-04-17 08:03:17
Quote Do you or have you ever taught ANY subject here in Thailand
Well I've trained Thai engineers and supervised a couple of Thais through their Master Degrees... does that count.
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Quote Most foreigners in Thailand are not or do not aspire to teaching Thai so there is no comparison.
Most foreigners in Thailand are unable to grasp anything but the mere basics of the language - The point is - If they can't manage to do that, despite beng immersed in the language what are they doing criticising Thais.
The whole thread is derogatory and based upon ideas of what education ought to be of a particular brand/level/quality that I'm betting in truth is not met by the the vast majority of foreigners in Thailand.
But this is the internet, we can claim to be what we want to be - That the evidence on the ground suggests otherwise is no matter.
My own experience - Putting an engineering team together - I've seen very few expats that I would choose over a Thais.
Edited by GuestHouse, 2009-04-17 08:04:16.
Posted 2009-04-17 08:20:14
English teaching is in a sorry state here. Even Univ grads can hardly put a sentence together, unless they are English majors. Most of the secondary students are in the shopping malls every afternoon from noon onward.
Posted 2009-04-17 08:36:02
a2396, on 2009-04-17 08:20:14, said: Most of the secondary students are in the shopping malls every afternoon from noon onward. Correct. That's why their parents pay for extra classes. Most secondary students will not study on their own outside a classroom.
Posted 2009-04-17 08:52:44
GuestHouse, on 2009-04-17 09:03:17, said: Quote Do you or have you ever taught ANY subject here in Thailand
Well I've trained Thai engineers and supervised a couple of Thais through their Master Degrees... does that count.
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Quote Most foreigners in Thailand are not or do not aspire to teaching Thai so there is no comparison.
Most foreigners in Thailand are unable to grasp anything but the mere basics of the language - The point is - If they can't manage to do that, despite beng immersed in the language what are they doing criticising Thais.
The whole thread is derogatory and based upon ideas of what education ought to be of a particular brand/level/quality that I'm betting in truth is not met by the the vast majority of foreigners in Thailand.
But this is the internet, we can claim to be what we want to be - That the evidence on the ground suggests otherwise is no matter.
My own experience - Putting an engineering team together - I've seen very few expats that I would choose over a Thais.
Just because somebody cannot speak Thai does not mean they are unaware of the deficiency of an education system.
I am not a teacher of the Thai language and I have no intention of being one.
A Thai who wants to teach English needs to have a very good understanding of the language and in alot of cases I think that does not exist, a tragedy for the pupils who are being 'taught', this is the main gripe in this topic.
My own sister in law, Thai, is a State school English teacher. She a lovely girl but her understanding of the English language and teaching ability is limited to say the least. Her pupils deserve better and unfortunately will only get that if they pay to go private.
Posted 2009-04-17 09:22:53
My wife's sis has just finished senior/high school. She wants to be an english teacher and her parents are all up for it.
Reading skills are great, but there is no comprehension, of even a simple sentence. No understanding of what the words mean, let alone the gist of a whole sentence.
The parents are going to fork out x thousand baht to put her through uni, but I have doubts, if she is going to be a teacher is this the blind leading the blind, she's actually classed 3rd in the whole school for her abilities in english!
Is this the norm?
Is this just for english or accross the whole cariculum ?
When I was taught French at high school it was by the English maths teacher - French was the second of his teaching sessions.
Not sure how we would have behaved with a real French person but i'm sure I probaly learnt the same at that level no matter who taught me..
But if i wanted to learn a language at a higher level this would take me to college / university / private tuition / language school.
There I would expect to increase my skills and become as fluent as my old gray matter would let me.
So whats the issue with Thai's kids having Thai English teachers - they will teach them to read / write and basic grammar rules from these skills they can then make a judgement if they want to study English at a higher level after they finish high school.
Its there call
I think you mean "It 's their call"?
 There is always one grammar expert lurking - cheers for the correction 
jamesjdaly = whats your opinion of the average farang English teachers ability to teach Thais as we can make so many mistakes in our native tongue - that is if you know any?
No problem! My honest opinion of the average farang English teacher's ability to teach English falls way below the minimal standard. Some 'teachers' I have met shouldn't have even been given a yard brush. Why has Thailand let so many under qualified yobs into the teaching system?
------------------
because their employers don't realise how bad they are.
and, as in any job, there are those who have to protect their own jobs. no farang is going to admit to his or her poor teaching or engish skills
Posted 2009-04-17 09:32:46
jamesjdaly, on 2009-04-16 21:15:10, said: Donkey's years ago, I taught a group of Thai teachers of English at an MoE seminar over the course of a week. Atrocious, pathetic, terrible, appalling, sub-standard, laughable and depressing are the immediate words that spring to mind of their ability to even ededutter a choerent, simple sentence.
Lovely people, but totally uneducated in English teaching. Thailand will always be a sub-standard backwater in terms of language proficiency.
t
My G/F is an accountant and graduated from a BKK Uni... She speaks English well and has travelled to several countries.. Even so she was still astounded to discover that whales weren't fish and that the tides were affected by the Moon... I won't go into basic Geography or History as her grasp of those subjects is still terrible... I know that education has changed a lot in the West since I left school and less emphasis is placed on 'general knowledge', World events and History but I'm still amazed by just how little of what goes on in the World Thais understand. The just don't seem to have much interest either.. My GF is keen to ask questions but there doesn't seem to be any 'thirst' for knowledge.. Guess it just isn't important to them.
Posted 2009-04-17 10:06:39
Pdaz, on 2009-04-17 09:32:46, said: jamesjdaly, on 2009-04-16 21:15:10, said: Donkey's years ago, I taught a group of Thai teachers of English at an MoE seminar over the course of a week. Atrocious, pathetic, terrible, appalling, sub-standard, laughable and depressing are the immediate words that spring to mind of their ability to even ededutter a choerent, simple sentence.
Lovely people, but totally uneducated in English teaching. Thailand will always be a sub-standard backwater in terms of language proficiency.
t
My G/F is an accountant and graduated from a BKK Uni... She speaks English well and has travelled to several countries.. Even so she was still astounded to discover that whales weren't fish and that the tides were affected by the Moon... I won't go into basic Geography or History as her grasp of those subjects is still terrible... I know that education has changed a lot in the West since I left school and less emphasis is placed on 'general knowledge', World events and History but I'm still amazed by just how little of what goes on in the World Thais understand. The just don't seem to have much interest either.. My GF is keen to ask questions but there doesn't seem to be any 'thirst' for knowledge.. Guess it just isn't important to them.
I was preparing the top students at my school (M3 level, 14 year olds) for a general knowledge quiz, and asked them, "What is the name of the star that is closest to the earth?" None of them could answer. (It's the sun, obviously). The only things the Thai children are taught is Thai language, culture and history, and some math. For the most part, in all other school subjects, they complete their education at a primary school level by western standards.
Posted 2009-04-17 10:28:02
zaphodbeeblebrox, on 2009-04-17 10:06:39, said: Pdaz, on 2009-04-17 09:32:46, said: jamesjdaly, on 2009-04-16 21:15:10, said: Donkey's years ago, I taught a group of Thai teachers of English at an MoE seminar over the course of a week. Atrocious, pathetic, terrible, appalling, sub-standard, laughable and depressing are the immediate words that spring to mind of their ability to even ededutter a choerent, simple sentence.
Lovely people, but totally uneducated in English teaching. Thailand will always be a sub-standard backwater in terms of language proficiency.
t
My G/F is an accountant and graduated from a BKK Uni... She speaks English well and has travelled to several countries.. Even so she was still astounded to discover that whales weren't fish and that the tides were affected by the Moon... I won't go into basic Geography or History as her grasp of those subjects is still terrible... I know that education has changed a lot in the West since I left school and less emphasis is placed on 'general knowledge', World events and History but I'm still amazed by just how little of what goes on in the World Thais understand. The just don't seem to have much interest either.. My GF is keen to ask questions but there doesn't seem to be any 'thirst' for knowledge.. Guess it just isn't important to them.
I was preparing the top students at my school (M3 level, 14 year olds) for a general knowledge quiz, and asked them, "What is the name of the star that is closest to the earth?" None of them could answer. (It's the sun, obviously). The only things the Thai children are taught is Thai language, culture and history, and some math. For the most part, in all other school subjects, they complete their education at a primary school level by western standards.
As a retired professor with lots of teaching experience worldwide (including Thailand), I have to say that the education system in Thailand (from top to bottom) is terrible. And that is a compliment.
"They complete their education at a primary school level by western standards." Unfortunately, for many students that is how they exit the system at the university level.
There is no emphasis on independent thinking........no questioning reality........no focus on cultural relativism..........they finish their education with virtually no understanding of anything, and that includes structural systems in Thailand.
I think Vietnam and Cambodia are far ahead of Thailand in terms of training students to meet the increasingly difficult demands of the 21st century.
Posted 2009-04-17 10:49:29
jamesjdaly, on 2009-04-16 22:15:10, said: Donkey's years ago, I taught a group of Thai teachers of English at an MoE seminar over the course of a week. Atrocious, pathetic, terrible, appalling, sub-standard, laughable and depressing are the immediate words that spring to mind of their ability to even utter a choerent, simple sentence.
Lovely people, but totally uneducated in English teaching. Thailand will always be a sub-standard backwater in terms of language proficiency.
Until the labour shortage took hold, there were repeated efforts to introduce recertification examinations of primary and secondary school teachers in Canada and the USA. The powerful teacher unions resisted in large part because many teachers would have failed the exams. The quality of basic math and science education in these countries is an embarrassment. Try talking with some of the teachers and I believe that you would be shocked by many teachers' ignorance.
Having the benefit of a comprehensive education at a few of North America's better universities, I look back on my early education at a supposedly "elite" school and realize that a great many of my teachers were incompetent losers bereft of both communication skills and lucid thought. Maybe it was the booze that did some of them in, but I believe it was more likely due to the fact that they were idiots to begin with.
It is all relative.
Edited by geriatrickid, 2009-04-17 10:53:37.
Posted 2009-04-17 11:20:17
I think its safe to say the level of education (including english) gained from the "International School route" and "Thai education system" are not of a similar level.
I think when we look past the exam scores, we can see an approach to life that is different between thais and farangs, my problem I face at the moment is overcoming "face" with thais, this seems to get in the way when I try to change the way a thai does something. Simply explaining the reason or logic behind not doing something one way seems to be imparting blame on their side, which then causes an argument and thus the original point is then lost. Its a communication problem that seems to be inherited from culture differences.
Edited by ArranP, 2009-04-17 11:22:34.
Posted 2009-04-17 11:28:15
Freddie_fly, on 2009-04-17 00:45:16, said: My daughter at age 4, was reading the english books I brought back from the UK without too much problem, at age 3 I had her reciting the Alphabet, at age 6 I had UK books and we read together at night and I belived she was good. I seperated from her mother when she was 7, I paid school fees and extra learning fees. At age 9, I decided enough was enough and went to court, after 14 months I am now the sole legal guardian, In that three years when we were seperated, she went from having a good understanding of the basics, to losing it totally. Right now she is still reading English at the level of a 6-7 year old and cannot string sentences together. She is now in (what I consider) a reasonable school, with a thai teacher who has an american accent, But she is not improving, I dont believe now that it is her fault, I think that the teaching methods that are required here are not helping her. There just does not seem to be any imperative to educate these children, only give them the means to pass tests, What they really need to do (as teachers) is to get the kids interested, so they learn themselves, not indoctrinate them into a learning system that clearly doesnt work. The teaching methods here are 50 years out of date, unfortunately many schools, follow them and the result is young adults who cannot "think out of the box"............................but maybe that suits the people who really run this country.
regards
Freddie
All my fears right there in one senetence, thanks Fred, appreciate your honesty...
Posted 2009-04-17 12:15:24
I think the most asked question in LoS right now is....."ummm, where Nicalagua?"
I told my wife it was in central America, and she replies "oooh America" (meaning the US). She then skipped off gaily to the som tam cart with a new snippet of information!!
Posted 2009-04-17 12:21:50
Thai education is grossly inferior compared to that of the West in many ways.
Thais are hardly taught about other countries and cultures.
History is what happened to them a week ago.
Mainly the 3Rs pertaining to Thailand, English language not much above the basic, ABC.
It’s OK for those who have no ambitions other than to live and work in Thailand for the rest of their lives, a Thai BA or MBA holds no recognition abroad.
Posted 2009-04-17 12:35:58
GuestHouse, on 2009-04-17 08:03:17, said: Quote Do you or have you ever taught ANY subject here in Thailand
Well I've trained Thai engineers and supervised a couple of Thais through their Master Degrees... does that count.
---
Quote Most foreigners in Thailand are not or do not aspire to teaching Thai so there is no comparison.
Most foreigners in Thailand are unable to grasp anything but the mere basics of the language - The point is - If they can't manage to do that, despite beng immersed in the language what are they doing criticising Thais.
The whole thread is derogatory and based upon ideas of what education ought to be of a particular brand/level/quality that I'm betting in truth is not met by the the vast majority of foreigners in Thailand.
But this is the internet, we can claim to be what we want to be - That the evidence on the ground suggests otherwise is no matter.
My own experience - Putting an engineering team together - I've seen very few expats that I would choose over a Thais.
I am lying down while I type this as I feel faint. Why? Because for the very first time I am in complete agreement with something Guesthouse wrote. Excellent comment Guesthouse. Now, where is that Vick's inhaler?
Posted 2009-04-17 12:36:10
sassienie, on 2009-04-17 12:21:50, said: It's OK for those who have no ambitions other than to live and work in Thailand for the rest of their lives, a Thai BA or MBA holds no recognition abroad.
Edited by jamesjdaly, 2009-04-17 12:36:44.
Posted 2009-04-17 12:48:37
Geekfreaklover, on 2009-04-17 00:10:21, said: GuestHouse, on 2009-04-16 22:19:36, said: Quote I know plenty of brilliant Thai's from outside of Thailand.
Well I can assure you I know plenty of brilliant Thais from inside Thailand.
It's my guess that 9 tenths of the foreigners living in Thailand can't string a coherent sentence together in the Thai language - beyond ordering another beer or some food.
Immersed in the language and unable, or unwilling to learn it and yet critical of Thai English language skills.
I think that the OP was reffering to students being taught English at Thai schools, rather than adults migrating to another country and learning the language. Obviously the younger the student begins to study a language the faster he/she will learn. It is much more difficult to pick up a new language when you are of advanced years. Most of the younger expats I know learn the basic spoken language here in a matter of months. Reading and writing takes a bit more time. We did not have lessons in Thai language at school but can get by quite well.
But back to the original question. I have taught 19-20 year olds English and their reading skills are amazing. I could hand them any book, Finnigans Wake, Moby Dick and they will read it cover to cover. The only problem being that they have not a clue as to what they are reading. I'm not talking about the overall understanding of the book. I'm talking about what a single sentance within the book means. Not a clue.
I've employed Thais with university degrees in English that can't put a simple spoken sentance together apart from ordering another beer or some food.
There is something wrong with the education system if you have a degree in English language and can' speak a single simple sentance in the English language.
there is also something wrong with someone who can misspell sentence while making a statement like this.
Posted 2009-04-17 12:52:43
Quote I am lying down while I type this as I feel faint. Why? Because for the very first time I am in complete agreement with something Guesthouse wrote. Excellent comment Guesthouse. Now, where is that Vick's inhaler?
I can lend you my ventolin if you wish.
But really, a bunch of foreigners judging the Thai education system on some dreamed up ideal standard - laced with the subtext 'Thailand needs well educated foreigners like ........ (Insert posters name).
Utter horse shite!
One only need read posts here on TV to understand that either the Western Education System is not what it is cracked up to be - or that ThaiVisa attracts a disproportionate number of people who never paid attention when they were in the Western Education System. Look around you .... we are awash with brain surgeons... NOT!
Posted 2009-04-17 13:01:33
i just watched an american on a quiz show who was unaware that Bavaria was in Germany and the that the official language of Australia was English. Poor education is not exclusively Thai.
The grammar in this thread, and indeed this site as a whole, does not do many of our own educational systems much credit.
Posted 2009-04-17 13:03:11
Quote As far as foreigners learning thais? what? you learned thai because you wanted easier bargirls?
No I learned Thai out of respect for the people in who's fine country I'm a guest.
Quote Only people interested in learning thais are those who live in a village, those who are too fat to get bargirls, those who are overfriendly and the very fews that just feel like learning a dead language(let's face it, theres not many more entertainement in thai than in latin, thai comedy is horrible, movies same same, plays do no exist and dancing show has no words) instead of learning something else.
Odd that, as I also have Latin.
And I note, that in the absence of an intelligent, or even coherent argument, you resort to the Argumentum ad Hominem - well good for you (and people are on here decrying the Thai education system) while bigotry among all these highly educated foreigners goes un challenged.
Posted 2009-04-17 13:14:13
thaicbr, on 2009-04-17 00:18:50, said: AND for your information I asked a class of Thai students (18-23) if THEY could name a Thai inventor or invention (it was part of their book study) and WOW not one of them could. I proposed the King as a good Thai inventor.
who was of course educated outside Thailand, as was the current Prime Minister, and probably the majority of the leaders of Thailand
Posted 2009-04-17 13:24:04
GuestHouse, on 2009-04-16 22:21:35, said: Quote It's Thailand, they are not taught free thinking its generally rote learning, that's why you don't see many Thai inventions.
Allan
And tell us Allan - what inventions have you come up with?
Mr GuestHouse, I assume you are a 'Wannabe Thai.' Defender of the unseen!
Although to be fair Thais have invented a number of items: namely the hammock and the coconut cup. Oh, and the loudest speakers on the planet
Posted 2009-04-17 13:25:07
zaphodbeeblebrox, on 2009-04-17 04:06:39, said: Pdaz, on 2009-04-17 09:32:46, said: jamesjdaly, on 2009-04-16 21:15:10, said: Donkey's years ago, I taught a group of Thai teachers of English at an MoE seminar over the course of a week. Atrocious, pathetic, terrible, appalling, sub-standard, laughable and depressing are the immediate words that spring to mind of their ability to even ededutter a choerent, simple sentence.
Lovely people, but totally uneducated in English teaching. Thailand will always be a sub-standard backwater in terms of language proficiency.
t
My G/F is an accountant and graduated from a BKK Uni... She speaks English well and has travelled to several countries.. Even so she was still astounded to discover that whales weren't fish and that the tides were affected by the Moon... I won't go into basic Geography or History as her grasp of those subjects is still terrible... I know that education has changed a lot in the West since I left school and less emphasis is placed on 'general knowledge', World events and History but I'm still amazed by just how little of what goes on in the World Thais understand. The just don't seem to have much interest either.. My GF is keen to ask questions but there doesn't seem to be any 'thirst' for knowledge.. Guess it just isn't important to them.
I was preparing the top students at my school (M3 level, 14 year olds) for a general knowledge quiz, and asked them, "What is the name of the star that is closest to the earth?" None of them could answer. (It's the sun, obviously). The only things the Thai children are taught is Thai language, culture and history, and some math. For the most part, in all other school subjects, they complete their education at a primary school level by western standards.
If, perchance, you would not mind indulging the curiosity of an elderly and pedantic farang with strong concerns relating to the standard of basic education in Thailand, could you answer for me the following questions:
1. Was your session with your students conducted in the English language or in Thai?
2. If I were to ask you to name for me the planet nearest to the earth, what would be your response?
3. If one of your students had given you the answer "Proxima Centauri" would you classify him or her as having given a good or a bad response?
4. Purely as a guess, if you had put the same question (in the English language) to a bunch of average pupils of the same age in an average London comprehensive school, what level of "correct" responses would you expect?
5. Was the context of your session such that your students were expecting trick questions?
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