I have a solution to your problem. Don't buy The Nation. Problem fixed.
i do that already. i don't buy what The Nation want to tell me.
one have to schizophrenic to believe all that inconsistent nonsense and to fool himself if he want still argue that The Nation is a real newspaper.
actually i enjoy reading the The Nation, the entertaining value is much higher than in Not The Nation. the later just simplified the advance comedy of The Nation. additional fun is to see all these people who don't get it and argue The Nation is a real newspaper.
It is all about freedom of choice. Some on TV argue for having the right to freedom of choice, democracy etc., but when it is something they don't agree with, they laugh at others for exercising their freedom of choice. You don't like The Nation, don't buy it. I like the Nation, I buy it. It is all about freedom of choice.
I have a solution to your problem. Don't buy The Nation. Problem fixed.
i do that already. i don't buy what The Nation want to tell me.
one have to schizophrenic to believe all that inconsistent nonsense and to fool himself if he want still argue that The Nation is a real newspaper.
actually i enjoy reading the The Nation, the entertaining value is much higher than in Not The Nation. the later just simplified the advance comedy of The Nation. additional fun is to see all these people who don't get it and argue The Nation is a real newspaper.
It is all about freedom of choice. Some on TV argue for having the right to freedom of choice, democracy etc., but when it is something they don't agree with, they laugh at others for exercising their freedom of choice. You don't like The Nation, don't buy it. I like the Nation, I buy it. It is all about freedom of choice.
There is an interesting point about reds and media now.They are currently claiming the entire Thai media is bias and against them. Funny how many yellow supporters claim Matichon and Khao Sod are red mouthpieces. That on the red riot and operation to break it up that the local and international media were basically hand in glovbe on how it was reproted is intersting too. To date the reds havent lambasted the international media as a group.
Comparing the media and colour relationship also expsoes similarities. When the yellow GH occupation was starting to prove unpopular and as the move to airport came the yellows started attacking the media as bias. When the redd started mass blockades of Bangkok and ASEAN/riot came along they claimed the media was bias and said they couldnt protect them from their supporters. It seems as unpopular acts increase the media has to be accused of bias to try and minimise the loss of support over stupid acts. Attacking the messenger rather than the message is a very old tactic and usually overemployed when the message is hard to attack as it contains to much truth or too much evidence and attacker lacks any real defence.
I have a solution to your problem. Don't buy The Nation. Problem fixed.
i do that already. i don't buy what The Nation want to tell me.
one have to schizophrenic to believe all that inconsistent nonsense and to fool himself if he want still argue that The Nation is a real newspaper.
actually i enjoy reading the The Nation, the entertaining value is much higher than in Not The Nation. the later just simplified the advance comedy of The Nation. additional fun is to see all these people who don't get it and argue The Nation is a real newspaper.
It is all about freedom of choice. Some on TV argue for having the right to freedom of choice, democracy etc., but when it is something they don't agree with, they laugh at others for exercising their freedom of choice. You don't like The Nation, don't buy it. I like the Nation, I buy it. It is all about freedom of choice.
There is an interesting point about reds and media now.They are currently claiming the entire Thai media is bias and against them. Funny how many yellow supporters claim Matichon and Khao Sod are red mouthpieces. That on the red riot and operation to break it up that the local and international media were basically hand in glovbe on how it was reproted is intersting too. To date the reds havent lambasted the international media as a group.
Comparing the media and colour relationship also expsoes similarities. When the yellow GH occupation was starting to prove unpopular and as the move to airport came the yellows started attacking the media as bias. When the redd started mass blockades of Bangkok and ASEAN/riot came along they claimed the media was bias and said they couldnt protect them from their supporters. It seems as unpopular acts increase the media has to be accused of bias to try and minimise the loss of support over stupid acts. Attacking the messenger rather than the message is a very old tactic and usually overemployed when the message is hard to attack as it contains to much truth or too much evidence and attacker lacks any real defence.
go to my last two entries one page back. i am just talking about quality and reliability of information given by The Nation. to proof my point i exercice this one example, the reports about the assassination attempt on the PAD leader on bail.
it doesn't matter if you are wearing a blue, red, yellow shirt or drag or whatever. what is written by The Nation you can not take as FACT.
they publish something without verify and double-check their information. articles lack accuracy.
the messenger got attack when the message contains to much truth or too much evidence, you say? look, for my criticism on The Nation one member jumped on my nickname, one other thought i would be witty to tell me just not buy The Nation. both ignoring the content of my message.
and containing the messages that The Nation brings to us "truth" and "evidence"? sure?
and a phrase like : Newin Chidchob, leader of the blue shirts and government faction leader is not obscure or an example for the lack of proof reading or editing before one press the publish button?
i just can take The Nation for serious, i wish they would have more reliable information for me. i wrote abou that 'how to' be better in my other post.
and i don't think it's to much if i demand, that The Nation also should named the location and time of an interview or how some information was obtained or what is the nature of the source.
if someone else is satisfied with that mickey mouse journalism and doesn't see any needs for improvement, up to them. if they additional declaim, critism on their subject of glorification violates their freedom and democracy at all - now that is just funny. a little bit like the Nation itself.
@ old man - are you Nation staff? i found that webboard here linked on The Nation online. it's maybe not fine to bitch about the landlord when i am guest in his house, but i don't think that this is a pure fan board. and on other newspaper boards i never heard such reply, but with The Nation seems everything possible. and listen to critics helps to improve. and with a better back up Thanong wouldn't have to rely on his standard "you can not understand because your are not thai " defence.
on the other side an improved The Nation would spoil the fun. and that slightly improved The Nation would wake up the environmentalist in me and my new argument would be - waste of paper.
For English News, I usually get it from TAN NETWORK (TOC) and then check the information for accuracy with all the other English Speaking media, I can get my hands on. If TAN manages to fill their airspace with programs, instead of mindless, repetitive commercials, it will be even better, but in the meantime, I still like it for it's news, financial commentaries and Asian programming.
To me, both the Nation and the Bangkok Post, lack quality reporters. (or maybe they just don't have enough reporters on the job). Like anything else in this country, they are trying to make a lot of profit and giving very little substance in return :-(
The nation and Thaivisa made a partnership deal a few months back.
But I have not seen any change in Thai Visa FORUM content since that time.
Many or most of the regular posters, post consistently to their philosophies.
A rotating contingent of nay sayers and trolls try to twist the general commentary pro-Thaksin.
Usually in short repeated bursts. Then demanding proof that something DID NOT happen.
i.e. prove what doesn't exist, doesn't exist...or what doesn't exist, DOES exist.
A regular bunch of neo-socialist, retro-democracy philosophers,
and anti-elite/monarchist populists inter-leave their personal socio-political bias,
intertwined with Thaksin's or some of the Issan folk's motivations.
And several international posters letting us know how informed
or mis-informed they are from outside of country.
Many with assorted biases, but coming across as honest.
The absolutist red-shirt true believers are still here,
but some seem recently co-opted by red shirt mentors,
using their well meaning zealotry to spread the party line,
using cut and paste to further the general party line.
This leads to obvious changes in writing style and language ability shifts.
In general The Nations partnering of Thaivisa hasn't seemed more than
a masthead ad space within this forum. As it should be.
But as trolls and repeated returns of banned posters get, in turn, banned again,
it proves limited fodder for the Red lovers to cry 'Nation twists things to their way'.
yada yada yada yada... Just not so.
Read the Nation, read the Post, read Bangkok Pundit and Shawn Crispin, and Thitinan...
READ EVERYBODY...left, right and center. Listen to the Red shirts stage pronouncements,
and Jackrabbitpods press releases from hiding, after he hopped off to safer warrens,
and then read here and use it as a source to others sources.
The picture YOU put together from MULTIPLE sources is likely the most accurate.
There are few neutral sources,
but what is common to all sources is likely close to the truth.
Animatic: It is interesting how your observation gave none of the Pad faithful have any discernible negative traits. It is interesting that any believe in the red shirt's cause equals troll , or robot, or banned poster. Why would that be? Do you think having an opinion different than your own deserves banishment?
Have you considered that you are a wee bit over the edge of sober judgment when it comes to your obsession with the PAD.
How could you possibly discern neutral reporting. If Sondhi was Hitler you'd be goose stepping down sukamvit
And by the way I am not for the reds I am for Thai people escaping feudalism which keeps real education from the masses and all advantages for the establishment. The red side represents that possibility just as much as the yellow side opposes it. Thaksin is yesterday get over it.
@ old man - are you Nation staff? i found that webboard here linked on The Nation online. it's maybe not fine to bitch about the landlord when i am guest in his house, but i don't think that this is a pure fan board. and on other newspaper boards i never heard such reply, but with The Nation seems everything possible. and listen to critics helps to improve. and with a better back up Thanong wouldn't have to rely on his standard "you can not understand because your are not thai " defence.
on the other side an improved The Nation would spoil the fun. and that slightly improved The Nation would wake up the environmentalist in me and my new argument would be - waste of paper.
It is Old Man River which is the title to a song I like. You pounce on The Nation for not being able to get its facts right, but you get something wrong that is so easy.
My view on newspapers is that I never believe everything I read. I read more than one view and then decide for myself. I don't rely on any journalist to tell me what I believe.
I am not employed by The Nation. I am surprised that you would think so. On Thanong, I have had many discussions with him and I often argue with him, but he has never once made the comment that I cannot understand because I am not Thai.
@ old man - are you Nation staff? i found that webboard here linked on The Nation online. it's maybe not fine to bitch about the landlord when i am guest in his house, but i don't think that this is a pure fan board. and on other newspaper boards i never heard such reply, but with The Nation seems everything possible. and listen to critics helps to improve. and with a better back up Thanong wouldn't have to rely on his standard "you can not understand because your are not thai " defence.
on the other side an improved The Nation would spoil the fun. and that slightly improved The Nation would wake up the environmentalist in me and my new argument would be - waste of paper.
It is Old Man River which is the title to a song I like. You pounce on The Nation for not being able to get its facts right, but you get something wrong that is so easy.
My view on newspapers is that I never believe everything I read. I read more than one view and then decide for myself. I don't rely on any journalist to tell me what I believe.
I am not employed by The Nation. I am surprised that you would think so. On Thanong, I have had many discussions with him and I often argue with him, but he has never once made the comment that I cannot understand because I am not Thai.
That is commendable in this day and age when so many across the world just seem to be taken in by constant noise from an organ close to their politcal belief. Not just thinking of ASTV and DTV here but also Fox, Sun etc... Murdoch might be the master of thought control but others have learned
[Kattiya:] Shooters of Sondhi's car believed to be in military
A high-profile military figure, Major-General Kattiya Sawasdiphol, believed that Sondhi’s shooters were military personnel who took the job on order, but could not complete the task because they had never worked with moving targets.
Major-General Kattiya, a well-known military figure, talked today (April 20) about the shooting on Mr. Sondhi Limtongkul, one of the core leaders of the PAD, that he personally believed that the shooters were someone in the military who took the task on order. However, due to being inexperienced and having never worked with moving targets before, they failed the task.
From the collected evidence, it was believed that there must have been more than 3 shooters at the incident scene using M-16, HK33, and M-79 guns, which had been specifically designed to assassinate people.
Furthermore, Major-General Kattiya also pointed out that after conducting the ambush, the shooters went back to Thewet Intersection, an area under military supervision.
In terms of the incentive leading to the shooting, Major-General Kattiya stated that it could have stemmed from the divergences partially brought upon the nation by the PAD protester group.
- ThaiNews / 2009-04-20
UPDATE... he's been convicted and sentenced to prison... but, the jail time is suspended
Sae Daeng gets suspended sentence
The Criminal Court on Monday sentenced Major-General Kattiya Sawasdipol, known as Sae Daeng, to two months' imprisonment for defaming former National Police Chief Seripisut Temiyavej.
Because Sae Daeng is a senior officer and had not faced a criminal charge before, his jail term was suspended for two years.
He was also fined 20,000 baht and ordered to publish the court's ruling in three Thai-language newspapers for seven consecutive days.
The Criminal Court on Monday sentenced Major-General Kattiya Sawasdipol, known as Sae Daeng, to two months' imprisonment for defaming former National Police Chief Seripisut Temiyavej.
Because Sae Daeng is a senior officer and had not faced a criminal charge before, his jail term was suspended for two years.
He was also fined 20,000 baht and ordered to publish the court's ruling in three Thai-language newspapers for seven consecutive days.
Continued:
-- Bangkok Post 2009-04-27
yep, that thailand. Sae Daeng have some issues with some higher ups from the police about corruption and that all and he get's a charge for defamation. and that wasn't the first time.
but because he is one who fights such corruption issues, the thai people love him. he is a folk hero like Insee Daeng.
i wish him the best. silly court ruling anyway.
police bashing is also a favourite on thai visa and with such defamation and libel laws, one have to be careful what is said on the internet as well.
and why you don't give the direct link to the article, instead of just link to the main page. makes it much more easy for the user. i prefere to read the text on it's original source instead of that copy paste version in the forum. thank you.
Animatic: It is interesting how your observation gave none of the Pad faithful have any discernible negative traits. It is interesting that any believe in the red shirt's cause equals troll , or robot, or banned poster. Why would that be? Do you think having an opinion different than your own deserves banishment?
Have you considered that you are a wee bit over the edge of sober judgment when it comes to your obsession with the PAD.
How could you possibly discern neutral reporting. If Sondhi was Hitler you'd be goose stepping down sukamvit
And by the way I am not for the reds I am for Thai people escaping feudalism which keeps real education from the masses and all advantages for the establishment. The red side represents that possibility just as much as the yellow side opposes it. Thaksin is yesterday get over it.
I find so few 'PAD Faithful' actually exist I didn't comment on them.
I do see several who agree on some PAD points,
and distinctly and consistently disagree on others
So I don't think of them as PAD faithful.
I have never met a PAD member ever.
No, not all red backers are trolls, but there are several that are.
I actually listed several variations, but not all.
I am not obsessed with PAD at all, I am if anything quite anti Thaksin,
and brought there by his own words aqnd actions, and not by PAD's.
But in the arbitrary grand brush strokes of this debate anti-Thaksin MUST be proPAD zealot.
Just utter tripe that idea.
If a poster is permanently banned for breaking rules, regardless of their side,
I do NOT think they get a free pass to come back under a different handle and start up again.
Drole, goose stepping, what a card you are.
You seem to think I have some connection with Sondhi, and you are incorrect.
I have also said that I am against the entrenched feudalism,
but to ease away from it not some wrenching violent dislocation of society,
which too often spins society into the hands of zealots or violent idiots.
And I have always been against the bad and pedantic schooling of most Thais,
I have NEVER said anything different ever.
When I see a truely original and creative Thai artist,
I embrace his individuality because it was so hard won.
Your last statement is telling.
Only reds want people to be educated, huh,
and yet the Dems have increased school funding and food in the last 2 months.
You act like reds are one homogeneous group and the same for yellows,
but that has NEVER been the case. They are, each side, a glossed over almagam
of many different parallel forces all looking to not get stepped on by others.
MANY PARALLEL FORCES COMBING ON SOME ISSUES AND DIVERGING GREATLY ON OTHERS.
They are some very bad yellows who are not for freedom for all and education for the masses,
All movements have their fringe fanatics, it is inevitable as white on rice,
there are also many who ARE for freedom of the masses and better education for them.
But that gets lost in the talking points of the 'other side',
because it doesn't make a differentiation against the other side.
No differntiation us against them, and thus no culture war
and thus no power to change things for your own profit.
The ONE consistent point for the yellows was not subjugating the masses,
but removing Thaksin's political machine and crony capitalist thieves
from the controls of the voting blocks.
That is the one consistent Yellow thread I have seen.
Others with differing motivations AND most with that one, grouped together.
There is no ONE RED and no ONE YELLOW and each diametrically opposed.
That is a construction by the opposing side to build it's own sides hatred
and use that as a wedge within society.
Thaksin's only hope is to harness rage to his advantage, so he is creating rage, from enui.
And I argue against the ones I see the most often using disinformation
and yelled propaganda to change the dialog. I don't that often rebut
a cogent arguement even if I disagree. But I pref looking at points
and not the broad white washing strokes of the movement itself,
because that is more push pull PR than reality.
If I maye appear anti-red it is because I find the red side co-opted and ruined by Thakson's minions,
skewed and mis-managed, and thus not safe to have at the controls of this fine nations.
But NOT because I am pro yellow.
I don't want EITHER Extremist vision to take control.
If I maye appear anti-red it is because I find the red side co-opted and ruined by Thakson's minions,
skewed and mis-managed, and thus not safe to have at the controls of this fine nations.
But NOT because I am pro yellow.
I don't want EITHER Extremist vision to take control.
Fair comment, Now i f you could just have a chat with Plus and H20, We might get past some of these circular arguments that are achieving nothing at all
Thaksin is on ice IMO.
I don't for a minute think Thaksin is presently neutralized,
He is uncharacteristically quiet at the moment....
...while his pile of cash is still on the block in court.
There is the crux of this biscuit.
He IS likely currently analyzing the "Hail Mary Pass" he needs to do soon.
He has lost is main route, but that will only make him MORE disparate.
And my guess is it will be over the top and nasty as hel_l.
Do, or die trying, and taking many with him.
His list of options is rather small,
but his ego is no less dominant in his life.
And under heightened pressure his decision making falters observably...
So as long as his minions are turning the spit on the Red Shirts fires,
I will assume Thaksin is like 'Jaws', somewhere under the waves waiting for a big meal.
I would be lovely to rid the Red Shirts of Thaksin's manipulations definitively,
then maybe they COULD become the force for good they might have been in less avaricious hands.
But I really think a new entity MUST appear to collate the worthy goals of the more rational reds
and give a smooth, consistent, gradual, not shock treatment, change to society
for the good of ALL Thais.
I would be lovely to rid the Red Shirts of Thaksin's manipulations definitively,
then maybe they COULD become the force for good they might have been in less avaricious hands.
But I really think a new entity MUST appear to collate the worthy goals of the more rational reds
and give a smooth, consistent, gradual, not shock treatment, change to society
for the good of ALL Thais.
Isnt the 9th Infantry based at Kanchanaburi? Please correct me if wrong.
Edited to add: it really looks like Abhisit has to pull a military reshuffle if he wants to survive. Question is he in a position strong enough to do so, or is it so strong that rogue elements will come back on board?
Yes, you are correct they are based in Kanchanaburi.
9th division are close to Gen. Sonthi and were mobilised in the 2006 coup. Asia Times - Coup of 2006
Gen Sonthi was also the first person to ever propose an amnesty. There are all kinds of byzantine connections and things that dont make much sense concerning units based in Kanchanburi and power players other than our coup leader as well. All roads lead to the Kanchanburi maze on this one.
Former Army Chief General Chaiyasit Shinawatra believes the assassination attempt against PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul is not related to the 9th infantry unit of the Army, and he claims that there is no marksman in that unit.
Former Army Chief General Chaiyasit Shinawatra believes the assassination attempt against PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul is not related to the 9th infantry unit of the Army, and he claims that there is no marksman in that unit.
TAN 2009-04-28
wouldn't that make them even more suspect.
and which units have been in bangkok for the crackdown on the reds? they couldn't kill anybody as far as we know officially. or maybe it was someone from the batalion of combat nurses.
The press conference, to be held at 12.30 pm at Manager Daily headquarters on Phra Arthit Road in Bangkok, will be his first after the murder attempt. A meeting of core leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy will be held afterwards.
The press conference, to be held at 12.30 pm at Manager Daily headquarters on Phra Arthit Road in Bangkok, will be his first after the murder attempt. A meeting of core leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy will be held afterwards.
- THE NATION - 2009/04/28
Will be interersting. Everyone else has been motor mouthing it all over the place but Sondhi is waiting his time.
Former Army Chief General Chaiyasit Shinawatra believes the assassination attempt against PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul is not related to the 9th infantry unit of the Army, and he claims that there is no marksman in that unit.
TAN 2009-04-28
wouldn't that make them even more suspect.
and which units have been in bangkok for the crackdown on the reds? they couldn't kill anybody as far as we know officially. or maybe it was someone from the batalion of combat nurses.
Former Army Chief General Chaiyasit Shinawatra believes the assassination attempt against PAD leader Sondhi Limthongkul is not related to the 9th infantry unit of the Army, and he claims that there is no marksman in that unit.
TAN 2009-04-28
wouldn't that make them even more suspect.
and which units have been in bangkok for the crackdown on the reds? they couldn't kill anybody as far as we know officially. or maybe it was someone from the batalion of combat nurses.
Isn't his last name sound familiar to you?
yes, in the moment i pressed the send button. but for for that journalist news ticker menial of TAN obviously not important to point out. i guess the manager related "news" outlets don't have any archive and informations on file about all that important "mr. xsnss said that mr. yrmrr believes" news.
anyway, as long sriracha keep on track and published every known holiday move form anyone is suspect or otherwise involved, like the reds (bulletproof), dem's&army (shot but nobody dead), commies (commies) and so on it will be fine.
i found it interessting that that oversized TAN icon is a hyperlink to http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/, but there is also http://www.tannetwork.tv/. with both you get to the same page, same content. but nowhere on that site is noted who and where is the publisher or how it comes that in tuvalu is so much reported about thailand.
SONDHI'S ACCOUNT
Sondhi gives police account for first time since shooting
By The Nation
Published on May 1, 2009
Sondhi gives police account for first time since shooting
Deputy National Police Commissioner General Thanee Somboonsap interrogated People’s Alliance for Democracy coleader and media mogul Sondhi Limthongkul at the latter’s office yesterday. Thani heads an investigation into the assassination attempt on Sondhi,
Media mogul Sondhi Limthongkul spoke to the police for the first time since an attempt was made on his life on April 17 at his ASTVManager Daily offices.
Sondhi said he only trusted chief investigator Pol General Thanee Somboonsap, a deputy police chief, and would not speak to anyone else. He also said that he would identify the masterminds and those involved in the murder attempt to the press at 12.30pm today.
Thanee later played down reports that the police obtained clues identifying four suspects involved in the shooting - a civilian, two military officers and a borderpatrol policeman. However, the officer said he had contacted the Army about the standard procedures needed to question Army officers in criminal cases.
Sondhi dismissed reports that he was going on a pilgrimage to Nepal or India, saying that his belief in the "holy mission to take care of his country" had miraculously saved his life.
He added that the deputy Special Branch Bureau chief's statement that Sondhi himself had set up the assassination seek public sympathy saddened him.
Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said he could not confirm reports about the four suspects, while Deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban said yesterday that he would not worry about Sondhi's "tellall" statements to be made public today.
0
HagenvonTronje, on 2009-04-26 08:10:34, said:
It would never occur to him. Never.
