648 replies to this topic
Posted 2009-07-19 21:23:49
 balo, on 2009-07-11 11:17:41, said:
I know the Norwegian police have been trying to investigate this case on behalf of Julie Bergheims family , but no news about this in the media so far.
has any answers to how and why these young and healthy folks died. I would expect more from my home embassy about what they are doing.
Is there a travel warning about Phi Phi Island where they mysteriously were killed. Yes they were killed, they did not die from natural events. At least a boycott of the island should be in place until this mess is resolved. This really bothers me. WTF is going on !
Posted 2009-07-23 11:46:08
A 24 year old girl from Kuwait died last week.
Took a day trip to Phi Phi, had to go to hospital same night for coughing, dead by morning.
Warning: Graphic Image
http://www.siangtai....p?News_ID=22925
Posted 2009-07-23 13:42:31
I wonder if she had too much to drink that night as well? 
Posted 2009-07-23 15:33:23
Probably - most are closet alcoholics
Bubba
Posted 2009-07-23 15:39:11
sad, really.
Posted 2009-07-23 16:17:18
bkkjames, on 2009-07-23 13:42:31, said: I wonder if she had too much to drink that night as well?
I am guessing you are joking...........this makes victim number 8.........what is going on?
Why no answers?
And why does anyone still believe these are natural deaths?
Posted 2009-07-23 17:08:02
cmdream, on 2009-07-19 21:23:49, said: balo, on 2009-07-11 11:17:41, said: I know the Norwegian police have been trying to investigate this case on behalf of Julie Bergheims family , but no news about this in the media so far.
has any answers to how and why these young and healthy folks died. I would expect more from my home embassy about what they are doing.
Is there a travel warning about Phi Phi Island where they mysteriously were killed. Yes they were killed, they did not die from natural events. At least a boycott of the island should be in place until this mess is resolved. This really bothers me. WTF is going on !
In any country that actually gave a shit, there would be a proper investigation, and if there were unexplained deaths then the places concerned would probably be closed until the reason is known. What really sad is that a number of people have now died, and there appears no will to actually fin out the reasons. Probably another face saving exercise from the authorities.
Posted 2009-07-23 18:58:34
Absingjul, on 2009-07-23 11:46:08, said: A 24 year old girl from Kuwait died last week.
Took a day trip to Phi Phi, had to go to hospital same night for coughing, dead by morning.
Warning: Graphic Image
http://www.siangtai....p?News_ID=22925
In the news article they say she was a Kuwaiti student nurse on holiday in Thailand with her family. She fell ill in Patong in Phuket with a fever, cough and sneezing shortly after returning from Pi Pi Island.
She went to the hospital in Patong who gave her some medicine to take before she went to sleep. However after taking it and going to bed, she never woke up. The father thinks they may have given her the wrong medicine and they're waiting for an autopsy.
Condolences to the family.
Posted 2009-07-24 04:30:05
Late Breaking News:
Have we seen the smoking gun?
This just in from Jill St. Ong's memorial blog posted by RobbAce July 22, 2009 regarding Jill's autopsy reports from the Thai inquiry.
http://jillstonge.blogspot.com/
Quote The Thailand autopsy report is a joke. It was about three pages long and most of it was margin space and emblems. I believe here in the states an autopsy report starts at around 20 pages, and for something like what happened to Jill would be much longer.
It did verify that there were NO drugs or alcohol in her system, so those bogus rogue Thailand reports from "Government officials" can be put to rest. The only bit of information we got out of it was a low level of the enzyme Acetylcholinesterase. Please take a look at this Wiki page about what could cause this enzyme to be lowered.
http://en.wikipedia....erase_inhibitor
What are potential Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors? The list includes chemicals like nerve gas agents...
But more likely some form of organophosphate pesticide like Parathion for instance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parathion
Quote Parathion is a cholinesterase inhibitor. It generally disrupts the nervous system by inhibiting the acetylcholinesterase. It is absorbed via skin, mucous membranes, and orally. Absorbed Parathion is rapidly metabolized to Paraoxon, as described above. Paraoxon exposure can result in headaches, convulsions, poor vision, vomiting, abdominal pain, severe diarrhea, unconsciousness, tremor, dyspnea, and finally lung-edema as well as respiratory arrest. Quote Anticholinesterase poisoning
If one is regularly using carbamate and organophosphate pesticides, it is important to obtain a baseline cholinesterase test. Cholinesterase is an important enzyme of the nervous system, and these chemical groups kill pests, and potentially injure or kill humans by inhibiting cholinesterase
The evidence is scant but damning.
Either through negligence or malice it appears that these people have been poisoned.
Posted 2009-07-24 07:52:56
Cholera?
Quote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholera
Cholera
Cholera, sometimes known as Asiatic or epidemic cholera, is an infectious gastroenteritis caused by enterotoxin-producing strains of the bacterium Vibrio cholerae.[1][2] Transmission to humans occurs through eating food or drinking water contaminated with Vibrio cholerae from other cholera patients. The major reservoir for cholera was long assumed to be humans themselves, but considerable evidence exists that aquatic environments can serve as reservoirs of the bacteria.
Vibrio cholerae is a Gram-negative bacterium that produces cholera toxin, an enterotoxin, whose action on the mucosal epithelium lining of the small intestine is responsible for the disease's most salient characteristic, exhaustive diarrhea.[1] In its most severe forms, cholera is one of the most rapidly fatal illnesses known, and a healthy person's blood pressure may drop to hypotensive levels within an hour of the onset of symptoms; infected patients may die within three hours if medical treatment is not provided.[1] In a common scenario, the disease progresses from the first liquid stool to shock in 4 to 12 hours, with death following in 18 hours to several days, unless oral rehydration therapy is provided.[3][4]
The majority of reported cholera cases worldwide occur in Africa. It is estimated that most cases of cholera are unreported due to poor suveillance systems, particularly in Africa. Fatality rates are 5% of total cases in Africa, and less than 1% elsewhere.[5] For a map of recent international outbreaks, see:[3]
Treatment
In most cases cholera can be successfully treated with oral rehydration therapy. Prompt replacement of water and electrolytes is the principal treatment for cholera, as dehydration and electrolyte depletion occur rapidly. Oral rehydration therapy or ORT is highly effective, safe, and simple to administer. In situations where commercially produced ORT sachets are too expensive or difficult to obtain, alternative homemade solutions using various formulas of water, sugar, table salt, baking soda, and fruit offer less expensive methods of electrolyte repletion. In severe cholera cases with significant dehydration, the administration of intravenous rehydration solutions may be necessary.
Antibiotics shorten the course of the disease, and reduce the severity of the symptoms. However Oral rehydration therapy remains the principal treatment. Tetracycline is typically used as the primary antibiotic, although some strains of V. cholerae exist that have shown resistance. Other antibiotics that have been proven effective against V. cholerae include cotrimoxazole, erythromycin, doxycycline, chloramphenicol, and furazolidone.[6] Fluoroquinolones such as norfloxacin also may be used, but resistance has been reported.[7]
Rapid diagnostic assay methods are available for the identification of multidrug resistant V. cholerae.[8] New generation antimicrobials have been discovered which are effective against V. cholerae in in vitro studies.[9]
The success of treatment is significantly affected by the speed and method of treatment. If cholera patients are treated quickly and properly, the mortality rate is less than 1%; however, with untreated cholera the mortality rate rises to 50–60%.[10][11]
Posted 2009-07-24 07:55:30
Sounds like there's a serial killer who's fond of poisoning farangs. I certainly won't be heading there any time soon.
Posted 2009-07-24 12:44:13
Was that an intentional Red Herring "Mai Krap"?
Cholera? Really?
Please reread the entire thread to see that the symptoms of Cholera have nowhere been evident in either of these cases.
"Exhaustive Diarrhea" having never been mentioned in association with these cases or the pathologies that led to these deaths.
Furthermore IF it were Cholera that killed these folks the Thai investigators would have been able to report the presence of the bacterium Vibrio cholerae with much gusto and vindication.
I think it is fair to say that the cat is out of the bag.
Organophosphate pesticides are cheap, readily obtained and are among the most poisonous compounds used for such purposes.
For my part with nothing sought to gain, will not let this fade into silent obscurity.
Justice for the victims.
Edited by Nam Plah, 2009-07-24 12:55:19.
Posted 2009-07-24 13:41:19
Thanks for the new information from the autopsy.
I now believe we are talking about poison and that someone did this on purpose. I see no other reason to these horrible deaths.
Who will be the next victim ?
Edited by balo, 2009-07-24 13:42:51.
Posted 2009-07-24 14:06:41
Nam Plah, on 2009-07-24 12:44:13, said: Was that an intentional Red Herring "Mai Krap"?
Cholera? Really?
Please reread the entire thread to see that the symptoms of Cholera have nowhere been evident in either of these cases.
"Exhaustive Diarrhea" having never been mentioned in association with these cases or the pathologies that led to these deaths.
Furthermore IF it were Cholera that killed these folks the Thai investigators would have been able to report the presence of the bacterium Vibrio cholerae with much gusto and vindication.
I think it is fair to say that the cat is out of the bag.
Organophosphate pesticides are cheap, readily obtained and are among the most poisonous compounds used for such purposes.
For my part with nothing sought to gain, will not let this fade into silent obscurity.
Justice for the victims.
Not intended as a Red Herring, I would like to see this resolved as much as anybody. I will not be writing off cholera so quick though, will wait and see what medical testing can be done to prove it Cholera or not.
I suspect that if it is Cholera that is all the more reason for a large scale cover up as it is very scary for tourists. It would be easy to write off a couple accidental deaths. The Gov could even throw the guesthouse staff in prison and make a good show for the press. If it were to prove Cholera, there is no simple clean up as you would need to build a new infrastructure to dispose of waste correctly on Phi Phi and in Phuket.
May all the victims rest in peace as those of us who are still outraged by this tragedy search for answers.
Posted 2009-07-24 14:33:55
Mai Krap, on 2009-07-24 14:06:41, said: Nam Plah, on 2009-07-24 12:44:13, said: Was that an intentional Red Herring "Mai Krap"?
Cholera? Really?
Please reread the entire thread to see that the symptoms of Cholera have nowhere been evident in either of these cases.
"Exhaustive Diarrhea" having never been mentioned in association with these cases or the pathologies that led to these deaths.
Furthermore IF it were Cholera that killed these folks the Thai investigators would have been able to report the presence of the bacterium Vibrio cholerae with much gusto and vindication.
I think it is fair to say that the cat is out of the bag.
Organophosphate pesticides are cheap, readily obtained and are among the most poisonous compounds used for such purposes.
For my part with nothing sought to gain, will not let this fade into silent obscurity.
Justice for the victims.
Not intended as a Red Herring, I would like to see this resolved as much as anybody. I will not be writing off cholera so quick though, will wait and see what medical testing can be done to prove it Cholera or not.
I suspect that if it is Cholera that is all the more reason for a large scale cover up as it is very scary for tourists. It would be easy to write off a couple accidental deaths. The Gov could even throw the guesthouse staff in prison and make a good show for the press. If it were to prove Cholera, there is no simple clean up as you would need to build a new infrastructure to dispose of waste correctly on Phi Phi and in Phuket.
May all the victims rest in peace as those of us who are still outraged by this tragedy search for answers.
Ok I'll play....
Quote Fatality rates are 5% of total cases in Africa, and less than 1% elsewhere
Since we know of 4 people in this particular case affected and 2 have succumbed that puts the mortality rate at 50%.
The numbers don't add up, neither do the symptoms or findings from the blood/tissue samples or autopsy report.
Quote will wait and see what medical testing can be done to prove it Cholera or not.
Considering the fact that Jill St. John's body was cremated (in LOS) and her remains nonviable for testing at this point
I suspect your wait and see approach is the strategy that the local investigators are counting on...
Occam's razor has me looking in a different direction though.
Posted 2009-07-27 09:35:09
I still believe that the circumstances of the deaths of the two females on Phi Phi, along with the illnesses of their travel companions, do not seem to fit a typical outbreak of any virus or bacteria. By reading this entire post, chemical poisoning seems to fit much better as a cause. Regarding the death of the Kuwaiti visitor, there are still a lot of unknown facts but the death seems once again, suspicious. In all three cases of death of the female victims, they all became sick so rapidly that they were unable to seek help during the final stage of the illness. I was stationed on a large base in the Philippines for 4 years with 25,000 other troops and family members with occasional visits of over 2,000 troops for exercises. All the same conditions were present, heat, alcohol, and tropical diseases. However, had 2 unrelated, healthy, and young people that lived next to each other in one of the base's dormitories suddenly become ill and died, it would have been the biggest news of the decade. Nothing even close ever happened. Yes, people became very ill for many reasons, but never 2 strangers that lived next to each other followed by sudden death. Some may feel that this may be just something that happens often in 3rd world tropical countries but it doesn't. This kind of event requires negligence or malicious intent. Anyway, I can guarantee you that I will not be visiting Phi Phi anytime soon.
Regards -- Town
Posted 2009-07-27 11:31:28
I haven't checked on this thread since page 3 so with page 23 still speculating, I won't re-read everything. However, this possible poisoning by herbicides seems to hold credence for the moment?
The last time I was on Phi Phi was 1979 (overnighted after a storm coming back from Phang Nga). The place now bears no resemblance to what it was then so in order to control what would otherwise be overwhelming natural flora, is it feasible that all these developments use herbicides without regulation? Also assuming that these places pretty much share the same water table, is it feasible that the local water supply is contaminated? Possible that some establishments have water sources and/or storage that concentrates potential killer chemicals?
This theory may already have been raised and done away with so apologies if that is the case. However, anywhere else in the world, this would have been resolved by now so shame on the Provincial authorities for dragging their feet and on the government for letting this sit on a back-burner... while the nearby ASEAN pantomime grabbed the headlines.
Posted 2009-07-31 00:05:33
Quote is it feasible that all these developments use herbicides without regulation? Also assuming that these places pretty much share the same water table, is it feasible that the local water supply is contaminated? Possible that some establishments have water sources and/or storage that concentrates potential killer chemicals?
Had their been a mass poisoning where scores of people reported the same symptoms then I would have to agree that the public waterworks could have been contaminated.
But this case's reported severity of physiological symptoms and rapidity of mortality in succumbing to the heretofore "unknown pathogen" (now assumed to be an organophosphate pesticide due to the lab results reporting low Acetylcholinesterase blood levels) leads an astute observer to conclude that this was a discrete and targeted incident of poisoning.
All of those involved had in some manner reported a foul/chemical odor in the two affected rooms.
- Was pesticide used in an ill-advised manner in these rooms prior to check-in?
- Was there an accidental spill of said chemical(s)?
- Did someone purposely introduce toxic vapors to these rooms?
- Did the individuals purchase something that was impregnated with these chemicals (fruit or flowers) and either ingest or inhale the toxins inadvertently?
Why are we the only ones asking these questions?
Considering how dire the Tourist situation currently is in the LOS and that destinations like Koh Phi Phi Don rely on tourism for their local economy, having a spate of unsolved tourist deaths doesn't seem to be a very effective marketing draw.
If these were accidental poisonings the TAT and Government should make ammends to the families and ensure that similar indicents are avoided through proper safeguards.
Else if this is a criminal act the authorities should pursue the matter as a murder investigation and bring the perpetrators to justice.
As it stands currently this has become a case of; "Gee, I dunno, some kind of freak accidental thingie. It's a shame, oh well. Life goes on you know..."
Inexcusable.
Nuff said.
Posted 2009-07-31 08:11:53
Maybe now Embassies around the world should post a warning as some did ref: The Airport Scam , then maybe we can try and prevent further deaths .
All Tourists should be warned if going to Phi Phi Island.
considering that most people who have died have been in the company of friends or relatives , it seems odd that there are isolated deaths within those travelling.
Gases would affect more than one person , as for food items impregnated with toxic amounts of organophosphates , how much is needed in a lettuce leaf to kill you ?
This is very disturbing.
Serial killer sounds more like it.
Posted 2009-07-31 09:00:45
People should be made aware of this kind of problem. I think Governments should hand out warning cards to passengers flying into countries where corruption is endemic. They should be issued by the airline prior to checking in.
Posted 2009-07-31 14:42:07
Latest from the Phuketwan.
Quote At Laleena, owner Rat Chuped says seven of the 10 rooms are currently occupied . . . including Rooms Four and Five.
She still maintains that the guesthouse, owned with her husband since before the 2004 tsunami laid waste to the island, has no connection with the two deaths.
''I've called the police and an officer told me, 'Don't worry, everything is finished, it's over,'' she said to Phuketwan today. So the police are satisfied. The cover up is complete. It looks like we may never know the cause of the tragic deaths and its business as usual on Phi Phi.
Completely unacceptable and I still hope external pressures may discover the cause.
Posted 2009-07-31 17:04:37
The article is here: Phuketwan
Posted 2009-07-31 20:43:31
Quote The Thailand autopsy report is a joke. It was about three pages long and most of it was margin space and emblems. I believe here in the states an autopsy report starts at around 20 pages, and for something like what happened to Jill would be much longer.
It did verify that there were NO drugs or alcohol in her system, so those bogus rogue Thailand reports from "Government officials" can be put to rest. The only bit of information we got out of it was a low level of the enzyme Acetylcholinesterase. Please take a look at this Wiki page about what could cause this enzyme to be lowered.
http://en.wikipedia....erase_inhibitor
Yes, this fits well with the earlier conclusion - namely pesticide poisoning. Probably because the rooms were fumigated (a chemical smell was detected), and these two rooms with aircon had their windows shut, unlike the other rooms with no aircon where windows must have been open to let the fumes out.
Pesticides (organophosphates) are all powerful acetylcholinesterase inhibitors. It has nothing to do with cholera!
Obviously the guesthouse owner is not prepared to admit to fumigation - so it will be hard to prove.
Posted 2009-07-31 21:23:27
faranginbkk, on 2009-07-31 20:43:31, said: Quote The Thailand autopsy report is a joke. It was about three pages long and most of it was margin space and emblems. I believe here in the states an autopsy report starts at around 20 pages, and for something like what happened to Jill would be much longer.
It did verify that there were NO drugs or alcohol in her system, so those bogus rogue Thailand reports from "Government officials" can be put to rest. The only bit of information we got out of it was a low level of the enzyme Acetylcholinesterase. Please take a look at this Wiki page about what could cause this enzyme to be lowered.
http://en.wikipedia....erase_inhibitor
Yes, this fits well with the earlier conclusion - namely pesticide poisoning. Probably because the rooms were fumigated (a chemical smell was detected), and these two rooms with aircon had their windows shut, unlike the other rooms with no aircon where windows must have been open to let the fumes out.
Pesticides (organophosphates) are all powerful acetylcholinesterase inhibitors. It has nothing to do with cholera!
Obviously the guesthouse owner is not prepared to admit to fumigation - so it will be hard to prove.
Zyklon B was originally developed to kill lice and other creatures that lurk in clothing and rooms, just look what that does to people when administered in a confined space at a high room temperature.
As a matter of interest Zyklon B requires a higher dose to kill lice than it does to kill humans.
Posted 2009-08-04 05:32:28
Jills' family have started a campaign to warn people about the Laleena Guesthouse>>>
http://www. PhiPhiIslandDeaths.com
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