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60 replies to this topic
#26
Senior Member Posted 2009-05-07 17:21:57
Any TV member who actually buy's bootleg DVDs, CDs, or software is just wasting their money anyways. If the RIAA and MPAA are to be believed when you buy counterfeit items you are supporting terror OH NO! If I could just figure out how to download a Rollix from those Pirate Bay terrorist fellas... #27
Super Member Posted 2009-05-07 17:29:39
As for the "Pirated" DVD's, the quality has gone so far down the drain over the last couple of years, they are really not worth the trouble.
#28
Release the hounds Posted 2009-05-07 18:44:45
Another day in the life of Bangkok???
This has been going on for years, now. The U.S. releases their list (interesting that Canada was on the dirty dozen list this year, wonder why?) of the worst IP violators, the Thai police raid Patpong and other places like Pantip. Those who like to buy the pirated movies notice they can't for a few days/weeks, etc. Then, everything goes back to normal as the police like the bribes more than they care about IP violations of other countrys' movie companies. I mean, why would they care? Typically, you won't find pirated Thai movies on the streets (I suppose you could but my experience is it's more rare) as I guess the Thai movie companies have done something to ensure it won't happen too much, but why would they care about some Hollywood movies being pirated, I mean really? Who cares for goodness' sake. This is something that the night markets in Patpong, Nana, etc. are known for, fake goods and pirated movies. That is a large percentage of the vendors and it's obvious the police just choose when they want to enforce the laws in these situations. Will it ever change. I honestly think it won't, not for a long time, as this has been going on forever and yet in the end, after some confrontations, some people going to jail, etc. you always see the movie pirates back out there. As for saying it's unethical, etc. it's capitalism, more like it. People want the best product at the best price. For movies, this applies. Yes, some pirated movies are stupid camcorder rips, etc. but some of them are even better quality than if you bought it in the store in Bangkok. I've had it happen. Bought a perfect quality DVD off the street, compared it with one I bought at the store, and the one off the street was better viewing quality. If you go often and establish a relationship with a certain vendor you will always get the best quality from him/her. The best quality DVDs in the "real" stores are usually like 600 baht or more. Knowing for that price I could go see five movies in the cinema I always found the ones on discount in the store and frankly, never found one with great quality. For the average Thai, if they can get the same quality as the 600 baht DVD for 100-200 baht, why go to the store? Capitalism. The need is always going to be there in Bangkok, until the movie companies can realize Thailand is a different market and price their DVDs accordingly. #29
Senior Member #30
Diaper Changin' Member Posted 2009-05-07 18:58:31
Sounds like we need to send some of our law makers to "release" some of that pressure. I am sure some enterprising businessmen could arrange it down in Patpong. Or just wait. It's all just a show. They'll be back to regular business soon enough. #31
Senior Member Posted 2009-05-07 19:07:44
Here's my take ..... If a tourist buys a copy watch , handbag whatever how the hel_l can that affect or infringe on revenue from the original supplier or company. The tourist is not going to pay hundreds of dollars for an original rolex , gucci or any other brand. So what is the big deal. Also , the vendor makes his money, he employs thais, the copy factory employs thais who take money home to put food on the table. I for one am happy to buy a fake as I will never be able to buy the real thing and even if I had enough money I woundn't waste it on name brands anyway. If a poor person wants to buy a copy or fake then who is it hurting ??? I hope the Gucci's , Valentinos ect.. go bust.... good on the fakes  Tell me if i'm wrong ! Cheers.. steve, while I tend to hold the opinion that extortionist fee practices of certain software companies has lead to the huge counterfit problem its facing, stealing is stealing - call it what you want. I am not sure what business you are in but if you had someone knocking off your patented / copywrited products and services - you wouldn't be happy. I don't disgagree as to the 'immediate' commercial harm in having some tourist buy a fake rolex will have on the company - it doesn't make it right does it? The other day - I went to the licenced Man Utd store in Lad Prao and paid over the top price for a pair of shorts. I could have gotten something very similar on the street for 1/8th the cost I am sure. I chose not too. Why, it wasn't the difference in price - it's the fact that I wanted authentic garment that was hopefully produced in some properly run factory with ethical practices. I have my reasons - I am sure those who buy copies have their reasons. Are we at this stage in the world the of commerce where R&D and brand building are worth nothing though? anyways, the actions I would guess are window dressing yet again. Bad money pushing out the good... Let's look at it this way: You buy exclusive goods so that you can: 1. show you can afford it 2. Have goods that others can't afford and thus become more exclusive If counterfeiting allows people to appear to have a real item, this ultimately reduces the "value" of the original item. If you see aperson with a Rolex now, do you think it's real or that it's a fake ? Personally, I assume it's a fake and this means fewer people will want to buy a real Rolex because they'll have people assume it's a fake and then defend the fact that's it's real. So, the fake watch is driving out the authentic watch. People now look for other, more exclusive watches that haven't yet been pirated to the extreme. Another case I can think of is Burberry. It was originally thought to be the domain of the rich and famous until football hooligans started to wear Burberry baseball caps and scarfs. I bet the Burberry executives didn't rub their hands in glee at the "increase in sales", I bet they sat in shock horror as their market dynamics shifted and they lost the kind of customers they were after; i.e the ones that could afford Burberry outfits and not just baseball caps and scarfs. No self respecting hi-so would wear something a football hooligan is also wearing. Bad money drives out good. #32
Senior Member Posted 2009-05-07 19:57:10
It might all be part of the new tourist strategy. " we love to have your dollars, but do not stay too long and buy only in the shops controlled by us". I am afraid that this is another example of an incompetent government. If you like to crack down start in places like MBK or Panthip at least you do not get too much negative press abroad.
#33
Senior Member Posted 2009-05-07 20:53:51
Here's my take ..... If a tourist buys a copy watch , handbag whatever how the hel_l can that affect or infringe on revenue from the original supplier or company. The tourist is not going to pay hundreds of dollars for an original rolex , gucci or any other brand. So what is the big deal. Also , the vendor makes his money, he employs thais, the copy factory employs thais who take money home to put food on the table. I for one am happy to buy a fake as I will never be able to buy the real thing and even if I had enough money I woundn't waste it on name brands anyway. If a poor person wants to buy a copy or fake then who is it hurting ??? I hope the Gucci's , Valentinos ect.. go bust.... good on the fakes Tell me if i'm wrong ! Cheers.. While I respect your comment, I disagree ... If I want to buy an original I will.... end of storey , if I cannot afford I will buy the copy !! The US has alot to answer for and I for one would not even go there even if you gave me a free ticket. What about the pirated goods the US sells as mentioned in the earlier message !! What about all the one rule for us , one rule for them ... sorry , it just don't cut it .. cheers... steve, while I tend to hold the opinion that extortionist fee practices of certain software companies has lead to the huge counterfit problem its facing, stealing is stealing - call it what you want. I am not sure what business you are in but if you had someone knocking off your patented / copywrited products and services - you wouldn't be happy. I don't disgagree as to the 'immediate' commercial harm in having some tourist buy a fake rolex will have on the company - it doesn't make it right does it? The other day - I went to the licenced Man Utd store in Lad Prao and paid over the top price for a pair of shorts. I could have gotten something very similar on the street for 1/8th the cost I am sure. I chose not too. Why, it wasn't the difference in price - it's the fact that I wanted authentic garment that was hopefully produced in some properly run factory with ethical practices. I have my reasons - I am sure those who buy copies have their reasons. Are we at this stage in the world the of commerce where R&D and brand building are worth nothing though? anyways, the actions I would guess are window dressing yet again. Bad money pushing out the good... Let's look at it this way: You buy exclusive goods so that you can: 1. show you can afford it 2. Have goods that others can't afford and thus become more exclusive If counterfeiting allows people to appear to have a real item, this ultimately reduces the "value" of the original item. If you see aperson with a Rolex now, do you think it's real or that it's a fake ? Personally, I assume it's a fake and this means fewer people will want to buy a real Rolex because they'll have people assume it's a fake and then defend the fact that's it's real. So, the fake watch is driving out the authentic watch. People now look for other, more exclusive watches that haven't yet been pirated to the extreme. Another case I can think of is Burberry. It was originally thought to be the domain of the rich and famous until football hooligans started to wear Burberry baseball caps and scarfs. I bet the Burberry executives didn't rub their hands in glee at the "increase in sales", I bet they sat in shock horror as their market dynamics shifted and they lost the kind of customers they were after; i.e the ones that could afford Burberry outfits and not just baseball caps and scarfs. No self respecting hi-so would wear something a football hooligan is also wearing. Bad money drives out good. #34
Senior Member Posted 2009-05-07 20:55:21
Dont know if it is related . I just come back from running in Lumpini Park an hour ago the corner of Rama 4 / Silom Road junction is blocked to traffic by the army with riot gear there are literally hundreds of army and police down there , MRT access also blocked on the Silom Road side .
In Lumpini Park itself there are army and police trucks and buses and many army are setting up tents for the night in the park . #35
Platinum Member Posted 2009-05-07 21:05:03
Yes sir, some real angry peoples. we saw it on TV 9. Things got a bit NASTY at time.
#36
Senior Member Posted 2009-05-07 21:13:47
Here's my take ..... If a tourist buys a copy watch , handbag whatever how the hel_l can that affect or infringe on revenue from the original supplier or company. The tourist is not going to pay hundreds of dollars for an original rolex , gucci or any other brand. So what is the big deal. Also , the vendor makes his money, he employs thais, the copy factory employs thais who take money home to put food on the table. I for one am happy to buy a fake as I will never be able to buy the real thing and even if I had enough money I woundn't waste it on name brands anyway. If a poor person wants to buy a copy or fake then who is it hurting ??? I hope the Gucci's , Valentinos ect.. go bust.... good on the fakes Tell me if i'm wrong ! Cheers.. steve, while I tend to hold the opinion that extortionist fee practices of certain software companies has lead to the huge counterfit problem its facing, stealing is stealing - call it what you want. I am not sure what business you are in but if you had someone knocking off your patented / copywrited products and services - you wouldn't be happy. I don't disgagree as to the 'immediate' commercial harm in having some tourist buy a fake rolex will have on the company - it doesn't make it right does it? The other day - I went to the licenced Man Utd store in Lad Prao and paid over the top price for a pair of shorts. I could have gotten something very similar on the street for 1/8th the cost I am sure. I chose not too. Why, it wasn't the difference in price - it's the fact that I wanted authentic garment that was hopefully produced in some properly run factory with ethical practices. I have my reasons - I am sure those who buy copies have their reasons. Are we at this stage in the world the of commerce where R&D and brand building are worth nothing though? anyways, the actions I would guess are window dressing yet again. Bad money pushing out the good... Let's look at it this way: You buy exclusive goods so that you can: 1. show you can afford it 2. Have goods that others can't afford and thus become more exclusive If counterfeiting allows people to appear to have a real item, this ultimately reduces the "value" of the original item. If you see aperson with a Rolex now, do you think it's real or that it's a fake ? Personally, I assume it's a fake and this means fewer people will want to buy a real Rolex because they'll have people assume it's a fake and then defend the fact that's it's real. So, the fake watch is driving out the authentic watch. People now look for other, more exclusive watches that haven't yet been pirated to the extreme. Another case I can think of is Burberry. It was originally thought to be the domain of the rich and famous until football hooligans started to wear Burberry baseball caps and scarfs. I bet the Burberry executives didn't rub their hands in glee at the "increase in sales", I bet they sat in shock horror as their market dynamics shifted and they lost the kind of customers they were after; i.e the ones that could afford Burberry outfits and not just baseball caps and scarfs. No self respecting hi-so would wear something a football hooligan is also wearing. Bad money drives out good. As I mentioned earlier , I completely disagree ... so you would sooner see the thai vendor go out of business but the yank is fine .... he got his medal ..ha..stopped those dam_n pirated goods... and i don't care about everyone else... well ... sorry ..but thats BS...and good luck to the vendors.... cheers #37
Advanced Member Posted 2009-05-07 21:52:33
I hope the Gucci's , Valentinos ect.. go bust.... good on the fakes Tell me if i'm wrong ! Cheers.. Cheers #38
Member Posted 2009-05-07 21:58:06
I just got back from Patpong a few minutes ago and it's like a ghost town there (9:30pm). Very few tourists and all the vendors just sitting around in the dark with all their goods still packed up. I was talking to one vendor and a TV camera showed up out of nowhere. Was walking by one of the go-go's and two girls literally grabbed my arms and tried to pull me inside. Never had that happen before. Looks like times might be a changin'.
A number of police and army personnel around Patpong and Silom Road. As someone else mentioned, MRT access was blocked off earlier tonight probably due to VIP's at the Dusit Thani. Edited by btvbill, 2009-05-07 21:58:41. #39
Super Member Posted 2009-05-07 22:26:50
As I mentioned earlier , I completely disagree ... so you would sooner see the thai vendor go out of business but the yank is fine .... he got his medal ..ha..stopped those dam_n pirated goods... and i don't care about everyone else... well ... sorry ..but thats BS...and good luck to the vendors.... cheers I would like to see the yank fine and also the Thai vendor to be just fine selling thai produced goods instead of illegal copies made in china. That would actually leave some money in country rather than all going to the mob guys running the show. It's actually quite entertaining to read here all these excuses people make just to justify themselfs that it is ok for them to steal. "I'm for the poor thai vendor, screw the corporations, they have too much money anyways" and all that c...p
#40
Super Member Posted 2009-05-07 22:51:29
Nice try. but total cr#p. Buying the "real" product does not gaurentee it was produced by "ethical" or "eviromentally sound" production practices. In fact the large corporations that produce these name brands, are just as likely to make them in a sweatshop with employees paid a fraction of the wage they should be paid. I would argue the larger the corporation, the more interested they are in profit only, and therefore the more likely they are to manufacture their goods in the lowest cost sweat shop in a third world country. As for your example of Man United shorts, simply because you paid the top line price, does not mean you got a quality product produced in a ethical factory. Does Man Utd manufacture shorts. No, they don't. The merchandise is provided by suppliers who bid on the contract at the lowest price they can afford. That kind of thing almost gaurentees that the merchandiser, Man Utd in this case, simply buys cheap and sells high. Unless Man Utd is very unusual, they don't even ask the mechandise supplier anything but, "How much is the cost per unit?" Why should you pay $29.95 for a DVd that actually cost the manufacturer less that $1.00 to make. Yes, I know about the "production costs" of making the film DVD...and I know a lot too about how to double or triple the apparent costs of production so that the costs can be used to reduce the actual taxes paid by the production company. Creative accounting. Anyway I'm getting off the topic. Just let me say that consumer goods especially DVDs, CDs, and other counterfit products are what I will buy if I can. Buying the "official" products is just another capitalist scam that the consumers have to pay for. I do not care to pay some corporation 3 times what I should for the same product because the market is regulated for the benefit of the producers, and at the expense of the consumers. The people who are trying to stop the sale of pirated and bootleg DVDs are supported directly by the official producers of the films (i.e. motion picture industry). The salaries of the watchdogs cracking down on DVD piracy are paid for directly (at least in the U.S) by the film makers. I'm glad that there are people in Thailand who copy and sell pirated goods. It takes the sales away from the capitalist scum that overcharge the consumers. Just my opinion. Excuse the rant. You forgot one fact which is that the capitalist scum corporations actually produced the material thus they "own" it. Now as owners they have the right to set the price as they see fit. Just like you as a potential customer have the right to choose not to buy if you do not agree with the price. So your opinion for the correct price has nothing to do with buying pirated copies. Why not just admid to yourself that you buy pirated copies as you can get them cheaper. Not that you can not afford the original one but you choose to buy pirated as it's cheaper and you do not mind the contents have been stolen from the owners and resold to you. Just out of curiosity, would you buy a car that you 100% know is stolen and feel good about it and boast it here on the forum as right thing to do? Does you logic and opinion apply to that. Car manufacturers are big and you could call them capitalist scum with the bonuses they still pay their management etc... #41
Platinum Member Posted 2009-05-07 23:04:06
I assume things have changed now but going back to the late 80’s I know of one western clothing factory on the outskirts of Bangkok that had production lines running to cater for both the legit and copy clothing market. The reason I know was that half the ex’s family worked in that factory.
One production line produced the genuine article with embroidered emblems and packaging for the overseas market. The other production line stopped short of the emblems and the clothing was shipped to another factory where little crocodiles etc were glued on. #42
Senior Member Posted 2009-05-07 23:32:54
Looks like there was a bit of a fracas with the Patpong street traders and the police last night. Only info I can find online about it on the ASTV site here (translated). Background I heard is that they're upset with a recent clampdown on selling counterfeit items - 2 days notice. BKK Post and The Nation have absolutely zilch on it so far. zilch ??? what is that ? It means zero, nothing. #43
Advanced Member Posted 2009-05-07 23:56:42
i never buy pirated dvds, cause the quality is so different each time. usually close to not watchable. i buy a lot of original dvds in the shopping malls. most dvd shops have 80-120 baht original of a bit older movies. yet some very rare and good flicks. i think thats the best deal. for new movies i still like to go to the cinema. and occasionally a movie from the 'bay.
the copied clothing is usually quite ugly last seasons diesel or billabong crap. quality is not made for wearing it often. i think you get the better deal from local designer and brands. So i don't care too much about pirated goods. But i have to say, people deserve some kind of protection if a government never enforced a law. if you obviously tolerate something you set a sign as well. when my thai gf stayed with me in europe, a similar situation came up regarding her visa status. our lawyer was quite successful when he quoted a law that would roughly translate with "protection of trust", but ianal. #44
Senior Member Posted 2009-05-08 00:10:11
I remember a girl that worked for Nike, told me they worked 3 weeks a month for Nike and 1 week for supplying the market stalls....same machines, same materials and same staff.....so what is actually counterfeit. Most of the big names use sweatshops in Asia so ethically is it worth paying the over inflated price in their official outlets......the best phrase I ever heard was from someone that bought a Louis Vutton bag....real cost would be about $5,000, they said " We bought it from a real shop its not a copy"...they paid 2,500 baht instead of 500 from a market...just because the shop has aircon and windows...
#45
Puyai Baan Posted 2009-05-08 08:27:13
Update:
Patpong skirmish injures 17, vendors file police complaint BANGKOK: -- Vendors at the Patpong Night Market yesterday lodged a police complaint accusing anti-piracy officials of abusing their power and using excessive force during a raid on Wednesday night. One vendor is in critical condition after being hit on the head by a group of men armed with sticks who raided the market together with officials from the Commerce Ministry. The raid later turned into a full-blown melee. At around 11pm on Wednesday, a team of more than 100 people raided the market and indiscriminately started seizing items from stalls, angering the vendors, who responded by throwing stones and objects at the officials. Later, some 200 vendors blocked adjacent roads and intercepted a ministry van carrying their products. Three other vans managed to get away. The skirmish left 10 officials and seven vendors wounded. The vendors, in their police complaint, charged the anti-piracy team with armed robbery, assault and firearm possession. The officials had earlier filed piracy-related changes against the vendors. In their complaint, the vendors said the officials did not identify themselves before seizing the products and did not separate contraband items from legal ones. Some vendors were even dragged onto a van and beaten up as the vehicle drove around until dawn before they were released. A senior police officer later said the Commerce Ministry officials had not notified the Bang Rak police station, whose jurisdiction covers the market, nor had it informed the Economic and Cyber Crimes Division about the raid - a practice usually followed prior to any anti-piracy operations. Pol Maj-General Wibool Bangthamai said two Army officers from an irrelevant Supreme Command unit were also involved in the raid. Under standard police procedure, items need to be identified, contraband products seized and legal items returned to vendors, Wibool said. The division's main policy focuses on crackdowns on production or storage sources, while small vendors are only arrested after ignoring warnings from police. Thanks to a joint decision between police and ministry officials, a directive has been issued requiring police officers to regularly conduct anti-piracy operations across Bangkok and report to the Metropolitan Police Bureau every seven days after May 15.  -- The Nation 2009-05-08 #46
Titanium Member Posted 2009-05-08 10:20:40
Can't really say I have much sympathy for the traders myself to be honest. The only good argument I can see for buying counterfeit goods is how genuine clothes are made using cheap labour is sweatshops, but even this isn't really always the case.
Arguments against buying counterfeit goods, specifically from Patpong are: It weakens Thailand's position for foreign investment. Why produce anything here if you risk being ripped off? The cost of the counterfeit items are usually ridiculously overpriced anyhow. The majority of cash goes towards support underground operations. Do these guys really look like salt-of-the-earth, Thailand's poor to you? As mentioned, the counterfeit goods lessen the value of the genuine ones The quality of the items are usually tat anyhow (specifically with the watches) However I also agree to an extent that manufacturers encourage counterfeit goods by making the originals cost prohibitive in the first place. An interesting case is the way DVD's have evolved in Thailand. Years ago you couldn't pick up a DVD for less than 1,000 baht, while back in the UK they were selling for anywhere between 5-15 GBP. The cost ultimately promoted the purchase of pirated versions of the same, running at about 150 baht per disk. Now you can pick up a genuine copy of a DVD for around 199-399 baht. For 50 baht more, why run the risk of purchasing a dodgy copy? (which most of them are before the genuine ones hit the shelves). Ultimately I support any clampdown that helps Thailand move into the 20th century. Off mi' box... /edit - p.s. If the word "zilch" as thrown you off kilter, please share your thoughts on the word "Zogzag" on the front page of the BKK Post (website)
Edited by Insight, 2009-05-08 10:25:36. #47
Superb Member Posted 2009-05-08 10:30:17
I get many original DVD's for around 90 baht. Many I see in the piratet shops I can buy cheaper at a genuine shop. While they may not have the latest so cheap, there is a fine collection for very cheap.
#48
Senior Member Posted 2009-05-08 11:24:25
From what I heard on the news last night there was a misunderstanding.
There is a difference between pirated cds,dvds and for fake rolexs and vuitton bags. Fake dvds and cds are pirated goods, while rolexs and guccis are considered to be copied goods. The difference is brand name (rolex, louis, etc.). Pirated dvds and cds don't have brand names they are just intellectual copies not sold under any brand name. The pirated and copied goods are only to be enforced by different police divisions. Only the local police stations can arrest and seize pirated dvds and cds while another special division can seize copied counterfeit goods anywhere in Thailand. Of course the local police stations are paid off. What the vendors are pissed off about is that they had no prior warning of the special division about raids. Usually they have like 2 days knowledge from the local police station. But last night the special division just came with black trash bags and seized all counterfeit goods with no prior warning. Of course both are illegal but that's how Thai law is. I have no sympathy for the vendors. In fact I have no sympathy for anyone doing anything illegal. The vendors are mad because they were not warned and their counterfeit stuff was seized. But look, if you know it is illegal then you take the risks. In other countries these guys could face jail time. #49
Senior Member Posted 2009-05-08 11:41:47
Looks like there was a bit of a fracas with the Patpong street traders and the police last night. Only info I can find online about it on the ASTV site here (translated). Background I heard is that they're upset with a recent clampdown on selling counterfeit items - 2 days notice. BKK Post and The Nation have absolutely zilch on it so far. zilch ??? what is that ? It means zero, nothing, f... all, ie there are no news reports on the subject. #50
Senior Member Posted 2009-05-08 11:48:29
[/quote]
Bad money pushing out the good... Let's look at it this way: You buy exclusive goods so that you can: 1. show you can afford it 2. Have goods that others can't afford and thus become more exclusive If counterfeiting allows people to appear to have a real item, this ultimately reduces the "value" of the original item. If you see aperson with a Rolex now, do you think it's real or that it's a fake ? Personally, I assume it's a fake and this means fewer people will want to buy a real Rolex because they'll have people assume it's a fake and then defend the fact that's it's real. So, the fake watch is driving out the authentic watch. People now look for other, more exclusive watches that haven't yet been pirated to the extreme. Another case I can think of is Burberry. It was originally thought to be the domain of the rich and famous until football hooligans started to wear Burberry baseball caps and scarfs. I bet the Burberry executives didn't rub their hands in glee at the "increase in sales", I bet they sat in shock horror as their market dynamics shifted and they lost the kind of customers they were after; i.e the ones that could afford Burberry outfits and not just baseball caps and scarfs. No self respecting hi-so would wear something a football hooligan is also wearing. Bad money drives out good. [/quote] Good post tango, I never thought of it like that b4. Thanks |
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