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[CFIT]

Land purchase through Thai spouse forbidden: Land Dept

PHUKET CITY: The director general of the Land Department has reiterated that foreigners using Thai nominees to buy land anywhere in the country will have their land title deeds revoked if caught – even if the nominee in question is a lawfully wedded spouse.

Land Department Director Anuwat Meteewiboonwut made the comments during a recent stop in Phuket as part of a nationwide inspection tour of 30 provinces.

The tour is aimed at improving public services by land officials in three areas: dress, conduct when dealing with the public and working harder to eliminate a backlog of work.

Many members of the public have complained that it takes up to a year to complete a transaction that should only take one day, he said.

Mr Anuwat, a former governor of both Phang Nga and Samut Prakan provinces, said he was satisfied on the first two points, but rated the general level of success among land officials nationwide at speeding up their work rate at “only 30%”.

The next round of inspection tours will come in July, after which time personnel changes will be considered if service does not improve, he said.

“We have to keep pressure on them, otherwise the work will not get done,” he said.

As for foreigners seeking to buy homes in Phuket, they can do so through the Condominium Act, which allows foreign ownership of up to 49% of any project, he said.

Foreigners cannot use a Thai spouse as a nominee to buy property in Thailand, however.

“If the Thai spouse has enough money to buy the house that is fine, but if the Thai has no money and uses money given to him or her by a foreigner to acquire property, that is against the law. If we check and find out later that a Thai person has been using money from a foreigner to buy land anywhere in Thailand, we will revoke title deeds,” he said.

Mr Anuwat said the provisions of [Ministry of Interior] ministerial order 43 makes it difficult to issue land documents quickly, as it requires action from a number of different agencies. Desire for land on the island has also led to encroachment problems here, he said.

As a key market for property companies, Phuket is a constant source of problems and complaints to the director general’s office, he admitted.

“We will try to resolve these problems and develop our personnel continuously in order to provide high quality services. Fortunately the governor of Phuket used to work in the Land Department, so he understands the procedures and can help co-ordinate all the agencies involved,” he said.

Mr Anuwat was speaking of Phuket Governor Wichai Phraisa-ngop, who served as Land Office director in Nakhon Pathom in 1997 and as deputy director of the Land Department nationwide in 2003.


-- Phuket Gazette 2009-05-27

[CFIT]

A fine example of Thailand ignoring its own laws until it has enough flies in the web, then sudden enforcement .

It's time to say ....Sayanaro to foreign investment

[churchill]

So is it illegal for a husband to loan his wife money ?

"If the Thai spouse has enough money to buy the house that is fine, but if the Thai has no money and uses money given to him or her by a foreigner to acquire property, that is against the law. If we check and find out later that a Thai person has been using money from a foreigner to buy land anywhere in Thailand, we will revoke title deeds,” he said."

[churchill]

Do they want to encourage investment or not - If not lets all bugger off back home !

[wolfmanjack]

Since most of the thai women that purchased land using the foreign husbands money have the land registered using a non thai surname it would not be hard for them to come up with thousands of land deeds to check on. It also would not be too hard for them to prove that the thai lady did not have funds that were not derived from the husbands activities, in most cases. However this would create a huge uproar about the thai womans rights to use joint income to buy land. After all according to thai law the income of both spouses is common property after marriage even if the income generating assets were owned by the husband prior to marriage. So if the couple had been married for several years then she could say that 50% of all the income while they were married is her own , right ??

[meom]

churchill, on 2009-05-27 18:47:57, said:

So is it illegal for a husband to loan his wife money ?

"If the Thai spouse has enough money to buy the house that is fine, but if the Thai has no money and uses money given to him or her by a foreigner to acquire property, that is against the law. If we check and find out later that a Thai person has been using money from a foreigner to buy land anywhere in Thailand, we will revoke title deeds,” he said."

Interesting question specially if you take into account marriage law (as far as that exists in Thailand). Wouldn't it be correct to say that without prenuptial the wife is anyway entitled to 50% of husband money and vice versa so if you loan her 100 baht you'r actually loaning her 50 baht since 50 baht are hers to start with

[BakMah]

Next time over there, withdraw every baht from her accounts, burn the bankbooks and open a new account at a different bank.
Anybody who already "owns" land through the spouse has a better idea how to beat the system? How else can they proof that the money used to purchase the land came from you and wasn't legitimately earned by your Tirak?

[steelepulse]

I can't see how this would be enforceable.  Who's to say that the money wired into the wife's account isn't hers from an overseas partnership business with her foreign spouse? And what was the deal that is signed at the land office saying that the money used to buy the land was in fact from the Thai spouse, not the foreign person? 



I find the below quite hilarious: 



"The tour is aimed at improving public services by land officials in three areas: dress, conduct when dealing with the public and working harder to eliminate a backlog of work.

Many members of the public have complained that it takes up to a year to complete a transaction that should only take one day, he said.
" 



Improving in dress? WTF?  Conduct? Are they now not going to want some tea money to expedite things, nor a big envelope to say that such and such land is not encroaching on gov't land.  Can't see this happening.  Backlog taking a year?  Why is that?  All  property transactions that I am familiar with took a day at the office and that was it.  

[churchill]

To be honest I wouldn't take this statement too seriously - He is probably correctly stating the law - but whether it is enforced is another thing and there seem to be ways of getting around laws if one seeks good advice - and the courts in Thailand are not know for quick resolutions of any case - So i think continue as before .

[SMEEERE]

It will matter not as loan when translated into thai is gift, so, the wife is the rightful owner, no problem, next !

[churchill]

SMEEERE, on 2009-05-27 19:49:51, said:

It will matter not as loan when translated into thai is gift, so, the wife is the rightful owner, no problem, next !

Not true

[SMEEERE]

churchill, on 2009-05-27 19:54:07, said:

SMEEERE, on 2009-05-27 19:49:51, said:

It will matter not as loan when translated into thai is gift, so, the wife is the rightful owner, no problem, next !

Not true

Winnie, my post was in jest ,but, with a twist of truth,

[steelepulse]

Another thing I wonder is what if you transfer title deed to one of your kids?  Are they going to take that too?  This whole scenario is a big can of worms that will only bring more bad press and investment pullouts of Thailand if they actually did try and enforce this and take property away from one of it's citizens.

[cognos]

SMEEERE, on 2009-05-27 20:49:51, said:

It will matter not as loan when translated into thai is gift, so, the wife is the rightful owner, no problem, next !

After we were married my father in law gave 1.75 acres in Phuket to my wife and I..of course I don't consider it my property at all,but its a great piece of land on a hill with lots of ocean breeze.

[chiangmaibruce]

steelepulse, on 2009-05-27 20:03:39, said:

Another thing I wonder is what if you transfer title deed to one of your kids?

yes you can, and there are a few thaivisa threads on this issue.
there are a number of issues that you need to make yourself aware of before going down this path - pros and cons that means it won't suit everyone

[MeetJohnDoe]

I think he's talking out of his arse. Typical non-sensicle statement that you can always count on a high-level Thai civil servant to make on most occasions. I agree, it should do wonders to help slag-off all the million dollar "villas" for sale to silly foreigners who were thinking about buying in Phuket.

Edited by MeetJohnDoe, 2009-05-28 01:23:57.

[WhyThai]

You'll note the use of the term "nominee" in this article. A nominee is not the real owner, just a temporary holder. This is not the case with most wives.

Loaning or giving your wife money to purchase property is COMPLETELY LEGAL in Thailand according to every major law firm here. Worry not I think.

Edited by WhyThai, 2009-05-28 01:31:54.

[JetsetBkk]

MeetJohnDoe, on 2009-05-28 01:22:30, said:

I think he's talking out of his arse...

The word I used was "backside" in my thread here. But hey, we're on the same page.

[TEFLMike]

Bye bye all the Farang owned bars in Pattaya and BKK etc etc etc ?

[old wanderer]

I just went through this with my Thai wife. She has my last name....

It was required for me to sign a document for each Chanote that the money used was her money independant of my money. (We had 4 pieces of property).

If she has never changed her name, and but is in fact married, the transfer is illegal by the rules. If she is married and says she is married, but still uses her Thai last name, the assumption is she is married to a Thai, and may not be asked for this document from her husband.

I know many Thai, that do not declare there married status. However, they can find problems if they have relitives that care to stir things up.

The one advantage to declaring a marrriage to a farang, if something should happen title will pass to the farang, but he must sell within 6 months.

If she says she is single, dies, then titile passes to all the Thai relitives, not to the unknown spouce.

[Brigante7]

old wanderer, on 2009-05-27 23:38:24, said:

I just went through this with my Thai wife. She has my last name....

It was required for me to sign a document for each Chanote that the money used was her money independant of my money. (We had 4 pieces of property).

If she has never changed her name, and but is in fact married, the transfer is illegal by the rules. If she is married and says she is married, but still uses her Thai last name, the assumption is she is married to a Thai, and may not be asked for this document from her husband.

I know many Thai, that do not declare there married status. However, they can find problems if they have relitives that care to stir things up.

The one advantage to declaring a marrriage to a farang, if something should happen title will pass to the farang, but he must sell within 6 months.

If she says she is single, dies, then titile passes to all the Thai relitives, not to the unknown spouce.

I thought it was 12 months to sell the land if it was passed on in death?

Brigante7.

[Odysseus221]

This is no change from their policy stipulating Thai ownership. Best is Thai company but failing that 30 year lease or go condo!

[bdenner]

Not even worthy of comment. WILL NEVER HAPPEN

[Odysseus221]

This simply means that in the event of divorse or separation, the land belongs to wife. End of story.

[Jungian]

This is way overboard. So, supposing my wife is a house wife (which she currently is as we have a little one), I receive my salary from the Thai government, does this mean she is not entitled to buy a house with our family income?

What I really want is the same rights as a foreign woman that marries a Thai man!