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[Jungian]

femi fan, on 2009-06-30 18:09:36, said:

Jungian, on 2009-06-29 09:13:17, said:

It is a myth that "stuff" is inside your body for a long time as is the myth about swallowing chewing gum. Your body naturally pushes out waste, if you want to flush yourself out eat a high Fiber Diet with lots of roughage such as green salads, veggies and fruits. Eat whole grain bread and unpolished rice, cook foods with spices like ginger, black pepper, cumin, coriander, turmeric, cayenne pepper, fennel, as they aid digestion. Drink fresh juices also. If there is anything your body does not pass it will have to be removed surgically!

Seriously stay far, far away from this kind of thing.

Thanks for the reply. I did in fact read up loads beyond the CI stuff and in fact am following a diet pretty similar to the one you talk about here. I intuitively have decided to not have a CI, at least for the time being. I'd be interested to hear about any foods you recommend NOT to eat, or eat much of.

Another thing i've been tempted to do, but yet to try out is fasting perhaps one day a week or one day a month. Perhaps just fruit juices or fruits on that day. Do you have any opinion on this?

One final question, i interpret your recommendation as being quite a strong one, to not indulge in CI. Could you elaborate?

As far as things not to eat I guess the obvious fast food and fried foods, anything processed, lard, high-fructose corn syrup in large quantities, etc. Fasting is also not a great idea however you could limit your intake strictly to fruit and vegetables, natural juices and water which is actually more beneficial than fasting. The idea of "detoxing" is a misconception, we are constantly detoxing that is the purpose of the kidneys and liver, obviously the more junk you put in the more junk you get out but if you just eat a well balanced diet you will be functioning at 100%, I get a kick out of people that "detox" and smoke, quit smoking for a week and see what comes out (I did).

I did my medical residency as a level 1 trauma doctor and I have seen the result first hand of things being put where they do not belong, I suppose this is why I am so opinionated about this subject, I have never met a physician that would recommend this procedure nor have I ever met one who would preform it. Colonics are illegal in many states in the USA, if you read the following link you may get a better understanding where I am coming from, I truly care about people and hate to see anyone hurt that is why I even bothered posting.

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelate...ics/gastro.html

[Ulysses G.]

heybruce, on 2009-07-02 23:37:00, said:

BTW, did you consider the possibility that that gluey gunk belongs in the intestine and you shouldn't wash it out? Or that the CI salesman giving this pitch assumes you'll never get anyone to look up there and see if the gunk removal worked? Or that the "lighter and better" feeling CI proponents claim can be accomplished with a good bowel movement?

This still strikes me as an uncomfortably intrusive, risky, and unnecessary waste of money.

If you read what I have said, I am not recommending colonics, although I am also not sure that they don't work either. Like acupuncture, there are a lot of good, reputable holistic health people who swear by them.
I do think that the chance of them hurting anyone who is careful about hygiene is very minimal and I wonder why the medical establishment has to use such strong scare tactics to discourage trying them.
It is slightly possible that one could cause some damage, but from everything that I have read and seen, it about as common as being struck by lightning and even getting a haircut could conceivably hurt you.
Purified water is just not that big a threat to the human body unless you breathe it directly into your lungs.

Edited by Ulysses G., 2009-07-03 06:54:22.

[amexpat]

Up yours, U.G.

Maybe that's it. The medical establishment is using these totally hysterical scare tactics so the "good, reputable holistic health people" won't take patients away.

It's a desperate move on behalf of those doctors whose waiting list is less than five weeks.

Jungian, some friends of mine did residency in the ER. They said the most common story was

"I came out of the shower and I didn't notice that my roommate left this thing in the chair...."

[Ulysses G.]

A lot of people think acupuncture, yoga, meditation and chiropractors are complete nonsense too, but even some medical doctors have eventually accepted that they can help for some reason that they do not understand.
We can never forget that Darwin was laughed at when he first presented his theories.

Edited by Ulysses G., 2009-07-03 09:28:22.

[Jungian]

Ulysses G., on 2009-07-03 09:27:32, said:

A lot of people think acupuncture, yoga, meditation and chiropractors are complete nonsense too, but even some medical doctors have eventually accepted that they can help for some reason that they do not understand.
We can never forget that Darwin was laughed at when he first presented his theories.

Rather the opposite is true about acupuncture, we do know that it works, we do NOT know why. Many tests and scientific blind studies have been done involving acupuncture and the effects can be measured, I personally observed a test being conducted with the goal to lower blood pressure and sure enough it did, why? Not a clue, but it also worked on me and I was not only skeptical but I down right didn't believe it.

Yoga and meditation have also been tested and have valuable effects physically and psychologically. Chiropractors on the other hand... well it does feel good to get 'cracked' and I have personally gone to chiropractors but the truth is it was more placebo than anything else but my insurance company did give me an allowance of $5,000 a year for chiropractic care but I'm not sure anyone has a factual answer for that one, yet.

As far as the subject at hand there have been tons of studies done thus it is outlawed in many places because it can be harmful but never helpful. Someone mentioned "feeling lighter" after a procedure sure just take a bunch of laxatives it has the same effect, in the USA we have a drink we give patients before a colonoscopy called 'Golytely' this medication will flush you out like you have never been flushed out, many patients comment that they feel like they lost weight, the truth is it is all water weight less than 2% of the material being flushed is solid matter but as I mentioned for the majortiy of us it does come out naturally.

[Ulysses G.]

To be honest, I tend to agree with your thinking, but there are intelligent people like Ann Wigmore, Norman Walker and the Gerson Institute that I believe are sincere about wanting to help people's health and they use this therapy and they believe in it.
That does not mean that they are right, but it keeps me from ruling it out completely.

[elektrified]

Jungian, on 2009-07-03 10:17:41, said:

Ulysses G., on 2009-07-03 09:27:32, said:

A lot of people think acupuncture, yoga, meditation and chiropractors are complete nonsense too, but even some medical doctors have eventually accepted that they can help for some reason that they do not understand.
We can never forget that Darwin was laughed at when he first presented his theories.

Rather the opposite is true about acupuncture, we do know that it works, we do NOT know why. Many tests and scientific blind studies have been done involving acupuncture and the effects can be measured, I personally observed a test being conducted with the goal to lower blood pressure and sure enough it did, why? Not a clue, but it also worked on me and I was not only skeptical but I down right didn't believe it.

Yoga and meditation have also been tested and have valuable effects physically and psychologically. Chiropractors on the other hand... well it does feel good to get 'cracked' and I have personally gone to chiropractors but the truth is it was more placebo than anything else but my insurance company did give me an allowance of $5,000 a year for chiropractic care but I'm not sure anyone has a factual answer for that one, yet.

As far as the subject at hand there have been tons of studies done thus it is outlawed in many places because it can be harmful but never helpful. Someone mentioned "feeling lighter" after a procedure sure just take a bunch of laxatives it has the same effect, in the USA we have a drink we give patients before a colonoscopy called 'Golytely' this medication will flush you out like you have never been flushed out, many patients comment that they feel like they lost weight, the truth is it is all water weight less than 2% of the material being flushed is solid matter but as I mentioned for the majortiy of us it does come out naturally.

I've had about 5 colonoscopies in my life, since at one point I had ulcerative colitis. Each time I was instructed to consume only apple juice and clear broth for 48 hours before the procedure. On the night before the procedure I drank a bottle of this very salty stuff. I can't remember the name but it was not Golytely as posted above. Let me tell you that it completely flushes you out! Only one time I was able to keep from falling asleep from the effects of the IV drugs they give you, and I watched on the video monitor next to me as the camera traveled through my colon. There was not a single speck of anything in there.

[slapout]

Ulysses G., on 2009-06-29 09:34:09, said:

Jungian, on 2009-06-29 09:13:17, said:

It is a myth that "stuff" is inside your body for a long time

I don't want to be too adamant about recommending this to anyone, but I think the chances of hurting yourself are almost none if you are a little careful.
A lot of people warn you about negative possibilities, but the only problems that I could find were with people who used dirty water tubes, but most places use new, sterilized hospital equipment.
As to removing stuff from your body, you can see what comes out by looking at a glass tube. I had thousands and thousands of seeds come out over the course of an hour.
When I was a child, I was only allowed to snack on fruits and I would often swallow the seeds whole. I cannot see where all of those seeds came from, other than the folds of my colon.

I am jumping in this circle jerk discussion, as not having experienced an enema since childhood (60Year old beliefs and practices) I tend to lean toward someone who as a MD probably can shed a much brighter light on the pro and con of this procedure. OK maybe enema is the wrong word, but my expertise is, oil field problems and their solution. I spent 6 weeks in ICU in US and upon regaining my senses (debatable) I was concerned as no bowel movement for 7+ days. I mentioned this and doctors/nurses both suggested what they called GI, a liquid taken orally as this was the best/safest way to handle my concern. Listen to the people who at least have a education/knowledgeable background in the subject If you have personal experience, reference same and not the local gossip. "A lot, most . many, 1000's +, 1,000,000's, etc, are not terms that are used by learned people to solve problems, unless medical profession has changed since I had my last check-up.

[Jungian]

slapout, on 2009-07-03 12:53:25, said:

Ulysses G., on 2009-06-29 09:34:09, said:

Jungian, on 2009-06-29 09:13:17, said:

It is a myth that "stuff" is inside your body for a long time

I don't want to be too adamant about recommending this to anyone, but I think the chances of hurting yourself are almost none if you are a little careful.
A lot of people warn you about negative possibilities, but the only problems that I could find were with people who used dirty water tubes, but most places use new, sterilized hospital equipment.
As to removing stuff from your body, you can see what comes out by looking at a glass tube. I had thousands and thousands of seeds come out over the course of an hour.
When I was a child, I was only allowed to snack on fruits and I would often swallow the seeds whole. I cannot see where all of those seeds came from, other than the folds of my colon.

I am jumping in this circle jerk discussion, as not having experienced an enema since childhood (60Year old beliefs and practices) I tend to lean toward someone who as a MD probably can shed a much brighter light on the pro and con of this procedure. OK maybe enema is the wrong word, but my expertise is, oil field problems and their solution. I spent 6 weeks in ICU in US and upon regaining my senses (debatable) I was concerned as no bowel movement for 7+ days. I mentioned this and doctors/nurses both suggested what they called GI, a liquid taken orally as this was the best/safest way to handle my concern. Listen to the people who at least have a education/knowledgeable background in the subject If you have personal experience, reference same and not the local gossip. "A lot, most . many, 1000's +, 1,000,000's, etc, are not terms that are used by learned people to solve problems, unless medical profession has changed since I had my last check-up.

There are so many different things on the market that serve as laxatives and will give you a complete flush if your doctor recommends it.

Edited by Jungian, 2009-07-03 14:13:05.

[Blinky Bill]

Jungian, on 2009-07-03 15:08:56, said:

There are so many different things on the market that serve as laxatives and will give you a complete flush if your doctor recommends it.

No need to see a doctor, just reading a few posts by certain posters on TV is enough to get the deepest ingrained crap out of the system. Better than any laxative on the market.

[Jungian]

Blinky Bill, on 2009-07-03 21:53:57, said:

Jungian, on 2009-07-03 15:08:56, said:

There are so many different things on the market that serve as laxatives and will give you a complete flush if your doctor recommends it.

No need to see a doctor, just reading a few posts by certain posters on TV is enough to get the deepest ingrained crap out of the system. Better than any laxative on the market.

This is a serious health matter and your snide comments are not necessary when it comes to someones health and well being. Some of us are qualified to answer in this matter.

[Blinky Bill]

Jungian, on 2009-07-04 07:42:55, said:

Blinky Bill, on 2009-07-03 21:53:57, said:

Jungian, on 2009-07-03 15:08:56, said:

There are so many different things on the market that serve as laxatives and will give you a complete flush if your doctor recommends it.

No need to see a doctor, just reading a few posts by certain posters on TV is enough to get the deepest ingrained crap out of the system. Better than any laxative on the market.

This is a serious health matter and your snide comments are not necessary when it comes to someones health and well being. Some of us are qualified to answer in this matter.

And some (many) aren't.

[Blinky Bill]

Jungian, on 2009-07-04 07:42:55, said:

Blinky Bill, on 2009-07-03 21:53:57, said:

Jungian, on 2009-07-03 15:08:56, said:

There are so many different things on the market that serve as laxatives and will give you a complete flush if your doctor recommends it.

No need to see a doctor, just reading a few posts by certain posters on TV is enough to get the deepest ingrained crap out of the system. Better than any laxative on the market.

This is a serious health matter and your snide comments are not necessary when it comes to someones health and well being. Some of us are qualified to answer in this matter.

And another point good Doctor Jungian, my snide comment never mentioned posters on this particular thread being referred to as an alternative to oral laxatives. What I did infer was that many posters on TV in general are enough to create the same result as a good strong laxative.

And yet another personal opinion is that if I had any medical issues, the last thing I would do is seek advice on any forum. There are many posters on any forum who claim to be not what they are. Present company excepted of course.

[Crow Boy]

I am sure that this thread will not degenerate into a factional fight between opponents and proponents of various styles of medical treatment.

I am also watching carefully that people do not start throwing personal remarks at each other.

Have fun, learn from each other but show respect for opposing views

(and the person who appends the remark "even when they are wrong" to my above will be rewarded with an extended leave from the forum

CB

[Jungian]

Blinky Bill, on 2009-07-04 10:34:03, said:

Jungian, on 2009-07-04 07:42:55, said:

Blinky Bill, on 2009-07-03 21:53:57, said:

Jungian, on 2009-07-03 15:08:56, said:

There are so many different things on the market that serve as laxatives and will give you a complete flush if your doctor recommends it.

No need to see a doctor, just reading a few posts by certain posters on TV is enough to get the deepest ingrained crap out of the system. Better than any laxative on the market.

This is a serious health matter and your snide comments are not necessary when it comes to someones health and well being. Some of us are qualified to answer in this matter.

And another point good Doctor Jungian, my snide comment never mentioned posters on this particular thread being referred to as an alternative to oral laxatives. What I did infer was that many posters on TV in general are enough to create the same result as a good strong laxative.

And yet another personal opinion is that if I had any medical issues, the last thing I would do is seek advice on any forum. There are many posters on any forum who claim to be not what they are. Present company excepted of course.

I would be inclined to read your opinion if you were qualified to make one in this matter. I'm sorry if I'm coming on strong but I take peoples health very seriously and the less crap (no pun intended) they have to read to get the facts the better.

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, Tee Vee Friends,

A few comments on this discussion :

1. for Dr. Jungian, with respect; I don't think Khun Blinky's comment was an assault on you, or your sound medical advice, just humour.

2. for Blinky Bill, with respect; an interesting comment on the possible effects, for some, of other posters : which I assume reflects your own personal experience. I have made a pledge to Ur Orang to try and never be a laxative or purgative for others, only a friend who invites other friends to spelunk with me into the caves of Venus, not Uranus. And if things get too tight, and we need to evacuate, so be it.

3. for Crow Boy, with respect, who said : "and the person who appends the remark "even when they are wrong" to my above will be rewarded with an extended leave from the forum" : I ask you to reflect on if speaking in this tone is an example of "moderation."

For everyone, with respect : may you enjoy, today, right now, the beauty of being in your human body, the modicum of health you have, the wonder of taking in a breath, and letting it out. And may your taste buds (even if ninety-percent dead, like mine) still revel in the joys of whatever brings you as much pleasure as soy milk brings me !

I personally do have many problems with the form and practices of modern "allopathic" medicine, but the problems I have are with the "manifestatons," not the light of Reason and Science informing what those "manifestations" are an attempt to embody. Without high-tech MRI scanners, tightly focused radiation beams, and deadly poisons : the most toxic of which, synthesized from a compound first found in the Yew tree, from which my ancestors made their English long-bows, I lovingly refer to as "Satan's Piss" : this body would not be here today playing host to an Orang soul-mind which is quite literally "more fun than a barrel of monkeys."

To your health !

best, ~o:37;

p.s. as a young boy (this would be 1947 - 1952) I do remember sometimes being given enemas, I'm not sure why. I think for my grandparents' generation this was not an uncommon health practice.

If you wish to be truly horrified by what the personal health practices of many educated and more than middle class English men were in the 18-19th. century read a book like the diary of James Boswell, the biographer of Samuel Johnson. Binge-eating and drinking, followed by days of purging, and frequent self-medication with everything from opiates to stimulants, to mercury, was common.

On the other hand common-sense was as "alive" in Boswell's time as now : if you have the energy use this link :

http://books.google.com/books?id=nlUVAAAAY...lt&resnum=8

And read Sam Johnson's letter of advice to Mr. Perkins dated July 28, 1782. Almost sounds like Buddhist philosophy.

Edited by orang37, 2009-07-04 14:33:55.

[sabaijai]

amexpat, on 2009-07-02 09:06:22, said:

Ulysses G., on 2009-07-01 07:29:08, said:

As far as why colons look "clean" when one looks at them with a medical instrument, the people who promote them say that the gluey gunk that coats the walls of the colon has simply taken on the shape of the colon itself ...........

Your caveat is spot on, U.G.

Please consider this. How likely is it that the herbally challenged mainstream medical establishment can't tell gluey gunk from normal colon when they see it, butt OTOH this is how they repair a brain aneurysm:

"A catheter is guided through a small cut in your groin to an artery and then to the small blood vessels in your brain where the aneurysm is. Thin metal wires are put into the aneurysm. They then coil up into a mesh ball. Blood clots that form around this coil prevent the aneurysm from breaking open and bleeding." And this is one of the less complicated things they do.

I'm no fan of our medical system's business practices, but I do believe they generally know what they are doing. Ass for the CI's, if it gives you a thrill, what the heck - you have nothing to lose butt some money unless you have an internal problem or bad luck. I'm not sure that's completely true either.

Cheers

A better reference than photography of the colon would be autopsies. According to Quackwatch, no such 'plaque' has ever been found.

On the other hand, UG's seed story is persuasive, if anecdotal.

I wonder how water is able to flush out the seeds, etc, when the strong peristaltic activity of the bowels cannot?

[Ulysses G.]

I still wonder what all of these people who have colemas and find large amounts of rubbery, impacted matter in the catch bowl in the toilet are seeing. Where does it come from after 2 or 4 weeks of a water or juice fast and a bunch of stuff has come out regularly?
Are all the photos in books trick photography and all the people who report this liars?

Edited by Ulysses G., 2009-07-04 17:57:53.

[daoyai]

Guess I am not the only TVer to wonder bout the the seedy ass of UG.

[daoyai]

Um that didn't come out right but yea what about that? maybe the "muselage" from the fruit?

Edited by daoyai, 2009-07-04 18:00:12.

[amexpat]

daoyai, on 2009-07-04 17:59:28, said:

Um that didn't come out right but yea what about that? maybe the "muselage" from the fruit?

UG is not a fruit. He just wants to believe.

[Ulysses G.]

Actually, I have mentioned several times on here that I am not convinced that colonics are of any real value. However, I also think that it is possible that they might be helpful in some way - Doctors give patients enemas all of the time - and that they do very little harm if done correctly.
It seems to me many people who are up in arms against them have not grown up enough to see anything beyond the poo-poo jokes that they find so funny. It must be nice to be so young at heart!

[daoyai]

Not to poo poo but I AM interested in the seeds, where did they come (?) from AND the rubbery stuff, what is it? And why do people that fast report pooping many days after not eating. My nonscientific theory is the rubbery stuff may be the water soluable fiber in the fruit juice after the body absorbs the nutrients and water from the juice.

[Ulysses G.]

Your theory is not a bad one, but does vegetable juice have the same water soluable fiber? Most people use carrot juice instead of fruit juice which, supposedly, can make the body acidic.
Also, people who do pure water fasts report the same results as far as rubbery stuff, but even more of it comes out.
Any reason that it would be dark brown or black and very tough after going through the digestive track so quickly?

[daoyai]

Somebody somewhere must've anal-ized that shite, so what is it?