Posted 2009-06-01 07:50:02
 wamberal, on 2009-06-01 06:19:31, said:
Livinginexile, on 2009-06-01 06:07:46, said: It's easy to pick the guys who married a bar girl.
They say there is no difference to marrying an ordinary girl 
I wonder what they tell their family and friends when they are asked where they met their wife?
Must be a very awkward moment. 
So "bar girls" are not ordinary people?
We have friends whose church wedding we attended ten years ago. She is an ex-prostitute. They are very happily married.
If you know much about Thailand you would know that when marriages break down (particularly in rural and poor communities) the woman can be left high and dry, often with a child or children to raise, and parents to support. Having been married once she is unlikely to be able to marry again, at least not in her own community. What should she do? Work in a factory for a pittance, or take a chance in the bar scene - possibly with a view to marrying a (gasp) kind and generous farang?
Many years ago there was a bar on the corner of Sukhumwit Soi 19, called the "Country and Western Bar". I frequented the place, on the unofficial advice of the Australian Embassy at the time (I was on an official posting), and I observed a number of match-ups and marriages between the girls and farang residents and tourists. AFAIK, the success rate was as good as any other kinds of marriages.
There is absolutely no reason why somebody who has worked in a bar, even as a prostitute, should not be capable of redemption, and a happy and productive life. Anybody who thinks otherwise has a warped view of human nature.
Yes but...You have to admitt the odds of a successful partnership is very very slim, the girls working in a bar are there for money.
If they get to marry the punter then it's jackpot!
Posted 2009-06-01 08:41:58
Livinginexile, on 2009-05-31 17:07:46, said: It's easy to pick the guys who married a bar girl.
They say there is no difference to marrying an ordinary girl
I wonder what they tell their family and friends when they are asked where they met their wife?
Must be a very awkward moment.
Are you married to a Thai woman, and if so where did you meet her, how old was she when you met her, etc, etc? Please give us all the details.
Posted 2009-06-01 08:57:39
Come on, let's have a poll!
Posted 2009-06-01 09:08:52
My Sammi Noi was a bar boy.Sometimes I tnink I should have never bothered with the non barboy. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sammi-Noi-Ba...ro-t249564.html
Posted 2009-06-01 09:18:47
It's hard to draw any conclusions with no "hard stats", but IMO the logic is that it is simply a lot easier for foreign males to hook up with bar girls than it is to tap into the non BG Thai females.
And given what most men want out of a "relationship", it isn't hard to fathom why a fair few blokes never venture further than the bar scene. ;-)
"Judge not, lest thy be judged" and all that...
Posted 2009-06-01 09:22:47
Forum rules as recently revised:
"18) Not to discuss the specifics of prostitution.
Thailand has a visible sex industry, and acknowledgment of that fact is not forbidden. However ThaiVisa is not the place to seek or give information on this topic, regardless of your sexual habits, preferences or orientation.
19) Not to post other members' personal details, photos or web site details. Doing so will result in an instant ban."
Unfaithful's thread remains open. Let's see if this thread can.
Posted 2009-06-01 09:26:28
I guess that really depends on where you live.
If you live in Pattaya or Phuket, chances are...
If you currently live in Chiang Rai, but came from Pattaya or Phuket, chances are...
If you are a missionary, chances are...
If you are retired and receive a pension, chances are...
Posted 2009-06-01 09:27:28
Wow, still open? Traffic a bit down this month, I suppose.
Posted 2009-06-01 09:29:02
Jim's_a_Thai_Fox, on 2009-06-01 09:18:47, said: It's hard to draw any conclusions with no "hard stats", but IMO the logic is that it is simply a lot easier for foreign males to hook up with bar girls than it is to tap into the non BG Thai females.
And given what most men want out of a "relationship", it isn't hard to fathom why a fair few blokes never venture further than the bar scene. ;-)
"Judge not, lest thy be judged" and all that...
You get out of life what you put into it.
Edited by canuckamuck, 2009-06-01 09:32:02.
Posted 2009-06-01 09:49:51
The whole situation IMO is more of an impediment to long term immigrant success here than the less than friendly immigration and property laws.
Posted 2009-06-01 10:20:03
This has been a discussion of late between a friend and me. She lives in an apartment where there are quite a few BG's working, and she chats with them in the beauty parlor there and has heard all their demeaning stories and little scams. Then a classmate of hers, an accountant like her, lost her job and asked to move in with her for a little while. She got a job as a cashier at some Japanese bar. At first, she was adamant that whe would do only cashiering. But even at that, her tips were good. THen last week, she got her first drink. Yesterday, she left for work early "to meet someone." And now she is talking about dumping her Thai b/f and finding a Japanese one.
Working in a bar is a slippery slope towards a different frame of view on the world. This is natural. If you work in the military, the police, as a doctor, lawyer, heck, if you work in a minimart, all of these will shape you. So it is no different working in a bar. While some people undoubtedly can emerge from this and be a fine partner to anyone, the chances are higher that a person who works in this environment may become a little hardened to relationships, both emotional and physical. On the other hand, someone who has had a very rough go of it in a bar and who really hates that scene may grasp at any life ring thrown his or her way and be very grateful to have a "normal" relationship with a decent partner. I don't know. This is purely conjecture on my part.
A good documentary on the mindset of many bg's can be seen in The Good Women of Bangkok. I highly suggest seeing that if you have a chance.
I would have to guess that the failure rate of foreigner/bg marriages is higher than that of foreigner/non-bg marriages, but I have no data to back that up. However, the only professional women I have really known is now happily married to a Kiwi and living in Australia (yes, he works there, not in New Zealand) and has a lovely daughter.
The bottom line in a relationship is the motives and heart of the people involved. If there is a good match between two people, then it does not really matter where a person worked before. There have been a few very celebrated divorces between hiso women and foreign men, and there have been many happy successes between bg's and foreign men, so it is ridiculous to assume any situation has some pre-ordained outcome due merely to the demographics of it.
Edited by bonobo, 2009-06-01 10:24:52.
Posted 2009-06-01 10:35:23
I am very happily married to an ex-bar girl and have been for 2 years now - we met 8 years ago in Pattaya and she stopped working in the bar soon after. We now have a three month old baby girl and my wife has turned out to be a wonderful mother.
It is often stated on here that bar girls are only after a quick buck, however , my experience with my wife and her friends was they were working bar so they could meet farang to marry - I have a photo taken at the bar on the night we met of her and 8 co-workers (all but one from the same group of villages in Isaan) and it is interesting to note where they are now as my wife is still on contact with all of them regularly:
4 have husbands and live in europe (Switzerland, Germany and UK) - I have visited all in the last 2 years and all are happy though one still has a drink problem.
2 are back in the village (same one I live in now) - one is supported by a boyfriend in Norway and the other has a small 'restaraunt' and no boyfriend/support.
1 still works in Pattaya though she was always an older 'hardened' bar girl and the only one from a different area of Issan.
1 was ostracised from the group because she had a Thai boyfriend which the others didn't approve of - she has turned into a nasty piece of work with a drug problem.
I am hoping the above goes to show that not all bar girls ae the same and they are all individuals, as we are, and should be treated accordingly. It would be interesting to see how many of the men on here have paid bar as surely they should be catergorised in the same bracket as bar girls by those that wish to put people in boxes (including the OP who is using the 'I did not inhale' excuse), by the same token, those that haven't paid a bar girl are probably, in the main, lacking the experience or knowledge to make judgements on them and resort to the stereotypes that are prevalent here and elsewhere.
With regards to being 'embarrassed' by my wifes background, I have no problem with this and neither does my wife, frankly if people wish to judge her or me negatively then that is their problem - my family are all aware of my wifes background and, when my parents came over for our wedding, we went for a drink at the bar my wife used to work at.
Posted 2009-06-01 10:40:56
Orac, on 2009-06-01 10:35:23, said: I am hoping the above goes to show that not all bar girls ae the same and they are all individuals, as we are, and should be treated accordingly. It would be interesting to see how many of the men on here have paid bar as surely they should be catergorised in the same bracket as bar girls by those that wish to put people in boxes (including the OP who is using the 'I did not inhale' excuse), by the same token, those that haven't paid a bar girl are probably, in the main, lacking the experience or knowledge to make judgements on them and resort to the stereotypes that are prevalent here and elsewhere.
Very, very good point. Are the men who frequent bars suitable for being husband material? Can they have a happy married life? Or are they hardened beyond having the abiliyt to have a happy and "normal" relationship.
If a man has had a fling running the bars but can settle down and have a happy family wife, why not the women who work there?
Posted 2009-06-01 11:07:00
GrahamF, on 2009-06-01 08:41:58, said: Livinginexile, on 2009-05-31 17:07:46, said: It's easy to pick the guys who married a bar girl.
They say there is no difference to marrying an ordinary girl
I wonder what they tell their family and friends when they are asked where they met their wife?
Must be a very awkward moment.
Are you married to a Thai woman, and if so where did you meet her, how old was she when you met her, etc, etc? Please give us all the details.
And why would he need to do that ?. do you consider that ALL thai women are prostitutes, if so you need to study thailand a bit more and get out of pattaya ( or similar ).the discussion is about prostitutes, or ex prostitutes that foreigners have married,.if someone has a good one is is against all the odds in my opinion, most are money grabbing milking machines,if you want to risk it go ahead,.
Posted 2009-06-01 11:11:46
Does marrying a bargirl make you feel less guilty when you cheat on her?
Posted 2009-06-01 11:18:20
Livinginexile, on 2009-06-01 05:07:46, said: It's easy to pick the guys who married a bar girl.
They say there is no difference to marrying an ordinary girl
I wonder what they tell their family and friends when they are asked where they met their wife?
Must be a very awkward moment.
Obviously you look down on people who have had sex before marriage, or you would never have made such a statement. Who but pios judgemental people, who think their shit doesn't smell, look down on others because of their profession?
When I was single and in my twenties I knew dozens of women who were available for sex, and for the cost of no more than an evening's entertainment dining and dancing. They were no more and no less honest than the Thai gal who needs to support her family by playing for pay.
If I loved a bar girl enough to marry her, and she loved me, then I wouldn't care who knew what she did before we were married. If people who met her were scornful and judgemental then I would cut off all ties with them for being such low class people. When I was a young man I never asked any of the gals I took out how many lovers they had. I never called them tramps, or sluts, or any other derogatory names. They were just women who enjoyed sex as much as I did.
Posted 2009-06-01 11:24:58
IanForbes, on 2009-06-01 11:18:20, said: Livinginexile, on 2009-06-01 05:07:46, said: It's easy to pick the guys who married a bar girl.
They say there is no difference to marrying an ordinary girl
I wonder what they tell their family and friends when they are asked where they met their wife?
Must be a very awkward moment.
Obviously you look down on people who have had sex before marriage, or you would never have made such a statement. Who but pios judgemental people, who think their shit doesn't smell, look down on others because of their profession?
When I was single and in my twenties I knew dozens of women who were available for sex, and for the cost of no more than an evening's entertainment dining and dancing. They were no more and no less honest than the Thai gal who needs to support her family by playing for pay.
If I loved a bar girl enough to marry her, and she loved me, then I wouldn't care who knew what she did before we were married. If people who met her were scornful and judgemental then I would cut off all ties with them for being such low class people. When I was a young man I never asked any of the gals I took out how many lovers they had. I never called them tramps, or sluts, or any other derogatory names. They were just women who enjoyed sex as much as I did.
I dont think we are discussing partners that have had multiple lovers/partners are we ?, its about prostitutes isnt it ?. .i never knew any prostitutes in my 20s, in fact i never knew any til i came to thailand in my 40s,,nice girls some of them, marriage material ? , no thanks,.
Posted 2009-06-01 11:28:09
brianw, on 2009-06-01 00:36:45, said: My wife worked in the Poppy bar in Pattaya. we have been married for 25years it has worked for me
Because you have lot's of money! But regardless of that, what does she get upto when you're not around? Do you follow her everywhere? If I got myself in your situation I would.
Posted 2009-06-01 11:38:03
Livinginexile, on 2009-06-01 05:07:46, said: I wonder what they tell their family and friends when they are asked where they met their wife?
Must be a very awkward moment.
My first wife (English) worked for the Inland Revenue ...... I used to tell people she was a bus driver.
Posted 2009-06-01 11:39:02
I think that guesthouses statement about introducing one's wife to TV should be used as a standard generic post in such threads.
Fair play to your wife and yourself brianw, unfortunately so many on TV find it inconceivable that two people can actually marry out of love. That's their loss.
Posted 2009-06-01 11:39:22
bonobo, on 2009-06-01 10:40:56, said: Orac, on 2009-06-01 10:35:23, said: I am hoping the above goes to show that not all bar girls ae the same and they are all individuals, as we are, and should be treated accordingly. It would be interesting to see how many of the men on here have paid bar as surely they should be catergorised in the same bracket as bar girls by those that wish to put people in boxes (including the OP who is using the 'I did not inhale' excuse), by the same token, those that haven't paid a bar girl are probably, in the main, lacking the experience or knowledge to make judgements on them and resort to the stereotypes that are prevalent here and elsewhere.
Very, very good point. Are the men who frequent bars suitable for being husband material? Can they have a happy married life? Or are they hardened beyond having the abiliyt to have a happy and "normal" relationship.
If a man has had a fling running the bars but can settle down and have a happy family wife, why not the women who work there?
Good point, bonobo. I know a few married men who visit the bars occasionally and flirt with the girls, but never take one back to a room. They value their marriage too much to cheat. I also know a few married men who visit Thailand for the express purpose of playing around.
I try not to judge other's arrangements in life. It is their business and not mine.
I certainly don't class men who frequent bars (myself included) any higher than the women who work there. As I've said many times, people are only on a status level of how they treat others. If you treat people well then you are a much better person than one who treats people (of any financial class) poorly.
There are many, many women who work in bars who are not available for sex for money. Many Thai women who work in hotels, restaurants and bars will not date a farang for fear of the stigma of being classed as a prostitute... even if they aren't. It is unfortunate that even in Thailand there is a the stigma of being a prostitute. That is why women will travel a long way from their local village to work in bars in another city even when there are local bars available for them to work.
Posted 2009-06-01 11:41:16
Orac, on 2009-06-01 10:35:23, said: It is often stated on here that bar girls are only after a quick buck, however , my experience with my wife and her friends was they were working bar so they could meet farang to marry - I have a photo taken at the bar on the night we met of her and 8 co-workers (all but one from the same group of villages in Isaan) and it is interesting to note where they are now as my wife is still on contact with all of them regularly:
What kind of logical (or non-logical) behavior is this?
If I want to marry a white (farang) girl, should I become a beach boy?
Posted 2009-06-01 11:48:12
Thaddeus, on 2009-06-01 11:38:03, said: Livinginexile, on 2009-06-01 05:07:46, said: I wonder what they tell their family and friends when they are asked where they met their wife?
Must be a very awkward moment.
My first wife (English) worked for the Inland Revenue ...... I used to tell people she was a bus driver.
Posted 2009-06-01 11:49:54
SMEEERE, on 2009-06-01 11:24:58, said: I dont think we are discussing partners that have had multiple lovers/partners are we ?, its about prostitutes isnt it ?. .i never knew any prostitutes in my 20s, in fact i never knew any til i came to thailand in my 40s,,nice girls some of them, marriage material ? , no thanks,.
That is exactly my point. Women and men who have had multiple lovers prior to marriage are no better and no worse than the Thai gals who are trying to support their family by sleeping with customers. It all depends on the person involved. There are nice people and not so nice people. What about all the gold digger wives, or, the men who marry "trophy" wives? Same difference.
People who spend long periods of time away from their spouse are just asking for trouble. If a man doesn't make his wife feel loved and wanted then odds are that she will find someone who does. Same goes for the woman who doesn't keep her man happy in bed. He's going to stray if he has any libido left.
Posted 2009-06-01 11:54:59
ajarnmark, on 2009-06-01 11:41:16, said: Orac, on 2009-06-01 10:35:23, said: It is often stated on here that bar girls are only after a quick buck, however , my experience with my wife and her friends was they were working bar so they could meet farang to marry - I have a photo taken at the bar on the night we met of her and 8 co-workers (all but one from the same group of villages in Isaan) and it is interesting to note where they are now as my wife is still on contact with all of them regularly:
If I want to marry a white (farang) girl, should I become a beach boy?
It is quite logical and reasonable.
I am not sure how prevalent this is in the Thai bar scene, but in the Philippines, during the days of the US bases there, this was very, very common and widespread. For a women from the country-side a long way from the big cities, going to work in a bar where she will have daily contact with foreigners is a rational way to meet foreign men and hopefully get married. Before the advent of the internet, I would say that this was the most effective way for some woman to do this.
And yes, it is effective. Look at this one thread and the number of men who have posted here that they have married bg's. So, without trying to determine percentages of successes, it is obvious that some bg's marry foreigners, so coming to a bar to work in order to find a foreign husband is a logical and rational course of action.
Edited by bonobo, 2009-06-01 11:56:12.
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