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[Orac]

ajarnmark, on 2009-06-01 12:41:16, said:

Orac, on 2009-06-01 10:35:23, said:

It is often stated on here that bar girls are only after a quick buck, however , my experience with my wife and her friends was they were working bar so they could meet farang to marry - I have a photo taken at the bar on the night we met of her and 8 co-workers (all but one from the same group of villages in Isaan) and it is interesting to note where they are now as my wife is still on contact with all of them regularly:

What kind of logical (or non-logical) behavior is this?

If I want to marry a white (farang) girl, should I become a beach boy?

Who are you accusing of being logical here

What appears to happen is that one or two of these girls from the villages have 'done well' and married farangs and moved overseas or occasionally back to the village. All of a sudden either they or their family have a big house, new car etc which encourages others to try the same. I have read here and elsewhere that the women who go to work in bars of Pattaya and Bangkok are looked down on by others in their villages however I have not personally seen this in our village and there seems to be no stigma attached.

[IanForbes]

ajarnmark, on 2009-06-01 11:41:16, said:

Orac, on 2009-06-01 10:35:23, said:

It is often stated on here that bar girls are only after a quick buck, however , my experience with my wife and her friends was they were working bar so they could meet farang to marry - I have a photo taken at the bar on the night we met of her and 8 co-workers (all but one from the same group of villages in Isaan) and it is interesting to note where they are now as my wife is still on contact with all of them regularly:

What kind of logical (or non-logical) behavior is this?

If I want to marry a white (farang) girl, should I become a beach boy?

Certainly, if that is where the pretty white girls you are interested in hang out. You go where the action is. I've known women who only wanted to marry a pilot or a doctor. They chose careers as nurses or airline stewardesses where doctors and pilots hang out. Men who want to meet women seldom take up careers as off shore fishermen or working the oil patch in the Middle East. It's only when they come back to town with a pocket full of cash that they go to the places where the women hang out. Those kind of men are not good marriage material until they settle down in another career. That is why those guys eventually wind up with ex-bar girls who they've associated with all their lives. Whether or not it works out depends on the commitment of both spouses.

[teacup]

Many thai girls are married “into the money” or “money in mind also“, bar girls or not
The different is….what they do for a living or who they are - that makes them being seen in the society differently.

But the odd of having a long term successful relationship with a bargirl is “probably lower“, because you didn’t have a normal courtship/relationship with her at the beginning…..only the mutual benefits between “customer” and “customer services“.

However, I would say…..most of those bargirls who are with farangs are quite less attractive than normal girls, even among the issan region standard, ……
then again many farangs here don’t par too well back in their country either….hmm

hey…..Looooooove can make you go blind blind,….…. right?
But for whatever reason, if it works for them, who cares
And
I’m pretty sure, if there aren’t any mutual benefits, they wouldn’t be together.

Just from my observation

[Orac]

teacup, on 2009-06-01 13:01:30, said:

I’m pretty sure, if there aren’t any mutual benefits, they wouldn’t be together.

I would have thought any marriage/relationship would need mutual benefits, indeed that is the whole point of marriage. Are you suggesting that one side shouldn't be getting anything out of it?

[lazygourmet]

teacup, on 2009-06-01 12:01:30, said:

Many thai girls are married "into the money" or "money in mind also", bar girls or not
The different is….what they do for a living or who they are - that makes them being seen in the society differently.

But the odd of having a long term successful relationship with a bargirl is "probably lower", because you didn't have a normal courtship/relationship with her at the beginning…..only the mutual benefits between "customer" and "customer services".

However, I would say…..most of those bargirls who are with farangs are quite less attractive than normal girls, even among the issan region standard, ……
then again many farangs here don't par too well back in their country either….hmm

hey…..Looooooove can make you go blind blind,….…. right?
But for whatever reason, if it works for them, who cares
And
I'm pretty sure, if there aren't any mutual benefits, they wouldn't be together.

Just from my observation

Clever observation(s)...

[teacup]

Orac, on 2009-06-01 12:06:40, said:

teacup, on 2009-06-01 13:01:30, said:

I’m pretty sure, if there aren’t any mutual benefits, they wouldn’t be together.

I would have thought any marriage/relationship would need mutual benefits, indeed that is the whole point of marriage. Are you suggesting that one side shouldn't be getting anything out of it?

read my post again

[TerryTibbs]

LAZYTERRY, on 2009-06-01 11:28:09, said:

brianw, on 2009-06-01 00:36:45, said:

My wife worked in the Poppy bar in Pattaya. we have been married for 25years it has worked for me

Because you have lot's of money! But regardless of that, what does she get upto when you're not around? Do you follow her everywhere? If I got myself in your situation I would.

If you said that to me face to face and I had been married for 25 years to someone you wouldn't have a face.

[Orac]

teacup, on 2009-06-01 13:09:18, said:

Orac, on 2009-06-01 12:06:40, said:

teacup, on 2009-06-01 13:01:30, said:

I’m pretty sure, if there aren’t any mutual benefits, they wouldn’t be together.

I would have thought any marriage/relationship would need mutual benefits, indeed that is the whole point of marriage. Are you suggesting that one side shouldn't be getting anything out of it?

read my post again

Just have - I think your belief that bar girls with farangs are less attractive than normal girls is one of the most ridiculous statements I have seen in a long time.

With regards to the comment that a bar girl/sexpat relationship starts on the wrong footing without the usual courtship and leads to a high number of failed relationships I would probably agree with you.

I don't think anyone is naive enough not to believe that money and your ability to 'take care' of your spouse in many relationships in Thailand is a major issue.

[sanook2me]

TerryTibbs, on 2009-06-01 05:19:30, said:

LAZYTERRY, on 2009-06-01 11:28:09, said:

brianw, on 2009-06-01 00:36:45, said:

My wife worked in the Poppy bar in Pattaya. we have been married for 25years it has worked for me

Because you have lot's of money! But regardless of that, what does she get upto when you're not around? Do you follow her everywhere? If I got myself in your situation I would.

If you said that to me face to face and I had been married for 25 years to someone you wouldn't have a face.

Lazyterry what do you get up to when your wife/gf is not around

So a girl from a bar who is married for 25 years does what exactly disappears everynight to work in the bar while telling hubby she is popping to Tesco!

If a girl works in a bar and her bf is coming here on holiday for a short romance you expect her to stay at home knitting while she earns money how?

Now, if a girl is living with her bf why would she play around and risk the security of a relationship? doesn't make sense too me.

[teacup]

Orac, on 2009-06-01 12:21:42, said:

teacup, on 2009-06-01 13:09:18, said:

Orac, on 2009-06-01 12:06:40, said:

teacup, on 2009-06-01 13:01:30, said:

I’m pretty sure, if there aren’t any mutual benefits, they wouldn’t be together.

I would have thought any marriage/relationship would need mutual benefits, indeed that is the whole point of marriage. Are you suggesting that one side shouldn't be getting anything out of it?

read my post again

Just have - I think your belief that bar girls with farangs are less attractive than normal girls is one of the most ridiculous statements I have seen in a long time.

I didn't say anything bad about those bargirls.

However the OP seems to imply he wants to talk about the physical beauty also.

So my inputs is just that....

The “physical attractiveness“…..even for the issan region standard, among issan people
Just check out all those likae group, country singers, and many beauty pageant competition in the region.

Oohh …I have seen many and I mean here…. maaany beautiful girls from the issan region.

I was just speaking from my observations, however your observation may be diff than mine.

[piglet373]

how can a thread bout bargirls get this far? tv need the clicks or what?

[piglet373]

[/quote]

Just have - I think your belief that bar girls with farangs are less attractive than normal girls is one of the most ridiculous statements I have seen in a long time.

[/quote]

I didn't say anything bad about those bargirls.

However the OP seems to imply he wants to talk about the physical beauty also.

So my inputs is just that....

The "physical attractiveness"…..even for the issan region standard, among issan people
Just check out all those likae group, country singers, and many beauty pageant competition in the region.

Oohh …I have seen many and I mean here…. maaany beautiful girls from the issan region.

I was just speaking from my observations, however your observation may be diff than mine.

[/quote]

there are many beautiful women from issan, its just that these dont marry farangs! those that do marry , as a group, are downright unatttractive!

[meadish_sweetball]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, or in the case of bar patrons, in the eye of the beer holder.

The Thai concept of beautiful is different from the Western one.

For Thais it seems skin colour is the first base, followed by other features. For Westerners, skin colour is usually not as relevant as other things, like body tone... and apart from that, people have their own individual preferences too.

Which should be a good thing, otherwise we'd all hang out for the exact same partners and it would be more difficult for us to find somebody.

[Orac]

teacup, on 2009-06-01 13:33:36, said:

I didn't say anything bad about those bargirls.

However the OP seems to imply he wants to talk about the physical beauty also.

So my inputs is just that....

The “physical attractiveness“…..even for the issan region standard, among issan people
Just check out all those likae group, country singers, and many beauty pageant competition in the region.

Oohh …I have seen many and I mean here…. maaany beautiful girls from the issan region.

I was just speaking from my observations, however your observation may be diff than mine.

My apologies if I misunderstood your post, you seemed to be differentiating between bar girls with farang and those without along with 'normal' Thai girls. I could be wrong but it seemed a generalisation too far to me. There is of course the arguement that the good looking ladies prepared to work in the 'entertainment' industry are snapped up quickly or work in more lucrative areas than bars and are therefore less visible.

[bonobo]

meadish_sweetball, on 2009-06-01 12:45:00, said:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, or in the case of bar patrons, in the eye of the beer holder.

The Thai concept of beautiful is different from the Western one.

For Thais it seems skin colour is the first base, followed by other features. For Westerners, skin colour is usually not as relevant as other things, like body tone... and apart from that, people have their own individual preferences too.

Which should be a good thing, otherwise we'd all hang out for the exact same partners and it would be more difficult for us to find somebody.

And thank goodness for those individual preferences!

[teacup]

Orac, on 2009-06-01 12:51:22, said:

teacup, on 2009-06-01 13:33:36, said:

I didn't say anything bad about those bargirls.

However the OP seems to imply he wants to talk about the physical beauty also.

So my inputs is just that....

The “physical attractiveness“…..even for the issan region standard, among issan people
Just check out all those likae group, country singers, and many beauty pageant competition in the region.

Oohh …I have seen many and I mean here…. maaany beautiful girls from the issan region.

I was just speaking from my observations, however your observation may be diff than mine.

My apologies if I misunderstood your post, you seemed to be differentiating between bar girls with farang and those without along with 'normal' Thai girls. I could be wrong but it seemed a generalisation too far to me. There is of course the arguement that the good looking ladies prepared to work in the 'entertainment' industry are snapped up quickly or work in more lucrative areas than bars and are therefore less visible.

No problem

It's true the real stunners are mostly snapped up early on like you just said.
And the stunners with education are mostly marrying into rich families (local or not), or with many local high rank officials w/ similar ages.

These are just the facts what I have known or seen.

[piglet373]

worldwide is the same same..

few very goodlooking at top.few ridiculously horrible looking at bottom. the bell curve thing.

ugly thai girls would be ugly in any country. beautiful thai girls same in any country.


NOW IT JUST HAPPENS THE MAJORITY OF FARANGS LIKE EM AT THE LOWER END OF THE BELL CURVE. these girls would be funky lookers in any place not just here! ITS NOT THE COLOR OF SKIN THAT MAKES ONES LOOK.

miss boyle is white yet im sure most thais would say she is a bit on the hideous side.

ITS ALL BOUT THE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.! EXCEPTIONS DULY NOTED!

[piglet373]

teacup, on 2009-06-01 12:59:20, said:

Orac, on 2009-06-01 12:51:22, said:

teacup, on 2009-06-01 13:33:36, said:

I didn't say anything bad about those bargirls.

However the OP seems to imply he wants to talk about the physical beauty also.

So my inputs is just that....

The "physical attractiveness"…..even for the issan region standard, among issan people
Just check out all those likae group, country singers, and many beauty pageant competition in the region.

Oohh …I have seen many and I mean here…. maaany beautiful girls from the issan region.

I was just speaking from my observations, however your observation may be diff than mine.

My apologies if I misunderstood your post, you seemed to be differentiating between bar girls with farang and those without along with 'normal' Thai girls. I could be wrong but it seemed a generalisation too far to me. There is of course the arguement that the good looking ladies prepared to work in the 'entertainment' industry are snapped up quickly or work in more lucrative areas than bars and are therefore less visible.

No problem

It's true the real stunners are mostly snapped up early on like you just said.
And the stunners with education are mostly marrying into rich families (local or not), or with many local high rank officials w/ similar ages.

These are just the facts what I have known or seen.

remember stunners have a choice in their mate. others dont, they take what available, and whats available is older men, w sociail security, boozing, balding type.

[greenwood01]

"want meet farang" is not an excuse to the couple posters that posted this.

If they were good looking young girls and wanted to meet farangs for marriage, they could hang out at mbk/paragon or any other full of farang area, or even expat restaurants and get into conversation with many farangs on a daily basis instead of banging anyone for 1k baht and having drunk conversations in druken bargirl english.

That leaves her clean, far from prostitution, with free food and a good reputation. probably gets her a better vocabulary then hansum man + u boom boom, u pay.

[teacup]

piglet373, on 2009-06-01 13:05:40, said:

remember stunners have a choice in their mate. others dont, they take what available, and whats available is older men, w sociail security, boozing, balding type.

I just stop at my last post in my fair reporting.

Ok missy.....you are on your own now... chok dee

[Heng]

meadish_sweetball, on 2009-06-01 12:45:00, said:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, or in the case of bar patrons, in the eye of the beer holder.

The Thai concept of beautiful is different from the Western one.

For Thais it seems skin colour is the first base, followed by other features. For Westerners, skin colour is usually not as relevant as other things, like body tone... and apart from that, people have their own individual preferences too.

There are some finer brushes that can be introduced to that spectrum. Not having had children before, not having only 5-15 more years before menopause, not having multiple plastic surgeries from different sponsors, not having strains of STD's from different continents, etc. are some that could be called "universal" and not just "Thai" or "western."

[piglet373]

teacup, on 2009-06-01 13:13:23, said:

piglet373, on 2009-06-01 13:05:40, said:

remember stunners have a choice in their mate. others dont, they take what available, and whats available is older men, w sociail security, boozing, balding type.

I just stop at my last post in my fair reporting.

Ok missy.....you are on your own now... chok dee

you see what i see! i got no ax to grind.

[Orac]

greenwood01, on 2009-06-01 14:12:55, said:

"want meet farang" is not an excuse to the couple posters that posted this.

If they were good looking young girls and wanted to meet farangs for marriage, they could hang out at mbk/paragon or any other full of farang area, or even expat restaurants and get into conversation with many farangs on a daily basis instead of banging anyone for 1k baht and having drunk conversations in druken bargirl english.

That leaves her clean, far from prostitution, with free food and a good reputation. probably gets her a better vocabulary then hansum man + u boom boom, u pay.

Might work for those that live in BKK but our village is 30 mins from the nearest Lotus and that isn't a very big one!

[piglet373]

Heng, on 2009-06-01 13:13:27, said:

meadish_sweetball, on 2009-06-01 12:45:00, said:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, or in the case of bar patrons, in the eye of the beer holder.

The Thai concept of beautiful is different from the Western one.

For Thais it seems skin colour is the first base, followed by other features. For Westerners, skin colour is usually not as relevant as other things, like body tone... and apart from that, people have their own individual preferences too.

There are some finer brushes that can be introduced to that spectrum. Not having had children before, not having only 5-15 more years before menopause, not having multiple plastic surgeries from different sponsors, not having strains of STD's from different continents, etc. are some that could be called "universal" and not just "Thai" or "western."

before i get banned !


uglee is uglee the world over . AN UGLY AFRICAN WOULD BE ULGY THE WORLD OVER.

NOW AMONG THE UGLY CATEGORY INDIVIDUALS WOULD DIFFER WHO IS THE UGLIEST, THATS WHERE EYE OF BEOHLDER THING COMES IN.

[bonobo]

I hate to stray a little off-topic here as I think this thread is interesting and I want it to stay open. But I have to take issue with this whole farang/Issan beauty thing here.

Of course, the more beautiful women who choose to work in this arena would go to the venue with the highest payback.  On the whole, a beautiful woman with a high education is going to where she can attract rich, acceptable Thai man, and that is not going to be at Nana.  On the other end of the scale, a woman without so many easily-identifiable attributes will be wherever the lowest-class establishment is.

But to say that foreigners are only with "ugly Issan" women is pretty farcical.  First of all, there are more women in Thailand who are with foreigners than women from Issan.  Secondly, the women run the gamut, as far as pure physical appearance, from stunning to homely, just as any population does. Thirdly, many of the mixed couples you can see have been together for along time.  We have a poster here who has been married for 25 years. So many of the women in these relationships are not spring chickens.  They aren't 20 years old anymore.  And as nature works, a 40 or 50-year-old woman is not a "pretty" on the outside as a 20-year-old, accorrding to most cultures.

I spend most of my time in Thailand with Thais, and as men do, we talk about women; who is pretty, who is beautiful, etc.  The only major difference I see from a cultural standpoint is that most white and black foreigners don't seem to be too concerned with skin tone to the degree that Thai men are, and most Thai men seem to like slenderness to a higher degree than foreigners.  But beyond that, beauty is beauty.  We seem to like the same thing.