157 replies to this topic
Posted 2009-06-21 21:52:52
 lordsux, on 2009-06-20 21:21:31, said:
Pooklook, on 2009-06-20 18:00:50, said: fabianfred, on 2009-06-11 20:17:52, said: Rules....!!!
I declare there are no rules...... no limit to the number of images........true HDR and pseudo (tone mapped) are allowed.
Fill ya boots!
pseudo HDR is allowed according to Fabianfred. pseudo HDR is Single Source Image HDR 
<snip>
The idea of these challenges is to have fun, but also to learn new techniques.
<snip>
Please no personal attack allowed and this is NOT 'Evauate my photo' also.
Kan Win 
Personal attack!??? Seems more like you are the one doing the attacking Kan Win. Pulling apart my post as you see fit, and then falsely accusing me in big red letters of personal attacks is downright ridiculous! and more of a personal attack directed at me. Where in the mutilated post did I make this personal attack or flame anyone? Exactly, I didn't. It's not my style. Complimenting the image for what it is, and at the same time trying to help the poster to understand the workings of HDR imagery is not a personal attack at all. (It was after all his first attempt at HDR) The post was helpful and informative before you hacked it up.
I know that this is not the 'Evaluate my Photo' but I don't see anywhere where is states 'constructive criticism and polite helpful advice is not allowed' on Challenges. It should in fact be welcomed so that we can learn how to do things properly.
I really think you have overstepped the mark on this one.
I actually logged on to submit a real HDR image in the challenge, but after seeing this example of 'personal moderation' I think I will wait until there is a real HDR challenge instead of this 'post what you want and call it HDR' version.
No doubt this post will be hacked up like the previous, and I will be falsely hung out as someone that makes 'Personal attacks' again.
Unbelievable really!
Posted 2009-06-21 22:52:00
Kan Win, on 2009-06-21 18:51:16, said: One shot or a true HDR taken with many shots?
Not to be flaming or anything to be taken personally, just need to clarify to the uninformed readers:
Any picture file created with an algorhythm which store more tonal range than a LDR (Low dynamic range) is called HDR, even single shot 8bit raw files.
Shooting several exposure is a method to get HDR from LDR files, if you do with 3 or more HDR of course you get more ranges with less shots.
Also, HDR video camera are available on the market, and for the nature of video is uncommon and/or impossible to shoot many time the same identical take, but still you get an HDR footage.
Edited by aeon, 2009-06-21 23:09:56.
Posted 2009-06-21 23:40:53
Posted 2009-06-22 11:53:42
lordsux, on 2009-06-21 23:40:53, said:
If you read well (or more times) my post and the pages you linked, you will discover they say the same thing: You cannot get HDR from 1 single LDR picture file.
If google is your holy book (not mine), then you can go further than the first page of results, and partly solve any lack whatever it is (uniformation or misinformation).
Here is a link which explain differences between different methods and softwares; However even if is not really accurate, it can be a good introduction for the practical use:
http://digital-photo...nge-imaging-hdr
If you prefer wikipedia:
"An algorithm is applied to the six images to recreate the high dynamic range radiance map of the original scene (a high dynamic range image). Alternatively, some higher-end consumer and specialist scientific digital cameras are able to record a high dynamic range image directly, for example with RAW images."
link: http://en.wikipedia....ki/Tone_mapping
Sorry if I have no time to do a more accurate text by myself, all the linked pages lack of a very deep explanation of many technical and perception issues.
Uninformation better than misinformation? Not so sure, lazyness is the worst, is always better to know than believe.
Posted 2009-06-22 13:07:25
Some think that it's possible to get blood out of a stone, some think macs are better than PC's, some think that the chicken came before the egg, and some think that is is possible to get something out of pixels that isn't there.
Maybe it's best just to agree to disagree. There will always be some that disagree with the majority, which in itself is a good thing. It would be a very boring existence if we all had the same opinions.
Just for information, I downloaded a 30 day evaluation version of Corel's Photoimpact x 3 yesterday which has a pretty nifty HDR capability built in. Maybe worth a try for those who prefer to do all their PP on a single application.
Good luck all with the challenge and hope that we all have learnt a little more about the very complex technique of HDR imagery.
Edited by lordsux, 2009-06-22 13:29:11.
Posted 2009-06-22 18:30:20
FAQ on Photomatix Pro - Tips & Tricks
Quote I have a RAW file. Can I make different exposures with it to use in your software?
Yes, you can still use Photomatix when you have shot only one exposure in RAW mode. The big advantage, of course, is that you just need one image, so there is no need to use a tripod or to remember to auto-bracket, and it will also work if the subject is moving.
owever, the range of "workable" exposures you can get from a RAW file is limited. If you are shooting a high contrast scene, you are unlikely to match the results you would have with taking the scene under different exposures that can cover the whole dynamic range.
There are three techniques for using Photomatix with one single exposure taken in RAW mode:
Technique 1: Open your RAW file in Photomatix to convert it into a pseudo-HDR image, then tone map it.
Technique 2: Convert your RAW file into a 16 bits/channel image in your favorite RAW converter, open it in Photomatix, and tone map it.
Technique 3: Create two or three exposures in your RAW converter and combine them in Photomatix as it they were "real" bracketed shots 
Technique # 3 gives generally the best results. Also, it has the advantage of working with Exposure Blending.
For good results with these techniques, it is important to ensure the lowest noise level at capture time. For that, set the lowest ISO possible (ISO 100 for instance) and expose for the shadows when taking the RAW image, i.e. overexpose your shot. Even though the histogram of your camera may indicate that highlights will be lost, you should still be able to recover them during RAW conversion (unless the scene is too high contrast, but then a single image will not be sufficient for good results with Photomatix). There are two examples obtained this way here.
Deriving "fake" exposures from a single RAW file (technique 3 above) is theoretically an improper way of creating a 32-bit HDR image. If you intend to use the HDR image file for 3D rendering, then you should not use this technique, as you will not get accurate linear pixel values required for image based lighting. However, if you are only interested in the tone mapped result, then creating "fake" exposures is a valuable technique, as long as you get improved results over technique 1 or 2.
You can see some examples obtained with technique 3 in this user gallery for instance. Also, this tutorial on RAW HDR Processing details the technique.
On the other hand, some high end cameras have sensors with a depth of 14 bits, which means two f-stops more of dynamic range. It is definitely a good idea to try the Tone Mapping tool of Photomatix on the 16-bit TIFF file derived from the the RAW data of such cameras. Also, the dynamic range of the RAWs of the Fuji S3 and S5 Pro is higher than RAWs of other DSLRs.
Yours truly,
Kan Win
Posted 2009-06-22 21:27:12
Thanks Kan Win, good quote.
As a user of a 14bit raw dslr camera, I really recommend this file format to whoever need an higher range of f-stops for post processing single shots, recommended for action shots (a bit over exposed).
Edited by aeon, 2009-06-22 21:52:12.
Posted 2009-06-22 23:33:12
lordsux, on 2009-06-22 13:07:25, said: and some think that is is possible to get something out of pixels that isn't there.
if you mean to get details from white over exposed pixels from a single RAW file (especially from 14bit), then you definitively can (limited to a good range of f-stops). If you want to get other things from those pixels then... depends...
Edited by aeon, 2009-06-22 23:41:16.
Posted 2009-06-23 01:07:32
As I no longer can trust 'quotes' on this sub-forum as content can so easily be removed and then things that were never written can be proclaimed in an almost slanderous way, I clicked the link to the Photomatix FAQ, and sure enough the word 'fake' is used. Along with the attached splashscreen from the program and the definition of 'Pseudo' from dictionary.com it seems that even HDRsoft the company that makes Photomatix agree that their program cannot make real HDR images from single files, kudos to them for not trying to convince people that they are by naming them 'pseudo-HDR' files.
pseu⋅do
/ˈsudoʊ/ [soo-doh]
–adjective
1. not actually but having the appearance of; pretended; false or spurious; sham.
2. almost, approaching, or trying to be.
So all in all a very good link that should put an end to this discussion. (this is the internet, so I doubt it though)
Yours truly,
lordsux
Posted 2009-06-23 01:36:47
lordsux, on 2009-06-23 01:07:32, said: As I no longer can trust 'quotes' on this sub-forum as content can so easily be removed and then things that were never written can be proclaimed in an almost slanderous way, I clicked the link to the Photomatix FAQ, and sure enough the word 'fake' is used. Along with the attached splashscreen from the program and the definition of 'Pseudo' from dictionary.com it seems that even HDRsoft the company that makes Photomatix agree that their program cannot make real HDR images from single files, kudos to them for not trying to convince people that they are by naming them 'pseudo-HDR' files.
pseu⋅do
/ˈsudoʊ/ [soo-doh]
–adjective
1. not actually but having the appearance of; pretended; false or spurious; sham.
2. almost, approaching, or trying to be.
So all in all a very good link that should put an end to this discussion. (this is the internet, so I doubt it though)
Yours truly,
lordsux
sorry I don't use Photomatix or pseudo-hdr, but consider that it costs just 99$ there might be a reason...
in thailand you can get a pseudo-rolex for very good price 
Edited by aeon, 2009-06-23 01:39:37.
Posted 2009-06-23 01:57:04
If you haven't already then you should give it a try, it's very good at what it does. In fact probably the leading application for creating HDR images.
Posted 2009-06-23 03:14:42
let's have a picture..... as a relief from all this bickering....
Posted 2009-06-23 03:29:59
Posted 2009-06-23 19:27:14
fabianfred, on 2009-06-23 03:14:42, said: let's have a picture..... as a relief from all this bickering....
Yes, thank you 'fabianfred' cheers 
Yours truly,
Kan Win
Posted 2009-06-23 19:51:01
I hope you don't mind Kan Win and Fabian if I put these shots in as they are no competition with the pros here. They are to perhaps give some an incentive (or disincentive) to try their hand at HDR. This is my first attempt at it in order to test software and technique and also my only view at the moment is out my backdoor.
Dug up the manual on my Canon S5IS after HDR was brought up and found I have auto-bracketing on it. Set for +/- 2ev the below are before (left) and after (right) cooking plus a little PS CS3 fudging. Sure turns a flat dull image into something more dynamic. The main work was in Photomatix 3.0
Picture_008_orginal.jpg 246.6K
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Picture_Picture_008_HDR.jpg 411.18K
22 downloadsjpg]
Picture_011_original.jpg 295.25K
3 downloads
Picture_Picture_011__HDR.jpg 286.9K
4 downloadsjpg]
Posted 2009-06-23 20:35:54
Tywais, on 2009-06-23 19:51:01, said: I hope you don't mind Kan Win and Fabian if I put these shots in as they are no competition with the pros here. They are to perhaps give some an incentive (or disincentive) to try their hand at HDR. This is my first attempt at it in order to test software and technique and also my only view at the moment is out my backdoor.
Dug up the manual on my Canon S5IS after HDR was brought up and found I have auto-bracketing on it. Set for +/- 2ev the below are before (left) and after (right) cooking plus a little PS CS3 fudging. Sure turns a flat dull image into something more dynamic. The main work was in Photomatix 3.0
 Picture_..._008_HDR.jpgQuote Sure turns a flat dull image into something more dynamic.
Woooww the DOF in this photo really comes out great.
Wish me Oly E-3 could get that DOF 
We all live and learn so get cracking with more of your "out my backdoor veiw". 
Yours truly,
Kan Win
P.S. adjusted this on ACDSee pro 2.5 into something more dynamic
Picture_Picture_008_HDR_1___Edit.jpg 869.68K
23 downloads
P.S.S. sorry for the noise in me adjusted photo, but had only a little one to play with
Edited by Kan Win, 2009-06-23 20:51:49.
Posted 2009-06-23 21:47:45
It's a S5 IS not too many of those in circulation  Great cam for HDR it can even shoot RAW/DNG format with the CDHK upgrade. Wouldn't surprise me if Canon discontinued it because it is the poor mans DSLR when CDHK is running on it.
Edited by lordsux, 2009-06-23 21:48:09.
Pooklook
Senior Member
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Posted 2009-06-25 00:59:42
Another pseudo HDR from Khaosan Rd.
A fun place to sit and drink semi cold beer
and take tons of pictures
KhaosanRd_HDR2_copy.jpg 573.74K
37 downloads
Posted 2009-06-30 10:40:08
what is happened to this challenge??? everything so static...
Posted 2009-06-30 14:59:03
A cloudy pseudo-HDR Panorama
Posted 2009-06-30 16:31:56
"It is important to remember that Pseudo HDR process does not tone-map a real HDR file, it simulate the look of a tone-mapped image on a single 8-bit source. It is a Pseudo HDR Tone-Mapping. The result can be sometimes very good, other time it may create a noisy image... it all depends on how well exposed is the single source image."
source:http://www.mediachance.com/hdri/help/index.html?fitymi_mapping.htm
"Fake (Pseudo) HDR is a special new process that can create HDR-like tone-mapped image from only a single JPG file (For single RAW we still advice to go for full HDR processing). It is very simple (fun and fast too).
source:http://www.mediachance.com/hdri/fakehdr.html
Posted 2009-06-30 18:00:22
lordsux, on 2009-06-30 14:59:03, said: A cloudy pseudo-HDR Panorama
For Clouds I give it 10
and for Panoramic sad to say another 10
I am a big softy for Panoramic Photography 
Very nice photo 'lordsux' Thank you.
Yours truly,
Win from Kan 
P.S. Now we are cooking on gas in this HDR thread 
#73
The Vulcan
Posted 2009-06-30 18:27:03
lordsux, on 2009-06-30 14:59:03, said: A cloudy pseudo-HDR Panorama
Exceptional image - awesome atmosphere and sharp to boot.
Posted 2009-06-30 19:03:24
Went to 'Uthai Thani' last weekend with my wife as we have always passed this place either going to Chaing Mai or back as per her request. 
Look what I found......... 
All real 3 shots, hand held Oly E-3 RAW
Did not what to make it too Dynamic, but can
Yours truly,
Win from Kan
Posted 2009-06-30 19:18:49
In the same Temple grounds I found this
Must have been a one shot not sure, will get back to you all once I verify it. Working on two computers btw. 
Yours truly,
Win from Kan
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