Posted 2005-03-26 01:23:57
Richard W, on 2005-03-26 00:30:15, said: TIS-620 does not have a character for 0xA0, which is non-breaking space in ISO-8859-11. Windows-874 has different mappings for 0x80 to 0x9F, including punctuation; ISO-8859-11 assigns these to C1 control characters, and MacThai uses them for kerning tone marks, maitaikhu and superscript vowels. Windows-874 and ISO-8859-11 are superscripts of TIS-620; MacThai conflicts for some of the Thai characters used only rarely, such as yamakkan, angkhankhu and khomut.
One problem with switching to the Thai encoding is that accented vowels, which Meadish Sweetball often uses to show the tone, will then become Thai characters!
It may be that Safari can't cope. Have you tried Firefox? Firefox works fine with this site under Windows XP. I've a feeling that the text sent via forms is not a well-defined area under the standards. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for those details, Richard. I'm having a bit of trouble with Firefox's encoding - I can't seem to make it stay with Thai ISO 8859-11. It kept changing back to Western 5889-1 (I think that was the one) so I've been a bit drastic and removed English from Tools / Options / General / Languages and also I have set Tools / View / Encoding / Auto Detect to "OFF".
If you use Firefox and don't have this problem, can you say what settings you have for languages, encoding, etc?
Posted 2005-03-26 03:00:15
RDN, on 2005-03-25 18:23:57, said: Thanks for those details, Richard. I'm having a bit of trouble with Firefox's encoding - I can't seem to make it stay with Thai ISO 8859-11. It kept changing back to Western 5889-1 (I think that was the one) so I've been a bit drastic and removed English from Tools / Options / General / Languages and also I have set Tools / View / Encoding / Auto Detect to "OFF".
The pages from this site are explicitly marked as being in the iso-8859-1 encoding! No 'auto-detection' is required!
Quote If you use Firefox and don't have this problem, can you say what settings you have for languages, encoding, etc?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One reason I've had no problems may be that I am using Windows XP. I have upgraded to Service Pack 2 (and am none to pleased to discover that IE now regards a lot of javascript as unsafe.)
Windows XP Settings:
Regional options: English (United Kingdom)
Location: United Kingdom
Language Settings:
Default: English (United-Kingdom) - United States - International
Other language/keyboard options set up:
English (United States) - US keyboard
Thai - Thai Kedmanee (non-ShiftLock)
Catalan - KhmerOS - Khmer Unicode Keyboard
Switch between input languages: Left Alt + Shift
Advanced Text Services: Neither extended nor switched off.
Something makes Notepad think that the ANSI encoding includes TIS-620!
Firefox 1.0 settings
Tools/Options/General/Languages/Languages: Empty
Tools/Options/General/Languages/Default character encoding: ISO-8859-1 (Western)
View/Character encoding - no special setting - I usually just let it drift, so it's currently showing ISO-8859-1. When I was viewing Yahoo groups pages, I set it to UTF-8, and it stayed there.
Which version of Firefox are you using?
I have had form problems - see Thai-Language Firefox Issues, and I'm not sure how they are consistent with the behaviour seen on ThaiVisa.com. The only problem I've had here iwth Firefox has been with fonts for Thai, which is a relatively minor issue. As a solution, I seem to have made Tahoma the default font for nearly everything!
Edited by Richard W, 2005-03-26 03:01:45.
Posted 2005-03-26 03:36:32
RDN, on 2005-03-26 04:23:57, said: If you use Firefox and don't have this problem, can you say what settings you have for languages, encoding, etc?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I tried the Mac version of Firefox and it was worse. I couldn't get it to display the Thai text in this thread no matter what encoding I set.
Posted 2005-03-26 03:55:42
[quote name='Richard W' date='2005-03-26 03:00:15']The pages from this site are explicitly marked as being in the iso-8859-1 encoding! No 'auto-detection' is required![/quote]Yes, but I thought turning off auto-detect might stop it changing its encoding method. I had hoped it would stick to the method I specify in View / Character Encoding
[quote][quote]If you use Firefox and don't have this problem, can you say what settings you have for languages, encoding, etc?[right] <{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/right][/quote]
One reason I've had no problems may be that I am using Windows XP. I have upgraded to Service Pack 2 (and am none to pleased to discover that IE now regards a lot of javascript as unsafe.)[/quote]Me too - WinXP SP2
[quote] Windows XP Settings:
Regional options: English (United Kingdom)
Location: United Kingdom
Language Settings:
Default: English (United-Kingdom) - United States - International
Other language/keyboard options set up:
English (United States) - US keyboard
Thai - Thai Kedmanee (non-ShiftLock)
Catalan - KhmerOS - Khmer Unicode Keyboard
Switch between input languages: Left Alt + Shift
Advanced Text Services: Neither extended nor switched off.
Something makes Notepad think that the ANSI encoding includes TIS-620!
Firefox 1.0 settings
Tools/Options/General/Languages/Languages: Empty
Tools/Options/General/Languages/Default character encoding: ISO-8859-1 (Western)
View/Character encoding - no special setting - I usually just let it drift, so it's currently showing ISO-8859-1. When I was viewing Yahoo groups pages, I set it to UTF-8, and it stayed there.[/quote]OK, I'll check all my settings against yours and see what happens when I change them. This'll probably take some time, so I doubt I'll post again tonight (er... this morning) 
[quote]Which version of Firefox are you using?[/quote]Two minutes ago - literally - I upgraded my Firefox to 1.0.2 - I've been using 1.0.1 for a long time.
[quote]I have had form problems - see [url="http://www.thai-language.com/ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=000056"]Thai-Language Firefox Issues[/url], and I'm not sure how they are consistent with the behaviour seen on ThaiVisa.com. The only problem I've had here with Firefox has been with fonts for Thai, which is a relatively minor issue. As a solution, I seem to have made Tahoma the default font for nearly everything![right] <{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/right][/quote]
OK, I'll have a long play and report back tomorrow. Cheers! 
Posted 2005-03-26 04:00:12
Andrew Mac, on 2005-03-25 20:59:26, said:
Thanks Andrew, great little utility. I love the way it gives the name of the Thai character as well. Very cool.
Posted 2005-03-26 07:25:26
Another experiment:
Tried sending e-mail with Thai text using both GMail and Yahoo! mail. Didn't change any encodings. Thai text arrived just fine in Apple's Mail client when sent from GMail but was just question marks when sent from Yahoo! mail.
I guess it depends on how both the host server and web client handle the encoding of text in forms.
BTW - If I display the raw source of the successful mail message the Thai is encoded like this:
=E0=B9=84=E0=B8=A1=E0=B8=84
(Same text as above.)
Edited by mgnewman, 2005-03-26 07:38:24.
Posted 2005-03-26 07:53:26
mgnewman, on 2005-03-26 00:25:26, said: Tried sending e-mail with Thai text using both GMail and Yahoo! mail. Didn't change any encodings. Thai text arrived just fine in Apple's Mail client when sent from GMail but was just question marks when sent from Yahoo! mail.
BTW - If I display the raw source of the successful mail message the Thai is encoded like this:
=E0=B9=84=E0=B8=A1=E0=B8=84
(Same text as above.)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's UTF-8. It says ไมค.
You should be able to use Firefox on the Mac to read the Thai text I've just added to 'Why Are Thai Letters So Hard To Read?'. It is stored as numeric entities, so it should be displayable no matter what the encoding (unless the web page collapses in a complete mess). Perhaps you need to change your default fonts for Thai. What is it displaying as?
Posted 2005-03-26 12:57:02
Richard W, on 2005-03-26 10:53:26, said: mgnewman, on 2005-03-26 00:25:26, said: Tried sending e-mail with Thai text using both GMail and Yahoo! mail. Didn't change any encodings. Thai text arrived just fine in Apple's Mail client when sent from GMail but was just question marks when sent from Yahoo! mail.
BTW - If I display the raw source of the successful mail message the Thai is encoded like this:
=E0=B9=84=E0=B8=A1=E0=B8=84
(Same text as above.)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's UTF-8. It says ???.
Which is explained here:
UTF-8
And, of course, UnicodeChecker, mentioned above, gives the UTF-8 codes, along with many others.
Richard W, on 2005-03-26 10:53:26, said: You should be able to use Firefox on the Mac to read the Thai text I've just added to 'Why Are Thai Letters So Hard To Read?'. It is stored as numeric entities, so it should be displayable no matter what the encoding (unless the web page collapses in a complete mess). Perhaps you need to change your default fonts for Thai. What is it displaying as?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nope, can't get Firefox to display the Thai Text. Your ซ displayed as an ę and your ช displays as a trademark symbol ™. I tried changing the default font to Lucidia Grande (a complete Unicode type face) and tried all available Thai encodings....
Posted 2005-03-26 14:22:56
mgnewman, on 2005-03-26 12:57:02, said: Richard W, on 2005-03-26 10:53:26, said: You should be able to use Firefox on the Mac to read the Thai text I've just added to 'Why Are Thai Letters So Hard To Read?'. It is stored as numeric entities, so it should be displayable no matter what the encoding (unless the web page collapses in a complete mess). Perhaps you need to change your default fonts for Thai. What is it displaying as?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nope, can't get Firefox to display the Thai Text. Your ? displayed as an ? and your ? displays as a trademark symbol ?. I tried changing the default font to Lucidia Grande (a complete Unicode type face) and tried all available Thai encodings....
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Mike!
I'm really sorry to read about your continuing problems. I don't have any problems with Thai encoding with Firefox on my own Mac (OS 10.3.8, Firefox 1.0.2.).
Sorry if this sounds like a silly question, but you mention that you changed the "default font" to Lucida Grande ... but did you also change the font for Thai as well? If you'd like any help sorting this out and don't want to take up forum space, please feel free to contact me via Personal Message, and we'll see if we can't fix things up!
I notice as well you've taken to posting your Thai and non-standard roman characters as HTML entities ... Unicode Checker becoming quite handy, perhaps?
Posted 2005-03-27 03:22:04
Andrew Mac, on 2005-03-26 17:22:56, said: I'm really sorry to read about your continuing problems. I don't have any problems with Thai encoding with Firefox on my own Mac (OS 10.3.8, Firefox 1.0.2.).
Sorry if this sounds like a silly question, but you mention that you changed the "default font" to Lucida Grande ... but did you also change the font for Thai as well? If you'd like any help sorting this out and don't want to take up forum space, please feel free to contact me via Personal Message, and we'll see if we can't fix things up!
Finally got it to work by checking the "Always use my fonts" box....
Andrew Mac, on 2005-03-26 17:22:56, said: I notice as well you've taken to posting your Thai and non-standard roman characters as HTML entities ... Unicode Checker becoming quite handy, perhaps?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well, I thought I'd try it since I downloaded it. I want to be able to enter Thai script in this forum in a format that every browser can read.
But, try this: Enter some time script encoded as HTML using UnicodeChecker. Then go back and edit your post. When I do this with Safari, the text to edit contains not the HTML encoded characters, but question marks for every one....
Edited by mgnewman, 2005-03-27 03:25:18.
Posted 2005-03-27 07:07:16
mgnewman, on 2005-03-27 03:22:04, said: Well, I thought I'd try it since I downloaded it. I want to be able to enter Thai script in this forum in a format that every browser can read.
But, try this: Enter some time script encoded as HTML using UnicodeChecker. Then go back and edit your post. When I do this with Safari, the text to edit contains not the HTML encoded characters, but question marks for every one....
<{POST_SNAPBACK}> ...I know, but what has happened to your head!!!
Posted 2005-03-27 08:15:47
RDN, on 2005-03-27 10:07:16, said:
After reading another thread I thought it was time for a little animation.
Like it?
BTW - Anyone know the name of the product from which my avatar is taken?
Posted 2005-03-27 16:29:45
mgnewman, on 2005-03-27 08:15:47, said: RDN, on 2005-03-27 10:07:16, said:
After reading another thread I thought it was time for a little animation.
Like it?
BTW - Anyone know the name of the product from which my avatar is taken?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No, but I'd like to know what s/w you used to make the animation
Posted 2005-03-27 21:14:01
RDN, on 2005-03-27 19:29:45, said:
I used a Mac program called Graphic Converter.
I cut the image from here:
I then edited the image to make three different head sizes and then combined the images into one animated GIF.
Posted 2005-03-27 21:33:14
OK, thanks. There are some similar programs for PCs too - Active Gif Creator, Advanced Gif Animator, Easy Gif Animator, Gif Construction Set, etc. Some of them are in fact the same program, so I don't know what is going on with them! But they are a bit "clunky" - not easy or intuitive to use.
Posted 2005-05-23 21:30:52
RDN, on 2005-02-13 11:23:25, said: Windows XP operating system:
Click START, open CONTROL PANEL. Select REGIONAL AND LANGUAGE OPTIONS. Click on LANGUAGE tab, then DETAILS and SETTINGS tab. Click ADD and then select THAI from the drop down INPUT LANGUAGE box and THAI KEDMANEE from the drop down KEYBOARD LAYOUT box. Click OKAY, OKAY, APPLY, OKAY. Thai language should then be installed.
One possible problem is that files for complex scripts may not have been installed, If so, then on Windows XP, as an administrator:
Click START, open CONTROL PANEL. Select REGIONAL AND LANGUAGE OPTIONS. Click on LANGUAGE tab, tick 'Install files for complex script...' and click OK etc.
If this doesn't work, there are various web pages you can use, e.g. Thai Text Entry Version 1.2 It enables you to switch input methods, so it may be sensitive to browser differences. (I've just discovered that it gets a bit sick on Mozilla if you switch the encoding away from 'Unicode (UTF-8)', which is the encoding declared on the page. IE6 doesn't seem to be affected by such a switch.)
As to fonts, you just drag the font file onto the fonts directory, e.g. C:\WINDOWS\FONTS.
The consonants, subscript vowels, superscript tones and over marks in the vertical stack are typed in the order:
1) Consonant first.
2) Everything else in order from bottom to top, so tone marks come last.
Preposed vowels (เ แ ไ ใ โ) and postposed vowels (า ำ ะ) are typed independently, as though they were consonants. Note that น้ำ is typed in the order: consonant, tonemark, vowel. Do not type ำ as two symbols - if you do, most search software will not equate it to ำ as a single symbol.
On Thaivisa, remember to make Thai text 'large' (I use size 7) to make it legible.
On a Mac with OS/X:
Apple Menu -> System Preferences -> "International" Preference Pane -> Input Menu
Click on "Thai" check box
Click on "Show input menu in menu bar"
Quit System Preferences
The input menu will appear in the menu bar at the far right. It is represented by the flag of the country of the current input language. (US flag for US English, British flag for real English, Thai flag for....)
Click on the flag and select the language of choice.
If you need help with the keyboard, click on the flag and select "Show Keyboard Viewer". You can use the Keyboard Viewer for actual input or just as a map.
For the Mac Safari web browser you have to set the Text Encoding method to Unicode or Thai:
View -> Text Encoding -> Unicode
or
View -> Text Encoding -> Thai
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to Richard W for the WinXP instructions and mgnewman for the Mac/OSX instructions. As more information is found, these instructions will be updated.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't forget also that when typing, the tone symbols are to be applied AFTER typing the vowels, EXCEPT for in the case of the ำ .In this case, you need to type the tone symbol first.THIS HAD ME STUMPED FOR A WHILE.I must admit i didn't know anybody else could type in thai on a keyboard.Arrogant of me i suppose.I have never met another person who could write fluent Thai, so i am very pleased to find this section.Right now i dont have a Thai keyboard, so have learned to type blind on a german keyboard.Not as hard as it might seem actually.regards, spencer
Posted 2005-05-23 22:03:18
mgnewman, on 2005-03-27 21:14:01, said: RDN, on 2005-03-27 19:29:45, said:
I used a Mac program called Graphic Converter.
I cut the image from here:
I then edited the image to make three different head sizes and then combined the images into one animated GIF.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
you spelled throat wrong...you must use kor kwaay not khor khai..also no tone symbol (mai toe). the word you wrote means "Condition, as in rules on the condition that...or as in conditions of use."Sorry if this is unwanted info..maybe you just forgot, as i sometimes do also...Apart from that i like your creation.I would use thai text to explain the correct spelling, but am in a shop in switzerland right now, and they dont have thai language installed.
Posted 2005-05-23 22:09:33
mgnewman, on 2005-03-25 14:32:05, said: RDN, on 2005-03-25 17:00:42, said: I don't know what the differences are between the three Thai encoding methods I have available. If you want me to try some other tests, I can do it (but it's a bit time consuming  ).
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for taking the time to do what you did and thanks for your offer. I think you've consumed enough of your time.
Strange thing is, the only place we have trouble is with this forum. As I mentioned, every where else we use Thai script it seems to work OK (with the exception of some web-based e-mail).
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When you install thai on your pc, there are two alternatives for the keyboard too..kedmanee and another one i cant remember..maybe this has something to do with it..i know it affects where the letters are on the keyboard..but i am not very much of a programmer, so dont know about the unicode problem too much.I also need to solve this problem as i will be putting a section of my website into thai language too, which seems to be presenting a problem for me.
Posted 2005-05-23 22:24:56
Jockstar, on 2005-03-25 19:00:09, said: Ok. Let me try what i said to you before. I dont know Thai. So what ver i print will probably not make sense. But its just a test, Ok.
English
Hello!
Thai
หฟไฟกำำ าพีย
I think thats worked. this was done by just clicking on the EN on the bar at the bottom and changing to Thai.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}> hof fai gam aa fiy to you too! just joking, that's what you wrote approximately. You seem to know as little as i do aboute xhtml, php, etc, as all that you proved is that your computer has the right unicode settings for thaivisa.com
Posted 2005-05-23 23:25:50
spencerdharmagrafix, on 2005-05-23 15:03:18, said: you spelled throat wrong...you must use kor kwaay not khor khai..also no tone symbol (mai toe). the word you wrote means "Condition, as in rules on the condition that...or as in conditions of use." <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi spencer,
In this instance I believe the wrod to which you're referring means "joint". Hence ปวดข้อ - aching joints.
Cheers,
Scouse.
Posted 2006-02-16 05:17:22
 Richard W, on 2005-03-26 03:00:15, said:
RDN, on 2005-03-25 18:23:57, said: Thanks for those details, Richard. I'm having a bit of trouble with Firefox's encoding - I can't seem to make it stay with Thai ISO 8859-11. It kept changing back to Western 5889-1 (I think that was the one) so I've been a bit drastic and removed English from Tools / Options / General / Languages and also I have set Tools / View / Encoding / Auto Detect to "OFF".
The pages from this site are explicitly marked as being in the iso-8859-1 encoding! No 'auto-detection' is required!
Quote If you use Firefox and don't have this problem, can you say what settings you have for languages, encoding, etc?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One reason I've had no problems may be that I am using Windows XP. I have upgraded to Service Pack 2 (and am none to pleased to discover that IE now regards a lot of javascript as unsafe.)
Windows XP Settings:
Regional options: English (United Kingdom)
Location: United Kingdom
Language Settings:
Default: English (United-Kingdom) - United States - International
Other language/keyboard options set up:
English (United States) - US keyboard
Thai - Thai Kedmanee (non-ShiftLock)
Catalan - KhmerOS - Khmer Unicode Keyboard
Switch between input languages: Left Alt + Shift
Advanced Text Services: Neither extended nor switched off.
Something makes Notepad think that the ANSI encoding includes TIS-620!
Firefox 1.0 settings
Tools/Options/General/Languages/Languages: Empty
Tools/Options/General/Languages/Default character encoding: ISO-8859-1 (Western)
View/Character encoding - no special setting - I usually just let it drift, so it's currently showing ISO-8859-1. When I was viewing Yahoo groups pages, I set it to UTF-8, and it stayed there.
Which version of Firefox are you using?
I have had form problems - see Thai-Language Firefox Issues, and I'm not sure how they are consistent with the behaviour seen on ThaiVisa.com. The only problem I've had here iwth Firefox has been with fonts for Thai, which is a relatively minor issue. As a solution, I seem to have made Tahoma the default font for nearly everything!
I followed the advice of JOCKSTER and as of yet have had no problems! . I was wondering though what is the difference between thai kedmanee & thai kedmanee (non shiftlock)
Also which font have people found to suit the thai alphabet best?
Posted 2006-02-17 02:51:23
สวัสดีครับ
Posted 2007-03-08 18:44:07
dont know if it has worked
Posted 2007-03-13 01:37:39
Using Mac OSX and having trouble.....types Thai in my MACBOOK easily but wll not post in Thaivisa properly......
I have just changed to unicode and am going to try here:
จà¸à¹ˆà¸«à¸™
Now to add reply and have a look......and it seems to have worked!! Thankyou!
Well it DID work and was in Thai and now has changed to the above "a" language!!
(BTW was there a keyboard shortcut in MAc OSX to change language?)
Edited by reasonstobecheerful, 2007-03-13 01:44:51.
Posted 2007-07-28 11:31:40
I just installed firefox on my mac and just want to check if I can now type Thai on this site
หาทางแก่ไข
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