Posted 2009-07-02 19:00:18
 david96, on 2009-07-02 15:41:37, said:
Here is the website of VFS GLOBAL, the UK visa application centre in Bangkok.
http://www.vfs-uk-th.com/
Read it carefully and note the information and warnings given to applicants.
Note that you can make an appointment to visit.
I think most people who can read English will have seen the information on the VFS website, but in reality the only people who can go into the VFS center are not English and their ability to read it in many/most cases
is very restricted so the warnings aren't much help to them. If the British Embassy/VFS GLOBAL really wanted to be helpful they would repeat the warning on the web site in Thai as it's (99%) Thai people they'll be
dealing with, but that's probably too simple a solution.
Then most people who visit the VFS center are new to the system so don't know what to expect (UK citizens included) so when they're waylaid by somebody outside who 'suggests' they're from the VFS center and offer to help people probably think they've found a good samaritan. Then, if they're not waylaid, when people get up to the first floor the sign is that bad that it's easy to just walk straight ahead into the visa world office instead of turning right into the VFS center. An easy solution would be to firstly put a large, clear sign above the entrance pointing to the VFS door then move the man issuing tickets and the ticket machine to just in front of the entrance, into the waiting area. Put a clear sign on the ticket machine and put the man in a VFS uniform (he's always just worn a white shirt and black/dark trousers when I've been there). He could then tell people where to go as he's issuing the tickets before they get near the visa world doors. It would mean moving the ticket machine just 4-5 feet, hardly a major difficulty. It wouldn't stop people being accosted outside but at least when they were led up to the first floor it would be obvious to them that they were being led into the wrong office.
Edited by sumrit, 2009-07-02 19:03:14.
Posted 2009-07-02 20:01:23
Some good points, Sumrit.
However, the entire VAC website, including the warnings, is availabale in Thai; here.
My sister-in-law visited the VAC three times last December. She was on her own and was not accosted once by the 'wrong' people.
Maybe they only target Thai/Farang couples?
Posted 2009-07-05 20:26:22
7by7, on 2009-06-28 18:33:12, said: None of the scams, wrong advice , malpractice etc. mentioned in the above posts were carried out by the VAC or members of VFS staff. All of such practises are done by unscrupulous so called agents operating from Regents House. None of these offices are 'licensed by the British Goverment' or have any connection with any official government organisation.
As Mjo says, unfortunately there is no way either VFS or the British embassy have any way of evicting or otherwise stopping these people. They could move the VAC, but these sharks would only follow. Even in the old days, when queueing up outside the embassy we were accosted by such scum trying to persuade us to let them handle our application.
The possible exception is the wrong advice about divorcing at the Thai embassy in London. However, as the VAC is only responsible for collecting and checking visa applications I am not at all surprised that the VFS staff did not know about divorce law in the UK.
For some time, whether it's for security or overcrowding reasons, only applicants have been allowed into the VAC, with some obvious exceptions such as child applicants.
The UKVAC website a photo of their staff in uniform.
If the person talking to you is not wearing this uniform then they are not VAC staff. Tell them to Foxtrot Oscar.
Notice also the clear signage to tell you that you are in the VAC.
Having said all that, if one feel that any VAC staff are acting improperly then one should make a formal complaint to the embassy.
I did,i put in an offical complaint and guess what,nothing happened,for 3 years i fight this and even tryed to contact and have a meeting with Lord Malloch Brown but he never even had the manners to reply to any of my letters,my Mp was involved but as per normal hes only looking after hiself,the reply i got from the VCA staff about my divorce i was wrongly advised about was..sorry didnt have time to check your paperwork....i s still have the email from the Embassy telling me how to divorce my thai wife....i had an affirmation to marry which i payed for so why i paye for wrong advice,as for scams you havent a clue,there are VCA staff who will take a payment,i even offered to tell Lord malloch Brown there names but again he declined to speak to me,do you know how much money the Embassy make per year on visa applications???check it out
Posted 2009-07-06 13:04:54
apeks1971, on 2009-06-28 15:07:37, said: i tryed to take the VFS to the high court over scams that is going on in there,ive never felt so unwelcome in a so called British office,there is an office downstairs as you walk into regents house that are a visa service agncie offering fast track visas,what a con that is and when i reported it to the Home office they denied that its even there even though its licensed by the British Goverment.......
I am not surprised that you got nowhere with your complaint; the VAC office is on the 2nd floor. This office downstairs is nothing to do with either the VAC or the British government.
Posted 2009-07-08 20:30:14
wife and i went to vfs office for first time to hand in paperwork. As soon as we walked through main glass doors, straight away someone came up to us and tried to take my documents from me and said he would look after us. I stopped dead on the spot and looked at him and said "Who do you work for", he replied "Embassy", asked for his ID, did'nt have any. I said it ok we do it ourselves. so we started walking up stairs to the vfs office, he followed and as we got to the sitting area he ushered us into the office just to the left of the VFS entrance, sat down and he turned round and said "u want visa for uk" i knew straight way what he was upto, stood up looked at him with a look that could kill at a thousand paces and he just said "sorry you in wrong office please go outside". i;ve never felt like decking someone so much in my life. its stressfull enough doing a visa without these leeches trying to pull a fast one on you.
if your unfortunate enough to sit in the waiting area at VFS for a couple of hours, you can just watch these guys looking over the bannister at the front door, waiting on fallang and wife come through the doors, when that happens these guys are of flike shit from a slippery shovel downstairs to try and catch thier next victim.
they only stopped falang/thai couples, never thai on thier own.
Posted 2009-07-08 21:34:24
And of course the ECMs and Regional Director in their cloistered little world are fully cognisant of this disgraceful state of affairs but like all shiney arsed superannuated clerks these days they choose to do nothing about it because it has no bearing upon either their statistics or their performance. So what if Brits are being ripped off? It's not as if that is important and in any event the perception among the Embassy staff there is that most of the applicants are just ' slappers ' and therefore of little or no consequence.
Posted 2009-07-10 21:35:57
I have read the various posts here. I understand that the people accosting you and trying to rip you off may be nothing to do with the VFS but the British Embassy is inviting criticism if it allows it's contractors to bring it into disrepute which is the current case. VFS may or may not be innocent (I am sceptical on that point given our experience) but I believe they have a responsibilty to reduce the risk of people visiting their offices being misrouted by these touts. I am sure there are steps that can be taken to make people aware that they are being accosted by unofficial staff if they really wanted to. Just saying it's not them so they are innocent is not good enough in my book.
Posted 2009-07-10 23:31:53
slipperx, on 2009-07-10 21:35:57, said: VFS may or may not be innocent (I am sceptical on that point given our experience)
VFS are a large, reputable company handling visa applications for the UK, USA, Australia and many other countries, not just in Thailand but worldwide. Do you really think that would put all that at risk just to screw a few thousand baht out of people?
OK, maybe some of the VAC staff are doing so; in which case you must complain about them to VFS and the embassy. If VFS staff are guilty of this, just moaning about it on an internet forum wont achieve anything.
Quote I am sure there are steps that can be taken to make people aware that they are being accosted by unofficial staff if they really wanted to. Just saying it's not them so they are innocent is not good enough in my book.
A said before, both VFS and the embassy have clear warnings on their websites. VFS staff are in uniform with ID badges.
I ask you, and those others who complain of the embassy and VFS not acting, what steps do you think they should and can take?
Posted 2009-07-10 23:50:19
theoldgit, on 2009-07-10 17:28:31, said: I am certainly no expert in this field, but how on earth did you manage to divorce your wife twice?
It's difficult to decipher his posts, but if I have done so correctly it appears that he asked someone with no knowledge of UK divorce law if he could divorce at the Thai embassy in London, and was told yes.
Of course, the only place you can divorce in the UK is the UK courts, so the divorce at the Thai embassy was not recognised in the UK, although it was in Thailand. So he had to divorce her again.
What I don't understand is why he asked someone in an office in Thailand, be it VFS or not, about how to divorce in the UK. If he was in Thailand, why did he and his ex not trot along to an Ampur and divorce there? Simpler, cheaper and such a divorce is recognised in the UK. Why did they return to the UK and divorce at the Thai embassy?
Very strange.
Posted 2009-07-11 01:23:21
7by7, on 2009-07-11 00:50:19, said: theoldgit, on 2009-07-10 17:28:31, said: I am certainly no expert in this field, but how on earth did you manage to divorce your wife twice?
It's difficult to decipher his posts, but if I have done so correctly it appears that he asked someone with no knowledge of UK divorce law if he could divorce at the Thai embassy in London, and was told yes.
Of course, the only place you can divorce in the UK is the UK courts, so the divorce at the Thai embassy was not recognised in the UK, although it was in Thailand. So he had to divorce her again.
What I don't understand is why he asked someone in an office in Thailand, be it VFS or not, about how to divorce in the UK. If he was in Thailand, why did he and his ex not trot along to an Ampur and divorce there? Simpler, cheaper and such a divorce is recognised in the UK. Why did they return to the UK and divorce at the Thai embassy?
Very strange.
Hi
I was in the UK at the time i wanted to divorce my x wife,i contacted a UK solicitor and he advised to to contact the British Embassy in Bangkok for there advice as they do have immigration staff as i was married in a register office in Bangkok and he wasnt sure,the Embassy emailed me with the advice about the divorce which was ,1st i could go back to Thailand like you stated or i could go to the Thai Embassy in London as i was married under Thai law in there country,i did tell them that we both reside in the UK,iam not a lawyer or law trained so i took there advice but unfortunatley it was wrong,when i tried to get a visa for my new wife then the problem with the divorce came to light and thats when my problems started
Posted 2009-07-11 01:37:30
tell you now its a nightmare,a wall goes up and you got no chance of getting through,iam not the only one whos had these problems,as for divorcing my wife twice,i was originally emailed and told by the British Embassy as i was married in Thailand i could either go back there to divorce or go to the Thai Embassy in London,as we both lived in UK i chose the latter,got my papers and thought that was it,1 year later i get re married like a fool and go for a visa only to be told my divorce is not UK legally bound so i had to divorce her again under UK law in the UK,as for being insulting ,i dont mind anyone commenting on my post but not in that way,he must be a Lord Malloch Brown fan thats all i can say
Posted 2009-07-11 18:04:21
I guess it all depends on what question you asked the solicitor, but s/he must have known that the only place you can divorce in the UK is through the courts, whether you married in the UK or not is irrelevent.
Whether staff at an embassy need to know this is a moot point. Visa section staff should, so they can judge whether a marriage is valid in the UK or not, but I imagine that an enquiriy such as yours would not go to the visa section.
I reckon the blame for this lies 30% with the embassy and 70% with your solicitor.
Posted 2009-07-11 23:04:04
Abusive off topic posts and their responses have been deleted. There is no need to attack other members in this way. Lets try to keep this civil.
Unproven allegations and their responses have been removed. Thai Visa is not the appropriate place to post possibly defamatory and libellous comments. If you have proof then I suggest you go to the police, but do not post unfounded allegations here again, thanks.
Posted 2009-07-12 01:01:20
7by7, on 2009-07-11 19:04:21, said: I guess it all depends on what question you asked the solicitor, but s/he must have known that the only place you can divorce in the UK is through the courts, whether you married in the UK or not is irrelevent.
Whether staff at an embassy need to know this is a moot point. Visa section staff should, so they can judge whether a marriage is valid in the UK or not, but I imagine that an enquiriy such as yours would not go to the visa section.
I reckon the blame for this lies 30% with the embassy and 70% with your solicitor.
Family act 1986 or 1989 not sure of years states that you can only divorce in country you reside in,i didnt know anything about this thats why i contacted the British Embassy as they do have 4 immigration law trained staff at each Embassy,my solicitor wasnt sure so thats why he told me to contact the British Embassy in country i was married,problem was it got to the interview stage of the visa application before this was picked up,once you paye the £500 fee theres no refunds no matter what the reason is so really i was married to 2 women which is bigamy,the Embassy checked my divorce i had got from the Thai Embassy in the UK and gave me my affirmation saying i was free to marry,its a complicated subject,i know now the Embassy wont check divorces any more as a result of what happened,the Home Office did an investigation why my wifes visa got to the interview stage and wasnt picked up earlier but as i pointed out it took 3 years and endless letters to MP,S and Lord Malloch Brown and they admitted they were at fault but i got a letter just saying,,very sorry...and wouldnt refund my legal fees as i had to divorce my 1st wife again in a UK court of law
Posted 2009-07-12 15:54:14
apeks1971, on 2009-07-12 02:01:20, said: Family act 1986 or 1989 not sure of years states that you can only divorce in country you reside in
I am fairly certain that, like a marriage, if a divorce is legal in the country where it took place then it is also legal in the UK. I know of several British/Thai couples resident in the UK who married in Thailand and subsequently have divorced in Thailand and had their divorce recognised in the UK.
I'm not a lawyer, and stand to be corrected on this point by someone who is.
The problems you had came down to the fact that you divorced at the Thai embassy in London. Whilst this is recognised as legal in Thailand it is not in the UK. As you found out, the only place one can divorce in the UK is through the courts.
Perhaps you should have been advised of this when you completed the AFM at the embassy for your second marriage. But remember, all that says is that you are free to marry in Thailand; which you were. That this second marriage would not be recognised in the UK is irrelevant for the purpose; although the embassy staff should, I think, have warned you of this.
BTW, a divorced person completing an AFM at the British embassy still has to produce their divorce papers. This is a requirement of Thai law.
I still cannot understand why your solicitor seemed so ignorant of UK divorce law. If s/he had advised you correctly in the first place then you would not have had any of your subsequent problems. If any competent solicitor was unsure about a point they would find out; not pass the buck to someone else!
Posted 2009-07-12 17:16:10
7by7, on 2009-07-12 15:54:14, said: apeks1971, on 2009-07-12 02:01:20, said: Family act 1986 or 1989 not sure of years states that you can only divorce in country you reside in
I am fairly certain that, like a marriage, if a divorce is legal in the country where it took place then it is also legal in the UK. I know of several British/Thai couples resident in the UK who married in Thailand and subsequently have divorced in Thailand and had their divorce recognised in the UK.
I'm not a lawyer, and stand to be corrected on this point by someone who is.
The problems you had came down to the fact that you divorced at the Thai embassy in London. Whilst this is recognised as legal in Thailand it is not in the UK. As you found out, the only place one can divorce in the UK is through the courts.
Perhaps you should have been advised of this when you completed the AFM at the embassy for your second marriage. But remember, all that says is that you are free to marry in Thailand; which you were. That this second marriage would not be recognised in the UK is irrelevant for the purpose; although the embassy staff should, I think, have warned you of this.
BTW, a divorced person completing an AFM at the British embassy still has to produce their divorce papers. This is a requirement of Thai law.
I still cannot understand why your solicitor seemed so ignorant of UK divorce law. If s/he had advised you correctly in the first place then you would not have had any of your subsequent problems. If any competent solicitor was unsure about a point they would find out; not pass the buck to someone else!
the Embassy took my £500 fee and it got through to the interview where it was picked up,it should had never gotten that far,your right my second marriage was not reconised under UK law,the fact the Embassy didnt pick this up lead me to file a complaint,the affirmation i was given was unsigned too but was stamped by the Embassy,if it was signed they would had had to give my wife her visa and the person who signed it would had been liable,when i spoke to the interviewer whos name i cant publish as it will be deleted said to me she didnt have time to look at my papers??i know the procedure in the way visas are dealt with which i thought was a poor excuse,i wanted to take it too court but was advised not too as you cant take one person to court id have to take the Embassy to court,i went to the High court but the Embassy put a block on it so it didnt get into court,good old Lord Goldsmith if i carried it on it would result in legal fees of £20,000+ and id never get legal aid for it,the solicitor i saw wasnt an immigration specialist so his view was to contact the Embassy as they would advise me correctly what to do?the way it was dealt with in the UK angered me,i was lead up the garden path and just ignored,everytime i wrote a letter they answered with sumthing i never even asked???all i got then was write again,its a stalling process and hoping you just give up,after 3 years of battling i spoke to a MP and he advised to leave it as youll never beat them,your one man against a goverment office so now i have left it alone but il never forget the way it was handled by the Embassy
Posted 2009-07-12 20:40:07
katana, on 2009-06-28 14:20:50, said: I guess it would be too much to have a sign on the genuine VFS office warning about the bogus outfit next door or to have a genuine VFS staff member waiting outside to usher people into the correct building?
Last September I was outside the VAC waiting for my lady who was applying for a UK visitors visa who should arrive but non other than the honarary british consul or whatever he is called. I overheard him saying that the sign for the entrance to the VAC has to made more clear because he has he had a number of complaints from people that have gone into to the wrong office by "mistake".
So therefore I am suprised to read this post and it would seem that things are just the same has they were before when I was there last year.
Posted 2009-07-13 00:02:07
7by7, on 2009-06-28 17:33:12, said: None of the scams, wrong advice , malpractice etc. mentioned in the above posts were carried out by the VAC or members of VFS staff. All of such practises are done by unscrupulous so called agents operating from Regents House. None of these offices are 'licensed by the British Goverment' or have any connection with any official government organisation.
As Mjo says, unfortunately there is no way either VFS or the British embassy have any way of evicting or otherwise stopping these people. They could move the VAC, but these sharks would only follow. Even in the old days, when queueing up outside the embassy we were accosted by such scum trying to persuade us to let them handle our application.
The possible exception is the wrong advice about divorcing at the Thai embassy in London. However, as the VAC is only responsible for collecting and checking visa applications I am not at all surprised that the VFS staff did not know about divorce law in the UK.
For some time, whether it's for security or overcrowding reasons, only applicants have been allowed into the VAC, with some obvious exceptions such as child applicants.
The UKVAC website a photo of their staff in uniform.
If the person talking to you is not wearing this uniform then they are not VAC staff. Tell them to Foxtrot Oscar.
Notice also the clear signage to tell you that you are in the VAC.
Having said all that, if one feel that any VAC staff are acting improperly then one should make a formal complaint to the embassy.
If you guys took the time to actually have a look at the VFS sites or at pictures like the one posted above you would'nt be getting yourselves into such a pickle.
It really isnt that difficult.
Posted 2009-07-13 01:17:01
apeks1971, on 2009-07-12 18:16:10, said: the solicitor i saw wasnt an immigration specialist so his view was to contact the Embassy
You didn't ask him an immigration question (did you?), you asked him a divorce one. He didn't need to be an immigration specialist in order to advice you about your divorce; he merely needed to know about divorce law in the UK. Even if all he has done since qualifying is conveyancing, he still should have know that the proper person to refer you to was a family lawyer in the UK.
The embassy made mistakes, yes; but all your problems stem from your solicitor's ineptitude. Maybe you should be seeking recompense from him. See Legal Complaints Service.
Posted 2009-07-14 01:27:15
7by7, on 2009-07-13 01:17:01, said: apeks1971, on 2009-07-12 18:16:10, said: the solicitor i saw wasnt an immigration specialist so his view was to contact the Embassy
You didn't ask him an immigration question (did you?), you asked him a divorce one. He didn't need to be an immigration specialist in order to advice you about your divorce; he merely needed to know about divorce law in the UK. Even if all he has done since qualifying is conveyancing, he still should have know that the proper person to refer you to was a family lawyer in the UK.
The embassy made mistakes, yes; but all your problems stem from your solicitor's ineptitude. Maybe you should be seeking recompense from him. See Legal Complaints Service.
question i asked was about a divorce to a foreign national that i married in foreign country,i was surprised he didnt know but was thankful he lead to what i thought was good sound advice,idf the Embassy dont know then who knows?i still blame the Embassy 90% because they are legally trained and why didnt they pick up the divorce i recieved from the Thai Embassy,the British Consulate have immigration officers that are supposed to go through our paperwork and if its all ok then your interview is the last thing but for sum reason they didnt with mine,proberly too busy drinking and going to strip shows in Soi Cowboy and was hungover?il forward you an email from the Embassy saying they refuse to answer any of my emails and they will only reply to my MP??whats all that about??i spoke to UK visas and the reply i got when i asked questions was...no comment...ha ha ha..thats not a good way to run a so called service,i did in the end get a immigration lawyer but even he said the advice i recieved from the Embassy was totaly wrong and they certainly covered up there tracks by saying the man who sent the email and advice dosent work there anymore,i certainly learnt a lesson there
Posted 2009-07-14 23:06:12
I still feel that your solicitor should bear the brunt of the blame; any solicitor should know that a couple who married abroad can divorce in the UK, subject to some simple residency requirements which you obviously met.
However, you obviously feel differently, so let's leave it there?
Posted 2009-08-01 20:46:27
7by7, on 2009-07-11 00:31:53, said: slipperx, on 2009-07-10 21:35:57, said: VFS may or may not be innocent (I am sceptical on that point given our experience)
VFS are a large, reputable company handling visa applications for the UK, USA, Australia and many other countries, not just in Thailand but worldwide. Do you really think that would put all that at risk just to screw a few thousand baht out of people?
OK, maybe some of the VAC staff are doing so; in which case you must complain about them to VFS and the embassy. If VFS staff are guilty of this, just moaning about it on an internet forum wont achieve anything.
Quote I am sure there are steps that can be taken to make people aware that they are being accosted by unofficial staff if they really wanted to. Just saying it's not them so they are innocent is not good enough in my book.
A said before, both VFS and the embassy have clear warnings on their websites. VFS staff are in uniform with ID badges.
I ask you, and those others who complain of the embassy and VFS not acting, what steps do you think they should and can take?
Well for a start 7by7 where people are being accosted by touts hanging around outside their office they could at least have some uniformed staff around, clearly ID'd to lessen the chance of being misled. They get enough out of the visa fees to employ a few extra people where the touts are plying their trade. I saw no uniformed VFS staff either in the lkobby or the waiting area. They could also increase signage and make it far clearer. It is not rocket science and can be tackled reasonably inexpensively. I believe they have a duty to do that. Before there was not the problem as the applications were all handled inside the embassy but now it is all done outside I suppose as some form of cost cutting measure or something.
Posted 2009-08-01 20:52:59
Visa World strikes again.
I was in a restaurant when i over heard a conversation regarding UK/Vac. I got talking to an English guy he came up in the lift at Regent house and was greeted by the chubby girl who works for this company. Then he followed her into the office with his completed file paid her 20,000 baht plus the visa fee until i had spoken to him he was not aware he had been scammed !
The guy was in his mid sixties and believed he was dealing with UK/Vac.
Posted 2009-08-01 21:47:47
Whilst I feel sympathy with anyone scammed by any con merchant, the advice is quite simple.
If they are not in uniform, they are not VAC staff.
Issues of signage within the building have already been discussed.
Posted 2009-08-01 22:12:14
ThaiVisaExpress, on 2009-08-01 20:52:59, said: I was in a restaurant when i over heard a conversation regarding UK/Vac. I got talking to an English guy he came up in the lift at Regent house and was greeted by the chubby girl who works for this company. Then he followed her into the office with his completed file paid her 20,000 baht plus the visa fee until i had spoken to him he was not aware he had been scammed !
I don't doubt what you say for a minute but I find it quite incredible that the chap you describe, who I would have thought would have researched the requirements, apparently meekly follows someone into a room and hands over an extra 20,000 Baht, not an insignificant sum of money.
What was his response when you told him, I presume you went back to the office with him.
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