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[IanForbes]

Thanks for my morning laugh, gonzo.    The strange expression on my face and odd body position is because of the snakes strength. It was trying to straighten and pull free, and it was pulling my head to one side. I really woudn't want to piss one off in the wild. I'm fairly comfortable with dangerous wild creatures but a lot has to do with reading their body language and not threatening them. Twice I'm come close to running over cobras with my motorcycle and once I almost hit a large python with my bike.

[Datsun240Z]

I love snake, when....

































They are on my plate.

[Crow Boy]

sundaypsychos, on 2009-07-03 22:32:28, said:

stevie h, if the wildlife documentaries i watch are to be believed, i dont think you are screwed. although a pretty intimidating looking beast its venom is not as potent as that of smaller cobras or kraits for example.

The venom is very toxic and a combination of three types of poison, neuro, hemo and nectotoxins. However the king cobra does not always bit it victims. The head of the snake is coverned in a thick skull cap of scales and when the snake strikes it will often use its head as a battering ram. It is a very powerful blow and the purpose is to protect the delicate fangs. After the prey is battered the snake can then sink the fangs with care and poison the animal. Remember the main purpose of the poison is to prepare it for digestion. Snakes can and frequently do eat their prey while still alive albeit subdued.

sundaypsychos, on 2009-07-03 22:32:28, said:

if it was me i would try to get the identification, tourniquet the bitten limb, and then head as quickly as possible to a hospital. in fact i dont think an identification is 100% necessary as they now have a anti-venom cocktail that encompasses most of the dangerous species of snakes venom.

Like most things first aid treatment depends on what is at hand. Using a tournequet works but causes significant damage to the limb by stopping the blood flow. Do NOT wash the wound or suck out the poison. If possible place a sterile pad directly over the bite wound, make the spot with a marker pen, then wrap a wide constrictive bandage around the wound then UP the entire limb as  far as it will go, Then using more bandages wind it back down to the very end of the limb and back up. Two to three crepe bandages are good. Split the limb and avoid moving. Get to hospital asap and report a snake bite. The doctors will do a test wipe at the suspected bite site and check for which types of poisons are present and prescribe a cocktail of antivenene.

The poison travels via the lymph system and the important part is to slow it down as much as possible. The victim must be kept calm and carried out.

sundaypsychos, on 2009-07-03 22:32:28, said:

and i would definitley not try and kill the snake as it was only protecting itself in its own environment. in my living room might be a different story though!

Snakes can and will kill if frightened or threatened so best is to avoid them. In Thailand they are a common experience. If you try to kill it for identification the chances are you will be bitten and that bite will probably be the lethal one.

CB

[Loaded]

Which hospitals in Chiang Mai are likely to have anti venom?

I'm just off for my Saturday morning bike ride at Huay Tung Tao and this thread has f###### scared the life out of me. I'm expecting a king cobra to head-but me before biting me this morning.

Edited by Loaded, 2009-07-04 07:27:35.

[Crow Boy]

Loaded, on 2009-07-04 08:26:45, said:

Which hospitals in Chiang Mai are likely to have anti venom?

All the major hospitals in CM have access to the antivenon

It is manufactured in Bangkok by the Red Cross. The are the second oldest facility in the world - I think the one in Brazil was the first. They use live horses to produce the antivenom. The handlers at the Red Cross milk the snakes and then inject the horse with it. Over many bites and with increased dose the horse develop an immunity to the poison and the antibodies are taken out and used to produce antivenene.

They use different groups of horses for different types of snakes and produce different types of antivenene. One of the problems with asiatic snakes including the cobra family is that the snakes have multiple poisons. All poisonous snakes produce venom which is a protein variant of saliva. The saliva has evolved into being poisonous to other animals including other snakes. The poison is of three different types:

Hemotoxin - breaks down the blood so that it effectively leaks out of the vessels and drowns the animal with fluid into the lungs

Neurotoxin - attacks the central nervous system which controls the circulatory and respiratory system. The victim dies of heart/lung failure

Necrotoxin - this attacks the tissue around the bite site and in the lymphatic system. It is primarily an aid to digestion.

Asiatic snakes produce two or all three types of the poisons making them very effective. The individual snakes also produce different ratios of the poisons depending on where they come from and the type of prey they target.

Bottom line is that if a snake bites you then it is EXREMELY important that you do NOT wash away the poison from the bite site so that the pathologist can determine what type of snake venom, the types of poison protein, and the ratio of the three types in that bite. A very important part is also to determine IF the snake actually bit you at all. Injecting antivenine into a casualty who has not been bitten is really bad.

Back to the question - if bitten I would get the first aid right and then get someone to take me by car as quickly as possible to Rama IV or similar. If the first aid is done correctly you have about three to four hours. If done incorrectly or not at all you probably won't have enough time to write out you will.

Loaded, on 2009-07-04 08:26:45, said:

I'm just off for my Saturday morning bike ride at Huay Tung Tao and this thread has f###### scared the life out of me. I'm expecting a king cobra to head-but me before biting me this morning.

You are much more at risk of being bitten by a soi dog than a snake in Thailand and the dogs often carry nasty diseases including rabies.

This photo is of the resident python I have living about five feet above my head.

 Picture_006.jpg   75.62K   10 downloads


CB

[sundaypsychos]

excellent advice and research crow boy.

however for many of the moutain bikers and motorcyclists using doi sutthep, we are often on singletrack areas that a car could not access. are on our own( well i am anyway), and carry very little provisions with us apart from tyre patch up kits and water, so having that many bandages is unlikely.

say we had just one t-shirt and a couple of socks to use what would you reccommend?
and if we were on our own, would it be better to wait for help to come and arrive or to try and ride out to main roads having already been bitten?



and how do you know if you were dry bitten or not? ( i guess dying in a few hours would suggest you had been bitten!)
cheers.
p.s to anyone who this may have spooked it should be said that the chances of seeing one let alone being bitten by one are very rare indeed. me = 5 years riding, twice a week, 1 sighting. its not a high chance.