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Very flimsy charges as well. Somebody must be upset that the Reds are getting their voice heard on international media. The next step up in this game of brinkmanship would perhaps be the arrest and holding on remand of a Thai national working for an international news organisation. This use of the law to pressure the media is creepy and may well backfire.
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Lese Majeste Complaint Filed Against The Foreign Correspondents Club Of Thailandcomplaint also includes BBC reporter Jonathon Head
Started by sriracha john, 2009-07-01 20:24
#52
Star Member Posted 2009-07-02 12:18:49
No you got it wrong....again.Jakrapob's appearance at the FCCT was long before the events of April this year. By that logic earlier sermons against the US by Osama, for example, are ok to sell on DVDs because that was before he actually ordered flying planes into WTC (even if allegedly). Quote Certainly he made some rather wild comments earlier this year but they were just that, comments. He said the red movement would resort to armed guerilla struggle. You try "comments" like that against any western country and see how long before all law enforcement agencies will be after your sorry ass. #53
Atomic Member Posted 2009-07-02 12:34:02
I haven't seen it posted if Jakrapod himself has been charged with lese majeste for the contents of this speech? If not, how could facilitating the further disemination of the speech be considered lese majeste?
The issue of the lese majeste laws have been discussed ad-nasuem here and in the press. The main problem being the unusual practice (at least to my knowledge) that private persons are allowed to file criminal complaints under the Thai legal system. That, and the fact that many matters that would be civil in nature are criminal offenses in Thailand. The proposal awhile back to not allow private complaints (at least in lese majeste cases) but to vest investigation and charging powers in such cases to an independent office in the Thai Justice Ministry would seem to be the way to go. #54
Senior Member Posted 2009-07-02 12:39:53
I haven't seen it posted if Jakrapod himself has been charged with lese majeste for the contents of this speech? If not, how could facilitating the further disemination of the speech be considered lese majeste? The issue of the lese majeste laws have been discussed ad-nasuem here and in the press. The main problem being the unusual practice (at least to my knowledge) that private persons are allowed to file criminal complaints under the Thai legal system. That, and the fact that many matters that would be civil in nature are criminal offenses in Thailand. The proposal awhile back to not allow private complaints (at least in lese majeste cases) but to vest investigation and charging powers in such cases to an independent office in the Thai Justice Ministry would seem to be the way to go. Sorry, but attempting to change lese majeste law can be consider lese majeste by itself. TIT #55
Senior Member Posted 2009-07-02 12:53:33
I haven't seen it posted if Jakrapod himself has been charged with lese majeste for the contents of this speech? #56
Star Member Posted 2009-07-02 13:02:53
Of course he has been charged for that speech and subsequently forced out of office. What exactly pushed FCCT, a legal entity, to distribute copies of that speech is beyond me. Just how dumb you must be to get yourself drawn in a political struggle in a foreign country and caught selling what could be easily classifed as subversive propaganda after Jakrapob called for guerilla war?
The content of that speech has been all over Internet already, there's no urgency to dissimenate the "news" whatsoever. #57
Atomic Member Posted 2009-07-02 14:14:10
The proposal awhile back to not allow private complaints (at least in lese majeste cases) but to vest investigation and charging powers in such cases to an independent office in the Thai Justice Ministry would seem to be the way to go. Sorry, but attempting to change lese majeste law can be consider lese majeste by itself. TIT Some will argue that point but from my understanding, these laws were enacted during the dictatorship of Pibul Songkram, in the 1950s, for the same reason they are used now, to intimidate his political opponents. The laws were enacted by the Thai Parliament and could be repealed or changed by that same institution. #58
Senior Member Posted 2009-07-02 14:21:01
ALL MY FRIENDS IN THAILAND just in case you have not noticed--99%+ OF THAIS LOVED THEIR ROYAL MAJESTY THE KING AND QUEEN to the point of willing to give up one's life to protect the royal family. whatever you say or do in reference to this most worshiped institution, you need to pay the utmost respect. unlike the american or the british citizen who can say funny things about the monarch, verbally or in printed forms, such as funnies, cartoons etc. but the thais would not be so understanding nor forgiving to hear or see their most loved royal leaders being put into such position. thai statue prescribes severe punishment but the individual red blooded loyal thais would be even more punitive to the n-degree. like the wise one said long time ago, when you go to rome, just have fun and do not deviate too much from the romans.... cheers ........ Sure, in the old days. Nowsaday, perhaps not so? #59
Senior Member Posted 2009-07-02 14:24:12
Of course he has been charged for that speech and subsequently forced out of office. What exactly pushed FCCT, a legal entity, to distribute copies of that speech is beyond me. Just how dumb you must be to get yourself drawn in a political struggle in a foreign country and caught selling what could be easily classifed as subversive propaganda after Jakrapob called for guerilla war? The content of that speech has been all over Internet already, there's no urgency to dissimenate the "news" whatsoever. Have I missed something here:
#60
Senior Member Posted 2009-07-02 14:26:56
We allow the discussion of the case, but keep the monarchy out of the discussion. We are not going to discuss what His Majesty said or not. I hope that is clear  With the greatest of respect. If one is not allowed to quote from His majesty's own words, which is highly pertinent to the overall subject of Lese majeste in the Kingdom Of Thailand, then perhaps the topic should not be discussed at all. I do have a favourite from His Majesty's wisdom, which I try to live by. Forgive the spelling, but it is 'Por Piang' #61
Star Member Posted 2009-07-02 14:54:56 Quote Have I missed something here: When did the FCCT distribute the speech? Before Jakrapob was charged or after? If the FCCT distributed the speech before he was charged, did they do anything wrong? Did they stop any and all distribution after he was charged? Did they begin selling the DVDs only after Jakrapob called for guerilla war? Did anyone actually buy the DVD? What a strange twist of fate that would be, the only person to buy the DVD is the person behind the charges. Apparently DVDs were on sale AFTER Jakrapob was charged, they could still be on sale now. There was an explanation that they are available only to members, in reality it probably means whoever is inside the club. Personally, I would have withdrawn them after Jakrapob declared guerilla war on Thailand. They guy has completely discredited himself. I though he discredited himself even in that speech when he couldn't defend his theory after people pointed out that Thaksin's system was in no way better than the patronage itself and what he was proposing was not an improvement in any sense. I dont' understand foreign journos fascination with him, apart from "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" logic. #62
Star Member Posted 2009-07-02 14:59:14
No you got it wrong....again.Jakrapob's appearance at the FCCT was long before the events of April this year. By that logic earlier sermons against the US by Osama, for example, are ok to sell on DVDs because that was before he actually ordered flying planes into WTC (even if allegedly). Well, actually, AFAIK it *is* legal to sell Anti-US sermons in the US (if there's a buyer and there's no issue of copyright, etc.) because of this thing we have called freedom of speech... Although it has been hard-going lately, the US flag still isn't more important than what it stands for.... Sorry, bit off-topic, but thought I should point that out.... #63
Star Member Posted 2009-07-02 15:18:01
Can you give an example of a US mosque selling DVDs of Osama sermons or something similar?
Otherwise it's like "I think legal but I'm not sure". Actually, how about foreign, visiting clerics peddling Osama tapes? Edited by Plus, 2009-07-02 15:22:49. #64
Platinum Member Posted 2009-07-02 16:01:27
No you got it wrong....again.Jakrapob's appearance at the FCCT was long before the events of April this year. By that logic earlier sermons against the US by Osama, for example, are ok to sell on DVDs because that was before he actually ordered flying planes into WTC (even if allegedly). Well, actually, AFAIK it *is* legal to sell Anti-US sermons in the US (if there's a buyer and there's no issue of copyright, etc.) because of this thing we have called freedom of speech... Although it has been hard-going lately, the US flag still isn't more important than what it stands for.... Sorry, bit off-topic, but thought I should point that out.... Actually it's a very pertinent point and completely on topic.The nearest American equivalent of this ridiculous situation would have I thought been the seventeenth century witch trials at Salem when accusations were flung around by the immature or ignorant, and exploited by the cynical.Actually at least the witch trials represented a morality story of sorts with some interesting light cast on the human condition. #65
Platinum Member Posted 2009-07-02 16:05:47
Can you give an example of a US mosque selling DVDs of Osama sermons or something similar? Otherwise it's like "I think legal but I'm not sure". Actually, how about foreign, visiting clerics peddling Osama tapes? No but I can give you an example of someone who is by no means a fool but is so obsessed that he loses sight of the fact when his strong feelings lead him into spouting laughable tripe. #66
Observant member Posted 2009-07-02 16:54:22
We allow the discussion of the case, but keep the monarchy out of the discussion. We are not going to discuss what His Majesty said or not. I hope that is clear With the greatest of respect. If one is not allowed to quote from His majesty's own words, which is highly pertinent to the overall subject of Lese majeste in the Kingdom Of Thailand, then perhaps the topic should not be discussed at all. I do have a favourite from His Majesty's wisdom, which I try to live by. Forgive the spelling, but it is 'Por Piang' HRM is quoted daily around the country in print and on buildings. It is done precisely and respectfully of course. Including those in translation to other tounges. #67
Senior Member Posted 2009-07-02 17:19:00
Can you give an example of a US mosque selling DVDs of Osama sermons or something similar? Otherwise it's like "I think legal but I'm not sure". Actually, how about foreign, visiting clerics peddling Osama tapes? No but I can give you an example of someone who is by no means a fool but is so obsessed that he loses sight of the fact when his strong feelings lead him into spouting laughable tripe. And that is the most correct thing I have seen written on TV for a long time. Well said #68
Star Member Posted 2009-07-02 17:41:33
LM law, as was explained by Abhisit, is a legal tool to protect the monarchy from defamation and libel, a protection that is extended to every Thai citizen, but by some incredulous red logic must be denied to the King.
Defamation and libel are not about freedom of speech - if you offend someone, that person must have a right to protect his name. In case of the monarchy - the institution can't sue it's own subjects, so other people have to file the charges. Maybe there should be some vetting panel, but it doesn't seem to be a pressing matter for lawmakers in this country, representatives of Thai people apparently don't think it's important. As for abuse of LM for political purposes - isn't it what the hacks at FCCT tried to do themselves by writing dozens of articles on the issue? Now it looks like they even tried to cash in on LM content in Jakrapob's speech? I bet it wouldn't sell a single copy if not for the controversy, and even if FCCT doesn't have a monetary insentive to sell the DVD, they apparently feel ideological need to spread his ideas, and then create even more publicity when caught by making it into a big LM issue. Same pattern in almost all LM stories, like that Australian idiot who presented an outright lie as a matter of fact, just to gain publicity - who made it into a big political issue? FCCT journos and other assorted defenders of "freedom of speech". There was absolutely nothing political about it until they came along. Now it seems you can spout any kind of nonsense, if no one cares - throw a couple of LM statements in it to attract attention, and voila, you can claim that you are prosecuted by state for your "ideas". Who is abusing LM here? #69
Senior Member Posted 2009-07-02 17:49:52
Sounds like she might have just lost her job. Or lost face via anyone of the charged persons. Revenge is a woman scorned etc. The question is the leanings of the police general who took the case and proceeded... Likely this will be backfiring on those attempting this. It is no longer a simple national issue, but this makes it international. There are only so many international periodicals and TV channels that Thailand can ban for talking about facts, before wiser heads prevail... How peculiar. I read this 3 times and yet still found myself agreeing with you. I think I'll take 2 aspirins and have a quiet lie down. 
#70
Senior Member Posted 2009-07-02 17:50:25
Can you give an example of a US mosque selling DVDs of Osama sermons or something similar? Otherwise it's like "I think legal but I'm not sure". Actually, how about foreign, visiting clerics peddling Osama tapes? this is a poor comparison. o.b.l. has called for the reversal of american foreign policy rather than the end to a particular form of government. a more accurate comparison to this case would be the arrest of CNN staff because they decided to air transcripts or videos of o.b.l.'s speeches. i don't know about you, but i have seen that plenty of times. #71
Star Member Posted 2009-07-02 18:05:56
What have you seen? Arrests of CNN staff?
Does CNN sell a collection of Osama speeches on it's website, btw? Or better yet, does Al Jazeera sell Osama speeches in the US? And if you insist it's a better comparison - which FCCT member has been arrested? The point is - when it concerns national security, the West finds pleny of ways to go around "freedom of speech" kind of rights and restrict public access to "dangerous" information, like funerals of servicemen or Osama broadcasts, but when Thailand does the same - it has not right to protect its national security. When Thailand goes bankrupt, the West preaches about transparency and forces it to accept free market solutions. When the West goes bust, it's all socialism and govt bailouts. #72
Advanced Member Posted 2009-07-02 18:25:05
I just called a friend of mine, a regular at the FCCT; he said that the FCCT made and sold/distributed the vids of Jakhrapob' speech before he was charged with lese-majeste.
So, how the hel_l can FCCT be charged? Plus above should take notice instead of living in never-ever land. He probably hasn't a clue what Jakrapob said - if he had he wouldn't be writing these comments. Academics have been saying what Jakrapob said for donkeys years and never been charged with LM. It's just because Jakrapob was a friend of Thaksin's. The last time i checked the speech of the video on YouTube wasn't even blocked! Neither was Da Torpedo's really shocking speech! (unlike Jakrapob's) The yellow-shirted ASTV/PAD are helping to destry the country's highest institution, not protect. #73
Senior Member Posted 2009-07-02 18:32:47
These farang have some nerve to slander the King's good name. I hope all of these farang receive the full 15 year prison sentence for their actions here.
#74
Advanced Member Posted 2009-07-02 18:41:14
These farang have some nerve to slander the King's good name. I hope all of these farang receive the full 15 year prison sentence for their actions here. What a **** idiot, Jakraphob and Veera didn't say anything to slander the King at the FCCT - go watch the **** video on YouTube. #75
Senior Member Posted 2009-07-02 18:49:26
These farang have some nerve to slander the King's good name. I hope all of these farang receive the full 15 year prison sentence for their actions here. Please explain yourself further -
Please backup your rhetoric laden statements with some fact. Edited by jonclark, 2009-07-02 18:50:51. |
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