Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 Next » Please log in to reply 78 replies to this topic

[sbk]

Quote

Alcohol ban on religious holidays
By Suchat Sritama
Kwanchai Rungfapaisarn
The Nation
Published on July 1, 2009



The government was dealing another severe blow to the already-battered tourism and entertainment industry by suddenly banning booze during Buddhist holidays next week, business leaders complained yesterday.

"This is the same old issue - the government rising up to destroy tourism. This does not parallel its tourism policy of increasing the number of visitors coming into the country," said Thai Hotels Association (THA) president Prakit Chinamourphong.

Enforcement of the decree would hurt tourism venues, especially clubs and restaurants located in hotels, as well as general tourist attractions.

"How can tourists can enjoy their holiday in Thailand without drinking? Like Phuket or Pattaya, they're coming for beaches and fun. They like to have beers and some drinks on the beach. If we ask them not to do so, they won't be happy," Prakit said.

The government should have communicated the order well in advance to foreign tourists, so they could plan their activities and celebrations better while staying in the country.

"I think it's good for locals to stop drinking during that time, but tourists will be upset," Prakit said.

Rest of article here:

The Nation



How do you think this should be handled for tourists? Should it be banned for tourists as well? Should they be able to drink in their hotels and guesthouses?

Is one law for locals and another law for guests feasible?

I know on Koh Phangan, that many places have ignored this requirement and I wonder if it will now be more strictly enforced?

[Carib]

I think the statement made by Prakit saying ""How can tourists can enjoy their holiday in Thailand without drinking?" is a bit over the top. It would mean that without drinking one cannot enjoy things. Sounds strange to me.

To answer the question: If Thailand forbids to drink on these days on religious grounds, than that is a part of Thailand, so as a visitor you will have to accept that too.

Edited by Carib, 2009-07-03 07:17:12.

[bojo]

In Samui, restaurants still serve alcohol with a meal and some bars just flout the law, while out of the way bars, especially on the beach also ignore the ban. The alchol police patrol strictly Chaweng high street and woe betide anyone not influential enough who meets their wrath.
NO, I'd say it's almost impossible and inpracticle for dual interpretation of the law, one for tourists and one for Thai nationals, after all, who's a tourist at the end of the day!

I'm pretty sure that tourists can drink in their hotels and guesthouses, not sure whether it's legal,
Supposing they put padlocks on the mini bars!!
However my understanding of the law is that bars are asked to respect Buddha days only, it's still legal to sell alcohol and the only days that it's is completely illegal are nights before and election days.
regards Bojo

[BigSnake]

A no brainer, sure you can ban the sell of Alcohol on these days, but you cannot ban drinking, people just stockup and still get drunk, close all the bars, go go joints, breakout the private party, Nuff said   

[Harcourt]

Firstly, to clarify, is the ban on alcohol consumption, or sales? I daresay it is on the sale of alcohol, and whatever you do in your room or house, or even lying on the beach, is ok if you bought the booze the day before.

While empathising with the tourism trade and how it could damage their income, I have little sympathy for the tourists themselves. Come to my country, New Zealand (which relies heavily on tourism too) and you can't buy booze on December 25, Good Friday, or Easter Monday, unless you are a guest in the establishment selling it, and it's inhouse only. There is no "off lisence" on those religious days. Pubs are closed. Casinos are closed. TV stations can't advertise commercials.

Although not religious myself, I understand religious prohibitions that occur all around the world, whether continuous or reserved for particular days.


The travel agents should forewarn their customers, for sure, but I would not advocate one law for part of the population and another law for others, and I would not advocate any disrespect to the host nation's religious sensitivites by changing the law to suit a minority.

[webfact]

Personally I don't drink alcohol.
Reading threads where the Religion gets involved pressure for "laws or restrictions" to be implemented and succeed
gives me a shiver down the spine. Look to Iran or Afghanistan and you know what I mean.
The Ayatollahs have spoken! Today it is alcohol, tomorrow it will be interference in politics...
Its easy to use Religion as an excuse for certain actions...

[TEFLMike]

This is not new a new idea.


For the past two, maybe, three years, the sale of alcohol on religious holidays has been on the agenda.

It now appears as if the Government are getting to grips with it.

[Lopburi99]

webfact, on 2009-07-02 21:01:01, said:

Personally I don't drink alcohol.
Reading threads where the Religion gets involved pressure for "laws or restrictions" to be implemented and succeed
gives me a shiver down the spine. Look to Iran or Afghanistan and you know what I mean.
The Ayatollahs have spoken! Today it is alcohol, tomorrow it will be interference in politics...
Its easy to use Religion as an excuse for certain actions...

No kidding, look back on history!  Although I am moderately religious myself, I do not believe for others to be forced into compliance in accordance with one's views.  I believe that is flat out wrong.  I once had a business partner who insisted on us "Thanking the Lord" in prayer before we had lunch every day.  I resent it to this day.  He can pray if he wants - leave me out of it!

[jackr]

Two steps back, none forward, and third world come to mind. I would think they mean 'the sale of' as opposed to no drinking full stop. If the latter then that's not a good advertisement for Buddhism now is it. As usual, it's the actions of a few that ruin it for the masses, and whether one drinks or not is not the issue.

[mizzi39]

Glad I stumbled upon this post. I will make a trip to Big C after work. Thanks TV

[robblok]

webfact, on 2009-07-03 08:01:01, said:

Personally I don't drink alcohol.
Reading threads where the Religion gets involved pressure for "laws or restrictions" to be implemented and succeed
gives me a shiver down the spine. Look to Iran or Afghanistan and you know what I mean.
The Ayatollahs have spoken! Today it is alcohol, tomorrow it will be interference in politics...
Its easy to use Religion as an excuse for certain actions...

I agree whole heartetly. I don't drink and it wont affect me but it is scary. I always thought buddists to be good ppl who did not oppose their beliefs on others.

[Beacher]

The Thai government should be embarrassed by the laws it makes regarding drinking. The one forbidding sale of alcohol between 2-5 PM says to the rest of the world, "Our people are like irresponsible children who won't stay at work/school and do what they're supposed to do, so we have to make draconian laws to ensure that they won't shirk their responsibilities and get drunk instead."

This latest one screams out that the citizens of this country are not truly Buddhist, because if they were, they would follow the 5 precepts of Buddhism and not drink at all, let alone on religious holidays. But since religion here is only something superficial, we must make more draconian laws.

[Carib]

webfact, on 2009-07-03 08:01:01, said:

Personally I don't drink alcohol.
Reading threads where the Religion gets involved pressure for "laws or restrictions" to be implemented and succeed
gives me a shiver down the spine. Look to Iran or Afghanistan and you know what I mean.
The Ayatollahs have spoken! Today it is alcohol, tomorrow it will be interference in politics...
Its easy to use Religion as an excuse for certain actions...

So do the ayatollahs of the Christian churches where one is not even allowed to do anything on a Sunday, Sabbath come to mind too, the mormones have....,the whatever donot allow you to.....and so on and so on, why just focus on Islam??
Lots of religions have their own stupid rules and mantras.

[ukrules]

I don't think they should ban the sale of alcohol, that's ridiculous. They should allow people to make their own choice.

Religion shouldn't really be forced onto people by the Government.

When you consider the tourist situation it makes the decision even more bizarre.

I wonder where this decision came from, who's idea was it ? Do the religious leaders in Thailand have a lot of political muscle ?

[ukrules]

Beacher, on 2009-07-03 09:12:57, said:

The one forbidding sale of alcohol between 2-5 PM says to the rest of the world

They used to do this exact same thing in England a number of years ago, the bars would close for a few hours and then reopen later. Suddenly for some reason they changed it though, I have no idea why.

[webfact]

ukrules, on 2009-07-03 02:40:37, said:

Beacher, on 2009-07-03 09:12:57, said:

The one forbidding sale of alcohol between 2-5 PM says to the rest of the world

They used to do this exact same thing in England a number of years ago, the bars would close for a few hours and then reopen later. Suddenly for some reason they changed it though, I have no idea why.

but you could still buy booze in any Indian Liquor store, right?

[Jungian]

A lot of bars in the USA are still closed on Sunday and you can't buy alcohol in many states on Sunday, with the exception of South Dakota where you can buy all the beer you want just nothing hard... I think the law now is that food sales have to be equal or higher than alcohol sales and the bar can be opened (in most states). So, no it applies to everyone tourists are not exempt what would you do anyway to prove you are a tourist? I'm sure if you look closely you will find opened bars.

[jfchandler]

So what exact days are they talking about here.... Nice that the Nation article doesn't even bother to say...

[robblok]

Jungian, on 2009-07-03 09:48:29, said:

A lot of bars in the USA are still closed on Sunday and you can't buy alcohol in many states on Sunday, with the exception of South Dakota where you can buy all the beer you want just nothing hard... I think the law now is that food sales have to be equal or higher than alcohol sales and the bar can be opened (in most states). So, no it applies to everyone tourists are not exempt what would you do anyway to prove you are a tourist? I'm sure if you look closely you will find opened bars.

So because the good ol USA does it its a good thing ? Forcing religions dogma's onto others is wrong period.

[sbk]

jfchandler, on 2009-07-03 10:05:40, said:

So what exact days are they talking about here.... Nice that the Nation article doesn't even bother to say...

I didn't quote the entire article but anyone who lives in Thailand would be aware that it is all major Buddhist holidays, such as the upcoming Khao Phansa.

[alant]

well we can mutter all we want about if religion should do this or that but I have yet to see a member of the Thai government walking past my house in orange collecting food for the day early in the morning.  This is not religion it is "we are in power so you do it our way".  the logic of such a ban does not stand up to examination except to satisfy the temperance lobby.  it is not religion, it is not safety it is "because we can"
i for one am glad i no longer have any money tied up in businesses that depend upon tourists there are simply too many places that offer  a very good alternative to the LOS now

[webfact]

sbk, on 2009-07-03 04:35:45, said:

jfchandler, on 2009-07-03 10:05:40, said:

So what exact days are they talking about here.... Nice that the Nation article doesn't even bother to say...

I didn't quote the entire article but anyone who lives in Thailand would be aware that it is all major Buddhist holidays, such as the upcoming Khao Phansa.

in my almost 3 decades in this country I can't remember reading articles about alcohol consumption during Buddhist holidays of that magnitude.
what has changed?

[Harcourt]

robblok, on 2009-07-03 15:12:55, said:

Jungian, on 2009-07-03 09:48:29, said:

A lot of bars in the USA are still closed on Sunday and you can't buy alcohol in many states on Sunday, with the exception of South Dakota where you can buy all the beer you want just nothing hard... I think the law now is that food sales have to be equal or higher than alcohol sales and the bar can be opened (in most states). So, no it applies to everyone tourists are not exempt what would you do anyway to prove you are a tourist? I'm sure if you look closely you will find opened bars.

So because the good ol USA does it its a good thing ? Forcing religions dogma's onto others is wrong period.

Drive carefully, I don't want your kharma to run over my dogma.

I don't think he's saying anything like "If the USA does it, it's a good thing". Like me in my post which mentions New Zealand....just drawing a parallel to say that this Thai action is not at all odd in the greater scheme of things.

I strongly dislike dogmatics, I am staunchly atheist, and resent any religion being forced upon me. However, when I visit a friend's house for dinner and they insist on saying grace, I sit and wait quietly until they are finished, I don't get stuck into the food while their eyes are still closed. . Respect the host.

[jfchandler]

Thanks for the very helpful non-answer, answer SBK....

I live in Thailand, and I know how they "try" to handle alcohol sales on Buddhist holidays....

My question was, what actual days are the "ban" days next week...and the entire Nation article makes no mention of the actual days... Good journalism...speaking as a former journalist...

For the record, the two Buddhist holidays next week are Tues and Weds., July 7 and 8.

Here's the link to TV's list of all the Thai holidays for 2009....

sbk, on 2009-07-03 10:35:45, said:

jfchandler, on 2009-07-03 10:05:40, said:

So what exact days are they talking about here.... Nice that the Nation article doesn't even bother to say...

I didn't quote the entire article but anyone who lives in Thailand would be aware that it is all major Buddhist holidays, such as the upcoming Khao Phansa.

[robblok]

Harcourt, on 2009-07-03 11:16:03, said:

robblok, on 2009-07-03 15:12:55, said:

Jungian, on 2009-07-03 09:48:29, said:

A lot of bars in the USA are still closed on Sunday and you can't buy alcohol in many states on Sunday, with the exception of South Dakota where you can buy all the beer you want just nothing hard... I think the law now is that food sales have to be equal or higher than alcohol sales and the bar can be opened (in most states). So, no it applies to everyone tourists are not exempt what would you do anyway to prove you are a tourist? I'm sure if you look closely you will find opened bars.

So because the good ol USA does it its a good thing ? Forcing religions dogma's onto others is wrong period.

Drive carefully, I don't want your kharma to run over my dogma.

I don't think he's saying anything like "If the USA does it, it's a good thing". Like me in my post which mentions New Zealand....just drawing a parallel to say that this Thai action is not at all odd in the greater scheme of things.

I strongly dislike dogmatics, I am staunchly atheist, and resent any religion being forced upon me. However, when I visit a friend's house for dinner and they insist on saying grace, I sit and wait quietly until they are finished, I don't get stuck into the food while their eyes are still closed. . Respect the host.

I am an atheist too, but i just hate it how religion is always forced upon others. Your example is nice but doesnt really compare to what is done here in my opinion anyway.

But i bet your friends dont make you say grace with them. That is what's happening here. I like to point out once more i don't drink so its more a case that it conflicts with my principles.