Posted 2009-07-05 20:13:48
 InterestedObserver, on 2009-07-05 12:38:53, said:
jflundy, on 2009-07-05 17:43:38, said: stevehaigh, on 2009-07-05 11:03:41, said: InterestedObserver, on 2009-07-04 17:02:38, said: If you are having a house built for yourself, make sure that you get your name on the building permit. A construction contract between you and the builder is exactly that, it won't prove ownership in the future. Only the building permit or a sales agreement will do that. If the land is owned by a company, then you should secure a 30 year lease and then get the building permit in your name.
land offices (at least in Ko Phangan so i assume its the rule everywhere) will not issue a building permit in the name of a foreigner. it must be a Thai person or Thai owned company.
Seems to be the same here in Hua Hin Thai Person or Thai owned company can only get a Building Permit.
In the same boat as the OP and have the BP in the company name, however think I will go the superficies route to claim ownership of the property:
http://www.thailandl...s_thailand.html
What do you think?
Certainly you have to have real land rights in your name ( superficies, lease etc.) before you can get a building permit with your name on it. Whoever said that you can just throw up a building anywhere you wish, without the land owners permission.
The Company who own the land gave me permission to build on the land, however only giving me written confirmation and not legal confirmation at the time the BP was applied for.
Posted 2009-07-05 20:35:32
oracle, on 2009-07-03 11:41:32, said: Your wife maybe did this with the best of intentions, so don’t judge her to soon about this.
Sure
http://www.gocomics.com/shoe/ (July 5th)
Posted 2009-07-05 21:01:03
From Experience first hand within the last 2 months -
my Thai Wife ( final divorce hearing is end of July !! ) also stole all my company Papers / documents / chanoot.
i was only a shareholder in the company holding my property .
this is what i did to get all the papers /Documents replaced AND sell the house afterwards !!
i used BSS business services in Pattaya on Soi 17 ,( a good thorough company ) ( who formed the company originally ) to replace all the documents / blue book .
the task was easy because they had copies of everything on file - cost just a few thousand baht and took about a week or two .
the hard part was replacing the chanoot -- ABC Lawyers on Dolphin Roundabout were dealing with my divorce case ( DONT USE THEM for yours ! ) they advised me to report the chanoot as stolen in the Police Station .. ( since found out a thai wife cant legally steal from her husband >? ) the reason to report as stolen was to prove a history of thefts committed by my wife against me , family and friends .
it turns out that if the chanoot is known to be stolen by the land registry ( we gave them the police report as reason to replace it ) , and the wife is known to have it , land registry cannot issue a new one because its where abouts is known and advised me to take civil action against my wife which could take years !!
bad legal advise given initially caused a LOT of problems ..
enter Magna Carta Law Firm =) i had a buyer ready to buy the property but no chanoot .
Magna Carta advised with the newly replaced company papers to change directors to the new owner . the new owner then files a police report that he is not in possession of the chanoot. this police report is taken to Land Registry and used to obtain a replacement chanoot -- legally and safely ... took about 7 weeks and 20k baht for Magna Carta s fees which was the best money i have spent so far in Thailand ... looking forward to going to court on 31st and showing the lease agreement for my newly RENTED property to the soon to be unhappy ex wife =)
you need to make sure the change in directors / shareholders is published - if there is any recourse by your wife that you have illegally removed her from the company , this published article acts under thai law as the chance for someone to object within a small time frame ... and protects you .
i may not have explained myself well but the main point is --saying the chanoot is lost or misplaced is better than saying the wife has stolen it .
depending on the share structure of your company that holds the property you probably have 49% with 2 or more thais holding 51%. if the share xfer documents have been signed you could probably xfer enough shares to your control to call a share holders meeting .. in this meeting you write ( minutes ) that the nominee shareholders have not fully paid up there shares and publish in the local to you thai newspaper that shareholders will be transferred in your company , citing non payment of shares . ( thus removing your wife as shareholder -- can she prove she paid up her shares ? )
good luck .. pm me if u need anymore info ..
keep your chin up.. i know how frustrating / painful it is when the greed comes into play !!!
Posted 2009-07-05 22:29:07
galowgala, on 2009-07-03 11:04:33, said: Carib, on 2009-07-03 09:21:53, said: Who has got the chanote of the place and on who`s name is it written out to??
That is what counts.
So you think you are scammed because of the blue book?? Something wrong in your relationship me thinks.
I still have the chanute and blue book in my safe at home and my wife has gone, she is now getting very nasty with all sorts of threats. it was a con from the 1st day she met me, she continuously gave me story's to extrude money from me, for her and her family.I told her from the start that i don't send money to her family they are not my responsability and she said not a problem. then we got married then it all changed, I gave in to some of the lies and gave money out. I then put a stop to it, as i could not financially afford to do it anymore.
Well, this is exactly what happened between me and my wife, but when the baby arrived three years ago, the able turned turned. I needed a maid, and the only maid she would have is her mother. I hope you can guess the rest.
I think the house is still yours. You have to match her threats with threats.
Good luck.
Posted 2009-07-06 17:37:15
Seems to me that if she owns the house but you own the land and there is no existing land lease arrangement with her to have the house on your company's land you could:
1. Have the company charge her a very high monthly land lease rate and when she can't make timely payments have the company put a lien on the house until the accruing lease payments are brought up to date or move to foreclose on her.
but you must do this reasonably soon because she may get squatter's rights on your land if you do nothing and she establishes this as her household for a long period of time.
2. Find a business developer interested in building a building on your company's land and get paid on that, have the house removed... but you may actually break even or a little profit.
Since it is not you, but the company's decision to do these things...you can't be the bad guy...right?
Edited by DMasut, 2009-07-06 17:39:41.
Posted 2009-07-06 18:36:15
bannerman, on 2009-07-05 21:01:03, said: From Experience first hand within the last 2 months -
my Thai Wife ( final divorce hearing is end of July !! ) also stole all my company Papers / documents / chanoot.
i was only a shareholder in the company holding my property .
this is what i did to get all the papers /Documents replaced AND sell the house afterwards !!
i used BSS business services in Pattaya on Soi 17 ,( a good thorough company ) ( who formed the company originally ) to replace all the documents / blue book .
the task was easy because they had copies of everything on file - cost just a few thousand baht and took about a week or two .
the hard part was replacing the chanoot -- ABC Lawyers on Dolphin Roundabout were dealing with my divorce case ( DONT USE THEM for yours ! ) they advised me to report the chanoot as stolen in the Police Station .. ( since found out a thai wife cant legally steal from her husband >? ) the reason to report as stolen was to prove a history of thefts committed by my wife against me , family and friends .
it turns out that if the chanoot is known to be stolen by the land registry ( we gave them the police report as reason to replace it ) , and the wife is known to have it , land registry cannot issue a new one because its where abouts is known and advised me to take civil action against my wife which could take years !!
bad legal advise given initially caused a LOT of problems ..
enter Magna Carta Law Firm =) i had a buyer ready to buy the property but no chanoot .
Magna Carta advised with the newly replaced company papers to change directors to the new owner . the new owner then files a police report that he is not in possession of the chanoot. this police report is taken to Land Registry and used to obtain a replacement chanoot -- legally and safely ... took about 7 weeks and 20k baht for Magna Carta s fees which was the best money i have spent so far in Thailand ... looking forward to going to court on 31st and showing the lease agreement for my newly RENTED property to the soon to be unhappy ex wife =)
you need to make sure the change in directors / shareholders is published - if there is any recourse by your wife that you have illegally removed her from the company , this published article acts under thai law as the chance for someone to object within a small time frame ... and protects you .
i may not have explained myself well but the main point is --saying the chanoot is lost or misplaced is better than saying the wife has stolen it .
depending on the share structure of your company that holds the property you probably have 49% with 2 or more thais holding 51%. if the share xfer documents have been signed you could probably xfer enough shares to your control to call a share holders meeting .. in this meeting you write ( minutes ) that the nominee shareholders have not fully paid up there shares and publish in the local to you thai newspaper that shareholders will be transferred in your company , citing non payment of shares . ( thus removing your wife as shareholder -- can she prove she paid up her shares ? )
good luck .. pm me if u need anymore info ..
keep your chin up.. i know how frustrating / painful it is when the greed comes into play !!!
Good for you, if more guys did what you did, maybe the scams would decrease.
But it doesnt seem like most guys caught in these bad marriages have neither brains nor balls to go trough with it.
Posted 2009-07-07 11:08:27
Your best recourse is to find another lawyer. When you do find one, ask him if:
a) since she owns the house (if she indeed, does) can you charge her rent for having it on your property?
 can you sell your property and let someone else worry about her house on it?
c) can you demand she remove the house from your property?
If any of those options exist, be prepared to offer her a low, but fair, price for the house.
Posted 2009-07-07 15:08:50
" it was a con from the 1st day she met me, she continuously gave me story's to extrude money from me, for her and her family."
"Extruded" money from you. I would pay to see that.
Posted 2009-07-08 14:03:59
I love this thread. It’s like two conversations going on at the same time. One is people saying you weren’t conned, she just put her name on the Blue book (Tambien Baan), has nothing do with ownership of land or house.
At the same time there is running conversation from people saying, sorry to hear you got your house stolen from you, my wife did the same thing, others saying talk to a lawyer, etc.
Actually kinda fun.
TH
Posted 2009-07-08 15:40:50
thaihome, on 2009-07-08 14:03:59, said: I love this thread. It's like two conversations going on at the same time. One is people saying you weren't conned, she just put her name on the Blue book (Tambien Baan), has nothing do with ownership of land or house.
At the same time there is running conversation from people saying, sorry to hear you got your house stolen from you, my wife did the same thing, others saying talk to a lawyer, etc.
Actually kinda fun.
TH
The wife obviously thinks that she conned the OP and stole the house, both at the same time.
Posted 2009-07-08 18:02:32
File a complaint with the Land Department, and claim that the home is a marital asset.
Posted 2009-07-08 19:19:13
hhgz, on 2009-07-08 18:02:32, said: File a complaint with the Land Department, and claim that the home is a marital asset.
That's the last thing he needs to do, get the Land Department involved. Is his company, the purported land and house owner, 100% legitimate (sans nominees)?
Posted 2009-07-09 11:25:37
The OP seems to have disapeared, Troll perhaps?
I think there is another side to this post. If you reading through the OP's previous posts they are mostly about drinking, bars, pubs & clubs. Maybe his wife has good reason to get rid of him. 
Posted 2009-07-10 05:30:16
gee wiz....
it is truly a horrifying relationship and story to read, especially at 4 in the morning.... lol
just so, our diversified farangs' experiences are balanced out, in this case, slightly in favor of thai lady....
there are also other farangs, i believe, who have positive relationships with their wives/gf. one particular
family came to mind.
the thai wife owns everything, with her name on everything--even the brandnew pickup truck which
was purchased with the usd. the land itself stretches from one 2-lane freeway to another. within this
property sits a western styled resort, waterfalls, steams, brooks, caves and amazonic miniature
rainforest for tourists and diners to enjoy.
what is it worth? let me see.... yes, i am still counting....
yes, this is a true story.
is the man invalid perhaps, in some way? physically? mentally?
no, he certainly is not, definitely not, that i know of anyway.
why on earth am i relating this real life story anyway?.... lol
oh, yes, i remember now....
just for us to realize that we do not all look at and treat thai ladies
the same way and at the same level of desire and appreciation....
and most importantly, most thai ladies are not at all very
experienced and sophisticated with the exception of those educated abroad.
besides, they are easily led astray by us as well.... shame on me.... lol
Posted 2009-07-11 08:17:51
galowgala, on 2009-07-03 10:04:33, said: Carib, on 2009-07-03 09:21:53, said: Who has got the chanote of the place and on who`s name is it written out to??
That is what counts.
So you think you are scammed because of the blue book?? Something wrong in your relationship me thinks.
I still have the chanute and blue book in my safe at home and my wife has gone, she is now getting very nasty with all sorts of threats. it was a con from the 1st day she met me, she continuously gave me story's to extrude money from me, for her and her family.I told her from the start that i don't send money to her family they are not my responsability and she said not a problem. then we got married then it all changed, I gave in to some of the lies and gave money out. I then put a stop to it, as i could not financially afford to do it anymore.
They should post these stories at every port-of-entry in Thailand. Maybe some of these spendthrift gents would get the message. I personally am sick and tired of every woman in Thailand expecting 1 million bht + sin sod, house, car and monthly salary for her and her family from a Farang. It has become standard operating proceedure (SOP) for them.
Posted 2009-07-11 08:42:28
a2396, on 2009-07-11 08:17:51, said: galowgala, on 2009-07-03 10:04:33, said: Carib, on 2009-07-03 09:21:53, said: Who has got the chanote of the place and on who`s name is it written out to??
That is what counts.
So you think you are scammed because of the blue book?? Something wrong in your relationship me thinks.
I still have the chanute and blue book in my safe at home and my wife has gone, she is now getting very nasty with all sorts of threats. it was a con from the 1st day she met me, she continuously gave me story's to extrude money from me, for her and her family.I told her from the start that i don't send money to her family they are not my responsability and she said not a problem. then we got married then it all changed, I gave in to some of the lies and gave money out. I then put a stop to it, as i could not financially afford to do it anymore.
They should post these stories at every port-of-entry in Thailand. Maybe some of these spendthrift gents would get the message. I personally am sick and tired of every woman in Thailand expecting 1 million bht + sin sod, house, car and monthly salary for her and her family from a Farang. It has become standard operating proceedure (SOP) for them.
BINGO! and always after moving in / married, before that they never ask for a cent, their different and not like "the others" lol!!
me ex paid for us to stay in 5 star hotels etc( Estranged husbands credit cards) , thought i was luckiest man in BKK. days after signing a 12month lease and moving in she tries for a Million bht which seems to be a bench mark. we split three days later
All you guys out there be warned by the OPs post. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duc.........
Edited by zorro1, 2009-07-11 08:44:17.
Posted 2009-07-11 16:43:37
galowgala, on 2009-07-03 03:00:12, said: I got married about 1 and a half years ago to a Thai lady, My house is owned by my company,
She noticed on my blue book for my house that the name in it was the German builders Thai wife's name was in the blue book, so she went to the Amphur office to change it for me, but unbeknown to me as i was signing the documents in Thai.
she was actually putting the house book in here name and not my company as i thought. now she has the house in her name she has made all efforts to split us up and tells me now that the house is hers and i cant have it back. I went to a Thai lawyer and he tells me that the chanute is still my company's name so i own the land but she owns the building now.
The lawyer tells me i can knock the house down as her house is on my company's land, that really is not going to help me as i need to sell it to try and retrieve some of the money she has creamed out of me, with all her stories, i don't want to bore you with all them stories and lies. but basically what can i do, if anything to get my house back, please can i have constructive and correct info, as i really don't need to be told what a " Stupid Farang " I am. Im distressed enough as it is.
So you married a person you can't trust, quite stupid. Life is about learning, some learn from mistakes they make others learn from mistakes others make. You should have known better.
Do not marry
Do not buy a house
Do not buy land
Do not trust people 100%
Four simple rules that have to be mandatory when living in Thailand (any third world country) that would have kept you out of troubles.
Edited by MayBeLater, 2009-07-11 16:45:08.
Posted 2009-07-11 18:11:00
Some good advice on this thread it seems - be wise and know which ones they are.
I would just add :
1) Ownership of property in Thailand devolves to whoever paid the money - as you did, and can prove with records of money transfers etc - this helps you.
2) You should try several lawyers and choose the one that suits you best. Be warned that what they say to you, and what they agree to the other party behind your back - or even to your face if you don't speak Thai - may not always be the same thing. You really must get a decent lawyer, this is imperative.
3) Judges are all powerful. So whatever you do, don't challenge him. And don't expect your lawyers to.
4) Be Thai. Jai yen yen. But be cunning.
All this advice applies no matter how simple or difficult the situation may be. It's based on my personal experience with the very difficult, but very well placed, girlfriend of my late father.
Good luck.
Posted 2009-07-11 22:40:54
My GF has a blue book and until recently did not own a house or land I asked her today how she had a blue book she told me that when she sold her house and land that she owned she did not sell the address so now that she as just got some more land and is building a house she as been to see the head man of village and he as said that it is OK to build the house and she can use the address that is in the blue book (it is on the same road as her old land and house was) so it seems that the blue book does not always goes with the house
Posted 2009-07-12 04:32:02
Artabus, on 2009-07-11 18:11:00, said: Some good advice on this thread it seems - be wise and know which ones they are.
I would just add :
1) Ownership of property in Thailand devolves to whoever paid the money - as you did, and can prove with records of money transfers etc - this helps you.
2) You should try several lawyers and choose the one that suits you best. Be warned that what they say to you, and what they agree to the other party behind your back - or even to your face if you don't speak Thai - may not always be the same thing. You really must get a decent lawyer, this is imperative.
3) Judges are all powerful. So whatever you do, don't challenge him. And don't expect your lawyers to.
4) Be Thai. Jai yen yen. But be cunning.
All this advice applies no matter how simple or difficult the situation may be. It's based on my personal experience with the very difficult, but very well placed, girlfriend of my late father.
Good luck.
I disagree with #1 entirely and not just for the issues raised in #2-4!
Posted 2009-07-12 07:51:17
"That's the last thing he needs to do, get the Land Department involved."
Evidently you don't keep up with recent news, and explaining this to you would be a waste of both our times.
Posted 2009-07-12 11:17:51
hhgz, on 2009-07-12 07:51:17, said: "That's the last thing he needs to do, get the Land Department involved."
Evidently you don't keep up with recent news, and explaining this to you would be a waste of both our times.
I'll take the bait, what's this recent news?
Posted 2009-07-12 12:27:31
I was a "Stupid Falang" several months and everybody here was polite and let me vent my frustrations so I feel for you. Even if you get this straightened out it might be a "cloud" on the ownership of the house.
You always have another option: Does your house have insurance? Need I say more?
Posted 2009-07-12 12:47:16
MrHammer, on 2009-07-06 18:36:15, said: bannerman, on 2009-07-05 21:01:03, said: From Experience first hand within the last 2 months -
my Thai Wife ( final divorce hearing is end of July !! ) also stole all my company Papers / documents / chanoot.
i was only a shareholder in the company holding my property .
this is what i did to get all the papers /Documents replaced AND sell the house afterwards !!
i used BSS business services in Pattaya on Soi 17 ,( a good thorough company ) ( who formed the company originally ) to replace all the documents / blue book .
the task was easy because they had copies of everything on file - cost just a few thousand baht and took about a week or two .
the hard part was replacing the chanoot -- ABC Lawyers on Dolphin Roundabout were dealing with my divorce case ( DONT USE THEM for yours ! ) they advised me to report the chanoot as stolen in the Police Station .. ( since found out a thai wife cant legally steal from her husband >? ) the reason to report as stolen was to prove a history of thefts committed by my wife against me , family and friends .
it turns out that if the chanoot is known to be stolen by the land registry ( we gave them the police report as reason to replace it ) , and the wife is known to have it , land registry cannot issue a new one because its where abouts is known and advised me to take civil action against my wife which could take years !!
bad legal advise given initially caused a LOT of problems ..
enter Magna Carta Law Firm =) i had a buyer ready to buy the property but no chanoot .
Magna Carta advised with the newly replaced company papers to change directors to the new owner . the new owner then files a police report that he is not in possession of the chanoot. this police report is taken to Land Registry and used to obtain a replacement chanoot -- legally and safely ... took about 7 weeks and 20k baht for Magna Carta s fees which was the best money i have spent so far in Thailand ... looking forward to going to court on 31st and showing the lease agreement for my newly RENTED property to the soon to be unhappy ex wife =)
you need to make sure the change in directors / shareholders is published - if there is any recourse by your wife that you have illegally removed her from the company , this published article acts under thai law as the chance for someone to object within a small time frame ... and protects you .
i may not have explained myself well but the main point is --saying the chanoot is lost or misplaced is better than saying the wife has stolen it .
depending on the share structure of your company that holds the property you probably have 49% with 2 or more thais holding 51%. if the share xfer documents have been signed you could probably xfer enough shares to your control to call a share holders meeting .. in this meeting you write ( minutes ) that the nominee shareholders have not fully paid up there shares and publish in the local to you thai newspaper that shareholders will be transferred in your company , citing non payment of shares . ( thus removing your wife as shareholder -- can she prove she paid up her shares ? )
good luck .. pm me if u need anymore info ..
keep your chin up.. i know how frustrating / painful it is when the greed comes into play !!!
Good for you, if more guys did what you did, maybe the scams would decrease.
But it doesnt seem like most guys caught in these bad marriages have neither brains nor balls to go trough with it.
Actually Hammer, some of it has to do with amount of funds available. Sometimes the wife has made a money grab and what I have found in LOS is that in every learning experience, even the smallest, cost a good amount of cash. So hiring lawyers and then hiring second lawyers begins to add up. So not everyone that has arrived here has deep pockets to compensate for steep learning curve that we all must go through.
Posted 2009-07-12 13:03:07
thaiwanderer, on 2009-07-03 19:05:28, said: As the OP is in a hurry to sell can he easily establish to a prospective buyer that he actually owns the house?
Chanote for the land alone does not.
Has ownership of the house been registered at the land office?
If not, isn't the blue book required (along with a number of other documents) as part of the registration process (which includes a 30 day public notice inviting objections to the house being registered in the OP's company's name)?
Is the building permit in the OP's company's name?
Is there an appropriately detailed construction contract or house sale and purchase contract (or suffcient such clauses included in the land sale and purchase contract)?
IMHO the blue book being in the wife's name does not necessarily denote her ownership or ensure the house cannot be registered to the OP's company but it is certainly a stumbling block (particularly if in a hurry to sell) and registered ownership of the land alone (with the a blue book in the name of an aggrieved wife) is unlikely to be attractive to a buyer.
(edit - also who knows what the OP signed - maybe a 3year lease / right of habitation ?
As per your edit, we need to know what it was he signed and whether it was something the wife could act upon to transfer ownership of the house to herself.
The OP needs his accountant or lawyer to check at both the Land Office and City Hall to see whether any changes have been made. It should only take an hour or two and if everything is OK then he can sleep more easily.
The Blue Book could well be a red herring here, but can't he get it changed into his company's name or does his wife now have to consent to that?
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