Posted 2009-07-12 15:07:51
 InterestedObserver, on 2009-07-12 11:17:51, said:
hhgz, on 2009-07-12 07:51:17, said: "That's the last thing he needs to do, get the Land Department involved."
Evidently you don't keep up with recent news, and explaining this to you would be a waste of both our times.
I'll take the bait, what's this recent news?
I would like to hear too as I do not recall the land office suddenly becoming sympathetic to farangs using sham companies to own land.
Posted 2009-07-12 16:40:18
thaiwanderer, on 2009-07-12 04:32:02, said: Artabus, on 2009-07-11 18:11:00, said: Some good advice on this thread it seems - be wise and know which ones they are.
I would just add :
1) Ownership of property in Thailand devolves to whoever paid the money - as you did, and can prove with records of money transfers etc - this helps you.
2) You should try several lawyers and choose the one that suits you best. Be warned that what they say to you, and what they agree to the other party behind your back - or even to your face if you don't speak Thai - may not always be the same thing. You really must get a decent lawyer, this is imperative.
3) Judges are all powerful. So whatever you do, don't challenge him. And don't expect your lawyers to.
4) Be Thai. Jai yen yen. But be cunning.
All this advice applies no matter how simple or difficult the situation may be. It's based on my personal experience with the very difficult, but very well placed, girlfriend of my late father.
Good luck.
I disagree with #1 entirely and not just for the issues raised in #2-4!
Why do you disagree with number #1? Be interested to know what I've missed.
Not going to hijack the thread and worry about #2-4.
Thanks.
Posted 2009-07-13 17:28:57
Artabus, on 2009-07-12 16:40:18, said: thaiwanderer, on 2009-07-12 04:32:02, said: Artabus, on 2009-07-11 18:11:00, said: Some good advice on this thread it seems - be wise and know which ones they are.
I would just add :
1) Ownership of property in Thailand devolves to whoever paid the money - as you did, and can prove with records of money transfers etc - this helps you.
I disagree with #1 entirely and not just for the issues raised in #2-4!
Why do you disagree with number #1? Be interested to know what I've missed.
Not going to hijack the thread and worry about #2-4.
Thanks.
Because paying does not at all equate to ownership.
As an example, the OP's company owns the land (maybe). He doesn't own it. He has benefiical and effective ownership only insofar as he is able to control the company and avoid any investigation as to the method of the company's landholding. Should a dispute without or within the company occur as to control and or ownership of the land occur proving that 'he' (personally) paid for the land does not at all strengthen his personal claim on the land. Indeed it weakens any control or beneficial use he may have via the company as it demonstrates it is a sham. There might (but all bets are off at that stage) then be a forced sale (resulting in little or no value being retained) and he can be found guilty of an imprisonable offence.
This is of course based on the method of ownerhsip ever being disputed, tested or investigated. Decide for yourself on the likelihood of that but when we are talking of ownership structures and the like if the possibility of a dispute or investigation is entirely discounted then farangs may aswell just illegally squat on land.
Once you choose to circumvent the law you are only really building paper houses with contracts of varying thickness. Some are better than others but never forget they are still made of paper.
Posted 2009-07-23 23:19:06
[/quote]
Because paying does not at all equate to ownership.
As an example, the OP's company owns the land (maybe). He doesn't own it. He has benefiical and effective ownership only insofar as he is able to control the company and avoid any investigation as to the method of the company's landholding. Should a dispute without or within the company occur as to control and or ownership of the land occur proving that 'he' (personally) paid for the land does not at all strengthen his personal claim on the land. Indeed it weakens any control or beneficial use he may have via the company as it demonstrates it is a sham. There might (but all bets are off at that stage) then be a forced sale (resulting in little or no value being retained) and he can be found guilty of an imprisonable offence.
This is of course based on the method of ownerhsip ever being disputed, tested or investigated. Decide for yourself on the likelihood of that but when we are talking of ownership structures and the like if the possibility of a dispute or investigation is entirely discounted then farangs may aswell just illegally squat on land.
Once you choose to circumvent the law you are only really building paper houses with contracts of varying thickness. Some are better than others but never forget they are still made of paper.
[/quote]
Thanks very much for clarifying your answer. Very interesting detail. I see my experience was not relevant to the OP, something I should have spotted... 
Posted 2009-07-24 05:50:24
You guys are incredible. You know the golden rule in Thailand. NEVER invest in Thailand more than you are willing or can stand to lose. ESPECIALLY IF THIS INVOLVES A WOMEN, which when dealing with real estate is usually 100% of the time. Walk away with your life and you will be the richer for it... and lucky too!!!
Posted 2009-07-25 04:25:31
imaneggspurt, on 2009-07-03 12:05:07, said: Carib, on 2009-07-03 09:21:53, said: Who has got the chanote of the place and on who`s name is it written out to??
That is what counts.
So you think you are scammed because of the blue book?? Something wrong in your relationship me thinks. With all due respect. nothing like stating the obvious,  "Something wrong in your relationship me thinks."
of course theres something wrong with this relationship,,just answer his question and dont be putting him under anymore pressure than what he is under allready....i would live in the house myself and try keep her out no matter what,,thats if u can afford to do so....failing all that i would torch it,,honestly!
hope u get it sorted one way or the other,,best of luck..
Posted 2009-07-25 22:48:04
and i cant have it back. I went to a Thai lawyer and he tells me that the chanute is still my company's name so i own the land but she owns the building now.
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.......
The lawyer tells me i can knock the house down as her house is on my company's land,
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...... He tells you that the house belongs to her and also that you can knock it down... if so, then why can't you sell it? Odd, don't you think?
There's a lot of interesting comments here which seem to be in your favor.
Surely you have already had the documents you signed translated to English to be sure of exactly what you signed!
If you don't have a copy, then get your new lawyer do demand a copy from your ex-wife. Surely she, ultimatelly, can't refuse you a copy.
If she did try to take you to court then your lawyer (therefore you) would be absolutely entitled to have copies of any documents she intended to submit to the court.
Another tactic might be to claim you are goigt to take her to court and therefore she must give copies of all documents as part of the court process and cannot refuse.
Seems to me you need to get a new and very reputable lawyer and fast and pay whatever it costs.
I suggest that you summarize the comments offered here and take these with you to the new lawyer. I would do this as a test of the lawyers integrity and his/her knowledge of the law, as well as to confirm exact intertretations, possibilities, etc.
For example:
- Tell the lawyer that you believe the sole purpose of a Tabien Baan book is a registry of the people who actually live at the house and nothing more. Ask if your understanding is correct, check the response. Another point to check very carefully is the legal status in terms of ownership or whatever of the person nominated as the head of the house in the Tabien Baan book.
- Do something similar in terms of the building permit stuff, etc. Maybe also go to the builder beforehand and ask for copies of whatever documents the builder is holding, and also ask the builder whether he's aware of any other usage of these documents after the house was completed. Perhaps also get these translated into English so you have good understanding of what the documents say.
Posted 2009-07-27 08:10:11
scorecard, on 2009-07-25 22:48:04, said: The lawyer tells me i can knock the house down as her house is on my company's land,
This is the main issue with all of these 'lease the building/house' on someone else's property issue (including your wife or s.o.). In the end, you've got a bunch of concrete, brick, and rubble that you either have to try to sell to someone else (likely at a huge loss), or dismantle and move somewhere else (at a huge loss AND inconvenience). And that's the positive route... the other is that you could end up in court for a decade racking up court and legal fees first before you lose.
Posted 2009-07-27 13:00:23
Well, if, as some have suggested, you walk away, I would hire a JCB first and do some 'landscaping' on my land. Good Luck. Is the piece of land large? and the house of significant value. Could you walk away?
Edited by Tigs, 2009-07-27 13:00:49.
Posted 2009-09-26 02:57:22
I assume the OP will be getting a divorce. Thai divorce law says that no matter whose name is on which document, the values of all assets accrued by a couple after marriage are divisible 50-50, and yes this applies to foreign nationals as well as Thais.
Posted 2009-10-27 00:02:09
The Blue Book is just a registration book for those who live at the propety. its so that the police can check to see if they are Born in Thailand , a bit like sensuous document . Nothing to do with House or land ownership.
Posted 2009-10-27 02:03:49
May I be permitted to put a different 'Slant' on all of this house thing , First the OP says HE has a company that owns the land , he cannot , he is only a minority owner , should he go to prove the point HE fronted the money for the land he is screwed because that is ILLEGAL , so he can be out voted in what ever may be the outcome regarding the property .
The OP states that HE payed to have the house built so therefore he owns it and not his wife , he is screwed there because a non Thai cannot 'Own' a house , it has to be in the name of a Thai or a registered company of which HE can only be a minority share holder so he can be out voted as to the future of the house , screwed again .
In Thai law it seems that on divorcing it becomes a 50/50 split on sale of assets , therefore his best and by far the easiest path for him is to forget lawyers/accountants etc which can and will cost him even more of his hard earned monies , take the divorce , take his 50% and run .
From all the threads and stories I have listened to over the years , I never got even close to this kind of situation because I had taken advise from my first boss , he said " They say that experience comes from the accumulation of all of the mistakes a person makes in their daily lives , my advice to you is to pay attention to the other guy and learn from HIS mistakes about what NOT to do in your life , you will find that a much more simple and cheaper way to learn ".
Hope I am not raining on somebody elses parade and what I have learned(hopefully) from others in this respect is at least somewhere in the ballpark .
Posted 2009-10-27 02:38:34
[quote name='bannerman' date='2009-07-05 21:01:03' post='2852172']
From Experience first hand within the last 2 months -
( since found out a thai wife cant legally steal from her husband >? )
What ????
Posted 2009-10-27 03:07:53
So that's where the expression came from "What's yours is mine and mine's my own" , well normaly in a marriage the general theme is to 'Share and share alike ' , but then again TiT LOL 555 .
Posted 2009-10-27 06:47:58
Dear people,
Why are you advising this man when you dont get how it works in thailand?? I just stopped reading your comments.
He is doing a illegal thing, (buying land in company name). so he probably has not much to work with.
he could pay a great deal o money and try a connected smart lawyer and pray, thats all .
My friend you have no real lawfull rights since by thai law you own a land illegally.
A foreigner can not own land in thailand unless he has permission from the interionr ministry to own a land of maximum 1 rai for eresidential use in therefore designated..........etc etc
Wish you the best
-------------------
now i read more
dumbal is absolutely right
let this be a lesson to everyone...which it wont be i am sure
you cant buy love with money...it sure does help a lot but be carefullll
Edited by aras, 2009-10-27 06:53:58.
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Posted 2010-02-09 23:20:52
dumball, on 2009-10-27 02:03:49, said: May I be permitted to put a different 'Slant' on all of this house thing , First the OP says HE has a company that owns the land , he cannot , he is only a minority owner , should he go to prove the point HE fronted the money for the land he is screwed because that is ILLEGAL , so he can be out voted in what ever may be the outcome regarding the property .
The OP states that HE payed to have the house built so therefore he owns it and not his wife , he is screwed there because a non Thai cannot 'Own' a house , it has to be in the name of a Thai or a registered company of which HE can only be a minority share holder so he can be out voted as to the future of the house , screwed again .
In Thai law it seems that on divorcing it becomes a 50/50 split on sale of assets , therefore his best and by far the easiest path for him is to forget lawyers/accountants etc which can and will cost him even more of his hard earned monies , take the divorce , take his 50% and run .
From all the threads and stories I have listened to over the years , I never got even close to this kind of situation because I had taken advise from my first boss , he said " They say that experience comes from the accumulation of all of the mistakes a person makes in their daily lives , my advice to you is to pay attention to the other guy and learn from HIS mistakes about what NOT to do in your life , you will find that a much more simple and cheaper way to learn ".
Hope I am not raining on somebody elses parade and what I have learned(hopefully) from others in this respect is at least somewhere in the ballpark .
A foreigner CAN legally own a house or any property. Just not the land. In his case the land is owned by a company he is a minor shareholder in. This company will in its balance sheet show that he is owed a certain ammount in the form of a loan as capital introduced. This must be paid back to him on the sale of property/land. Blue book means nothing at all. Do yourself a favour find a good lawyer. No one here can give you accurate Thai legal advice. Only express their opinions. Get your company documents up to date and ensure your taxes for the company are paid. Check the Chanote is in your(COMPANY) name and you have a sales contract or purchase agreement for the house. With regards divorce, your wife could be entitled to halve your interest in your company. Together with any other assets you have obtained since your marriage. If you dont have marriage registered at the amphur. Dont worry about that one.
Posted 2010-02-09 23:30:07
From my understanding, the blue book is ONLY for Thais to register their address. Farangs cannot be listed in the blue book. I don't think you have anything to worry about but you should check with the Land Office to comfirm the nothing has been changed with the chanote . Of course, checking with a lawyer would be the safest thing.
Posted 2010-02-10 07:57:21
The OP say unbeknown to him he was signing the documents in Thai?? He must have seen the documents were written in Thai. Why sign something he did not understand? ...and he owns his own company? I hope he is more careful with his company documents.
Posted 2010-02-11 13:05:57
how241, on 2010-02-09 17:30:07, said: From my understanding, the blue book is ONLY for Thais to register their address. Farangs cannot be listed in the blue book. I don't think you have anything to worry about but you should check with the Land Office to comfirm the nothing has been changed with the chanote . Of course, checking with a lawyer would be the safest thing.
I think you will find that farang who have gained Thai residency status HAVE to have a registration in a blue book somewhere.
I presume people will google "Thai Residency for foreigners" before commenting.
Posted 2010-02-14 18:46:54
pdcott, on 2010-02-09 23:20:52, said: dumball, on 2009-10-27 02:03:49, said: May I be permitted to put a different 'Slant' on all of this house thing , First the OP says HE has a company that owns the land , he cannot , he is only a minority owner , should he go to prove the point HE fronted the money for the land he is screwed because that is ILLEGAL , so he can be out voted in what ever may be the outcome regarding the property .
The OP states that HE payed to have the house built so therefore he owns it and not his wife , he is screwed there because a non Thai cannot 'Own' a house , it has to be in the name of a Thai or a registered company of which HE can only be a minority share holder so he can be out voted as to the future of the house , screwed again .
In Thai law it seems that on divorcing it becomes a 50/50 split on sale of assets , therefore his best and by far the easiest path for him is to forget lawyers/accountants etc which can and will cost him even more of his hard earned monies , take the divorce , take his 50% and run .
From all the threads and stories I have listened to over the years , I never got even close to this kind of situation because I had taken advise from my first boss , he said " They say that experience comes from the accumulation of all of the mistakes a person makes in their daily lives , my advice to you is to pay attention to the other guy and learn from HIS mistakes about what NOT to do in your life , you will find that a much more simple and cheaper way to learn ".
Hope I am not raining on somebody elses parade and what I have learned(hopefully) from others in this respect is at least somewhere in the ballpark .
A foreigner CAN legally own a house or any property. Just not the land. In his case the land is owned by a company he is a minor shareholder in. This company will in its balance sheet show that he is owed a certain ammount in the form of a loan as capital introduced. This must be paid back to him on the sale of property/land. Blue book means nothing at all. Do yourself a favour find a good lawyer. No one here can give you accurate Thai legal advice. Only express their opinions. Get your company documents up to date and ensure your taxes for the company are paid. Check the Chanote is in your(COMPANY) name and you have a sales contract or purchase agreement for the house. With regards divorce, your wife could be entitled to halve your interest in your company. Together with any other assets you have obtained since your marriage. If you dont have marriage registered at the amphur. Dont worry about that one.
There is an exception: If your company is BOI sponsored, it may a) be 100% foreign owned and  own land for residence and/or business. I believe it's max 1 rai, not 100% sure. I know I can own land through my 100% owned company, though. However, if the company is dissolved, the land/house MUST be sold within 6 months.
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