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[dansexperience]

hopefully, the kid is excempt. we should all have a choice unless the nazis comeback

[MikeSoi11]

^ how dare u?

[chuckd]

submaniac, on 2009-07-04 11:38:05, said:

thunder30101, on 2009-07-03 20:32:56, said:

Everyone on this board complains about the corruption in thailand until it is useful to them. Its HIS country they HAVE conscription so why cant he man-up and do his duty like all other thais ??? Unless you want to teach him thats its okay to buy your way out of his duty to his country, now thats a great life lesson.

It is a reality that children of the wealthy do not have to go to military, be it in Thailand or USA. In the USA it certainly isn't George Bush's kids that are getting blown up in Afghanistan or Iraq.

George Bush has two daughters and has been out of office for eight months.

The US Military is an all volunteer army. There is no conscription. Poor people don't have to go either.

You need to get your facts straight.

Edited by chuckd, 2009-07-05 11:46:07.

[gpdjohn]

chuckd, on 2009-07-05 11:45:12, said:

submaniac, on 2009-07-04 11:38:05, said:

thunder30101, on 2009-07-03 20:32:56, said:

Everyone on this board complains about the corruption in thailand until it is useful to them. Its HIS country they HAVE conscription so why cant he man-up and do his duty like all other thais ??? Unless you want to teach him thats its okay to buy your way out of his duty to his country, now thats a great life lesson.

It is a reality that children of the wealthy do not have to go to military, be it in Thailand or USA. In the USA it certainly isn't George Bush's kids that are getting blown up in Afghanistan or Iraq.

George Bush has two daughters and has been out of office for eight months.

The US Military is an all volunteer army. There is no conscription. Poor people don't have to go either.

You need to get your facts straight.

Let's see here.. 2 from the top of my head.
Vice President Biden's son is currently serving in Iraq
So is John McCain's.

[bina]

my israeli/american daughter is being discharged in 3 weeks and a few days (she's counting the hours and cant wait to get to the states to visit grandparents); my son is going in on the 11 of august.... both hold dual israeli american citizenship and israeli law says: anybody with israeli citizenship must do army if they are living in israel for more then a certain amount of years, they are the age to do army, and there are a few other criteria as well... israelis over seas have to actively get permission to not do army. this does not affect their american citizenship in any way ...

however, the differences in type of army are distinct. thai army for the general soldier are really bad conditions, many often have to hunt their own food;no medical treatment to speak of, no benefits for their families even if dying in line of duty- unlike in israeli army, soldiers do not get home leave , and there is little contact between the family and the soldier; most soldiers dont have a clue as to what they are doing/fighting for; and as someone mentioned, they are the 'labourers ' of the higher ups... the thai side is of course heresay from guys i know who were in the thai army obviously not as officers. israeli army , well, everyone knows someone in the army whether soldier or officer....

bina
israel

[Spaniel]

samran, on 2009-07-04 11:21:45, said:

where is he going to spend his post college life? Thailand or the US?

Is he registered on the housebook?

At the moment, it is possible to defer things based on his continued education.

He's not sure what he will do after graduation or where he will live. Maybe the US or maybe here. He is registered on the housebook.

I'm just trying to get a feel for how the draft works. Do we apply now for a deferment based on continued education? Will they send a draft notice to him and do we at that time go for a deferment?

[Spaniel]

thunder30101, on 2009-07-04 12:32:56, said:

Everyone on this board complains about the corruption in thailand until it is useful to them. Its HIS country they HAVE conscription so why cant he man-up and do his duty like all other thais ??? Unless you want to teach him thats its okay to buy your way out of his duty to his country, now thats a great life lesson.

Thanks for your reply. Where did you get the info that all other Thais were doing there duty and joining up? No, I dont want to teach him that it's okay to buy your way out of duty and in this case he isn't looking at it that way, although I guess that's what it is.

[Spaniel]

retiredusn, on 2009-07-04 13:07:32, said:

thunder30101, on 2009-07-04 11:32:56, said:

Everyone on this board complains about the corruption in thailand until it is useful to them. Its HIS country they HAVE conscription so why cant he man-up and do his duty like all other thais ??? Unless you want to teach him thats its okay to buy your way out of his duty to his country, now thats a great life lesson.

I agree all the way...........If the draft is allowed again in the US are you going to buy your way out

Well I would expect a Navy chief to "agree all the way" with the above statement. He is registered with the SSS in the US and if the draft is re-instated he will have to take his chances. I would hardly compare getting drafted in the US military with Thai military service. Actually I would encourage him to pursue a US militay career but his interest are in other things.

[Texpat]

He can sign up with a US service until his eligibility for Thai service expires.

Who knows, he might make a career of it, retire to Thailand and employ some of those Thai generals as pool boys and gardenerers.

Edited by Texpat, 2009-07-07 17:03:52.

[Spaniel]

Maizefarmer, on 2009-07-04 15:23:14, said:

Spaniel, on 2009-07-04 09:38:06, said:

Our son, who is 19 and dual national (US/Thai) is attending college in the USA and here for the summer. We're looking to get him a exemption from service. In other words payoff someone at the draft board. But what is the procedure and estimate of the cost? Has anyone done this recently and what were your experiences? We live in Bangkok (Kannayao).

The idea that all kids from prominent and/or rich families get out of military service in Thailand isn't true. You certainly hear of examples through the media, but you hear of them because of who they are and because its unusual - not because everyone is at it.

My son is attending Uni in the USA as well - and when he comes back he wants to do his military service. With his overseas uni education he'll almost certainly get into the military acadamy. That means officer training, something to be proud of and a whole bunch of employment oppurtunities that he would otherwise be overlooked for in the future by employers.

Your son could be in that position as well. Military service is not all negative. Its certainly a tough few years - espicially if youre rank and file, but like most things in life, its what one makes of the oppurtunity.


That all aside, why doesn't he want to do military service?

He wants to finish college first. Maybe after that his idea of military service may change.

[Spaniel]

geriatrickid, on 2009-07-04 16:10:07, said:

A deferment is possible. Don't let the negative comments upset you.


If you are an overseas student under the supervision of the Office of Civil Service Commission (Kor Por), the office will apply for your deferment on your behalf.
If you are an overseas student on private funding, you, your parents, or guardians will be responsible for applying for deferment at the military registrar of the district of your residence.

Required documents presented for deferment must fully explain the following:
Applicant’s intended field of study
Name and place of institution
Number of years expected to complete the degree
School transcript (translated into Thai when necessary with name and title of translator)
Number of years requested for deferment
A copy of your military reserve letter (Sor Dor 9) and a copy of the selective service letter (draft letter requiring you to enter military service - Sor Dor 35)
A copy of your house registration
Certification letter from the Embassy, Consulate General, or Office of Student Affairs confirming that the applicant is indeed studying for a certain degree at a particular institution.

To apply for a certification letter from the Consulate General or Embassy, please provide the following required documents:
A copy of passport pages with applicant's personal information and photograph (first 5 pages of the old passport or first 3 pages on the new smaller passport) with endorsements and amendment page if applicable
A copy of the applicant's house registration
A Letter from the university confirming enrollment of applicant, and stating field of study and number of years expected to complete the degree
Translation of the letter from the university
Fully completed petition form (Legelization application form)
Processing fee, pay by cash if apply in person, or by Money Order or Certified Cheque payable to "The Royal Thai Consulate General" if apply by mail/courier.
If the applicant wishes the consulate to return the document by mail, please include a pre-paid express post envelop along with your application


Hope this helps.



Paying for a dispensation is not limited to the wealthy. I know one guy that had his family pay 40,000 baht to avoid the call up. Hardly a wealthy family.
My friend was drafted and did his service. He lost 2 years of earnings potential as did his family lose the monetary support. For the poor it is a real hardship to serve. It also screwed up his university. Because he didn't know the dispensation rules he lost out. Another aquaintance had to draw the ball, but lucked out. In his case, military service would have done him some good.


If the people condemning your position understood that many conscripts are limbless because of the IED & mine situation in the deep south, they wouldn't be so harsh. My personal opinion is that the availability of manpower allows there to be a reliance on men vs the appropriate reinforced vehicles and protective gear. People forget that in the west, a soldier is an investment and thousands of dollars/euros/pounds go into the training of that soldier, so it's a major loss when one is wounded or killed. It's a horrible situation in the deep south and one that is not fully reported.

Thanks for the information. That's the kind of info I'm looking for.

[Spaniel]

gk10002000, on 2009-07-05 00:19:24, said:

Spaniel, on 2009-07-04 09:38:06, said:

Our son, who is 19 and dual national (US/Thai) is attending college in the USA and here for the summer. We're looking to get him a exemption from service. In other words payoff someone at the draft board. But what is the procedure and estimate of the cost? Has anyone done this recently and what were your experiences? We live in Bangkok (Kannayao).

This brings up some issues. I am a US citizen. Ex US Air Force. There are some very strong laws about what ex servicemen can do, especially in regards to retirement pay. For example, a retired US officer, if he goes and joins another country's military, he would no longer get his retirement pay. A classic case was a high ranking US general that went to Estonia I think, to help organize their military.

Now in your case, obviously the son is not in that situation. But if he serves in the Thai military, that may severely limit what he can do in the USA. It may preclude him from US military service. It may preclude him or at least severely handicap him from getting a US Government civil service job. I am not sure, but mention these issues for consideration. The issue of course is when an adult starts swearing allegience to a country or foreign potentate as I think the US oath text reads. Being born and inheriting dual citizenship by birth is one thing, but once an adult starts taking active actions, things change.

Dual citizenship can be a nice thing, but one may have to make some choices. Oh, and the current US military service system is entirely voluntarily and has been for several decades. However, all legal aged adults are required to sign up and register. I would think that applies to your son at this time and you may not be aware of that. I doubt that where he is currently residing precludes him from this registration requirement.

At 18 he registered with the US Selective Service System, on-line.

[longstebe]

submaniac, on 2009-07-04 13:40:46, said:

To Mr. Retired USN, I have a whole lot of respect for you given that you are apparently a military man. But the arguments that are being made, I must respectfully disagree. It is a different situation for being drafted into the Thai army as opposed as the U.S. military.

My allegiances lie with the United States, more so than Thailand. I love Thailand, and am patriotic to Thailand, but not enough to join their army. I--as well as any other male above the age of 16--registered for the U.S. selective service. If called upon I would go. But the reason I would go is because the United States is a democracy, and if there is a war, it is because the people of the USA elected the leaders, and the leaders decided that there was justification to go to war. For democracy and for the freedoms that the United States gives me, I would go. Thailand, on the other hand, is not a real democracy. The prime minister obtains his power by buying votes from poorer districts in Thailand, then uses his position to sell off Thailand's assets at a great personal gain for himself. I do not want to fight for that.

The United States went to war in Afghanistan, because they sheltered Osama Bin Ladin who attacked my country in Sept. 2001. For that I would gladly go to war for. I did not agree with the war in Iraq because it was made to protect the U.S.'s oil supply. But having said that, the U.S. is legitimately trying to restore democracy in that country. And the fact that it is legitimately a fight for democracy, is something noble, for which I would feel comfortable in fighting for.

Michael moore would have something to say about this.

[TerryLH]

"...the differences in type of army are distinct. thai army for the general soldier are really bad conditions, many often have to hunt their own food;no medical treatment to speak of, no benefits for their families even if dying in line of duty- unlike in israeli army, soldiers do not get home leave , and there is little contact between the family and the soldier; most soldiers dont have a clue as to what they are doing/fighting for; and as someone mentioned, they are the 'labourers ' of the higher ups... the thai side is of course heresay from guys i know who were in the thai army obviously not as officers."

Do you believe everything you hear?