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[auntyedna]

Another Amazing Thailand experience in which one pays a tax on a tax on a tax on a tax...

I recently imported some tractor parts from Italy and got an unexpectedly high bill for additional charges from the courier, UPS.  Imagine my surprise to find from the very friendly and helpful UPS people that 10% duty is applied not only to the goods, but also to the courier charge.  Imagine my further surprise to find that Customs stick on a per-kilogram charge BEFORE they calculate the 10% duty, and then imagine my diminishing surprise (by this time) to find that Revenue Department charges 7% VAT on the whole lot, including the duties.  

And then imagine my complete lack of surprise to find that there was a further "taxable charge" payable to UPS (presumably for sorting out the above) and yet another 7% VAT on that.  So I paid Thai VAT on a service to pay Thai VAT on a Thai duty on a Thai duty.

The figures (Thai Baht) worked out as follows:

a. cost of goods - 2,724.50

b. air freight charge - 4,301
c. Thai customs charge (300 per kilo) - 900
d. insurance (for something or other) - 70

e. Sub-total - 7,995.50

f. Thai customs duty (10%) on ALL of above - 799
g. VAT on both (e) AND (f) - 615

h. Taxable charge - 150
i. VAT on (h) - 10.50

j. Grand total - 9,570

From the above trouser-emptying experience, you can work out that the total import tariff comes to 85% of the value of the goods!!  Riap Roi?  Or Rip Off?

Not Really Amazed At All
Phang Nga

[thaihome]

I regularly send a low value package to India; the charges are calculated exactly the same way.  Can never understand why the transportation cost is included in the value and then you pay VAT on the whole amount including the duties.
TH

[imaneggspurt]

I get this all the time, just imported a peice of plactic that cost $30, paid 1300 baht taxes,..they are all begining to charge this cif charge now as there is a recession !,.its the thai way, slow economy, put the price up,

[madjbs]

There really are some ignorant people here in Thailand.

This is how duty is paid everywhere in the world, not just Thailand. So the "Amazing Thailand" comments, just make you look silly and a member of the "everything in Thailand is rubbish or a scam" club.

Edited by madjbs, 2009-07-09 14:29:28.

[imaneggspurt]

madjbs, on 2009-07-09 14:27:14, said:

There really are some ignorant people here in Thailand.

This is how duty is paid everywhere in the world, not just Thailand. So the "Amazing Thailand" comments, just make you look silly and a member of the "everything in Thailand is rubbish or a scam" club.

You my friend are talking bollocks, i was in business here for 9 years and part of that business was unfortunatly dealing with customs and excise, i suggest you get out more into the real world,in " the real world " as you put it there is set charge for goods, in thailand its who you get, and how much you are prepared to haggle, do that in the states/uk can you ? ,this applies for anything from being quoted 5000 baht on a pair of bike rims from china that cost $40, being told the rate was 30 per cent, ( postage was $45 ) to a bike i imported and went from 100.000 to 350.000, i changed nothing, they do, so, unless you came from laos or cambodia, i suggest this line wasnt thought out was it ?....."This is how duty is paid everywhere in the world "

[CWMcMurray]

This is how it is done and has been this way for as long as I can remeber...so this has nothing to do with the economic downturn.

Import Duty is based upon the CIF value of the goods.

VAT is calculated using the CIF value of the goods + the amount of Import Duty paid

You do realize that if your supplier issues their invoice stating that the invoice value is CIF value of goods, then for customs purposes the freight charges have already been included in the invoice value.

Another point, if the HAWB (House Air Way Bill) is rated, then the cost of freight that will be used for calculating Duty and Tax will be what is shown on the HAWB. If the HAWB shows "As Agreed", then the rate on the MAWB (Master Air Way Bill) will need tobe used when calculating taxes. So make sure your freight forwarder is using a "rated" HAWB.

But of course, if you are buying something with a cost of goods of 2,700 thb and the freight charge is +4,000 thb this really wouldn'tbe useful to you...

[samran]

thaihome, on 2009-07-09 08:20:01, said:

I regularly send a low value package to India; the charges are calculated exactly the same way.  Can never understand why the transportation cost is included in the value and then you pay VAT on the whole amount including the duties.
TH

think of it this way:

If a good was produced locally in thailand it would have transport costs as part of the overall price at the point of sale. The VAT is then added for the final consumer.

Same concept when something is produced overseas and imported into Thailand. If you are the Thai seller, you are going to mark up the cost to include the frieght cost and other handling costs, otherwise you'd be losing out on the sale. If it is fair for the seller to do that, then it is fair for the Thai government to apply the VAT to the final sales price in Thailand.

You can be sure that the VAT wasn't paid in Italy. The person who sold the good would have claimed a VAT exemption. In most countries, exports are usually exempted from VAT.

nb...there is a whole set of well debated literature on the application of VAT. The long and the short of it, it is much simpler and fairer to apply a VAT at the final point of sale, as it doesn't distort economic decisions (which, if you are an economist, in all but a few cases you want the market to behave freely, without taxes distorting the decision made by the consumer). I'm sure I've confused you by now, so I'll just shut it....

Edited by samran, 2009-07-09 17:57:14.

[Norrad]

I know the feeling. I purchased some hobby parts from Hong Kong and I was charged nearly 80% import duty. Unfotunately, some of the parts were defective and I had to return them. Now I wonder if I will get charged again when they come back. I've got the original reciepts and payment proof, so hopefully they will just let it through.

[imaneggspurt]

CWMcMurray, on 2009-07-09 16:54:56, said:

This is how it is done and has been this way for as long as I can remeber...so this has nothing to do with the economic downturn.

Import Duty is based upon the CIF value of the goods.

VAT is calculated using the CIF value of the goods + the amount of Import Duty paid

You do realize that if your supplier issues their invoice stating that the invoice value is CIF value of goods, then for customs purposes the freight charges have already been included in the invoice value.

Another point, if the HAWB (House Air Way Bill) is rated, then the cost of freight that will be used for calculating Duty and Tax will be what is shown on the HAWB. If the HAWB shows "As Agreed", then the rate on the MAWB (Master Air Way Bill) will need tobe used when calculating taxes. So make sure your freight forwarder is using a "rated" HAWB.

But of course, if you are buying something with a cost of goods of 2,700 thb and the freight charge is +4,000 thb this really wouldn'tbe useful to you...

i had one today, goods value $35, shippind $30, ( cif $65 ? )  i paid 1223, baht,plastic part for a bike ,30 per cent i was told,

[imaneggspurt]

Norrad, on 2009-07-09 18:21:02, said:

I know the feeling. I purchased some hobby parts from Hong Kong and I was charged nearly 80% import duty. Unfotunately, some of the parts were defective and I had to return them. Now I wonder if I will get charged again when they come back. I've got the original reciepts and payment proof, so hopefully they will just let it through.

i wouldnt bank on it, i sent a set of seat covers to the uk, they didnt fit and wouldnt fit anything else so i had them sent back here ( to country of origin ) they charged me 3000 baht duty, i tried to explain i sent them from thailand , it fell on deaf ears,

[glegolo]

auntyedna, on 2009-07-09 12:11:58, said:

Another Amazing Thailand experience in which one pays a tax on a tax on a tax on a tax...

I recently imported some tractor parts from Italy and got an unexpectedly high bill for additional charges from the courier, UPS. Imagine my surprise to find from the very friendly and helpful UPS people that 10% duty is applied not only to the goods, but also to the courier charge. Imagine my further surprise to find that Customs stick on a per-kilogram charge BEFORE they calculate the 10% duty, and then imagine my diminishing surprise (by this time) to find that Revenue Department charges 7% VAT on the whole lot, including the duties.

And then imagine my complete lack of surprise to find that there was a further "taxable charge" payable to UPS (presumably for sorting out the above) and yet another 7% VAT on that. So I paid Thai VAT on a service to pay Thai VAT on a Thai duty on a Thai duty.

The figures (Thai Baht) worked out as follows:

a. cost of goods - 2,724.50

b. air freight charge - 4,301
c. Thai customs charge (300 per kilo) - 900
d. insurance (for something or other) - 70

e. Sub-total - 7,995.50

f. Thai customs duty (10%) on ALL of above - 799
g. VAT on both (e) AND (f) - 615

h. Taxable charge - 150
i. VAT on (h) - 10.50

j. Grand total - 9,570

From the above trouser-emptying experience, you can work out that the total import tariff comes to 85% of the value of the goods!! Riap Roi? Or Rip Off?

Not Really Amazed At All
Phang Nga

---------------------------------------------
I am sorry to be honest to you. You import stuff and you do not calculate at all?? You buy stuff/services and you do not check up????
You are a fooll, my friend!

Normally when it concerns import the following equation is valid;
Purchase of goods .....................
Transportcharges............................
arrivelcharges in country of destination....................
customs duty..................'
other customs expensies.........................
VAT ...........................................
Oncarriage transport charges up to your premises..........................

So that is what you should deal with BEFORE you start to IMPORT and complain.

Glegolo

[Oberkommando]

imaneggspurt, on 2009-07-09 16:27:19, said:

madjbs, on 2009-07-09 14:27:14, said:

There really are some ignorant people here in Thailand.

This is how duty is paid everywhere in the world, not just Thailand. So the "Amazing Thailand" comments, just make you look silly and a member of the "everything in Thailand is rubbish or a scam" club.

You my friend are talking bollocks, i was in business here for 9 years and part of that business was unfortunatly dealing with customs and excise, i suggest you get out more into the real world,in " the real world " as you put it there is set charge for goods, in thailand its who you get, and how much you are prepared to haggle, do that in the states/uk can you ? ,this applies for anything from being quoted 5000 baht on a pair of bike rims from china that cost $40, being told the rate was 30 per cent, ( postage was $45 ) to a bike i imported and went from 100.000 to 350.000, i changed nothing, they do, so, unless you came from laos or cambodia, i suggest this line wasnt thought out was it ?....."This is how duty is paid everywhere in the world "

Agree with the above post, and I have also had similar dealings with Customs due to my business interests.

Thai Customs are a law unto themselves and thoroughly corrupt.

madjbs - sorry, but you don't understand how Thai Customs operates nor how bad they can actually be.

[imaneggspurt]

glegolo, on 2009-07-09 20:54:21, said:

auntyedna, on 2009-07-09 12:11:58, said:

Another Amazing Thailand experience in which one pays a tax on a tax on a tax on a tax...

I recently imported some tractor parts from Italy and got an unexpectedly high bill for additional charges from the courier, UPS. Imagine my surprise to find from the very friendly and helpful UPS people that 10% duty is applied not only to the goods, but also to the courier charge. Imagine my further surprise to find that Customs stick on a per-kilogram charge BEFORE they calculate the 10% duty, and then imagine my diminishing surprise (by this time) to find that Revenue Department charges 7% VAT on the whole lot, including the duties.

And then imagine my complete lack of surprise to find that there was a further "taxable charge" payable to UPS (presumably for sorting out the above) and yet another 7% VAT on that. So I paid Thai VAT on a service to pay Thai VAT on a Thai duty on a Thai duty.

The figures (Thai Baht) worked out as follows:

a. cost of goods - 2,724.50

b. air freight charge - 4,301
c. Thai customs charge (300 per kilo) - 900
d. insurance (for something or other) - 70

e. Sub-total - 7,995.50

f. Thai customs duty (10%) on ALL of above - 799
g. VAT on both (e) AND (f) - 615

h. Taxable charge - 150
i. VAT on (h) - 10.50

j. Grand total - 9,570

From the above trouser-emptying experience, you can work out that the total import tariff comes to 85% of the value of the goods!! Riap Roi? Or Rip Off?

Not Really Amazed At All
Phang Nga

---------------------------------------------
I am sorry to be honest to you. You import stuff and you do not calculate at all?? You buy stuff/services and you do not check up????
You are a fooll, my friend!

Normally when it concerns import the following equation is valid;
Purchase of goods .....................
Transportcharges............................
arrivelcharges in country of destination....................
customs duty..................'
other customs expensies.........................
VAT ...........................................
Oncarriage transport charges up to your premises..........................

So that is what you should deal with BEFORE you start to IMPORT and complain.

Glegolo

So, heres another one that has probably never imported anything,. . little knowledge is dangerous my friend, IF you had any knowledge of the thai customs you would know they use musical customs charges, .no one, me included is complaining of paying import charges, its the rate they charge we are moaning about, quoting one price then charging more when you have had it sent in,

[Costas2008]

Can't understand all these figures!!!!!!
Last year I send a laptop to my wife from UK to Khon Kaen.
Purchase price 450GBP
Delivery charge 75GBP......DHL if I remember well.
Tax calculated by Thai customs and paid to DHL on delivery 900Baht.
Are you all doing something wrong??????

[thaicbr]

Yep. they are using UPS. The biggest Ripoff delivery company in Thailand. Stateside knows about the ongoing problems but does nothing. Also Costa's you sent a personal gift and were lucky. I had some stuff from the States via USPS, value $290 no duty. another $90 delivery and 900b customs. Its just the luck of the draw.

[imaneggspurt]

Costas2008, on 2009-07-09 21:36:18, said:

Can't understand all these figures!!!!!!
Last year I send a laptop to my wife from UK to Khon Kaen.
Purchase price 450GBP
Delivery charge 75GBP......DHL if I remember well.
Tax calculated by Thai customs and paid to DHL on delivery 900Baht.
Are you all doing something wrong??????

Well they probably saw it a 4.50, ,otherwise its impossible,.

[imaneggspurt]

thaicbr, on 2009-07-09 21:55:16, said:

Yep. they are using UPS. The biggest Ripoff delivery company in Thailand. Stateside knows about the ongoing problems but does nothing. Also Costa's you sent a personal gift and were lucky. I had some stuff from the States via USPS, value $290 no duty. another $90 delivery and 900b customs. Its just the luck of the draw.

My latest one was actually DHL,one is no better than the other i feel,.im sure its a combined business they ( the customs and the carriers ) have going,.

[madjbs]

When I said that is how duty is charged everywhere around the world, I was exactly right.

The difference in Thailand is that the customs office might try and charge you with a higher tariff code than the goods should have.

That doesn't change the way that the duties are calculated though, which is what the OP was complaining about, as he was only charged 10% duty.

[photojourn]

I just had a used computer part shipped EMS from Australia. It should arrive in the next day or so.
Value of part $A10. Shipping $A45. Sent as a gift. it will be interesting to see what the local charges are when the bag arrives.  

[glegolo]

photojourn, on 2009-07-10 02:46:04, said:

I just had a used computer part shipped EMS from Australia. It should arrive in the next day or so.
Value of part $A10. Shipping $A45. Sent as a gift. it will be interesting to see what the local charges are when the bag arrives.

-------------------------------
Have seen now many posts about EMS DHL and UPS all being courier-services. I was talking about shipping via sea per Boat/Vessel
bigger quantities than a small laptop. Come on..... read the posts were people know what they are talking about.

Glegolo

[BigSnake]

  

auntyedna, on 2009-07-09 12:11:58, said:

Another Amazing Thailand experience in which one pays a tax on a tax on a tax on a tax...

I recently imported some tractor parts from Italy and got an unexpectedly high bill for additional charges from the courier, UPS.  Imagine my surprise to find from the very friendly and helpful UPS people that 10% duty is applied not only to the goods, but also to the courier charge.  Imagine my further surprise to find that Customs stick on a per-kilogram charge BEFORE they calculate the 10% duty, and then imagine my diminishing surprise (by this time) to find that Revenue Department charges 7% VAT on the whole lot, including the duties.  

And then imagine my complete lack of surprise to find that there was a further "taxable charge" payable to UPS (presumably for sorting out the above) and yet another 7% VAT on that.  So I paid Thai VAT on a service to pay Thai VAT on a Thai duty on a Thai duty.

The figures (Thai Baht) worked out as follows:

a. cost of goods - 2,724.50

b. air freight charge - 4,301
c. Thai customs charge (300 per kilo) - 900
d. insurance (for something or other) - 70

e. Sub-total - 7,995.50

f. Thai customs duty (10%) on ALL of above - 799
g. VAT on both (e) AND (f) - 615

h. Taxable charge - 150
i. VAT on (h) - 10.50

j. Grand total - 9,570

From the above trouser-emptying experience, you can work out that the total import tariff comes to 85% of the value of the goods!!  Riap Roi?  Or Rip Off?

Not Really Amazed At All
Phang Nga

   Tax paying anywhere SUCKS    but something we must do.

[imaneggspurt]

photojourn, on 2009-07-10 02:46:04, said:

I just had a used computer part shipped EMS from Australia. It should arrive in the next day or so.
Value of part $A10. Shipping $A45. Sent as a gift. it will be interesting to see what the local charges are when the bag arrives.  

If a small box with $10 part you will have no problem, if it weighs 10kg be ready for a fight,.

[VIBE]

I went to import some silver bullion coins that have a face value, meaning, it can be used as currency, and as such, no duty or taxes can be applied.  Took the said coins down to customs with TG and got her to confirm that there would be no duty and the reply was shocking.  The customs official understood that each coin had a face value of $5 and can be used as currency, but said duty would still be charged because its also made of silver and we might try to sell it.  So they recognized the fact that they are not suppose to charge duty on it, but will do so anyways.  Sometimes, one can not help but shake their head at how things are done here.  

[samran]

VIBE, on 2009-07-10 02:32:48, said:

I went to import some silver bullion coins that have a face value, meaning, it can be used as currency, and as such, no duty or taxes can be applied.  Took the said coins down to customs with TG and got her to confirm that there would be no duty and the reply was shocking.  The customs official understood that each coin had a face value of $5 and can be used as currency, but said duty would still be charged because its also made of silver and we might try to sell it.  So they recognized the fact that they are not suppose to charge duty on it, but will do so anyways.  Sometimes, one can not help but shake their head at how things are done here.  

hold on...

I know the customs department are probably the most corrupt part of the thai government, but it seems to me here that you were trying to scam them?

Just because it has a face value of $5, I'm guessing what you paid for the coin was more than $5, no? And you'd never use it as currency based on its face value I suspect?

If that is the case, customs is probably within its rights to at least define and base its charges on something other than the face value.

Sometimes, one can not help but shake their head at how things are done here.  

Edited by samran, 2009-07-10 11:17:55.

[mdechgan]

Congratulations,
You've figured out how Thai business people have been getting burned for over the years.
One gets charged tax on top of tax.  I think airfreight charges are already taxed by UPS which is included in the airfreight.  So one is actually getting charged VAT on the import duty and VAT on top of VAT.  I guess that's why its called value added tax instead of sales tax.