[/quote]
I certainly do not think these people are scum - I know one or two and they are great people. The point is though, these people are breaking the laws of Thailand. If you go to a foreign country you should follow the laws and customs of that country. If they get caught they they must accept the consequences.
You did not make this claim, but many others have and that is they are pouring in money and supporting the Thai economy. In reality they contribute little. Their income is from Thailnad ( so they are to some extent taking and pay no tax), they live just above the poverty line and without degrees or good teaching qualifications they are not exactly top drawer teachers.
Do you believe that such people are an asset to Thailand. I do not think so and if I am right why should Thailand make it easy for them to stay here?
[/quote]
Well Cruncher if you are getting your money from the Thai economy it won't be much unless you are very lucky and if you are spending it here what is the problem. You might not be putting much into the economy but you sure as hel_l won't be taking anything out because as a foreigner you get nothing here that you don't pay for. If you are working in a school for instance teaching to any level of ability then you are putting something back into the system - quite a lot actually comparatively speaking given the appalling pay and standard of many Thai teachers. Notwithstanding that if you are staying here long term you have no excuse not to comply with the rules - whether or not they change on a daily basis without explanation or warning.
It is well to remember Western countries have social welfare systems that simply do not exist here so naturally there should be some care taken as to who enters the country and is entitled to those benefits - a Thai going to live in a Western country gets a whole lot more than a foreginer living here so it follows the rules should be different. Also Thais are entitled to residency after a period of living in a Western country which does not happen to a Westerner. That said I am sure if the Thai government simplified the visa rules and had some sort of consistency it would be a benefit to everyone wanting to stay here and a benefit to the country from funds spent in the local economy (as opposed to the high end foreign run business most 'quality' tourists spend there money in). The fact that you get treated differently on a whim wherever you apply is a nonsense and a discredit to Thailand inviting derision.
0
Penang: Tourist Visa Rejected If Have 3 Tvisas Already...
Started by sedeflonga, 2009-07-22 19:58
#202
thaimiller
Expectant Father Member Posted 2009-07-23 16:23:28
A lot of countries work hard to build a tourist industry. Thailand seems to be the opposite working extreemly hard to destroy thiers. Cmon....! The people affected by this issue are NOT real tourists... they're long stay people who cost the country money and pay no taxes... they cost Thailand money... hey, you can't live on back to back tourist visas in most developed countries and Thailand is trying hard to develop. Time to stop complaining about our generous host country... get a real visa or move on. Easy. Once again someone who has cash and qualifications (or both) saying it's easy. How do you get legal when your on a budget and you don't have a degree? Being on a budget cancels out starting a company and not having a degree means you can't teach legally or get the kind of job which comes with a permit. (Unless you fancy time share that is)  Although I agree with you that Thailand is very accommodating and that disgracefully most Thais wouldn't even get into countries like America or Britain without vast amounts in the bank and a native spouse or well to do sponsor. I'm not one of these guys who thinks the Thai authorities are out to get us (they could make getting a work permit easier though) I'm just exasperated with all you obviously financially secure degree carrying folks who keep saying "Get legal, it's easy" It's not unless you are financially set or well qualified. There are plenty good people who want to be legal and pay tax but the system doesn't allow for folks on a budget or without a university education to get a permit. Will you all please stop saying it's easy and get off your high horses. #203
likewise
Senior Member Posted 2009-07-23 16:23:36
so how about what I said earlier, do your 3 TR visas then do 4 x 15 border runs and start again. It would be a waste of time and money. They will count the tourist visas in your passport issued from anywhere over any time period. This is exactly what they did back in 2007. When they came out with the 90 day in 180 rule you could do 3 border runs and then get TR visas, I've done that without ever getting any hassles or questions asked. I must have an honest face 
#204
mrbp
Advanced Member Posted 2009-07-23 16:35:30
I don't understand why people wouldn't get a class 'O' Non immigrant visa from your home country before coming here, it means that you can stay here for 15 months, you just have to leave the country every 90 days. It costs £100 which is about 5600 Baht very quick and easy to apply for. Going home every year and a quarter is no huge problem, maybe going back every now and then is actually a good idea as it will make you grateful for the life you have here. however I'm sure there are one or two people out there who are running from various things at home  Thousands of teachers are living on Thai wages and can't afford a flight home plus expenses. You don't have to be running away from home or living some scummy drunken sex tourist lifestyle to find flights and living expenses in the West too expensive. I know some very respectable hard working primary school teachers who don't have degrees so they are working illegally and they don't earn enough money for flights to Singapore let alone London or New York. The sad thing is is some of the decidedly slimy time share operators are given their work permits and visas easily. No questions asked. Those of you who think that being skint and working under the radar makes you scum and a drain on Thailand who should be sent home (with a short stay in the monkeyhouse) should think again. If you think that those with bags of money living in gated communities and eating in high end establishments are all upstanding members of the community who should be welcomed with open arms you are wrong once again. Some people who are living here illegally on a budget are contributing to the community and some rich farangs don't have any contact with the Thai population unless they are cleaning their condo or sex workers. It works both ways and economic status says nothing about whether your a good person or not. I certainly do not think these people are scum - I know one or two and they are great people. The point is though, these people are breaking the laws of Thailand. If you go to a foreign country you should follow the laws and customs of that country. If they get caught they they must accept the consequences. You did not make this claim, but many others have and that is they are pouring in money and supporting the Thai economy. In reality they contribute little. Their income is from Thailnad ( so they are to some extent taking and pay no tax), they live just above the poverty line and without degrees or good teaching qualifications they are not exactly top drawer teachers. Do you believe that such people are an asset to Thailand. I do not think so and if I am right why should Thailand make it easy for them to stay here? Well I know plenty of kids with degrees who aren't up to teaching and plenty of us long in the tooth worldly wise buggers with no degree who are naturals. So in answer to your question, some teachers are an asset to Thailand some are not and that applies equally to those with degrees as to those without. The thing is the Thai authorities know that most government school teachers only have TESOL qualifications and no degree because the government sector doesn't pay the kind of wages that most graduates expect. So the Thai authorities are aware of the situation. They have three choices. 1.crack down on the law breakers imprison and fine us then deport us and have a paucity of native English speaking teachers in gov schools. (which a lot of the financially sorted expats posting here seem to to be rubbing their hands with glee at the idea of seeing us budget wanke_rs in a cage with thirty Burmese illegals) 2.Up the wages to attract university graduates. 3.Start issuing work permits to people with TESOL certification. or of course carry on as we are and turn a blind eye to us criminalising us in the process. I would completely respect their wishes if they told me that I couldn't work in Thailand because I needed a teaching degree plus a TESOL. (Although I would be a tad peeved if I was hauled off to the monkey house considering the Thai authorities, the TESOL schools and the teaching agencies all unofficially know, allow and encourage TESOL graduates to work in the public sector) So having a degree says nothing about your ability as a teacher and even though we might not be contributing financially we are not a drain on the economy and we are involved in Thai communities in a way that many of the wealthy yacht owning gated community dwelling VIP visa crew are not. My gripe is not with the Thai authorities who are actually very accommodating, it's with the wealthy expats posting on here saying. "Oi budget scum get legal it's easy or piss off if you can't afford it" #205
Jingthing
Member Schmember Posted 2009-07-23 16:35:54 Quote Muslims are not a race, so you are not a racist. Islam is a religion not a race. Same with jews. There is not a jewish race. Edited by Jingthing, 2009-07-23 16:37:01. #206
NanLaew
International Gypsy Member Posted 2009-07-23 16:38:30
I am also here on a tourist Visa atm. I am married but dont have the 400k on my bankaccount anymore....AM I STUPID?? how many Thaipeople do you know with more than 100k on a Bank, specially in times like that. The only real poor in Thailand are these perpetual "Tourists". I reckon the Thai Consulates should also task these punters with mandatory multiple visits to 5 or 6 famous cultural or historical places EACH & EVERY time they get a Tourist Visa which needs to be endorsed in their passport during their 60/90-day tenure. If they miss one stop, "Sorry, no new visa as you obviously aren't Tourist!" Off to Cambodia with you now (and don't let the door bang your arse as you pass through Poipet)! Keep it up Thailand and get all these borderline illegal riff raff without a pot to piss in or criminal absconders off the Thai streets and back home where they belong. #207
likewise
Senior Member Posted 2009-07-23 16:44:41
I am also here on a tourist Visa atm. I am married but dont have the 400k on my bankaccount anymore....AM I STUPID?? how many Thaipeople do you know with more than 100k on a Bank, specially in times like that. The only real poor in Thailand are these perpetual "Tourists". I reckon the Thai Consulates should also task these punters with mandatory multiple visits to 5 or 6 famous cultural or historical places EACH & EVERY time they get a Tourist Visa which needs to be endorsed in their passport during their 60/90-day tenure. If they miss one stop, "Sorry, no new visa as you obviously aren't Tourist!" Off to Cambodia with you now (and don't let the door bang your arse as you pass through Poipet)! Keep it up Thailand and get all these borderline illegal riff raff without a pot to piss in or criminal absconders off the Thai streets and back home where they belong. Bit of a narrowminded retard are ya? 
#208
Gonzo the Face
Platinum Member Posted 2009-07-23 17:23:59
nobody is saying there isn't alot of thought going into these decisions. we just get the feeling that these decisions are based only on short term analysis. band-aid solutions if you will. eg, Financial Crisis, wave visa fees: if you drive your mercedez over the boarder from malaysia and stay at the orientel, only 15 days... wave to waive mercedez to mercedes boarder to border orientel to oriental ... Having just read about 6 or 7 pages of this thread, I see confusion coming from many sides of this issue. I think that most of those whinging and bichin, sic. are those who would not be happy with anything other than Thailand letting them stay here without any visa and no runs or restrictions at all. They can then tell us about how they are supporting the Thai economy by spending their 20,000 baht on the streets. You know in the social arena [read bars] maybe even getting lucky once in a while. 20,000 baht that they couldn't even get off the streets back home. Maybe take one or two beers less per month and maybe give up one chippy per month, and save the money so you can get the correct visa. Reading the past 6 or 7 pages one thing still leaves me confused. Are some of the posters writing in some language other than English?? Someone wrote about English Teachers and working. TV should be able to employ about 20 - 25 of these teachers to teach English to many of those posting. #209
rch1023
Advanced Member Posted 2009-07-23 17:24:39
Some consulates don't like people traveling to Thailand a lot on tourist visa and can give a stamp in your passport saying that they will not further isue a tourist visa to you. That is the policy of the consul, not of the Thai government. yes thats my whole point about this particular consulate,and when travelling to thailand what else do you travel with if not a tourist visa,oh forgot they dont like tourists,what a dump that consulate is.could always go to kota baru,not that far from penang. Sorry. Kota Bahru is doing it too. My son caught this, as I reported a month ago - http://www.thaivisa....a...25&start=25 - seems as if the Malay consulates are getting their act together. - Roger - #210
LivinLOS
Shaved Member Posted 2009-07-23 17:30:33
When they took away the visa running they said 'simply go get a tourist visa' they will not be restricted, its only so we can do checks on people.. Etc etc..
Again they have shown to be simply lieing.. You cannot blame the people caught up when this is the instructions from immigration chiefs right on down to the desk officer (I have had them tell me to overstay, or land border visa run myself in the past).. While they have no formal visa for wealthy under 50's people, yet at the same time market the country as a ideal destination for those same people to come, buy a condo, and set up shop.. This will continue.. Its a problem of their own making. #211
JR Texas
Platinum Member Posted 2009-07-23 17:34:20
I am also here on a tourist Visa atm. I am married but dont have the 400k on my bankaccount anymore....AM I STUPID?? how many Thaipeople do you know with more than 100k on a Bank, specially in times like that. The only real poor in Thailand are these perpetual "Tourists". I reckon the Thai Consulates should also task these punters with mandatory multiple visits to 5 or 6 famous cultural or historical places EACH & EVERY time they get a Tourist Visa which needs to be endorsed in their passport during their 60/90-day tenure. If they miss one stop, "Sorry, no new visa as you obviously aren't Tourist!" Off to Cambodia with you now (and don't let the door bang your arse as you pass through Poipet)! Keep it up Thailand and get all these borderline illegal riff raff without a pot to piss in or criminal absconders off the Thai streets and back home where they belong. Bit of a narrowminded retard are ya? Must be.....the post shows no understanding of the issue.....and came out of the mouth of a parrot.....probably one posted in the immigration department. Government officials in Malaysia, Cambodia and the Philippines would strongly disagree with the poster........there is no such thing as a "perpetual tourist" in those countries. There are simply tourists who are wanted as long as they spend money and don't break any laws. The problem in Thailand is more with the crazy laws than it is with the tourists. As stated before, if you don't have a firm, long term visa solution, you are a tourist......that includes virtually all expats who think they are on solid ground and not working or owning a business in Thailand. The current social engineering program has done nothing and will do nothing to get out "riff raff." It will not separate criminals from the rest of the expat/tourist population. To think it will is to live in a world of fantasy. If anything, crimes committed by "farangs" have increased dramatically since the implementation of the social engineering program. The solution is simple: Introduce two visas, one for tourists and one for business persons (like Cambodia). The tourist visa should be pay to stay.......unlimited stays possible w/ no leaving the country. To get it, and to satisfy the security function of the immigration department, a security background check can be done (for those who want to stay more than one year). The bad guys are weeded out. And for those that argue the reason for the visa changes is to catch illegal workers.........the vast majority of illegal workers are from neighboring Southeast Asian countries.......not Western countries. Most Westerners have no desire to work in Thailand. #212
Gonzo the Face
Platinum Member Posted 2009-07-23 17:36:56
Quote In the US, you need a legit reason and legit reasons are very limited and many many people don't have one. Sorry but I disagree. Banks are known for having a lots of money inside. Taking money out of the bank is legit if you have a passbook. Taking money out of the bank is not legit if you are doing so at gunpoint. You come in with a visa for a one reason. If its a holiday it may be a tourist visa. Once you are no longer a holiday maker or the terms of you getting that visa cannot be complied with, it is not a god given right that you get another, just because you want one. #213
Jingthing
Member Schmember Posted 2009-07-23 17:49:14 Quote You come in with a visa for a one reason. If its a holiday it may be a tourist visa. Once you are no longer a holiday maker or the terms of you getting that visa cannot be complied with, it is not a god given right that you get another, just because you want one. Quote The tourist visa should be pay to stay.......unlimited stays possible w/ no leaving the country. Edited by Jingthing, 2009-07-23 17:51:07. #214
Berndcnx
Newbie Posted 2009-07-23 17:55:17 Quote You come in with a visa for a one reason. If its a holiday it may be a tourist visa. Once you are no longer a holiday maker or the terms of you getting that visa cannot be complied with, it is not a god given right that you get another, just because you want one. ... why Thailand should work in another way as we know from the most countries in the world ?? Then complain USA ! ... cause they have certain problems with mexican people, living illegal in USA ! Then complain Germany ! ... cause they send people home, when they stay longer as shown in the VISA ! Then complain Australia ! ... where you have to show, that you are independent, before you are allowed to stay ! Thailand is a paradies, if we follow the rules ! ... the rules of Thailand ! #215
crocodilexp
Senior Member Posted 2009-07-23 17:55:54
I don't understand why people wouldn't get a class 'O' Non immigrant visa from your home country before coming here, it means that you can stay here for 15 months, you just have to leave the country every 90 days. It costs £100 which is about 5600 Baht very quick and easy to apply for. Going home every year and a quarter is no huge problem, maybe going back every now and then is actually a good idea as it will make you grateful for the life you have here. however I'm sure there are one or two people out there who are running from various things at home Thousands of teachers are living on Thai wages and can't afford a flight home plus expenses. You don't have to be running away from home or living some scummy drunken sex tourist lifestyle to find flights and living expenses in the West too expensive. I know some very respectable hard working primary school teachers who don't have degrees so they are working illegally and they don't earn enough money for flights to Singapore let alone London or New York. Not to be disrespectful, but I know a few very hard working and all around very nice Burmese and Lao nationals that are illegally in Thailand. They can barely afford to get a passport, let alone renew visas. I'm not being ironic here. Such is the world we live in. Total cost of such a Non-O option is 11,000 baht for the paperwork/legal advice, 7,000 baht for the visa, and let's say 36,000 for the travel expenses (back home or to a nearest friendly consulate). Adds up to 54,000 baht / 15 mo. (that's 3600 baht/mo). Clearly a lot of money, but hardly out of reach for most people. There's also the hassle of a 5-day (or so) trip. Of course, there are no guarantees Non-Os will be available next time around... so closing down of visa options should always be a cause for concern (not celebration!) even for the haughty bunch who are lucky to use other options. Not saying that it would be bad if this was cheaper... Edited by crocodilexp, 2009-07-23 18:01:01. #216
dr_Pat_Pong
Star Member Posted 2009-07-23 18:18:44
ITS HARD TO IMAGINE ANY OTHER COUNTRY THAT NEEDS TOURISTS SO MUCH BEHAVING IN SUCH A SELF-DESTRUCTIVE MANNER Drop the caps please. #217
NanLaew
International Gypsy Member Posted 2009-07-23 18:30:56
The only real poor in Thailand are these perpetual "Tourists". I reckon the Thai Consulates should also task these punters with mandatory multiple visits to 5 or 6 famous cultural or historical places EACH & EVERY time they get a Tourist Visa which needs to be endorsed in their passport during their 60/90-day tenure. If they miss one stop, "Sorry, no new visa as you obviously aren't Tourist!" Off to Cambodia with you now (and don't let the door bang your arse as you pass through Poipet)! Keep it up Thailand and get all these borderline illegal riff raff without a pot to piss in or criminal absconders off the Thai streets and back home where they belong. Bit of a narrowminded retard are ya? Let me hazard a guess here. Non-degreed "teacher" are we? Or just some another type of pseudo-tourist? Some of the loudest braying from those that feel hard done by is from the "non-degreed teacher club". Ummm... well, if you don't have a teaching degree I guess there's absolutely no chance of giving up your years of truck-driving or market-gardening or whatever and getting a real teaching job back home eh? Go figure. So, where else in this world, would you WANT to toil for years as an underpaid and usually illegal alien? I mean you truly have been born to be a great teacher; it just took you a few years to realise your true calling. So why Thailand then? That's right... it's the great weather, lovely food and easy border restrictions here isn't it? Bunch of arse. #218
reallyok
Senior Member Posted 2009-07-23 18:32:39
Good news for the Thai language ED visa schools. ud think there would be a school in every province. 1 days a week for 12 months, learn the language and get 2 stay. i've been thinking about it as my plan when i return. the problem is they're just in bkk, pattaya, chang mai? not of the places I want to live. how about i nice beach town (no pattaya is not nice). Then try "Mind your language" school on Samui ................PERFIK ! #219
Gonzo the Face
Platinum Member Posted 2009-07-23 18:45:34
Let me try and make it simple.
The law is what the law says. Consider if Thailand was a movie theater. You need a ticket[ read visa ] to get in legally. To get the ticket you must meet certain requirements. You must have the price of the ticket. You must meet the requirements. i.e. not have a gun in your pocket, not have a stick of dynamite under your coat, etc. IF YOU cannot meet these requirements , you do not get into the theater. Now you may be able to sneak past the guy at the side door, but if you get caught, you reap those benefits. Once you are inside the theater and abide by the rules, you get to stay until your movie is over and the ticket expires. You are not guaranteed that the ticket to the next movie will be the same price or conform to the same rules... Simple Who ever YOU are, the theater does not have to make special rules for you, just because you would like them too....... If you cannot meet this theaters requirements, go to another theater whose requirements you are able to meet and whose movie you like. #220
Mario2008
Superb Member Posted 2009-07-23 18:49:35
The only real poor in Thailand are these perpetual "Tourists". I reckon the Thai Consulates should also task these punters with mandatory multiple visits to 5 or 6 famous cultural or historical places EACH & EVERY time they get a Tourist Visa which needs to be endorsed in their passport during their 60/90-day tenure. If they miss one stop, "Sorry, no new visa as you obviously aren't Tourist!" Off to Cambodia with you now (and don't let the door bang your arse as you pass through Poipet)! Keep it up Thailand and get all these borderline illegal riff raff without a pot to piss in or criminal absconders off the Thai streets and back home where they belong. Bit of a narrowminded retard are ya? Let me hazard a guess here. Non-degreed "teacher" are we? Or just some another type of pseudo-tourist? Some of the loudest braying from those that feel hard done by is from the "non-degreed teacher club". Ummm... well, if you don't have a teaching degree I guess there's absolutely no chance of giving up your years of truck-driving or market-gardening or whatever and getting a real teaching job back home eh? Go figure. So, where else in this world, would you WANT to toil for years as an underpaid and usually illegal alien? I mean you truly have been born to be a great teacher; it just took you a few years to realise your true calling. So why Thailand then? That's right... it's the great weather, lovely food and easy border restrictions here isn't it? Bunch of arse.  And that was the end of this.  Behave yourself you two. There is no need to get personal. #221
thaimiller
Expectant Father Member Posted 2009-07-23 18:51:46
Very simple to understand and well put.
#222
reallyok
Senior Member Posted 2009-07-23 18:53:09
Don't know where home is, but Brisbane is easy as pie last I used it. 20 minutes flat, no issues. Dead right there mate ! I have been to the Brisbane Thai Consul at Woolloongabba twice and the first time they were almost twisting my arm up my back trying to make me see sense and take a 12 month visa when i happened to mention that i was intending to do a basic Thai language course. I am told that the consul is an Aussie guy married to a Thai and very sympathic. #223
mrbp
Advanced Member Posted 2009-07-23 18:54:20
I don't understand why people wouldn't get a class 'O' Non immigrant visa from your home country before coming here, it means that you can stay here for 15 months, you just have to leave the country every 90 days. It costs £100 which is about 5600 Baht very quick and easy to apply for. Going home every year and a quarter is no huge problem, maybe going back every now and then is actually a good idea as it will make you grateful for the life you have here. however I'm sure there are one or two people out there who are running from various things at home Thousands of teachers are living on Thai wages and can't afford a flight home plus expenses. You don't have to be running away from home or living some scummy drunken sex tourist lifestyle to find flights and living expenses in the West too expensive. I know some very respectable hard working primary school teachers who don't have degrees so they are working illegally and they don't earn enough money for flights to Singapore let alone London or New York. Not to be disrespectful, but I know a few very hard working and all around very nice Burmese and Lao nationals that are illegally in Thailand. They can barely afford to get a passport, let alone renew visas. I'm not being ironic here. Such is the world we live in. Total cost of such a Non-O option is 11,000 baht for the paperwork/legal advice, 7,000 baht for the visa, and let's say 36,000 for the travel expenses (back home or to a nearest friendly consulate). Adds up to 54,000 baht / 15 mo. (that's 3600 baht/mo). Clearly a lot of money, but hardly out of reach for most people. There's also the hassle of a 5-day (or so) trip. Of course, there are no guarantees Non-Os will be available next time around... so closing down of visa options should always be a cause for concern (not celebration!) even for the haughty bunch who are lucky to use other options. Not saying that it would be bad if this was cheaper... I agree about you so many lovely Burmese are fleeing persecution and they wouldn't even get the time I have had here. They are sent packing pronto. I'm not here to bemoan my status I'm just trying to point out the crappy attitudes of the wealthy expats who are busy saying that it's all easy and that people on a budget are dodgy undesirables. 54,000 baht just under three months wages. No chance #224
Globalguppy
Advanced Member Posted 2009-07-23 18:57:14
Just got word that I'm not eligible to get my tourist visa in Penang. Is it fairly easy to do in Vientienne? I'm running out of time, I must be out of here by Monday. What other cities do 2 month tourist visas?
Appreciate any helpful replies greatly! #225
fxe1200
Senior Member Posted 2009-07-23 19:04:44
...
[/quote] Are some of the posters writing in some language other than English?? [/quote] ....but we we do not have a forum for those multiple language members. ...aber wir haben kein Forum für diese mehrsprachigen Mitglieder. ...pero no tenemos un foro para aquellos miembros de lengua múltiples. |
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