187 replies to this topic
Posted 2009-07-23 12:44:17
A danish citizen was arrested at the SIAM SKY TRAIN STATION in Bangkok recently! The guards accused him of throwing a cigarette on the ground.
Only problem: the guy works in a hospital and is a non smoker and said he had nothing to do with the case. The dane was brought into a room and he was not allowed to go untill he paid Bth 10,000 to the security guards.
Here is the link. The story is from yesterday, it is in one of the biggest newspapers in Denmark. http://politiken.dk/...ticle755129.ece
This is a newspaper that do NOT run gossip-stories.
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"I was allowed to leave, that was the most important".
Anesteciatist Nils Georgsen from Copenhagen warns against being extorted money from Thai governement employees.
This warning coinsides with more countries wanting to investigate whether tourists have illegally been accused of shoplifting in Bangkok International Airport - after which they were forced to pay large amounts to be allowed to leave the country.
For Georgesen it went all wrong while he was waiting for a train at Siam Skytrain station, during a visit to Thailand's capital.
"I didn't suspect anything. All was quiet. Then, suddently a skytrain security guard came and pointed at a cigaret but on the platform", Nils Georgsen explans. Smoking is not allowed on the station. But despite the explanations from the Danish tourist that he is a non-smoker and that he he didn't shrow anything, he was still escorted to a guard room and surrounded by security guards.
Had to pay on the spot
They wanted money. They demanded 10,000 Baht. "This was no joke. They were very threatening. I tried to explain that I am a non-smoker, but they wouldn't budge. They just wanted money" explains the Danish anesteciatist.
He tried to call the tourist police but the guards didn't allow him to. In stead he managed to negotiate the amount down to 2000 Baht. "I was then allowed to leave. Thas was the most important'
See the travel warnng on the ministry of foreign affair's website (external link).
He has since tried to protect himself, when he visit Thailand, and is very careful about access to money, if it should go wrong again. And he do understand why these things happen.
"They are dead poor and must daily watch rich tourists. Obvisouly it makes something click in some people"
Tourists must pay at the Airport
Georgesen was on the other hand very surprised to hear that similar events have taken place at the Bangkok International Airport where visitors from several countries have been extorted large amounts to avoid prison, after being accused of shoplifting. "It is food for thought. It's the main portal to Thailand" he says, and worries that it will affect the Thai tourist industry, which is already in decline.
Edited by ASIC, 2009-07-23 12:45:43.
Posted 2009-07-23 12:56:12
Google translation of the article mentioned above in the Danish Plitiken newspaper of 21 Juli 2009
http://www.thaivisa....ticle755129.ece
Cigarette costing Dane giant fine
Travel
Nils Georgsen do not smoke. Yet he was accused of throwing a cigarette in Bangkok and charged £ 1,500 on the spot.
By Søren Astrup Print Send
Tourists should be careful in Thailand, where they risk being afpressede of fictional wrongdoing. Arkivfoto from the beach in Phuket. - Photo: DAVID LONGSTREATH / AP - View large image
"I was allowed to go. This is the most important.
It finds drug nurse Nils Georgsen from Copenhagen, who warns against being required to pay cash by Thai officials.
The warning comes at the same time, several countries will examine the tourists wrongly accused of shoplifting in Bang Kok airport - after which they must pay large sums to be allowed to escape from the country.
READ Danish tourist victim of serious fraud in Bangkok
For Georgsen went awry when he during a trip to Thailand's capital, waiting for a train at Siam station at the city's højbane, Skytrain.
"I knew peace and no danger. Then came a railway guard and pointed at a cigarette on the platform ", explains Nils Georgsen. Smoking is forbidden on the station. But although the Danish tourist told that he does not smoke - and that he had never done it - so he was gelejdet in to watch the office and surrounded by station officers.
Should the penalty spot
They demanded money. The requirement was for 10,000 baht (about 1,500 dollars).
"It was not something to joke with. They were very threatening. I tried to explain that I do not smoke. But things had been determined: They had money, "said the Copenhagen drug nurse.
NOTE If you have been threatened to return their money?
He tried to get called the tourist police, but was not allowed by station staff. Instead, he negotiated 'fine' down to 2000 baht (about 300 dollars).
'So I got permission to go. That was the key, "says Nils Georgsen to politiken.dk.
SEE ALSO Foreign Office travel advice for Thailand (external link)
He has since hedging when he visits the country and are very careful to have access to money if it goes wrong again.
And he understands the circumstances that trigger such problems as those he met that afternoon at Siam station.
"They are destitute and see all the rich tourists come. It is clear that it does something about humans, "he said.
Tourists have to pay expensive airport
But will it surprise him that similar incidents may even take place in Bang Kok International Airport, where visitors from several countries have experienced being asked for large sums to avoid prison after being accused of shoplifting.
"It is worrying. It is a gateway to Thailand, "he said, and fear it may help to frame the country's tourism industry, already hit by recession
Posted 2009-07-23 12:58:13
 ASIC, on 2009-07-23 12:44:17, said:
Thai governement employees.
Only thing I would pick up on here is Sky train security guards are not goverment employees, stand to be corrected but are not all the security guards employed by a private company, and a well known private company at that ??
Nothing else in this article suprises me...could it happen..yes...does it happen....most likely,
At times in Thailand dont know who annoys me more the BiB or the renta-cops (BiB wannabes)
What I don know is..... one of these days, a renta cop is going to eat a whistle after I shove it down his throat... 
Posted 2009-07-23 12:58:42
Sounds more plausible that Mr Georgesen is scamming his local press - I don't buy this story at all.
Posted 2009-07-23 13:04:41
SoftWater, on 2009-07-23 12:58:42, said: Sounds more plausible that Mr Georgesen is scamming his local press - I don't buy this story at all.
Why he should do that??
Posted 2009-07-23 13:06:18
I'm not trying to pump my chest up here....BUT.....are we talking about the same scrawney pidgeon chested guards that I always see at the sky train platform?
I can just see it now:
THEM: "Your coming with us"
Me: " Is that right?  "
Come on, get real 
Posted 2009-07-23 13:07:21
One mistake in the article is stating THB 10,000 equaling $1500....should read around $ 280......if THB 10,000 equaled $1500, they certainly wouldnt have any tourists or farangs living in Thailand...
Posted 2009-07-23 13:07:51
angiud, on 2009-07-23 13:04:41, said: SoftWater, on 2009-07-23 12:58:42, said: Sounds more plausible that Mr Georgesen is scamming his local press - I don't buy this story at all.
Why he should do that??
Sounds to me they should start this practice at Nana BTS station, not a week goes by that I don't see some MENA citizen lighting up on or near the platform.
Posted 2009-07-23 13:07:54
I set up our Asia Head Office in Bangkok last year, employing local people and bringing in FDI .... but its beginning to look like this is not the ideal location, especially after the airport issues (blockade and King Power scam) and now the Sky Train. If this type of thing ever happened to my family or my local team - I'd shift the head office to another country. Like most businesses - we need stability, safety and good transport links .... and if we don't get all three. we'll move.
Posted 2009-07-23 13:09:03
angiud, on 2009-07-23 13:04:41, said: SoftWater, on 2009-07-23 12:58:42, said: Sounds more plausible that Mr Georgesen is scamming his local press - I don't buy this story at all.
Why he should do that??
Are you familiar with Western tabloid press? People make up all sorts of rubbish just to get their "15 minutes of fame" (= attention) or to get paid for their story.
Thailand is an easy-mark right now - what's the betting the next story will be someone claiming the flight crew of a Thai Air plane forced someone into a toilet at 30,000 feet and relieved them of 10,000 baht for not wearing their seat belt....
Posted 2009-07-23 13:09:43
Familyonthemove, on 2009-07-23 13:07:54, said: I set up our Asia Head Office in Bangkok last year, employing local people and bringing in FDI .... but its beginning to look like this is not the ideal location, especially after the airport issues (blockade and King Power scam) and now the Sky Train. If this type of thing ever happened to my family or my local team - I'd shift the head office to another country. Like most businesses - we need stability, safety and good transport links .... and if we don't get all three. we'll move.
While I agree with everything you say, perhaps you should voice your concern to the letters section of a newspaper, here you are preaching to the conformed. 
Posted 2009-07-23 13:13:01
SoftWater, on 2009-07-23 12:58:42, said: Sounds more plausible that Mr Georgesen is scamming his local press - I don't buy this story at all.
So, this guy is a liar and Thai authorities don't lie?. Yeah right!
Posted 2009-07-23 13:13:09
SoftWater, on 2009-07-23 06:58:42, said: Sounds more plausible that Mr Georgesen is scamming his local press - I don't buy this story at all.
We have all seen the signs. No smoking with a value attached to it.
I find it wholly plausible that a bunch of busybody guards would force you to pay up without bothering to notice that the person didn't have a packet of cigarettes on them. Which then does beg the question, who actually issues and collects the fine? Is the private company allowed to do it, or being an offence to smoke in public places, presumably a copper has to be involved.
These stories are becoming more frequent, but until the system realises that the burden of proof lies with the accuser, they will continue. Random finger pointing and intimidation to extort cash from farang was never out of fashion, but it would appear to be on the increase.
Posted 2009-07-23 13:13:19
Familyonthemove, on 2009-07-23 13:07:54, said: I set up our Asia Head Office in Bangkok last year, employing local people and bringing in FDI .... but its beginning to look like this is not the ideal location, especially after the airport issues (blockade and King Power scam) and now the Sky Train. If this type of thing ever happened to my family or my local team - I'd shift the head office to another country. Like most businesses - we need stability, safety and good transport links .... and if we don't get all three. we'll move.
I'm left wondering why you bothered setting up here in the first place anyway......you musnt of been a thai visa member at that stage
Posted 2009-07-23 13:18:42
SoftWater, on 2009-07-23 13:09:03, said: angiud, on 2009-07-23 13:04:41, said: SoftWater, on 2009-07-23 12:58:42, said: Sounds more plausible that Mr Georgesen is scamming his local press - I don't buy this story at all.
Why he should do that??
Are you familiar with Western tabloid press? People make up all sorts of rubbish just to get their "15 minutes of fame" (= attention) or to get paid for their story.
Thailand is an easy-mark right now - what's the betting the next story will be someone claiming the flight crew of a Thai Air plane forced someone into a toilet at 30,000 feet and relieved them of 10,000 baht for not wearing their seat belt....
Now look what you've done . You have just given some flight assistant a great idea.
Oh and about Thailand being a mark right now. It is totally justified and well overdue.
Are you equally as vociferous and supportive of westeners who get scammed, mugged, robbed, assulted raped or murdered?
Posted 2009-07-23 13:19:49
SoftWater, on 2009-07-22 22:58:42, said: Sounds more plausible that Mr Georgesen is scamming his local press - I don't buy this story at all.
I have to agree with SoftWater here. I've been taking the Skytrain regularly since it was built and have always found the securtity guards to be polite, professional and helpful, nothing like the local police. I have no proof that Mr. Georgesen is stretching the truth but it certainly seems out of character from what I have seen of these security guards in the past.
Posted 2009-07-23 13:20:47
Thai at Heart, on 2009-07-23 06:13:09, said: SoftWater, on 2009-07-23 06:58:42, said: Sounds more plausible that Mr Georgesen is scamming his local press - I don't buy this story at all.
We have all seen the signs. No smoking with a value attached to it.
I find it wholly plausible that a bunch of busybody guards would force you to pay up without bothering to notice that the person didn't have a packet of cigarettes on them. Which then does beg the question, who actually issues and collects the fine? Is the private company allowed to do it, or being an offence to smoke in public places, presumably a copper has to be involved.
These stories are becoming more frequent, but until the system realises that the burden of proof lies with the accuser, they will continue. Random finger pointing and intimidation to extort cash from farang was never out of fashion, but it would appear to be on the increase.
I'm getting the sense that the government is losing control and has lost much of its authority and its ability to impose its authority and all kinds of people are feeling the freedom to be "entrepreneurial"
Posted 2009-07-23 13:21:30
SoftWater, on 2009-07-23 13:09:03, said: angiud, on 2009-07-23 13:04:41, said: SoftWater, on 2009-07-23 12:58:42, said: Sounds more plausible that Mr Georgesen is scamming his local press - I don't buy this story at all.
Why he should do that??
Are you familiar with Western tabloid press? People make up all sorts of rubbish just to get their "15 minutes of fame" (= attention) or to get paid for their story.
Thailand is an easy-mark right now - what's the betting the next story will be someone claiming the flight crew of a Thai Air plane forced someone into a toilet at 30,000 feet and relieved them of 10,000 baht for not wearing their seat belt....
Actually, I wouldnt mind being forced into the bathroom on the plane by a couple of the flight attendants Ive seen  .....theres a name for that you know
Posted 2009-07-23 13:25:40
Quote the flight crew of a Thai Air plane forced someone into a toilet at 30,000 feet
Wow, my secret wet dream 
Posted 2009-07-23 13:28:32
barky, on 2009-07-23 13:13:01, said: So, this guy is a liar and Thai authorities don't lie?. Yeah right!
What ''lie' and what 'Thai authorities' are you talking about? Skytrain 'guards' are not 'Thai authorities', and as far as I can tell from the OP, nobody has asked BTS to comment on this case, so what 'lie' are you referring to? The whole thing is totally uncorrobarated - just one guy back in the safety of Denmark telling a story and getting his name in the paper. Believe it if you want - but if you use the BTS regularly at Siam Square you'll realise how unlikely this is. For one thing, the platform guards are usually on their own, they don't go around in big gangs; secondly, BTS staff are, on the whole, pretty polite and professional. Thirdly, how do you know this guy wasn't being a drunken arsehol_e, got taken to the guard room, then made up this little story instead? Fourthly, since the guards are not police, the only authority they have is to remove him from the station. Fifthly, why didn't he go and report it as soon as he was out of the guardroom to, say, the station manager, the ticket office, a cop on the street, his embassy, oh come on, if this was real..what would you do?
Like I said, I aint buying it. I can't remember what there is in the way of CCTV at Siam, but that's the only way I'd believe a tale like this.
Posted 2009-07-23 13:31:28
Familyonthemove, on 2009-07-23 13:07:54, said: Like most businesses - we need stability, safety and good transport links .... and if we don't get all three. we'll move.
What the h*ll made you set up in BKK then... ...Unless you consider changing goverments every 2 years, stable......Safety....dont you read the news papers ?.....good transport...with the exception of the skytrain and underground...transport links suck....
To get the 3 you require...should have set up in Singapore
Posted 2009-07-23 13:32:10
Oh great...another thing to look out for..
dont stand near ciggy butts while on BTS..
maybe an announcement on speakers needed..
"please mind your butt while standing on platform"
Posted 2009-07-23 13:33:24
Whether true or not, I think the Golden-rule has to be, never voluntarily accompany the Security Guard or Police to any non-public area.
I had an incident 6 years ago at Siam Discovery where a Thai female walked into me, I responded in Thai 'Not Polite’. She hit me with her umbrella and I kicked her (she looked like and behaved like a 'high-class' prostitute, wear sun-glasses). I made the mistake of going with the Security Guards to the basement but refused to negotiate anything (their English wasn’t good and I pretended not to understand them or to be able to understand Thai).
I ended up at the Police Station behind MBK. The Police negotiated THB4,000 and asked if I agreed. I said “NO, I want THB10,000”; took them a few seconds to realize I was serious. “No, you must pay the Lady”. “If the esan wants money she can go earn it at Nana Plaza”
I didn’t have my passport and when they realized I wasn’t giving the bitc_ anything they decided to hand me over to Immigration. I called my ex and he went to my apartment, retrieved my passport and came to the Police Station. The story so ends.
I think in my case cos I didn’t try to reason with them or try to engage in negotiations or maybe cos I didn’t have my passport with me so they couldn’t hold onto it, or my demeanour, or cos the prostitute was behaving like she was high-so, or …. But I will never accompany Security Guards any where again
Posted 2009-07-23 13:49:15
At National Stadium, outside on the overhead walks near the Tokyo department store entrance, police regularly set up a cigarette sting there. It is the police, it is not inside the BTS turnstyles. On the steps and the cross overs above Sukhumvit, there is no signage until you get to the central platform where no smoking is clearly posted, but no ashtrays available. Since I knew this scam, my friend and I stopped, put out the cigarettes and pocketed them. We were stopped in the same manner described by this article and 10,000 baht fine each for littering. When we produced the cigarette butts, there were grins all around and we were released.
From my experience, this story is entirely plausible. And thanks Thai Visa, it was here that I learned about this scam and how to protect myself.
Posted 2009-07-23 13:57:37
xbusman, on 2009-07-23 13:49:15, said: At National Stadium, outside on the overhead walks near the Tokyo department store entrance, police regularly set up a cigarette sting there. It is the police, it is not inside the BTS turnstyles. On the steps and the cross overs above Sukhumvit, there is no signage until you get to the central platform where no smoking is clearly posted, but no ashtrays available. Since I knew this scam, my friend and I stopped, put out the cigarettes and pocketed them. We were stopped in the same manner described by this article and 10,000 baht fine each for littering. When we produced the cigarette butts, there were grins all around and we were released.
From my experience, this story is entirely plausible. And thanks Thai Visa, it was here that I learned about this scam and how to protect myself.
Glad we could be of service to you. Please forward your payment to 'Neverdie' C/- Thai Visa, make sure you cross the cheque not negotiable, you know george . If payment isnt made with 14 days, you may be taken hostage at HQ and kept until a large ransom is met
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