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[peecee]

ovenman, on 2009-07-26 12:34:03, said:

Siamfan, on 2009-07-26 11:29:29, said:

Why not use the bad times now, reinstall the old idea, and sell houses and land to foreigners like Malaysia's Home away from home program. This would make life so much easier for so many here, and the Elite system would survive and work!

Perhaps because Thailand does not now nor ever has had any interest in selling even one square waa of its land to foreigners.

It is their mind set; Thai's believe that they are loosing their land to farang's. They cannot see the financial gain's for their own people and seem to want to remain an insular country!
The government will continue to pass law's that bite the hand's that feed them until everyone has moved to Malaya, I wouldn't be suprised if Burma offer's land to falang's before Thailand.

[jfchandler]

I like the ideas Chunkton put forward above...even better than my blanket buy a home and get a visa approach. Offering different tiers with different elements and prices as he suggested would even work better. And I really like the additional element listed below. Having something like that, as opposed to the Tourist Police, would be a blessed relief..if the did it right....

Those are things I and others would pay for...

Chunkton, on 2009-07-26 13:22:43, said:

Need more, add a special hot line to call if ever in trouble with the police to contact a person with the authority to sort out the problem fairly and quickly, not dodging the law, just guaranteeing impartiality.

[ozzieman05]

Seems the elite card is easy to fix
Change the name to  "Faramnfg Card"

Pay $1000 US for a 5 year visa. renewable at its expiry

I would buy shares in this company as it would be flooded with applicant and very little over heads

[sibeymai]

sibeymai, on 2009-07-26 13:55:56, said:

Some golf courses were paid as much as 20 million baht in advance ?

Might we find the name "Alpine" among them ? And how many times ?

I forgot to mention Thaksin was president of the Thai Golf Association and no doubt has lots of buddies who own golf courses.

"Conflict of interest" must have a different meaning in Thailand to other countries.

[fred007]

[quote name='webfact' date='2009-07-26 10:53:40' post='2897698']
I remember when this "Elite program" was introduced.
Many many people (including members of this forum) voiced their strong concern that this "scheme" might backfire one day!

The time has come the money has gone! TiT !!!
[/quote           Its seems everything in Thailand backfires sooner or later....

[steveromagnino]

Scott, on 2009-07-26 14:57:39, said:

I'll leave up to the people with a background in economics and decent math skills to decide whether or not the card could have succeded.  

I do, however, believe it was a part of a Thaksin Grand Plan regarding tourism.  He was hel_l bent on getting rid of the backpackers--at least in large numbers.  He was trying to entice the upper end tourists.  To that end, lots of things needed to change, and he was in the process of changing them.  

As he went about setting up his dynasty, he made one crucial mistake.  He forgot that he could get ousted.  

Now the current gov't has the plan of making it difficult for long-stayers on tourist visa, but no plan to replace them with higher end tourists.  

Bit of a problem for all concerned.

The Elite scheme was simply a nice way to easily skim money.  From the 150m baht ad campaign money that went missing, to the kids of the rich TRT elite who worked for the scheme; from the golf courses and service coincidentally owned by TRT families now virtually gauranteed a customer base, to the ability to give away 1m baht memberships to key decision makers such as media magnates, friends, colleagues and PR consultants.

If anyone ever wanted to know how TRT worked, take a good look at this scheme.

Every single initiative of TRT BAR NONE worked this exact same way.  Great short term, possibly even decent long term benefits if done right...but none of the initiatives were done to be done right, just done to skim.

[cdnvic]

beerchang, on 2009-07-26 13:36:42, said:

Oh my word! I'm having trouble typing for laughing so much! One in the eye for egotistical "look at me and my wealth everybody" people. I feel for ya guys! A fool and his money etc etc. I absolutely love this country to bits. AMAZING THAILAND! Plus I don't need a discount to play golf, I can afford to.   

Within the above nose thumbing lies much of the truth in why this plan failed. The "wealthy elite" who were targeted as the main market don't have trouble buying influence as it is and therefor don't need a card. They can also afford the green fees, as its often a write off anyway, and they aren't the least bit impressed by a BMW.

They also didn't get wealthy by not being able to spot a scam.

[robint]

   Flangs getting a refund in LOS, are you 'aving a laugh         

Anyone who fell for that scam - what can i say.

Of course the whole 5 year visa thing was quickly sabotaged by the old guard

[Orac]

hoozer, on 2009-07-26 14:11:30, said:

Quote

Your post has no relation to reality - you should have read the story. Only 200 (out of 2500+/-) members used the 5-year visa scheme.

I suspect it is actually YOUR post which has no relation to reality.  You should not believe everything you read

The article states that only 200 people applied for RENEWAL of the 5 year visa which suggests they previously had the 5 year visa so I assume these are the people who joined in the first year as the people who joined after this would not need to renew yet.  The article also states that 139 memberships were sold in the first year which seems to contradict an earlier statement that 400 were sold in the first 4 months.

Edited by Orac, 2009-07-26 16:49:02.

[livinthailandos]

as someone who works and runs a business in thailand and as for many members and thai visa predicted this was never going to work. If I can make money from providing value to my customers, without resorting to banana republic tactics I'll do fine and even now I'm doing fine. I can't possible understand why try to aim for only high class customers there a very small majority market. I'm all about customers of every end, I've even given a good deal to the back packer all the way to the upper class. I swear thailand is just silly. The back packer of today could easily be the middle to upper class customer in the future.

[TheWalkingMan]

livinthailandos, on 2009-07-26 19:37:53, said:

...The back packer of today could easily be the middle to upper class customer in the future.

So true, so very true.



TheWalkingMan

Like my tag line says.... "Logic is an enemy."

[Ga-gai]

Who's the biggest idiot?
-The idiot or the ones that follows the idiot?

Well, well... If it sounds to good to be true, it's probably not true.

Edited by Ga-gai, 2009-07-26 18:26:23.

[Alboy301]

venturalaw, on 2009-07-26 14:03:16, said:

hardy1943, on 2009-07-26 10:44:41, said:

barry, on 2009-07-26 10:33:23, said:

i agree with groucho marx:

i would never join a club that would have someone like me

for a member

I agree these are the rich and greedy, to bad they did not get more to take their money.
Feel Sorry for them HE-LL NO

It always makes so much sense to condemn the wealthy for being wealthy. Why not go work for a poor person - oh, wait a minute - poor people don't hire people to work for them. Some poor just complain about the success of the wealthy. Really stupid!

I couldn't agree more with your comment venturalaw. There's nothing worse than a bitter little person who laughs at others misfortune because they have failed miserably in their own life. Personally, I feel that people were slightly foolish to invest in such a scheme. IMO how could anyone put such trust in Thai authorities with goalposts constantly moving?

However, I fail to see how investing money u can afford to gain extra convenience is greedy. What u spend is relative to what u earn. Does that mean that when I fly Business class for extra comfort I am being greedy? If I stay in a five star hotel rather than a Khaosarn Road doss-house, does that make me greedy too?

What a nasty little mind some people have.

[john b good]

dkstoney, on 2009-07-26 10:09:53, said:

Quote

If it does close, it risks having to pay back 2.5 billion baht to present members and the prospects of lawsuits if it cannot fulfil its commitments.

Let's hope so.

Are you kidding ??

1) they will not refund membership fees, and
2) have you ever taken anything to court in Thailand,

If you are gonna seek a court decision to order a refund most will be dead and buried before it ever come about.

The money has gone.

[jfchandler]

Nice to know that the court system of civil justice is alive and well in Thailand...  

[Pooklook]

george, on 2009-07-26 09:31:51, said:

The total memberships equate to 2.5 billion baht in revenue, which has not all been declared in the company's annual financial statements. By law, Thai companies are permitted to spread income figures over a 10 year period, a practice which is stated in TPC's annual report (see graphic)

Mr Udom admitted that the company has been plagued with transparency problems, and some of its spending is now subject to investigation by the Office of the Auditor General.

The membership contract carries a clause that the company "reserves the right to change, revise, or withdraw the service without advance notice".

2.5 billion baht in revenue, which has not all been declared

plagued with transparency problems

change, revise, or withdraw the service without advance notice

[annielaurent]

brommers, on 2009-07-26 04:57:47, said:

The scheme was an ill judged & naive concept from the beginning, and was run by people who had no competence in a highly complex product discipline. Having designed & run such products for global airlines and other in the travel industry, and others, I can see no way that Elite can be turned into a viable business.

The core issue is that there is no consumer demand for such a product with a cost/benefit offer that is so lacking in value. The recommendation by Tammasart University is laughable in it's naivety, but then what would one expect from a study conducted by such an organisation.

Thailand has deep problems to solve in terms of tourism and the national airline. Elite is nothing more than a costly and time consuming minor side issue that needs to be dealt with once and for all. The country could recoup much more goodwill by simply returning the million baht fee to each member, and walk away from an initially unsustainable concept. Then it can focus on dealing with the intense global challenge of refurbishing a badly tarnished reputation and an industry that needs to deal with the fact that Thailand been sidelined by more attractive destinations.

Thailand has had many deep problems which it has ignored for years.  This was possible while tourism was high and everyone believed in the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow on the beach.  The regulations on buying property and home/apartment have always been torturous, a real haven for scam artists.  So the government turns out to be one of the best scam artists with this "Elite" card!

Now with tourism down 49% in 2009 and no better prospects for 2010, you are quite right, it is past time to "refurbish a badly tarnished reputations......Thailand has been sideline by more attractive destinations".  One of the greatest problems is that TAT and most of the governments as well as real estate agents believe their own hype!  With many projects put on hold in this economic crisis we are way past the 100% sellout in one month phase of villa and condo sales.  One of the best ways to start to attract retirees, middle class, and expats as well as investors is for Thai banks to start to offer mortgages/loans on purchases of property/homes.  And I am not just talking about the numbered few offered through Bangkok Bank via its Singapore office.

Mauritius, Seychelles, Maldives and most of the Caribbean Isles offer mortgages or loans to non-citizens for the purchase of property.  They all have attractive "schemes" ranging from no income tax, no property tax, duty free import of two cars and household goods within one year, no inheritance tax, etc.  And they all are very transparent with the government banks guaranteeing the projects against default by the developers! These other islands appear to have less crime and while Thailand was so busy closing airports and making headlines to scare tourists and retirees away, the infrastructure on these isles have improved immensely.  Unless you want only fully walled estates with draw bridges to protect the elite, it is about time to make owning here both legal and financially possible for most of us!

[norwayeagle]

These 4 pages remind me of the two ducklings:«There were two ducks in a pond. One said:"Quack." The other one said: "I was going to say that!"» Quack

[givenall]

Loaded, on 2009-07-26 09:37:08, said:

They never protected the downside.

Nobody considered what would happen if they didn't meet sales targets. Now, will there be a refund to the card holders (2,570 times 1,000,000 baht) or just close shop and tell customers nothing. Either way, a scandalous scam from beginning to end.

Don’t worry too much these people can afford to lose these money. Same as what happened in the stock market

[nakachalet]

for those farangs who so very much desire to own chanods and perhaps houses in the kingdom of thailand

my friends let's plan ahead, shall we? perhaps, a generation ahead....

if we like and love thailand so very deeply, surely our diverse human ingenuities will tell us that perhaps we or our generation is quite definitely not able to legally own chanods and buildings in our life time.... right?

but who is to say that our thailand born boys and girls could not....? a slight twist.... slightly in our favour....?

however, the giant questions is, are we disciplined enough during our life time to prepare and save for our thailand born children, so they can buy chanods and houses in their own thai names....? so as we as the older generation perhaps can standup and boast about our ultimate goals and objectives being accomplished.... and perhaps seeing all these happening in our life time as well....

well, it is just an interesting thought inspired by the beautiful sunset (2009-07-2 sunday 18:00) along the most enchanting andaman coastal beach....

subsequently and perhaps whimsically as well....

that one day, our own thai children might be able to call some of these coastal areas--their own with our family names appearing on the chanod, legally.... lol

Edited by nakachalet, 2009-07-26 19:27:07.

[cyb]

Thailand Elite was doomed to failure from the start,  Why?
Thaksin started it and there is no chance of anyone getting a refund,  If you think there is a chance.  All i can say is wakeup,  You must be asleep cos your dreaming.

Edited by cyb, 2009-07-26 19:47:01.

[sassienie]

barry, on 2009-07-26 10:33:23, said:

i agree with groucho marx:

i would never join a club that would have someone like me

for a member

No, that was Woody Allen`s quote from the film, Annie Hall.

And as for those who purchased the elite card, I`ll quote the title of the 1942 film starring Elizabeth Taylor: There`s one born every minute.

Edited by sassienie, 2009-07-26 20:44:05.

[Nemo.]

Loaded, on 2009-07-26 10:37:08, said:

They never protected the downside.

Nobody considered what would happen if they didn't meet sales targets. Now, will there be a refund to the card holders (2,570 times 1,000,000 baht) or just close shop and tell customers nothing. Either way, a scandalous scam from beginning to end.

This scheme was the typical Asian business plan

- no risk management

- business plan based on wildly optimistic forecasts (I remember the one for KLs (Malaysia) monorail business plan - if every train run 34 hours to full capacity the break even point number of passengers couldn't be reached lol)

- corruption (the IT system was an obvious examle of skimming most of the cash via corruption)

- poor implementation

- poor finnancial control and management


It is the reason why only family run businesses really succeed in Asia (even quoted companies are ususally run by a family mafia)

[Dougie]

Firstly the Thaksin Era started this crap to inject foreign capital into Thailand just part of another corrupt scheme in Thailand to suck cash out of foreigners. As well I find it interesting that these Elite card holders were not checked out for criminal records back in their home countries as this is a problem for Immigration Thailand. There are several Elite card members that are of criminal nature. So when the question is raised weather they should scrap the Thai Elite Card/Program/Scheme the answer is yes as well No one should be given back their money as many of them used this 1 Million Baht they put up as their payoff to stay in Thailand through a loophole. I wonder when Thaksin thought of this idea if he knew that he was collecting black money and the people that would join this kind of club or group or scam are going to be using it as their shield.  Thaksin thanks again for your great scam that you are part of the problem not the solution.

[Dougie]

Does this mean that Thaksin and Thai Tourisim Authority of Thailand and Immigration Thailand Could be facing future charges of engaging Tourists or long stay farang in a scam for them to stay long time and be protected by Thailand by paying 1 Million Baht. What is Immigrations role in this if any? I assume that this was the works of Thaksin and some corrupt farang with money I am sure this was just an oversight by Thai Immigration because they are usually very observant and strict as well as Thai Police because they do not like to take money derrived from drug money