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[MUYTHAI]

DickFarang, on 2009-08-04 00:36:08, said:

In the Western World there is always more concern for criminals than for their victims.

Not true in the USA...Dick.

[MUYTHAI]

ukrules, on 2009-08-03 21:54:58, said:

barry51, on 2009-08-03 20:25:11, said:

Prisoners are not helpless minorities. They have chosen to break the laws of the people and rightly so have no say in what happens to them. The majority of prisoners are young men and therefore should be last on the list to receive medicine for swine flu.

They are helpless in the respect that their ability to help themselves in this situation has been taken away, there is no denying that.

What they did to end up in their current predicament is largely irrelevant to this argument. They have been sentenced to a period of confinement, not death by disease, infection and lack of proper treatment.

Regarding young men being last in line for treatment, I fail to see why this should be the case, do you have something against young men ? Is this some chivalrous attitude from days long gone which you would like to force onto other people or are you just misinformed about the ages of the people whom this disease is killing ?

I'm going to presume here that you are not in the group of 'young men' who should be last in line for treatment, correct me if I'm wrong.

If it progresses in a similar manner to that of the 1918 H1N1 Swine Flu pandemic it will be the young people with good healthy immune systems who will be most at risk due to the 'Cytokine Storm' reaction which is thought to have killed many of the young and otherwise healthy victims back then.

This particular flu appears to be hospitalising and killing a disproportionately larger number of young healthy people than other recent flu epidemics.

Stated well. Thanks for the logical thinking.

[tropo]

thaibkk, on 2009-08-03 18:16:46, said:

the CIA should have started their virus in a mexican prison and not pig farm... would be nice if jails all over the world would be clensed from the worst of the worst (that is cought and convicted)...

It's people like you who are the worst of the worst.

Cold, heartless ..... (forum rules prohibit any further appropriate adjectives)

[tropo]

MUYTHAI, on 2009-08-04 03:58:08, said:

barry51, on 2009-08-03 21:25:11, said:

"You can judge a people by the way in which they treat their helpless minorities, those who have no say in what happens to them and who are unable through various circumstances to help themselves. In this case I'm referring to prisoners, refugees and the very poor."

Prisoners are not helpless minorities. They have chosen to break the laws of the people and rightly so have no say in what happens to them. The majority of prisoners are young men and therefore should be last on the list to receive medicine for swine flu.

Obviously you are very nieve in general and about Asian countries, their legal systems, and law enforcement personel.  You must not know much about Thailand and its corruption.  Many innocent people are in prison.  Many innocent people not able to pay "big" tea money are in prison.  Many guilty people have paid their way out of a prison stay.  There have been many people on death row in the USA who were luckily found to be innocent before they were put to death.  I had a friend spend 5 years in a California prison for a rape he did not commit.  If innocent people can be locked up in a country with one of the best legal systems in the world (like the USA), what do you think can happen in Thailand? A friend of mine was set up in Laos on a bogus drug charge and was taken on a 2 hour trip in the middle of the night into the rainforest while being held in the back of a large military truck with about 8 law enforcement / military people. A trial was held in the forest for my friend and his friend. They were "found guilty" and were told the sentence was death.  After long discussions, my friend convinced the officers that they could pay them to ensure their freedom. My friend's friend was released and drove back to town where he was able to withdraw money from a bank. He then came back to the trial area and paid the law enforcement / military officers the money. They were then released.  I have spent much time in many Asian countries and studied them for many years.  I suggest you do the same before you and the few others on this thread make stupid comments such as "let them die in prison" ... "they are guily and deserve to die prison."  Why do you people make ignorant "blanket" statements.  Are you familiar with and studied every case of every prisoner in the prison system in LOS? I think not! Keep your ignorant comments to yourself.  Hope for yourself you are never charged with a crime you did not commit in SE Asia...or you might die in an Asian prison while crying for your mommy to help you.  Asian prisons are not nice like a Canadian prison.  Asian prisons are like a hel_l.

Even if the prisoners are guilty, they still have the right to be kept healthy while they serve out their sentences. They are people, not animals.

[nakachalet]

muythai

i believe your personal experiences, muythai. just like mr s who posted earlier that he was found by the thai court to be innocent of all the charges... but that was after 5 months in thai prison. he was finally released but without compensation at all.  yes, 5 months in thai prison even when he did not commit the alleged crime....

muythai, you were right that there are still many innocent persons being kept in prisons until proven innocent, not until  proven guilty.... i agree with you wholeheartedly.

that being said, there are others from very different backgrounds reading and posting in thaivisa, they are voicing their opinions from their personal experiences as well, which in reality, might or might not be in the majority nor in the mainstream of things, but then again--those are their personal opinions which they also have the equal rights, just like us and everyone else, to voice them according to what they deem fit.... it is just like all the accused should have their days in court before someone brands any of them guilty as the devils....

sometimes, i personally find it very difficult to agree with some of the posters' comments, and i so very much wanted to scream to the contrary....  

but then i begin to ask myself, if i as a person do not accept their rights to say what they think.... then do i personally have any more rights than they do--to say what i think.... don't you agree, muythai?

[ree2512]

[/quote]

Even if the prisoners are guilty, they still have the right to be kept healthy while they serve out their sentences. They are people, not animals.
[/quote]

Very true...i totally agree, they are all still people maybe someone's husband,wife, father, mother, sister or brother.......while some of them may have done very bad things is dying of swine flu not an easy way out for them, im sure staying in that prison is a lot lot worse!

[Bisto]

maybe swine flu is the least of your worries

Thousands of people have been placed in quarantine in north-western China after a man died of pneumonic plague.

Chinese authorities say the man who died was a 32-year-old herdsman from a sparsely populated area mostly inhabited by Tibetans.

Most of the other 11 people infected with the disease are relatives of the dead man.

The local government has not yet said when the man died but it has sealed off the town where the outbreak occurred.

It says there are enough supplies to feed the 10,000 or so people who live in the town of Ziketan, near Xinghai in Qinghai province, during the quarantine period.

Pneumonic plague is a virulent form of the disease that attacks the lungs. It can spread from person to person, or from animals to people.

Initial symptoms include fever, headache and shortness of breath.

To reduce the chances of death, anyone infected needs to receive treatment within 24 hours of the first symptoms.

[k1w1]

Lots of trolls commenting on this thread.

I just feel sorry for anyone trapped in a thai prison who has to deal with h1n1. I had it and it was a horrible experience. At least I had a warm bed, fresh warm water and access to drugs. Although I had a bad reaction to the Tamiflu so that may not help everyone even if they can get it. I can't think of much worse than going through the worst part of this flu in Bang Kwang. It would probably finish me psychologically. I can only imagine what they are going through with the outbreak.

[prinzregent]

zzaa09, on 2009-08-03 20:07:37, said:

thaibkk, on 2009-08-03 18:16:46, said:

the CIA should have started their virus in a mexican prison and not pig farm... would be nice if jails all over the world would be clensed from the worst of the worst (that is cought and convicted)...

Thailand ready with 10% of the population... New world order also wants to decimate the world populating by 90% ...


co-insidence ?

Same as it ever was.....

Many innocent people not able to pay "big" tea money are in prison.

FALANG = SATANG

we are nothing but a walking ATM to the Thais

[thairay]

thaibkk, on 2009-08-03 18:16:46, said:

the CIA should have started their virus in a mexican prison and not pig farm... would be nice if jails all over the world would be clensed from the worst of the worst (that is cought and convicted)...

Thailand ready with 10% of the population... New world order also wants to decimate the world populating by 90% ...


co-insidence ?

if your education led to your spelling i an not shocked by your beliefs.

[Scott]

Earlier someone commented about prisoners having access to email.  I believe the OP states the prisoner has 'written'.  It doesn't say he emailed it.  Most likely it was given to someone during a visit who then emailed it.  

The situation with disease in prisons, especially infections diseases, is that these places are breeding grounds for some nasty things.  It is in the best interest of the entire public that prisoners receive prompt medical attention and that all reasonable efforts to control infectious diseases be done.

[stkyricesf]

Gee one news report on an anglo and all of a sudden everyone is concerned about condtions in thai prisons and
start whinning.  Come on guys get a life, everyone knew what the conditions were before, that's why you don't
want to go to prison.  Play with fire and sooner or later you will get burned.

[hhiser]

rueben, on 2009-08-03 20:03:01, said:

ukrules, on 2009-08-03 20:27:14, said:

DutchPAD, on 2009-08-03 19:15:38, said:

Sure, other countries like UK, US of aids and hundreds more torture and kill people for fun, none of the guy's in Bang-Kwan are sitting innocent, tell me, been there done that!! so what the hel_l the heroine they wanted to smuggle could kill, the people they raped, killed, slaugthered, f**k them?? no you chose to get the risk to end up there, the sigh on entering the country warns you that trafficing can cost your life, why would they get help on humanity while our western governments kill in name of GOD???

You can judge a people by the way in which they treat their helpless minorities, those who have no say in what happens to them and who are unable through various circumstances to help themselves. In this case I'm referring to prisoners, refugees and the very poor. I suspect that if a major outbreak happened these aforementioned groups would be left to their own devices without treatment. This appears to be the plan as Thailand appears to be ordering enough anti viral drigs to treat only a small proportion of the population. They mention millions of doses in their press releases, it would be more informative if they report how many 'courses' of tablets they are ordering rather than just the number of tablets. These antivirals require a course of 10 doses per person.

Why would you repost a reply to a post without saying anything at all?

The original post was very pragmatic, people make choices they should accept the consequences stemming from those choices. 

The best rebuttal to this line of thought is to remind ourselves tat we all make mistakes, and thus should be allowed a little bit of leeway. Of course any reputation of the same type of error should be punished severely.

Replying to the reply, I would argue the standard we should use to judge a society is not just how they treat minorities, but how they treat everyone in there jurisdiction. 

[cusanus]

skettios, on 2009-08-03 18:03:14, said:

Swine flu can't get me through my tin-foil hat!

Wake up, Einstein! The swine flu won't do you that much harm, but the vaccine will kill you for sure, a bit slowly perhaps. The 10% that the NWO wishes to save won't include very many who got the vaccination. Better research this issue more carefully. Meanwhile, believe on the Lord Jesus if you really want good medical protection.

[sriracha john]

george, on 2009-08-03 17:24:50, said:

Pandemic A(H1N1) active inside Bang Kwang Central Prison

By John Le Fevre

BANGKOK: -- A British national in Thailand’s infamous Bang Kwang Central Prison has written to the charity Prisoners Abroad asking if it or the British Embassy in Bangkok has plans to pay for the flu treatment drug Tamiflu (also sold under the generic name oseltamivir), for jailed Brits in Thailand.

According to the prisoner, who requested his name not be divulged, as of July 13 two prisoners and one prison guard had died from the pandemic A(H1N1) virus, originally termed swine flu, with at least one other guard at that time “seriously ill” in hospital.

The author says he believes

An unnamed prisoner, without corroboration, is now a source of news AND an "author"??

Edited by sriracha john, 2009-08-04 13:22:51.

[Scott]

The prisoner is named, he just doesn't want his name divulged.

[k1w1]

sriracha john, on 2009-08-04 13:18:14, said:

george, on 2009-08-03 17:24:50, said:

Pandemic A(H1N1) active inside Bang Kwang Central Prison

By John Le Fevre

BANGKOK: -- A British national in Thailand’s infamous Bang Kwang Central Prison has written to the charity Prisoners Abroad asking if it or the British Embassy in Bangkok has plans to pay for the flu treatment drug Tamiflu (also sold under the generic name oseltamivir), for jailed Brits in Thailand.

According to the prisoner, who requested his name not be divulged, as of July 13 two prisoners and one prison guard had died from the pandemic A(H1N1) virus, originally termed swine flu, with at least one other guard at that time “seriously ill” in hospital.

The author says he believes

An unnamed prisoner, without corroboration, is now a source of news AND an "author"??

Isn't there a way to find out if a prisoner has died and especially if a guard has died of swine flu?

Either way it's a horrible addition to the system as there are already a lot of sick people in the prisons as corroborated by innumerous accounts from people who have served time.

Swine flu is incredibly infectious and anyone at risk with a degraded immune system is gonna suffer horribly.

I think this has the potential to really blow up  into a mass die off if the prison authorities are not extreemely vigilant.

With a report of three people dead already this sitiuation is most likely gonna get a lot worse. I give it about a 80% chance of turning into a catastrophe at Bang Kwang.

Now I'm starting to feel sick but not from swine flu, my problem appears to be related to a sudden onset of disgust.

[sriracha john]

k1w1, on 2009-08-04 14:18:43, said:

sriracha john, on 2009-08-04 13:18:14, said:

george, on 2009-08-03 17:24:50, said:

Pandemic A(H1N1) active inside Bang Kwang Central Prison

By John Le Fevre

BANGKOK: -- A British national in Thailand’s infamous Bang Kwang Central Prison has written to the charity Prisoners Abroad asking if it or the British Embassy in Bangkok has plans to pay for the flu treatment drug Tamiflu (also sold under the generic name oseltamivir), for jailed Brits in Thailand.

According to the prisoner, who requested his name not be divulged, as of July 13 two prisoners and one prison guard had died from the pandemic A(H1N1) virus, originally termed swine flu, with at least one other guard at that time “seriously ill” in hospital.

The author says he believes

An unnamed prisoner, without corroboration, is now a source of news AND an "author"??

Isn't there a way to find out if a prisoner has died and especially if a guard has died of swine flu?

Either way it's a horrible addition to the system as there are already a lot of sick people in the prisons as corroborated by innumerous accounts from people who have served time.

Swine flu is incredibly infectious and anyone at risk with a degraded immune system is gonna suffer horribly.

I think this has the potential to really blow up  into a mass die off if the prison authorities are not extreemely vigilant.

With a report of three people dead already this sitiuation is most likely gonna get a lot worse. I give it about a 80% chance of turning into a catastrophe at Bang Kwang.

Now I'm starting to feel sick but not from swine flu, my problem appears to be related to a sudden onset of disgust.

"With a report of three people dead"

To reiterate...
Do we have anything more to go by.... other than the "reporting" by an unnamed prisoner AKA "author" in prison?

Has anything he is alleging been corroborated by anyone who isn't ... say... incarcerated for crime? Ironic if he's in there for perjury, eh?

The only other report I've seen...and this one is actually by a news source (NNT News) other then an imprisoned felon's email... which described a solitary case (non-fatal) of swine flu at the Ayuthaya prison.

Edited by sriracha john, 2009-08-04 14:41:36.

[bapak]

Now I'm starting to feel sick but not from swine flu, my problem appears to be related to a sudden onset of disgust.
[/quote]

I am with you, K1K1.. Just where do some of these respondents come from?

[Arkady]

Since the government only has enough of the drug for 10% of the population, I think prisoners can safely assume they will be at the bottom of the priority list and it will not filter down to their level.  Even if it did, prison authorities would no doubt steal it to sell outside.  Maybe farang prisoners have a small chance of getting their embassies to provide them with it but that would not mean that they got it when they needed it.  There again prison authorities are likely to steal anything that is in short supply and given to them to provide to foreign prisoners.  They will certainly not allow prisoners to be sent pills directly from outside. Anyway timely administration of the drug would depend not only on its availability but on the timely diagnosis by prison doctors and a timely approval to administer it.  Thai society approves of harsh treatment of the small time criminals without money or connections that get caught up in the prison system and the view of most would probably be just to let them be wiped out.  Politicians are not interested in prision reform because they can easily avoid prison, even those who are big time criminals.

Whatever they might have done, it is sad that prisoners of any nationalily are not going to receive adequate medical treatment for H1N1 or any other ailment and with the poor nutrition and harsh conditions they are sitting ducks.   Perhaps they can only take consolation from the fact that the guards are also dying from it.

What is not mentioned in the OP's article is that Burmese prisoners represent the largest foreign minority in the Thai prison population by a long margin.  In places like Ratchburi Burmese represent 50% or more of the prison population.  What help can they expect from their embassy?

Edited by Arkady, 2009-08-04 15:42:06.

[k1w1]

sriracha john, on 2009-08-04 14:39:39, said:

"With a report of three people dead"

To reiterate...
Do we have anything more to go by.... other than the "reporting" by an unnamed prisoner AKA "author" in prison?

Has anything he is alleging been corroborated by anyone who isn't ... say... incarcerated for crime? Ironic if he's in there for perjury, eh?

The only other report I've seen...and this one is actually by a news source (NNT News) other then an imprisoned felon's email... which described a solitary case (non-fatal) of swine flu at the Ayuthaya prison.

Surely the highly professional reporters at the bkk post or nation will be able to follow up and get a statement from the prison authorities as to whether anyone working or incarcerated at the prison has died from Swine flu?

Potential mass deaths in one of the worlds most notorious prisons should be enough to motivate paying someone to cover it and get the truth out either way.

Or would that be too much like real reporting and work?

[sriracha john]

another possibility is...

it's not true...

and that's why there is no other news coverage...

[newtronbom]

capt_canada42, on 2009-08-03 21:30:46, said:

thaibkk, on 2009-08-03 18:16:46, said:

the CIA should have started their virus in a mexican prison and not pig farm... would be nice if jails all over the world would be clensed from the worst of the worst (that is cought and convicted)...

Thailand ready with 10% of the population... New world order also wants to decimate the world populating by 90% ...


co-insidence ?

Another idiot with no brain why didn't you stay where you came from !

Yeah. I'm with you. Some people here on TV need to get a life! These vitriolic remarks by "morally challenged" posters, should be deleted. I always fail to see why they condemn a person to death for selling a drug to a willing buyer, then fail to see the inequality of sentence, of a man who rapes, tortures, then disfigures for life (both mentally and physically) some poor kid and gets to walk out of prison a few years later, usually to commit the crime again. It really amazes me as to why there is this huge stigma about drugs. As I said, the drugs are sold to a willing client, who, if he or she missuses them, may cause them to overdose. I fully agree that where minors - children - or mentally impaired are concerned, there should be a heavier sentence, as those persons may be more gullible or misinformed, therefor in my eyes, that is a greater abuse, but where adults are the buyer, they can have no excuse for not being informed of the dangers and pitfalls such as addiction and overdose (usually not taking care to find out the right dose if the seller is new to them) and these people are using drugs recreation-ally, have been in most cases for quite some time, still will be for as long as they don't get caught or run out of supply - so just why is the sentence so severe for this crime? People should realize that if they can't afford it, stop buying their stuff until they can afford it. I really just don't see, how this particular crime, justifies such an inordinately large/long prison sentence. If there was no demand for drugs, the whole thing would just go away - or could be dealt with by clinics set up to deal with this very thing. Problem is, as I see it, that using drugs is enjoyable and many, many people use them and have a normal life and work just like anybody else. Some to booze (like me) and others to drugs. I have tried many, but the danger - legal danger, puts me off. Only need to be caught once here and that's it. Out of the country. Not worth it. Not if like me, your life is here with your wife and family. I would really like to know why there is such a huge stigma attached to the sale of drugs, as opposed to rape, murder, terrorism and child molestation getting relatively lighter sentences? Can anyone give me a rational explanation for it???

[bapak]

Now I'm starting to feel sick but not from swine flu, my problem appears to be related to a sudden onset of disgust.


I am with you, K1K1.. Just where do some of these respondents come from?

[ryladie99]

george, on 2009-08-03 07:24:50, said:

Pandemic A(H1N1) active inside Bang Kwang Central Prison
By John Le Fevre

BANGKOK: -- A British national in Thailand's infamous Bang Kwang Central Prison has written to the charity Prisoners Abroad asking if it or the British Embassy in Bangkok has plans to pay for the flu treatment drug Tamiflu (also sold under the generic name oseltamivir), for jailed Brits in Thailand.

According to the prisoner, who requested his name not be divulged, as of July 13 two prisoners and one prison guard had died from the pandemic A(H1N1) virus, originally termed swine flu, with at least one other guard at that time "seriously ill" in hospital.

The author says he believes the Thai Department of Corrections has issued instructions that face masks are to be worn by all staff and prisoners, "though non-Thai prisoners have to pay Bt100 (about $US3) for each mask".

The author said he was "aware that all medication for foreign prisoners must be sourced and paid for by their respective embassies" and he "wondered if the British Embassy in Thailand has a contigency plan in place?".

The email goes on to say, "the conditions inside Thai prisons are very harsh and the health of a lot of the prisoners incarcerated is not good, with many also suffering with tuberculosis".

The prisoner says he suspects that prison hospitals "are not equipped to handle the influx that this epidemic could cause" and pleaded for help in securing the anti-flu drug on behalf of all British passport holders currently incarcerated in Thailand.

Over the weekend the Public Health Ministry announced that people with pandemic A(H1N1) symptoms will be able to obtain the locally produced oseltamivir free of charge at state and private clinics as of today, while disclosing the cost of manufacturing the drug was Bt25 (about $US0.73) each.

The Government has not made any public announcement whether the free treatment will be extended to foreigners who fall ill in Thailand from pandemic A(H1N1), or whether the anti-viral drug will be supplied to prisoners in its jails.

Thailand is reported to currently have enough oseltamivir to treat 10 percent of the population, with a further 60 million tablets being produced.

As of last Wednesday Thailand had recorded 65 deaths due to pandemic A(H1N1) and 8,877 infections.


-- thaivisa.com 2009-08-03

Thank you so much for this news, I hope everyone will agree, and this is a serious business. Do not hesitate. The outcome is dealy if anything has to wait. Please keep inform the pulic. My opionion.