105 replies to this topic
Posted 2009-08-12 21:19:52
 mc2, on 2009-08-12 10:09:50, said:
scorecard, on 2009-08-12 09:44:40, said: You say you have a masters degree in education, If you are teaching then I pray that your not teaching my kids. I want my kids to grow up knowing what is right and what is wrong and why! My son is in university right now and he's already experienced the disgraceful situation whereby one of his lecturers told the students 'It's good to align yourself with someone who can get their fingers into the money'. His class also threatened by the same lecturer that if she discovered any student was supporting the PAD they would fail at end of term exams.
In other words I want my kids to understand the concept of values and the responsibility of all citizens to respect the law, and also to demand that all citizens, regardless of family or political connections, are subject to and punished equally under the law.
you are always harping on about education, and you call yourself "scorecard". did your teachers fail you at school and now you resent academics ?
firstly I don't believe everything I read on the internet. Assuming your story is true regarding the teacher, this is unacceptable and I hope you have made a complain to the administration.
secondly thaksin is not my 'darling'. i have already criticised him on a number of issues in the past, but he is certainly not the monster some of you make him out to be.
QUOTE: "....Complaint to the administration...". Surely your not serious, teachers can do no wrong in this county.
-QUOTE: ....he is certainly not the monster some of you make him out to be..." What else would you call someone who supervised the summary killing of over 2,500 other Thais? Their human rights were trampled on by the 'monster' with no access to justice whatever. Can you just imagine how loudly he would scream if this was done to one of his children? The term 'monster' is quite apt.
Posted 2009-08-12 23:07:55
sriracha john, on 2009-08-12 06:44:20, said: Verdict on rubber-sapling graft case set for August 17
The Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders has scheduled its ruling for August 17 on a corruption case involving the Thaksin Shinawatra Cabinet's project to purchase 90 million rubber saplings worth 1.4 Billion Baht.
August 17 is also the same day as the Red Shirts said they would turn in their Royal Pardon petition.....
Posted 2009-08-12 23:08:09
PM: Proceedings on Alleged Corruption in Rubber-tree Project Not Shaken by Red-shirt Movement
The Prime Minister has given assurances that Criminal Court proceedings in the alleged corruption case of the rubber-tree project, will not be disrupted by the the red-shirt group's Royal Pardon campaign for former Prime Minister Thaksin.
Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said that he is convinced that the campaign for a Royal Pardon for convicted former Prime Minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, by the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship, or DAAD, will definitely have no effect on the Criminal Court's proceedings in the alleged corruption case especially the rubber-tree plantation project that involves Bhum Jai Thai Party mentor, Newin Chidchob .
Abhisit added that he could not see any connection between the two events and insists that the Court is deliberating the case based on evidence.
-- Tan Network 2009-08-12
Posted 2009-08-13 07:07:59
scorecard, on 2009-08-12 21:19:52, said: QUOTE: "....Complaint to the administration...". Surely your not serious, teachers can do no wrong in this county.
grow a pair , son.
you can always change education providers if all else fails.
moaning on an anonymous internet forum wont solve anything.
Posted 2009-08-13 07:28:31
mc2, on 2009-08-13 08:07:59, said: scorecard, on 2009-08-12 21:19:52, said: QUOTE: "....Complaint to the administration...". Surely your not serious, teachers can do no wrong in this county.
grow a pair , son.
you can always change education providers if all else fails.
moaning on an anonymous internet forum wont solve anything.
Guess many would agree with your sentiments regarding moaning on an anonymous internet forum, maybe practicing what you preach would be a good start.
Posted 2009-08-13 11:11:07
The one effect of this Petition passing and Sapling cases being on the same date is
that it can
partly obscure in the publics mind the utter cockup that was this Thaksin cabinet.
This may well be by design.
Like a magician distracting with one hand as he palms the hamster in the other.
Abaracadabra, presto chango the Pigeon becomes an hamster!
And no one noticed the pigeon was killed rather abruptly in the retractable cage...
The juxtaposition will have the effect of taking up massive amounts of News Space and Punditry Columns,
that other wise would go towards analysis and condemnation of this Cabinet's malfeasance.
A good Public Relations Move... and I VERY much doubt by pure coincidence.
Edited by animatic, 2009-08-13 11:31:12.
Posted 2009-08-13 11:14:35
animatic, on 2009-08-13 11:11:07, said: The one effect of this Petition passing and Sapling cases being on the same date is
that it can
partly obscure in the publics mind the utter cockup that was this Thaksin cabinet.
This may well be by design.
Like a magician distracting with one had as he palms the hamster in the other.
It will have the effect of taking up massive amounts of News space and punditry,
that other wise would go towards analysis and condemnation of this Cabinets malfeasence.
A good Public Relations Move... and I VERY much doubt by pure coincidence.
so lets make sure we concentrate on the courts findings and not the other circus which has no substance anyway.
Posted 2009-08-13 11:19:33
1 post deleted for commenting on the poster and not the subject of the discussion.
Posted 2009-08-13 11:33:28
Political storm warning for Monday: Chief Coalition Whip
Chief coalition whip Chinnaworn Boonyakiart on Thursday reminded the government to take preemptive measures for the brewing political storm that may erupt on Monday.
"The government should remain vigilant because the red shirts will submit the pardon petition on the same day with the judicial verdict on the rubber sapling case," he said.
-- The Nation 2009-08-13
Posted 2009-08-13 11:37:50
sriracha john, on 2009-08-12 23:07:55, said: sriracha john, on 2009-08-12 06:44:20, said: Verdict on rubber-sapling graft case set for August 17
The Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders has scheduled its ruling for August 17 on a corruption case involving the Thaksin Shinawatra Cabinet's project to purchase 90 million rubber saplings worth 1.4 Billion Baht.
August 17 is also the same day as the Red Shirts said they would turn in their Royal Pardon petition.....
You would have to be utterly deluded to think these were not connected. No to mention the ongoing games in the police at a time when a large crowd will no doubt appear at Sanam Luang.
Posted 2009-08-14 07:16:21
If any of the defendants are absent the verdicts will not be read out on Monday, and as there's a considerable number of defendants I think there's a very good chance the court will postpone the case to next month.
Posted 2009-08-14 14:31:18
Chai wouldn't seek pardon for Newin
House Speaker Chai Chidchob said he would not seek a Royal Pardon for his son Newin if he is found guilty in the 1.44 billion baht rubber saplings project. The Supreme Court will rule on the corruption case involving Newin and 43 others over the Agriculture Ministry's purchase of 90 million rubber saplings between 2004 and 2006.
Newin was Deputy Agriculture Minister in the Thaksin Shinawatra administration at the time. Mr Chai said whoever has done anything wrong must face the consequences.
Asked about the red-shirts' plan to submit their petition for a royal pardon for Thaksin Shinawatra on Monday, Mr Chai said it was of no concern to him. He believed that after the petition was submitted, the red-shirt group would
Continued here:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/15...in-sapling-case
-- Bangkok Post 2009-08-14
Posted 2009-08-14 14:42:19
There is no doubt. All will be found guilty. Several will join their master "Doing a runner". The evidence in this case is quite strong (so says my brother in law, a prosecutor for the Thai Government, although not overseeing this particular case).
Posted 2009-08-14 15:48:06
LawnGnome, on 2009-08-14 14:42:19, said: There is no doubt. All will be found guilty. Several will join their master "Doing a runner". The evidence in this case is quite strong (so says my brother in law, a prosecutor for the Thai Government, although not overseeing this particular case).
The evidence will be strong against some, but I highly doubt all will be found guilty. There are 44 involved and this includes some companies as well. In addition, Siripon hit it on the head that given so many are involved, this case will be delayed. It will be awhile before we know who they find guilty and who they don't. Then there are the appeals.
Posted 2009-08-14 20:55:32
Graft verdict on rubber sapling case might be postponed: prosecution lawyer
The Monday's verdict session for the rubber sapling case is likely to be delayed for 30 days because some of the 44 defendants might be a no-show, prosecution lawyer Jessada Anujaree said on Friday.
Jessada voiced suspicion that certain defendants might have fled the country in order to elude punishment.
"It has been speculated for the past two months that certain defendants will not appear at the verdict session in order to have the option of escaping if convicted," he said.
In a number of past graft cases, defendants opted to flee instead of facing the judicial decision, he said. The past fugitives included a former public health minister, a former deputy interior minister, and an infamous kamnan in Chonburi.
Under the court procedures, all 44 defendants in the case must be present during the verdict session.
In case of a no-show, the presiding judge is obligated to delay the reading of the verdict for 30 days.
In the second no-show, the judge will hand down the decision in absentia.
It is a common defence tactic for a no-show to avoid imprisonment.
The list of defendants included former Cabinet members, such as Newin Chidchob and Somkid Jatusripitak, and several senior agriculture officials.
-- The Nation 2009-08-14
Posted 2009-08-14 21:10:14
sriracha john, on 2009-08-14 20:55:32, said: Graft verdict on rubber sapling case might be postponed: prosecution lawyer
The Monday's verdict session for the rubber sapling case is likely to be delayed for 30 days because some of the 44 defendants might be a no-show, prosecution lawyer Jessada Anujaree said on Friday.
Jessada voiced suspicion that certain defendants might have fled the country in order to elude punishment.
"It has been speculated for the past two months that certain defendants will not appear at the verdict session in order to have the option of escaping if convicted," he said.
In a number of past graft cases, defendants opted to flee instead of facing the judicial decision, he said. The past fugitives included a former public health minister, a former deputy interior minister, and an infamous kamnan in Chonburi.
Under the court procedures, all 44 defendants in the case must be present during the verdict session.
In case of a no-show, the presiding judge is obligated to delay the reading of the verdict for 30 days.
In the second no-show, the judge will hand down the decision in absentia.
It is a common defence tactic for a no-show to avoid imprisonment.
The list of defendants included former Cabinet members, such as Newin Chidchob and Somkid Jatusripitak, and several senior agriculture officials.
-- The Nation 2009-08-14
An admission of guilt by not attending court. JMHO
Posted 2009-08-14 21:53:31
LawnGnome, on 2009-08-14 14:42:19, said: There is no doubt. All will be found guilty. Several will join their master "Doing a runner". The evidence in this case is quite strong (so says my brother in law, a prosecutor for the Thai Government, although not overseeing this particular case).
As your brother in law is probably aware, the case went to the Attorney General, who refused to prosecute the case. As a result of this the AEC filed the case directly with the supreme court, and is now being prosecuted by private lawyers representing the NCCC.
Old Man River, on 2009-08-14 15:48:06, said: The evidence will be strong against some, but I highly doubt all will be found guilty. There are 44 involved and this includes some companies as well. In addition, Siripon hit it on the head that given so many are involved, this case will be delayed. It will be awhile before we know who they find guilty and who they don't. Then there are the appeals.
Whilst there is a mechanism to file appeals, which have to be lodged within 30 days of the verdict, to date none have ever got past the initial screening committee, let alone gone to the full Supreme Court for a ruling. In many ways the Supreme Court for political Office holders is totally different from most criminal court cases.
To start with, the Judges are charged with determining exactly what happened, and have full authority to question witnesses, and even to call witnesses if they feel that someone’s testimony could be beneficial to establish the facts of the case.
Because of this, only completely fresh evidence which would totally change the outcome of the trial is allowed in the appeal (Article 278 of the Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand).
For anyone who is interested in some of the early background into the case:
http://report.global...d/2007/notebook
Since the article was written, other events which have occurred include:
- AEC had to threaten the Rubber replanting board with criminal charges for refusing to file a complaint.
- Rubber replanting board revealed that as of 2007, no payments had yet been made to CP and therefore they had no grounds for a complaint.
- Rubber Replanting board finally filed a complaint
- Prime Minister Surayud cancelled the contract with CP Seeds for the rubber saplings
- The cabinet under Prime Minister Surayud authorized 235 Million baht for the remaining 15 million saplings, with the stipulation that any company could supply saplings, and they would be paid immediately on delivery.
- CP Group announced that companies owned by them had supplied all the remaining 15 million saplings
- AEC lodged the case with Attorney General
- Attorney General refused to prosecute
- AEC filed the case directly with the Supreme Court
- AEC froze 1.44 billion baht from Thaksin Shinawatra in order to cover the losses
- NCCC took over the case, when the AEC's term finished
- Trial began
Not totally sure about what happens with the Thaksin money.
At the same time as the money for the rubber saplings was frozen, money was also frozen to cover losses in the Ratchada Phisek land case (772 million baht). When the Supreme Court gave it's verdict on this case, they ruled that there was no evidence of criminal actions (Articles 152 & 157 of the Criminal code) and as a result they ruled against seizing the property (Article 33 of the criminal code) and seizing the money used to purchase the property (Article 83 of the criminal code), and I believe the 772 million baht was unfrozen.
Posted 2009-08-15 13:25:18
Newin will go to court on Monday: Boonjong
Newin Chidchob, leader of the Friend of Newin faction, will certainly go to the Supreme Court on Monday to hear the court’s verdict on the alleged rubber saplings corruption case, Deputy Interior Minister Boonjong Wongtrairat insisted on Saturday.
The Supreme Court will rule on the corruption case involving Newin and 43 others over the Agriculture Ministry's purchase of 90 million rubber saplings between 2004 and 2006. Newin was Deputy Agriculture Minister in the Thaksin Shinawatra administration at the time.
Mr Boonjong also affirmed that Newin had never gone to Singapore to meet Defence Minister General Prawit Wongsuwan to discuss plan to deal with the red-shirted supporters who will present petition for Thaksin pardon on Monday as speculated by the Spokesman of the opposition Puea Thai Party. He and other key members of the Bhum Jai Thai Party, a main coalition partner in the Democrat-led government, will go to give moral support to Newin at
Continued here:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/15...monday-boonjong
-- Bangkok Post 2009-08-15
Posted 2009-08-15 21:23:18
slimdog, on 2009-08-14 21:53:31, said: LawnGnome, on 2009-08-14 14:42:19, said: There is no doubt. All will be found guilty. Several will join their master "Doing a runner". The evidence in this case is quite strong (so says my brother in law, a prosecutor for the Thai Government, although not overseeing this particular case).
As your brother in law is probably aware, the case went to the Attorney General, who refused to prosecute the case. As a result of this the AEC filed the case directly with the supreme court, and is now being prosecuted by private lawyers representing the NCCC.
Old Man River, on 2009-08-14 15:48:06, said: The evidence will be strong against some, but I highly doubt all will be found guilty. There are 44 involved and this includes some companies as well. In addition, Siripon hit it on the head that given so many are involved, this case will be delayed. It will be awhile before we know who they find guilty and who they don't. Then there are the appeals.
Whilst there is a mechanism to file appeals, which have to be lodged within 30 days of the verdict, to date none have ever got past the initial screening committee, let alone gone to the full Supreme Court for a ruling. In many ways the Supreme Court for political Office holders is totally different from most criminal court cases.
To start with, the Judges are charged with determining exactly what happened, and have full authority to question witnesses, and even to call witnesses if they feel that someone’s testimony could be beneficial to establish the facts of the case.
Because of this, only completely fresh evidence which would totally change the outcome of the trial is allowed in the appeal (Article 278 of the Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand).
For anyone who is interested in some of the early background into the case:
http://report.global...d/2007/notebook
Since the article was written, other events which have occurred include:
- AEC had to threaten the Rubber replanting board with criminal charges for refusing to file a complaint.
- Rubber replanting board revealed that as of 2007, no payments had yet been made to CP and therefore they had no grounds for a complaint.
- Rubber Replanting board finally filed a complaint
- Prime Minister Surayud cancelled the contract with CP Seeds for the rubber saplings
- The cabinet under Prime Minister Surayud authorized 235 Million baht for the remaining 15 million saplings, with the stipulation that any company could supply saplings, and they would be paid immediately on delivery.
- CP Group announced that companies owned by them had supplied all the remaining 15 million saplings
- AEC lodged the case with Attorney General
- Attorney General refused to prosecute
- AEC filed the case directly with the Supreme Court
- AEC froze 1.44 billion baht from Thaksin Shinawatra in order to cover the losses
- NCCC took over the case, when the AEC's term finished
- Trial began
Not totally sure about what happens with the Thaksin money.
At the same time as the money for the rubber saplings was frozen, money was also frozen to cover losses in the Ratchada Phisek land case (772 million baht). When the Supreme Court gave it's verdict on this case, they ruled that there was no evidence of criminal actions (Articles 152 & 157 of the Criminal code) and as a result they ruled against seizing the property (Article 33 of the criminal code) and seizing the money used to purchase the property (Article 83 of the criminal code), and I believe the 772 million baht was unfrozen.
Would you by any chance have a list of all of the accused?
Posted 2009-08-15 21:49:06
I wonder who the 'Designated Runner' will be?
If one's a no show no verdict??
Another incredibly brainless law practice.
43 there 44 is missing.. HAH NOTHING!
Posted 2009-08-16 06:27:19
Is not the whole point of this to ascertain if the decision of the court wil be the telling tale of right or wrong? Ambiguity seems to be everywhere in sanitised media reporting. If the decision process delivers true justice then the community will have been served well.
All the "he said, she said" politcal football playing is irrelevant overall. Let the court make its decision (hopefully in the positive) and let Thailand put the past behind them and get on with the gradual changes needed to stop the corruption (sic) and move forward.
Posted 2009-08-16 06:48:21
Wichien told to prevent city clashes
Caretaker National Police Chief Wichien Pojphosri has been ordered to ensure no clashes between supporters of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and those of Newin Chidchob tomorrow. Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva gave the order to head off any confrontation between the groups, which are likely to gather close to each other in the city.
At the Grand Palace, the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship will submit to the Office of His Majesty's Principal Private Secretary their petition seeking a royal pardon for Thaksin.
At nearby Sanam Luang, supporters of Newin will gather at the Criminal Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions to hear its verdict on the rubber sapling project. Newin has been implicated in irregularities in the scheme.
Continued here:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2212...nt-city-clashes
-- Bangkok Post 2009-08-16
Posted 2009-08-16 07:18:42
animatic, on 2009-08-15 22:49:06, said: I wonder who the 'Designated Runner' will be?
If one's a no show no verdict??
Another incredibly brainless law practice.
43 there 44 is missing.. HAH NOTHING!
No appearance Your Honour, I move that the matters forthwith proceed on an ex parte basis.
Posted 2009-08-16 07:19:07
Old Man River, on 2009-08-15 21:23:18, said: Would you by any chance have a list of all of the accused?
I've not found a list of all the names personally, but 5 of them are the Thaksin Cabinet Ministers depicted in the OP. The remaining ones are...
Quote The Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders decided yesterday to commence a trial over alleged irregularities in the 1.4 Billion Baht project. The 44 suspects are divided into three groups.
The first group involves political office-holders who sat on a committee screening projects for the Cabinet, a panel on policies and measures to help farmers, and a team that managed the rubber sapling project which set terms of reference for the bidding.
The second group is state officials on the committee that oversaw the bidding.
The third group is the companies that were allegedly involved, namely Charoen Pokphand Seeds, Resort Land, and Ek Charoen Agriculture.
and also, a further breakdown on the numbers...
Quote 15 staff members from three private companies involved in the bidding process, including Charoen Pokphand Seed Company, Resort Land Limited Company, and Eak Charoen Agriculture, are also among the 44 defendants.
Edited by sriracha john, 2009-08-16 07:20:44.
Posted 2009-08-16 07:38:28
animatic, on 2009-08-15 21:49:06, said: I wonder who the 'Designated Runner' will be?
If one's a no show no verdict??
All 44 showed up when they were initially arraigned last September... but that's certainly less perilous for them than showing up for the verdict reading...
sriracha john, on 2008-09-23 14:01:14, said: All 44 defendants claim innocence in the 1.4 Billion Baht rubber saplings case
The Supreme Court on Tuesday convened the arraignment hearing for 44 defendants, including five former Cabinet members, for graft charges relating to the 1.4 Billion Baht rubber saplings case.
The case happened under the Thaksin Shinawatra administration.
After the high court read out graft charges, the 44 defendants entered a plea of not guilty and claimed trial.
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