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[catmac]

Meridian007, on 2009-08-14 12:52:36, said:

Sorry, but this government wouldn't do something as stupid as this. It sounds too much like a heavy-handed Thaksin move, and even if you don't like Abhisit, you must admit that he has much more political finesse. Even if this story was true, you can bet that it would have been done without his knowledge.

But you forget that Newin's idiots are in charge of the relevant Ministry, and that's just the kind of stupid, confrontational crap that they delight in - remember his band of blue-shirted thugs at Pattaya?

I've no doubt that Abhisit had no knowledge of this stunt, but that is the real tragedy of this Government - a rabble of self seeking clowns doing their own thing (and lining their own pockets in the process!) supervised by a PM totally unable to exercise any control over them. Indeed, it is them that have the PM at their mercy, he is merely tolerated as a pretty face to put before the media and the World who will be dumped whenever they choose, or be sacrificed as a scapegoat if the shit ever reaches the fan!

[sriracha john]

TheNewLightOfThaiVisa said:

[sunsamourai]

Scott, on 2009-08-14 07:59:31, said:

I am also glad that the war being waged is with pen and ink instead of something more dangerous.

The pen is mightier than the sword

[Meridian007]

catmac, on 2009-08-14 14:04:11, said:

But you forget that Newin's idiots are in charge of the relevant Ministry, and that's just the kind of stupid, confrontational crap that they delight in - remember his band of blue-shirted thugs at Pattaya?

I've no doubt that Abhisit had no knowledge of this stunt, but that is the real tragedy of this Government - a rabble of self seeking clowns doing their own thing (and lining their own pockets in the process!) supervised by a PM totally unable to exercise any control over them. Indeed, it is them that have the PM at their mercy, he is merely tolerated as a pretty face to put before the media and the World who will be dumped whenever they choose, or be sacrificed as a scapegoat if the shit ever reaches the fan!

I agree, but if this is actually real (still waiting on that), I hope Abhisit will have a way to deal with it as he has with cleaning up most of the other messes his bedmates have made. Don't underestimate him, Abhisit has shown surprising strength and leadership for someone in his extremely constrained position. It is a coalition government, there is only so much Abhisit can do...

[Plus]

Scott, on 2009-08-14 13:52:38, said:

Well, it would appear that a lot of people are willing to kill the messenger as well as the message.

The message could be kosher, but the messenger's reliability is in question.

Did John Le Fevre really interview lots of civil servants to state things like "most notably in the north and northeast of the country"? Did he interview them by phone? How many did he call? How many said they never heard of manadtory petitions, payments and the like? How are they spread geographically?

And what about "Throughout the country reports are also gradually filtering out" - who is reporting to whom? Does John Le Fevre collect reports from agents throughout the country?

Really?

>>>

The "news" article looks like a recap of an unattributed RSS feed. It's fine if it's a recap of the headlines in some Red/Yellow papers - if the source is stated clearly.

[kuff]

Plus, on 2009-08-14 07:34:06, said:

Scott, on 2009-08-14 13:52:38, said:

Well, it would appear that a lot of people are willing to kill the messenger as well as the message.

The message could be kosher, but the messenger's reliability is in question.

Did John Le Fevre really interview lots of civil servants to state things like "most notably in the north and northeast of the country"? Did he interview them by phone? How many did he call? How many said they never heard of manadtory petitions, payments and the like? How are they spread geographically?

And what about "Throughout the country reports are also gradually filtering out" - who is reporting to whom? Does John Le Fevre collect reports from agents throughout the country?

Really?

>>>

The "news" article looks like a recap of an unattributed RSS feed. It's fine if it's a recap of the headlines in some Red/Yellow papers - if the source is stated clearly.

Totally agree on that.
Maybe that's why this section is called News-clippings? Take a little from here, take a little from there and make it look like it's actually a bit of investigative journalism. It's just sad that if a "normal" poster would put this on, it would be deleted even before you could say "amen". The mods would ask immediatly for a news source. So is it news or an opinion then?

[Meridian007]

Koo82, on 2009-08-14 14:29:06, said:

Really Koo? You usually seem to make some of the most sincerely heartfelt and temperate comments on behalf of the UDD, I'm surprised to see such a juvenile response like this here.

Abhisit has shown his mettle not only in his restraint during the Songkran battle and his assertion of control over Patcharawat Wongsuwan , but also in his attempts to curb Newin, his attempts to bring justice to both yellow and red shirt offences, his peaceful overtures to Malaysia and the Muslims of the south, his calls for Thai people to educate themselves on what is happening in the world and Thailand, and his attempts to boost the Thai economy within the depressed global economy.

Could he do a better job? Yes, of course, if he wasn't part of a coalition. The very definition of which explains the difficulty of making change when the focus of the government is pulled in many directions by the interests of its coalition members.

EDIT< Sorry to sidestep the topic, let's get back to it! >

Edited by Meridian007, 2009-08-14 15:20:26.

[animatic]

Koo82, on 2009-08-14 14:29:06, said:

Meridian007, on 2009-08-14 14:14:10, said:

Abhisit has shown surprising strength and leadership for someone in his extremely constrained position.

Laugh as the world is crying
Laugh as your love lays dieing
Laugh laugh laugh

[sriracha john]

Hmmm... no evidence of coercion, threats, or job loose here:

http://www.thaivisa....=...t&p=2942524

[Insight]

kuff, on 2009-08-14 15:28:06, said:

ok at least there is a reliable source:
#Thailand Gov threatens 2 fire public servants who don't sign petition opposing @Thaksinlive rpyal pardon petition. #rednews #redtweet

Who is responsible for that twit?

[hansnl]

Scott, on 2009-08-14 08:50:03, said:

Three people does not a Civil Service make.  

I am sure the ones who got ordered to sign were the ones who didn't want to sign.

On the other hand, what is written does not need to be the truth.

Also, where did this "rumour", if I may call it so, originate?
Or, maybe, if I may ask, who instignated the "rumour"

[kuff]

Insight, on 2009-08-14 09:14:43, said:

Who is responsible for that twit?

I'm sure it's a true independant! LOL!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

kuff, on 2009-08-14 15:53:10, said:

Plus, on 2009-08-14 07:34:06, said:

Scott, on 2009-08-14 13:52:38, said:

Well, it would appear that a lot of people are willing to kill the messenger as well as the message.

The message could be kosher, but the messenger's reliability is in question.

Did John Le Fevre really interview lots of civil servants to state things like "most notably in the north and northeast of the country"? Did he interview them by phone? How many did he call? How many said they never heard of manadtory petitions, payments and the like? How are they spread geographically?

And what about "Throughout the country reports are also gradually filtering out" - who is reporting to whom? Does John Le Fevre collect reports from agents throughout the country?

Really?

>>>

The "news" article looks like a recap of an unattributed RSS feed. It's fine if it's a recap of the headlines in some Red/Yellow papers - if the source is stated clearly.

Totally agree on that.
Maybe that's why this section is called News-clippings? Take a little from here, take a little from there and make it look like it's actually a bit of investigative journalism. It's just sad that if a "normal" poster would put this on, it would be deleted even before you could say "amen". The mods would ask immediatly for a news source. So is it news or an opinion then?

Banned members get tossed out with out rather quickly and with ease   ...   yes you kuff,

[dr_Pat_Pong]

kuff, on 2009-08-14 17:49:38, said:

Insight, on 2009-08-14 09:14:43, said:

Who is responsible for that twit?

I'm sure it's a true independant! LOL!

Rather like your good self kuff. I rather liked one other nick you picked.  

[kuff]

dr_Pat_Pong, on 2009-08-14 10:00:17, said:

Banned members get tossed out with out rather quickly and with ease   ...   yes you kuff,

Am I banned? Why didn't I know?

[LaoPo]

This is funny....sorry: hilarious  

1. an article is posted by "Thaivisa News", written by John le Fevre; I am NOT judging whether the content of that article is truth or not. It's not up to me to decide.

2. The entire ANTI Thaksin brigade on Thaivisa jumps out of bed and without even showering or dressing starts questioning the content.

3. This is -for me, in almost 5 years of Thaivisa- the first time (as far as I know) that the anti-Thaksin brigade QUESTIONS a news-article with so many cannons and missiles fired upon a writer, where he found his content; is it true ?...my family members say they didn't hear anything of the kind etc. etc.

4. My question is: did all those anti-Thaksin members question with the same cannons and missiles ALL those millions of articles, written about Thaksin, when those articles were attacking Thaksin......? where the writers of those articles found their "truth"...asked their family members if the content was true or not....were they there ? Did they see it happen ?

5. Or, do the Thaksin haters find it a bit more convenient to attack this article because it's in the next room of Thaivisa...other than all those other honest, fair, sincere and truthful news agencies like Bangkok Post, The Nation etc., not forgetting the News Agency of the Government...

Silly and childish behaviour of the anti-Thaksin brigade.

OK start flaming and bashing upon me    

BTW: I am nor pro- nor anti Thaksin; I leave that up to wise and intelligent people. Enough Farang Judges in Thailand and on TV  


LaoPo

[Scott]

Very good analysis of the situation LaoPo.

[h90]

njpski, on 2009-08-14 08:08:58, said:

Now we are seeing true corruption from the anti-Thaksin folk - forcing people to sign a petition on pain of losing their jobs is as abhorrent as allegedly buying votes

He is an ex Thaksin friend...not from any anti-thaksin folks

[kuff]

ok my las two cents bevore i'm banned forever. Bashing of the "covicted criminal" is just so easy! BTW It's fun too. But don't think I'm yellow or red or blue or brown, but still where do you think news like this are coming from, and who are they likely to help?
Maybe you should understand the stakes at the moment, it's a tricky time, little sparks can set off a big BOOM, if you know what I mean. So if there is a missile fired, like you put it, it's because of this.
Anyway I'm just a troll that doesn't care, because it's not my country and I'm just on holidays... and I'm banned now aswell LOL

[TAWP]

Scott, on 2009-08-14 17:47:18, said:

Very good analysis of the situation LaoPo.

The two red-supporters shakes hand. "Yes, now we nailed it", they say.

Not at all. The fact of the matter is that newspapers here needs a license.
So while this leads to some authoritarian issues (see: Thaksin didn't like the free press for instance) it also pushes newspapers to, hopefully, be slightly more responsible in their reporting. If nothing else, a newspaper is a business and have to stay in business and if they post unsubstantiated news people might stop reading/subscribing to them, sponsors might pull their ads, the targets of the attacks might sue.

John, however, is a [known] blogger. And yes, he also has an admittedly red slant in his posts. Is anyone dismissing that?

He however does not work for a newspaper with a license as far as I know. So when he comes up with original material it is a GOOD thing that people question it.
(And hand on the heart, a lot of news-reports, including from the Nation, has been attacked here, so this isn't even anything new.)
If people question it and it stands up, then his case will remain stronger.

Sofar we however have 'alleged' to be put infront of the accusation in the topic as I haven't seen anyone corroborate that this would be either true or done on any larger scale.

No doubt it can be pressure from people on a local level, from both sides, but the news article proposes it is organized.

Prove it.

[Plus]

LaoPo, on 2009-08-14 17:44:11, said:

..
2. The entire ANTI Thaksin brigade on Thaivisa jumps out of bed and without even showering or dressing starts questioning the content.
..

Twice in this thread I said that the content might be basically correct, because that's what Newin boys at the Interior would do.

What is in question is John's journalist ethics - the way he presented it leaves big doubts about authenticity of his "interviews" and "reports".

In the end it doesn't matter much - there will always be big a discrepancy between what happened and how it was percieved from the news, but little things like "reports are filtering out" or implying that hundreds if not thousands of civilc servants across the country were interviewed leaves a bad taste in the mouth. He could have just said "got it from the grapevine", would be more reliable.

Projecting what he heard from one source on the whole country makes me believe in Abac polls as if it was a Bible.

[LaoPo]

TAWP, on 2009-08-14 13:12:43, said:

Scott, on 2009-08-14 17:47:18, said:

Very good analysis of the situation LaoPo.

The two red-supporters shakes hand. "Yes, now we nailed it", they say.

Not at all. The fact of the matter is that newspapers here needs a license.
So while this leads to some authoritarian issues (see: Thaksin didn't like the free press for instance) it also pushes newspapers to, hopefully, be slightly more responsible in their reporting. If nothing else, a newspaper is a business and have to stay in business and if they post unsubstantiated news people might stop reading/subscribing to them, sponsors might pull their ads, the targets of the attacks might sue.

John, however, is a [known] blogger. And yes, he also has an admittedly red slant in his posts. Is anyone dismissing that?

He however does not work for a newspaper with a license as far as I know. So when he comes up with original material it is a GOOD thing that people question it.
(And hand on the heart, a lot of news-reports, including from the Nation, has been attacked here, so this isn't even anything new.)
If people question it and it stands up, then his case will remain stronger.

Sofar we however have 'alleged' to be put in front of the accusation in the topic as I haven't seen anyone corroborate that this would be either true or done on any larger scale.

No doubt it can be pressure from people on a local level, from both sides, but the news article proposes it is organized.

Prove it.

No TAWP.

You're going into detail whether one has a license to publish "news" or not; whether in a newspaper, website (Thaivisa) or blog.

That has nothing to do with my comment that it is so overly visible that the anti-Thaksin brigade expose themselves on Thaivisa, in this thread, by questioning an article which is NOT in their favor.

Their favor is: we hate Thaksin and we do NOT accept anything which is in our way and we will use any means to fight anybody who is opposed to our vision.

That, TAWP, is the point. Those anti-Thaksin people are so obsessed with their views that it's almost.....read again: almost: sickening. Not for me but for themselves.

Hate is a very bad quality in a human being and tends to destroy; destroy the brain and body.

The world, nature, people....there are so many beautiful things to see and experience out there.

Leave the Thaksin case to the Thai authorities to judge for and, for heaven's sake, I wish the Adnistration of this website would forbid any further new Thaksin threads in order to restore some peace on this forum...

Peace !  

LaoPo

[DP25]

Insight, on 2009-08-14 16:14:43, said:

kuff, on 2009-08-14 15:28:06, said:

ok at least there is a reliable source:
#Thailand Gov threatens 2 fire public servants who don't sign petition opposing @Thaksinlive rpyal pardon petition. #rednews #redtweet

Who is responsible for that twit?

The author of this story.  He posts in and reads all the red shirt twitters. If his red shirt blogger buddies can't be trusted for truthful info, who can?

http://twitter.com/photo_journ

[Plus]

Quote

That has nothing to do with my comment that it is so overly visible that the anti-Thaksin brigade expose themselves on Thaivisa, in this thread, by questioning an article which is NOT in their favor.

Their favor is: we hate Thaksin and we do NOT accept anything which is in our way and we will use any means to fight anybody who is opposed to our vision.

This is incorrect as far as my contributions are concerned.

In the beginning some people asked around civil servants they know personally and it didn't check out. Now everyone talks about the source of this "news".

I'm sure there are places where people were ordered to collect a hundred signatures or be fired, but how many are there? Are they localised? Is it really a government policy or just some overzealous local bosses trying to please Bangkok?

I, personally, don't know what to make of it unless I know how the story came into being the way it was presented.

[Plus]

Quote

The author of this story. He posts in and reads all the red shirt twitters.

Oh Jesus...

This is where this "news" comes from? Anonymous tweets?