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[Vit42]

EVO, you don't need to denounce one citizenship to obtain another. You only denouce when you no longer want to be a citizen. Therefore, if you apply and get citizenship, as long as you don't denounce your prior citizenship, then you don't automatically lose it. Of course a country has the option of dropping you as a citizen if they don't like your behavior. It's like getting a credit card .

[samran]

EVO, on 2005-03-21 15:44:11, said:

Call me daft........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK then, you are daft!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

samran, on 2005-03-22 02:06:11, said:

EVO, on 2005-03-21 15:44:11, said:

Call me daft........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK then, you are daft!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[~G~]

Vit42, on 2005-03-22 00:03:46, said:

EVO, you don't need to denounce one citizenship to obtain another. You only denouce when you no longer want to be a citizen. Therefore, if you apply and get citizenship, as long as you don't denounce your prior citizenship, then you don't automatically lose it. Of course a country has the option of dropping you as a citizen if they don't like your behavior. It's like getting a credit card .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you not required to denounce prior citizenship in order to get Thai citizenship? As far as I know, some countries allow their citizens to have foreign citizenship, others do not. What is the policy in Thailand?

[sabaijai]

~G~, on 2005-03-22 05:21:35, said:

Vit42, on 2005-03-22 00:03:46, said:

EVO, you don't need to denounce one citizenship to obtain another. You only denouce when you no longer want to be a citizen. Therefore, if you apply and get citizenship, as long as you don't denounce your prior citizenship, then you don't automatically lose it. Of course a country has the option of dropping you as a citizen if they don't like your behavior. It's like getting a credit card .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you not required to denounce prior citizenship in order to get Thai citizenship? As far as I know, some countries allow their citizens to have foreign citizenship, others do not. What is the policy in Thailand?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thailand allows dual citizenship. So do most other countries. Not to do so would be to risk losing taxpayers.  

[rainman]

So many Thais i know would die to get a foreign citizenship. Why would you want to give up yours (if your country doesn't allow dual, that is) to get Thai citizenship?

[PvtDick]

Different people want different things.  For someone who wants to live the rest of their lives in Thailand -- especially if they want to own their home or business outright -- there are a lot of advantages to being a citizen.

[rainman]

That's correct, but for people without the ability of dual citizenship it would probably have more negative effects than advantages. You would most likely lose the right to pension or other support from your home country.

[PvtDick]

Depends on each individual's case.  In mine, as an American with no social security benefits coming (I've never paid in), I have nothing to look forward to from the US government in terms of pension or support.  I do, however, have to look forward to paying US taxes every year as long as I'm a US citizen.

In any case, I suspect that for many people, the advantage of being free from Thai work permit hassles, and being able to own one's company, land, and home outright, might outweigh any potential disadvantages.

[Ken]

PvtDick, on 2005-03-22 16:47:05, said:

Depends on each individual's case.  In mine, as an American with no social security benefits coming (I've never paid in), I have nothing to look forward to from the US government in terms of pension or support.  I do, however, have to look forward to paying US taxes every year as long as I'm a US citizen.

In any case, I suspect that for many people, the advantage of being free from Thai work permit hassles, and being able to own one's company, land, and home outright, might outweigh any potential disadvantages.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And as an American you are allowed "dual citizenship".

"Losing U.S. Citizenship"

"A person who is automatically granted another citizenship (i.e.. through birth or marriage) does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship. Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct."

Ref: US Department of State (DOS) website:US DOS

[PvtDick]

Yes, I realize that.  I plan to keep my US citizenship should I ever acquire Thai citizenship -- and frankly, I can't imagine the US even having a way to know I had become a dual national.

Edited by PvtDick, 2005-03-22 17:28:24.

[~G~]

rainman, on 2005-03-22 16:28:02, said:

That's correct, but for people without the ability of dual citizenship it would probably have more negative effects than advantages. You would most likely lose the right to pension or other support from your home country.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, for westerners or citizens of other developed countries.

But not for most of the world's population... Pension??? Support???

[EVO]

Dual Citizenship is not granted by a great deal of countries. My wife is unable to hold dual citizenship for instance, though i guess we would never need it anyway.

[Vit42]

EVO, on 2005-03-22 10:43:59, said:

Dual Citizenship is not granted by a great deal of countries. My wife is unable to hold dual citizenship for instance, though i guess we would never need it anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As i said in an earlier post, most countries don't officially "grant" dual citizenship. However, they do recognize that there are cases where people have citizenship rights to more than one country, for example, parents of different nationality. Countries may not officially grant dual citizenship but then again they don't officially deny you the right to have it.

Double taxation is a more complex issue and has to do with the treaty between countries and the tax authorities. In general though, there are usually ways to not be taxed the same in both countries by proving that you've paid an equivalent tax in the other country. Thai visa has a nice story about this...

http://www.thaivisa....d_us_tax.0.html

[Khutan]

johnh101, on 2005-03-13 18:35:02, said:

I heard of one farang who had himself legally adopted by a Thai Woman and got it that way.
 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are there any more details on this, like who did the legal work etc etc.

[hendy75]

sbk, on 2005-03-14 01:10:56, said:

Checked back into the info I had saved on my computer about citizenship requirements and found this:

In case of applying for Thai citizenship through Thai husband
         1.   Same document as in general case

        2.    Certified letter from special branch division or the concerned provincial 

                police station

        3.    A photocopy of husband's house registration

        4.    A photocopy of husband's indntification card

        5.    Interrogation report

        6.    Application must be made in person
   

and from the Thai visa website:

To acquire Thai nationality



Aliens who wish to apply for Thai nationality under the Nationality Act B.E. 2508 (A.D. 1965) a person does NOT need to be 40 years or have spent 10 years in Thailand.
They must be of the age of majority, be of good character, be gainfully employed, have continuously lived in Thailand for not less than FIVE years and have knowledge of the Thai language. (Section 10) It's an advantage to be married to a Thai citizen and having children born in Thailand or having studied in a local university/college as an undergraduate. The applicant must complete an application form and submit various required documents to the Criminal Investigation Division Group I, Subdivision 3, Police Department, Rama I Road, Bangkok. 

The official fee is Baht 5,000. The processing takes 2 to 3 years. 

In the case of a minor child sponsored by a mother or father having Thai nationality, there must be evidence of both sponsorship and the child's birth. Likewise, a wife seeking Thai citizenship based on her husband's Thai nationality must submit evidence of the husband's nationality, the marriage, and a formal request for Thai citizenship.

So, I guess, basic research shows the 10 year permanent residency idea is also a fallacy. Or just from someone who doesn't take the time to perform basic and elementary research?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[haltes]

How do I get the yellow place of residency book?

I have a blue one from when I bought the condo but I never tried to add my name to it!

[bkk_mike]

rainman, on 2005-03-22 15:08:10, said:

So many Thais i know would die to get a foreign citizenship. Why would you want to give up yours (if your country doesn't allow dual, that is) to get Thai citizenship?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you're American - and make a LOT of money, getting a foreign citizenship, and renouncing your US citizenship is the only way to get out of the clutches of the Infernal Revenue Service.

[PvtDick]

It's not that easy, though.  The IRS can still tax you if they determine that you are renouncing your citizenship for tax avoidance purposes.

[Nordlys]

I do have dual citizenship thorugh birth in Thailand.  My other citizenship is Japanese, I was born to Japanese parents here.  Japan doesn't allow dual citizenships in principle, but having born before the amendment of citizenship act in early 70's, I am still considered a Japaense citizen unless I voluntarily declared another citizenship at the embassy.  

However, it was only about 3 years ago after many years away from Thailand (and still many years after I returned to Thailand) that I have renewed my long expired Thai ID card.  Since then, I bought a condominium in my name with no transfer from overseas, voted in the election last Feb, and even received medical care under B30 medical scheme (they sent me the "gold card").  

When I had my ID card renewed (or more like reinstated) at the district office, they were very suspicious with me and asked why it took me so long to come for renewal and I answered I was out of the country mostly.  How did I prove that?  with my Japanese passport.  I was afraid they would not renew my ID card as I thought Thailand does not allow dual citizenships either, but after calling my next of kin (mother) who can guarantee my identity and interviewing her for a few minutes, they decided to renew/reinstate my ID card.  

However, as my first entry back to Thailand after many years in US and Japan was as a Japanese passport holder (with non-immigrant visa), I am still renewing my visa and work permit every year.  My wife is starting to complain about the increasing cost of visa renewal and all these paper works, and suggesting I should apply for PR.  And I tell my wife that is pointless, since I already have a citizenship.  Why a PR when you are already a citizen?  

I and my wife have often talked about how I can start a Thai only identity life here.  Should I just go issue a Thai passport, leave the country with Japanese passport and come back with Thai passport?  That way there's no more Japaense me in Thailand technically.  And then it's a lot more convenient when going to Japan, US or Europe or for that matter any countries in the world being a Japanese passport holder (than a Thai).  And I don't think I can just travel with two passports, leaving Thailand with Jap passport and coming back as Thai.  

Anybody else has a same dilemma?  
I just don't see how many more years I have to keep renewing my visa when I'm already a Thai citizen.  I guess ultimately it's just a matter of weighing the inconvenience of visa/work permit renewal and convenience of travelling as a Japanese without having to worry about visa...  

What would you do if you're in my situation?  
Should I go for PR as my wife suggests?  

BTW I and my wife registered our marriage here as a foreign husband and a Thai wife.  It was extremely complicated process registering marriage to Thai wife here as a foreigner, but I did so to align with my immigrational status.

[lopburi3]

As long as Japan does not have a problem with it I would get the Thai passport and make the trip.  When you return use the Thai passport and you are Thai and no more work permit or visa worries.  Just remember to use Thai passport thereafter to exit/enter Thailand each time you travel.  I assume you are already listed on a home register as you own a condo.

[Nordlys]

Hi Lopburi3,

Execuse me, what does a house registration have anything to do with this??  

I think issuing a Thai passport is no problem.  
But will it cause a problem if I return to Thailand with a blank Thai passport, issued in Thailand but with no trace of ever leaving the country with that passport?  

lopburi3, on 2005-04-19 17:30:56, said:

As long as Japan does not have a problem with it I would get the Thai passport and make the trip.  When you return use the Thai passport and you are Thai and no more work permit or visa worries.  Just remember to use Thai passport thereafter to exit/enter Thailand each time you travel.  I assume you are already listed on a home register as you own a condo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[samran]

Nordlys, on 2005-04-19 16:31:29, said:

Hi Lopburi3,

Execuse me, what does a house registration have anything to do with this?? 

I think issuing a Thai passport is no problem. 
But will it cause a problem if I return to Thailand with a blank Thai passport, issued in Thailand but with no trace of ever leaving the country with that passport? 

lopburi3, on 2005-04-19 17:30:56, said:

As long as Japan does not have a problem with it I would get the Thai passport and make the trip.  When you return use the Thai passport and you are Thai and no more work permit or visa worries.  Just remember to use Thai passport thereafter to exit/enter Thailand each time you travel.  I assume you are already listed on a home register as you own a condo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It shouldn't cause any trouble entering on a blank passport. Many Thai passports are issued from embassy's overseas when they are lost or renewed.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

samran, on 2005-04-20 05:34:48, said:

Nordlys, on 2005-04-19 16:31:29, said:

Hi Lopburi3,

Execuse me, what does a house registration have anything to do with this?? 

I think issuing a Thai passport is no problem. 
But will it cause a problem if I return to Thailand with a blank Thai passport, issued in Thailand but with no trace of ever leaving the country with that passport? 

lopburi3, on 2005-04-19 17:30:56, said:

As long as Japan does not have a problem with it I would get the Thai passport and make the trip.  When you return use the Thai passport and you are Thai and no more work permit or visa worries.  Just remember to use Thai passport thereafter to exit/enter Thailand each time you travel.  I assume you are already listed on a home register as you own a condo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do just that and the problem is solved  

It shouldn't cause any trouble entering on a blank passport. Many Thai passports are issued from embassy's overseas when they are lost or renewed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Nordlys]

So I should get my Thai passport issued at a Thai embassy outside Thailand claiming I lost one?