Posted 2009-10-22 06:08:35
 bangkokumpalumpa, on 2009-10-21 23:44:10, said:
Dear elkangorito
well if you dont believe me then how about his one.
how about we make a bet on this on this public forum, as long as you have a earth system I will stop your Thailand meter running by turning your system into a SWER, then you pay my travel cost, my time and 50,000 baht to Father Joe and the orphans. all I will do is some very simple work inside your load center, I wont touch your meter nor will I go near it, other than to watch what it is doing!
we can make a video of this (not showing the work that is done) but not stopping the video whilst I stop your meter by turning your house phase/nuetral mains supply system into a swer systerm. we can post it on youtube for all to see and judge who wins the bet and if you should pay the money to Father Joe.
to confim the test if you have an aircon then I will make your aircon run without your meter truning once! it will have stoped, you will have electric supply but no meter movement.
now how much do want to risk on this one???
want to doubt my ability and knock it on the public forum???
Warning!!!
you dont know who I am or what I have done for a trade. think long and hard, can you afford to loose the money? do you really know enough to make the call on this bet.
please please take me up on this bet as Father Joe needs all the money he can get.
Anybody with a good understanding of single phase power supply and Thailand meters will understand my posting, it is about changing your standard system over to swer, now if you dont understand it then you dont understand SWER or how a standard Thailand meter works!!!
This bet I think would be classed as power thieft, but I think that the thailand power company would be ok with it for 1 minute to donate 50,000 to Father Joe.
come on, time to put the money where the mouth is and help the poor children!
looking forward to your post!!!
Oh I'm sitting here with sweating palms, I can just imagine what @#$% is feeling, Post back , don't post back, Should I take the bet, Hahahaha...........
Somebody do somethig the suspence is killing me...
Anyway, I'll give yah 50,000 if you stop my metre and kep my power flowing. I'm pretty sure I could round up a few more people to make your travel better for yah.
Posted 2009-10-22 09:18:38
you would love your meter stopped for about 6 - 8 weeks then you would have a BIG problem!!!
the Thailand power company knows all the tricks in the book, so after paying your bill for months and then the meter stopping you will find a man on your doorstep asking how you are powering your house and not having any meter movement!!
so the trick to this is not stopping your meter but slowing it!!!
what I have listed here is something that is done in Thailand, they add some simple creative wiring and you end up with a unit that you can control the speed of your meter, I must say it is some very creative thinking and credit must be given to the person who came up with this one!!!
imagin a meter that with a turn of a knob you can make it go fast or slow. I have seen this system working many times here in bangkok hence I have no problem posting this bet.
THIS IS ILLEGAL !!!!!!
IT IS POWER THIEFT!!!!
if you note I have not posted 100% how it is done, and I wont as I dont want people poking there nose into this type of thing, after all if you dont already know how it is done then maybe you shouldnt be changing the wires that supply your house!!!!
to be honest I have also sent a PM to elkangarito telling him how it is done (as he has an electrical background) and advising him not to take the bet, what I want to see is people working together on this forum to increase electrical safety and awareness.
not fighting, hey if I can spend some time at my computer and maybe save someones life through making them aware of their system then great!!!
as for 50,000 to stop your meter or slow it for that matter hmmmmmmm that is tempting but illegal !!!
I AM NOT THAT CHEAP hahahahha
PM me when you hit 500,000 in work  
Posted 2009-10-22 09:37:14
bangkokumpalumpa, on 2009-10-22 09:18:38, said: you would love your meter stopped for about 6 - 8 weeks then you would have a BIG problem!!!
the Thailand power company knows all the tricks in the book, so after paying your bill for months and then the meter stopping you will find a man on your doorstep asking how you are powering your house and not having any meter movement!!
so the trick to this is not stopping your meter but slowing it!!!
what I have listed here is something that is done in Thailand, they add some simple creative wiring and you end up with a unit that you can control the speed of your meter, I must say it is some very creative thinking and credit must be given to the person who came up with this one!!!
imagin a meter that with a turn of a knob you can make it go fast or slow. I have seen this system working many times here in bangkok hence I have no problem posting this bet.
THIS IS ILLEGAL !!!!!!
IT IS POWER THIEFT!!!!
if you note I have not posted 100% how it is done, and I wont as I dont want people poking there nose into this type of thing, after all if you dont already know how it is done then maybe you shouldnt be changing the wires that supply your house!!!!
to be honest I have also sent a PM to elkangarito telling him how it is done (as he has an electrical background) and advising him not to take the bet, what I want to see is people working together on this forum to increase electrical safety and awareness.
not fighting, hey if I can spend some time at my computer and maybe save someones life through making them aware of their system then great!!!
as for 50,000 to stop your meter or slow it for that matter hmmmmmmm that is tempting but illegal !!!
I AM NOT THAT CHEAP hahahahha
PM me when you hit 500,000 in work
Interesting concepts and discussion. Of course absolutly nothing to do with this posters discussion topic ! By the way Elvis Presley is still alive and living on the moon, apparently sleeping on board a London double decker bus where I suspect many of the "so called" inventions' companies mentioned in this string have an operating base
Posted 2009-10-22 09:59:34
Crossy, on 2009-10-02 15:34:09, said: chrgrims, on 2009-10-02 14:44:38, said: there are some "electricity power savers" also on this site. would be nice if someone has any info on those too.
They don't work, period!! I challenge anyone to demonstrate, under controlled laboratory conditions, one of these units producing a significant (or even a measurable) reduction in electrical power usage by a normal houshold in Thailand.
Boondee have some interesting ideas, their (now withdrawn) Ghost Repeller being one of many  and their wattmeter does not even measure Watts (it measures VA which 'aint the same thing).
The solar tower is an interesting concept, but a low-speed air turbine that produces 16-20kW will be something to behold
This tower is only worth its cost if it can cool the ground below the solar panels enough to cultivate a few rais of vineyard...
Edited by trogers, 2009-10-22 10:01:34.
Posted 2009-10-22 10:53:38
Elvis is not living on the moon!!!
I saw him in Pattya with princess Diana!!!
Posted 2009-10-22 16:28:55
All this talk about stopping kWh meters is interesting, but in the US it is illegal to have current flow through the grounding conductor (earthing conductor) IAW the National Electrical Code (NEC). This is for safety reasons, the grounding conductor is for personnel safety only. The neutral conductor is used to complete the circuit path. Fault current can, at times, momentarily flow through the grounding conductor. SWER transmission lines are an entirely different subject.
Edited by InterestedObserver, 2009-10-22 16:58:38.
#32
elkangorito
Posted 2009-10-24 20:18:13
Not solar power but a great device that works. It's by no means a new idea...been around for a while.
http://www.lutec.com.au/
Posted 2009-10-28 22:54:05
InterestedObserver, on 2009-10-22 16:28:55, said: All this talk about stopping kWh meters is interesting, but in the US it is illegal to have current flow through the grounding conductor (earthing conductor) IAW the National Electrical Code (NEC). This is for safety reasons, the grounding conductor is for personnel safety only. The neutral conductor is used to complete the circuit path. Fault current can, at times, momentarily flow through the grounding conductor. SWER transmission lines are an entirely different subject.
ok this post sounds like it could be some fun to answer!
please tell me how SWER is different from using a grounding conductor for your neutral return?
SWER transmission lines are a different subject??? so by using a grounding conductor(earthing conductor) as a neutral return this does not make it a SWER system????
SWER = Single Wire Earth Return
for those who dont understand what this is, SWER is a system that only uses one wire to feed you electricity, sound strange??? only one wire??? I know you are thinking but you need two wires to make a light work!!!!
yes you are right!!!
so what they do is earth the neutral at the transformer and then use a metal rod in the ground as the second wire. ???? lost????
here is an example of what I mean and I dont want people testing this out!!! PLEASE DONT TRY THIS AT HOME, OR WORK FOR THAT MATTER!!!
if you take the phase wire (the one that gives you a shock) and took it outside and conected it to a light bulb, then conected the other side of the light bulb to a metal rod into the ground it would work! this is using the dirt (earth) as a big wire back to the transformer. hence the name Single Wire Earth Return.
this is why when you touch the phase wire you get a shock, the electricity flow from the phase wire through you to the ground making a circuit.
so it makes you wonder what would happen if there was no earthing systems at all on transformersand homes ect. hmmmmmmm it would mean that both wires were phase wires and the only way you could get a shock was to touch both wires! you could touch any single wire and not get a shock. but I wont go into that here as that would cause lots of arguements!!!
whislt I am at it here is me being picky about your post, just for fun as I know what you mean.
correction, it is not illegal to have the current flow through a grounding conductor in the US as after all that is the whole purpose of a grounding conductor, to have current flow through it, in a fault situation!!!
might as well add some more interesting things in here for fun, I know it is off topic but hey way not. electric can be fun and talking about it can also be fun so here is a post that is put up for ............. fun!
in a DC system what way do the elctrons flow? positive to negative? or negative to positive?
now after answering that one what do electrons do in a AC circuit???
the answers are simple, in a DC system electrons flow from negative to positive, but this was found out after the laws of electric were written, so instead of changing the books and the laws and setting it right the world has decided that we will just carry on as it is, although things are wrong the laws and rules are backwards!
this is one if the things about electric that is not really spoken about, because it means that all teaching on this topic is wrong.
now the AC side of things is interesting, the electrons flow both ways, the speed of the direction change is set by the cycles. so as a rule the only thing that makes a Phase wire different from a Neutral is that the Neutral wire has been conected to earth at the transformer.
now in NZ we use a MEN link (main Earth nuetral link), this joins the Earth to the Neutral, so in reality they are the same. the only difference is that one is green and the other is black as when it comes to the load center there is a big fat joiner that joins the two together.
this is why when you touch the nuetral wire you dont get a shock, as there is no circuit, the Neutral is conected to earth! it is conected to earth at the transformer and in the house.
there is some crazy information for you that is in some ways off topic but in many way it is still about electricity and that is what solar power is about.
Posted 2009-11-05 11:03:13
bangkokumpalumpa, on 2009-10-18 15:12:26, said: as for stopping a standard meter.
check out SWER single wire earth return
wiki SWER
the funny thing is if you set up a system that is wired with a standard meter then there is no return to the meter, the result is the meter does not work!!!
At the end of the 19th century, Nikola Tesla demonstrated that only a single wire was necessary for power systems, with no need for a wired return conductor (using the Earth instead).[5] Lloyd Mandeno fully developed SWER in New Zealand around 1925 for rural electrification. Although he termed it “Earth Working Single Wire Line” it was often called “Mandeno’s Clothesline”. More than 200,000 kilometres have now been installed in Australia and New Zealand. It is considered safe, reliable and low cost, provided that safety features and earthing are correctly installed. The Australian standards are widely used and cited. It has been applied in Saskatchewan of Canada, Brazil, Africa, portions of the United States' Upper Midwest, and SWER interties have been proposed for Alaska and prototyped.
an old system that is in use today but the interesting thing is that the modern systems cant meter this, just some food for thought,
I DO NOT RECCOMEND YOU INSTALL THIS SYSTEM
this has been posted for informational purposes only
I recall some extensive ground mats being required if electricity is near farm animals, such as dairy cows. Seems there was a path to PE, Positive Earth, for electricity and it was lighting up Elsie's teets!
In the US, the neutral conductor is ground in the service feeder, or secondary. Once there is a main breaker the ground is connectd to earth ground. The neutral, groundED conducter, is floated from ground - or isolated. The earth ground is the grondING conductor after the main breaker (or fuse) and seperate from the neutral groundED conductor.
In Thailand the ground is the kid with the longest arms, sadly.
Edited by ding, 2009-11-05 11:09:23.
Posted 2009-11-05 21:25:02
elkangorito, on 2009-10-24 20:18:13, said: Not solar power but a great device that works. It's by no means a new idea...been around for a while.
http://www.lutec.com.au/
Yes perpetual motion machines have been long sought after. They are all against the law however.
( usually the 2nd law of thermodynamics)
Posted 2009-11-06 14:37:50
ding, on 2009-11-05 11:03:13, said: In the US, the neutral conductor is ground in the service feeder, or secondary. Once there is a main breaker the ground is connectd to earth ground. The neutral, groundED conducter, is floated from ground - or isolated. The earth ground is the grondING conductor after the main breaker (or fuse) and seperate from the neutral groundED conductor.
I don't think so, the National Electric Code (NEC) requires that the white (neutral) conductor be permanently grounded close to the service entrance for all typical residential installations. By definition a grounded conductor cannot be isolated or floating from earth ground.
Edited by InterestedObserver, 2009-11-06 14:42:54.
Posted 2009-11-06 15:58:52
bangkokumpalumpa, on 2009-10-28 22:54:05, said: InterestedObserver, on 2009-10-22 16:28:55, said: All this talk about stopping kWh meters is interesting, but in the US it is illegal to have current flow through the grounding conductor (earthing conductor) IAW the National Electrical Code (NEC). This is for safety reasons, the grounding conductor is for personnel safety only. The neutral conductor is used to complete the circuit path. Fault current can, at times, momentarily flow through the grounding conductor. SWER transmission lines are an entirely different subject.
SWER transmission lines are a different subject??? so by using a grounding conductor(earthing conductor) as a neutral return this does not make it a SWER system????
<snip, snip>
Transmission lines operate in the high voltage range, typically 69 kV or above, while kWh meters are normally installed on low voltages systems. There is a difference, especially when it comes to safety related issues. Neutral is a defined return path for the load, thus a current carrying conductor. A grounding conductor is used for safety grounding of equipment only and by regulation cannot be used to carry load current.
Posted 2009-11-06 21:28:05
it is against regulation to stop your meter !!!! but it can be done, high voltage or low voltage it doesnt matter you can still use swer. like I put in my post it is not legal, but it does work!!!
as for safety, here is a thought for you how is it more dangerous?? I think standard thai wiring would be classed as more dangerous!!!
by earthing your neutral you are in fact making them the same line, the only difference it where the return current goes after the load center, in this case not throught the meter. regulation and physics are two different things!!!
the physics of SWER are the same as using your earth as a return path.
the trick that is used to tweek a meter is to add extra heavy duty earth rods!!
as for lighting up Elsie's teets I have read a few things about that, this would imply that the current flows through the dirt like a river and takes the least line of resistance, and at time it was good old Elsie that had the least line of resistance for those few feet !!
#39
elkangorito
Posted 2009-11-06 22:19:29
My comments in blue.
thatguy, on 2009-11-05 21:25:02, said: elkangorito, on 2009-10-24 20:18:13, said: Not solar power but a great device that works. It's by no means a new idea...been around for a while.
http://www.lutec.com.au/
Yes perpetual motion machines have been long sought after. They are all against the law however.
( usually the 2nd law of thermodynamics)
bangkokumpalumpa, on 2009-11-06 21:28:05, said: it is against regulation to stop your meter !!!! but it can be done, high voltage or low voltage it doesnt matter you can still use swer. like I put in my post it is not legal, but it does work!!!
The "SWER system" & "stopping your KWH meter from turning" are 2 different things. An SWER system does not mean that obtaining electrical power illegally is easier than from any other system.
as for safety, here is a thought for you how is it more dangerous?? I think standard thai wiring would be classed as more dangerous!!!
by earthing your neutral you are in fact making them the same line, the only difference it where the return current goes after the load center, in this case not throught the meter. regulation and physics are two different things!!!
the physics of SWER are the same as using your earth as a return path.
Not in the USA, where the NEC says that an SWER system may not be used UNLESS special permission is obtained.
the trick that is used to tweek a meter is to add extra heavy duty earth rods!!
The "trick" that you described to me in a PM, has nothing to do about using a heavy duty earth rod(s)...it's all about bypassing the KWH meter.
as for lighting up Elsie's teets I have read a few things about that, this would imply that the current flows through the dirt like a river and takes the least line of resistance, and at time it was good old Elsie that had the least line of resistance for those few feet !!
I would advise you to stick to topics/subjects in which you are competent.
Edited by elkangorito, 2009-11-06 22:20:46.
Posted 2009-11-07 09:56:16
If you are speaking of their "over unity" device, it is by definition a perpetual motion machine.
Their patent is for a method of controlling a rotary device, not really related to gathering more power than expended to generate it.
If they could do that, they'd hardly be looking for investors to help them rule the world.
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