47 replies to this topic
Posted 2009-10-10 14:10:53
Any opinions on choosing between these two?
(For my teenage daughter, low mileage use, in the the neighborhood driving only)
Posted 2009-10-10 14:31:17
Only an opinion, not based on any specs or price: which one would your daughter prefer? My neighbor bought a new Scoopy a week ago, and parked next to a Fino, looks like a cheap wannabe copy. But - your daughter might want it because of influence of her crowd. Unless it's to be a complete surprise, why not take her to both dealerships and let her try both, then make a decision together?
Best thing you could buy for her as an accessory is a full-face helmet in the scooter colors that she *must* wear.
Posted 2009-10-10 15:14:58
Agree about the full face helmet, but lots of luck on that issue
I looked at a Scoopi the other day; they quoted me 44,800. I think the Fino is a few grand cheaper. I've heard that the (2008?) Fino was given a substantial improvement and has more power. The Scoopi is Fuel Injected and can run on Regular 91, Gasohol 91&95 and E20. The Scoopi underseat storage was almost nonexistant.
Posted 2009-10-10 15:39:10
I have definitely opinions on these two. First off, the Honda offering samples I've seen in a couple of Pattaya shopping malls seem to have larger tires than any Fino or Honda Click I've seen, standard. This makes the Honda more roadworthy at higher speeds. But when I asked the Thai person in charge of one of the displays the man told me the Scoopi is air cooled and not water cooled such as the Honda Click or Air Blade. It has the Italian Vespa retro look the Fino has but my first impression is that this Honda look a like of a look a like is not nearly as beautiful as Yamaha's Fino. Yamaha got the look and the lines just right. So it looks like Honda suddenly woke up from another of its Rip Van Winkle slumbers (here in Thailand that is), realized Yamaha was kicking its butt again in one of the Thai market segments and suddenly rushed something in to compete with it. Looks like I'll soon be doing a little more online research on the Scoopi.
Edited by jackcorbett, 2009-10-10 15:40:43.
Posted 2009-10-10 17:32:50
Just looking at the photo makes me think of a cartoon bike Just a quick note that the Yamaha Fino (as we know it in the 125cc version) was first offered for sale in 2004.
Honda really messed up by not selling the Scoopy here first before Yamaha rolled out the first Fino!
Posted 2009-10-10 18:36:03
Fino is 115cc, same as Mio. same engine as Nuovo MX except for the carb with manual choke. Fino was not available in LOS 2004, Mio was. Perhaps 2006.
Posted 2009-10-10 19:44:41
Thats been said before.. But the Nuovo MX puts out more power than the mio / fino and the parts are not direct swap. They are close but the nuovo isnt exact clone.
Posted 2009-10-10 20:06:13
I think you are right. 2006. I bought my girlfriend of those days a nice bright red one and she was a real beauty. It was an utterly charming little bike and I enjoyed driving it but for some reason it did not have the power my Nouvo MX had even though both had the 113 c.c. air cooled engine. And I'm pretty such that the Fino has not upgraded to the 135 c.c. water cooled engine the Elegance has.
And as for Honda I think it's been riding on the reputation that its cars have made and bikes from years back and that it is extremely backward in certain markets...eg. the Thai market and the U.S. market. I'm suddenly finding out that in some parts of the world Honda's offering that 300 c.c. scooter and that suddenly it's waking up to the idea of sending a 150 c.c. model like the one I saw in Vietnam to the U.S. where it will be sold for around 4500 bucks. But for all these years in the U.S. you had a choice between dirt bikes. Harley look alike cruisers such as the Shadow V twin, crotch rockets, its top of the line Gold Wings or its twin cylinder 250 c.c. Rebel which produces all of 17 horsepower, which is about the same as the single cylinder 200 c.c. Phantom. Meanwhile in Japan and other countries it's offered that nice 250 c.c. bike it's apparently about to introduce in Thailand with a water cooled 29 horsepower V-twin for years. I don't like the seating positions of those cruisers. You sit there with your ass close to the ground as you are reaching up for those handle bars. And there's too much chrome to keep cleaned. So that rules out the Phantom for me here in Thailand. And at six feet and 62 years old I think I'd look a little goofy and too large on the 150 CBR. Plus I don't think its riding position would be too uncomfortable for me and its seat too small and hard. Honda obviously has the expertise, the engineering and the products (somewhere else in the world) but I do think the company deserves to get its ass kicked in Thailand whether that's by Yamaha, Kawasaki, Susuki or whomever for being so complacent and backward.
Posted 2009-10-10 20:24:22
absolutely agree...embarrassing for Honda to oversleep for so long and i am glad to see they are getting their a$es kicked....some of the Head management should also make way for more dynamic & creative people...
Edited by mbox, 2009-10-10 20:25:35.
Posted 2009-10-10 21:07:00
I saw the Scoopyi up close for the first time yesterday.
If it is Honda's answer to the Fino, they have failed miserably. I actually thought it was a Malaysian copy bike until I got closer. It's lines are nowhere near as nice as the Fino. Bulky and unattractive.
Posted 2009-10-10 21:14:11
just looked at the Scoopyi photos online. holy rip off from Yamaha, Batman! they look ok, but they are almost identical to a Fino. why do something the same and try to take the market? that's just silly...
Posted 2009-10-11 07:23:54
OK, I have read the ten previous posts which gave opinions in response to my OP.
Many of the opinions seem to favor the Fino for looks and because it preceded the Scoopy-i.
Are these the only reasons to base the buying decision?
My daughter has seen both and would be delighted by either model. (as far as looks.)
Price-wise the difference between these two models doesn't seem appreciable.
I have had a look at the Scoopy-i at a local shop where I am on good terms with several of the staff.
Actually, I went in to look at the Click-i, but when I mentioned it was for my daughter, the staff steered me to the Scoopy-i. They said the price was 2,000 less than the Click-i I asked about.
I talked to the head mechanic there about these two(Click-i & Scoopy-i) and he gave what seemed a reasonable answer. He said besides the exterior style of the two, the main difference was that the Click was water-cooled and the Scoopy air-cooled. If the bike was going to be driven on a 20 km. commute everyday the Click was the better choice, (but if fuel consumption is a consideration the Wave was even better.) If the bike was going to driven only to do a bit of shopping every now and then and visit relatives in our neighborhood then the air-cooled would do.
The reason I asked about the Fino is that I want a bit of info on it before I go into the Yamaha shop to look at it.
Posted 2009-10-11 20:27:58
Let's see. 20 kilometers a day. If your daughter drove the Fino 1000 days EVERY DAY that's just 20,000 kilometers. I drove my air cooled Nouvo close to 14,000 kilometers and it took three years to do that. There's still nothing gone wrong with it and it's now nearly four years old. although my neighbor now owns it. I am suggesting at 20 kilometers a day without her taking a single day off your daughter will have no serious problems with a Fino for at least 3.5 years.
Let me tell you a little story. I used to farm and at first I owned Case tractors. One thing I noticed is that a lot of Case tractors would be laid up at the dealership split in half because they were having their transmissions worked on. Now this was a crackerjack dealership so they sold a lot of tractors out of that dealership. I had bought a nice tractor there and it wasn't long before I had a gear go out in the back end of the tractor. The transmission was manual by the way. So I came to the conclusion that Case tractors had weak transmissions because 1. I had trouble with mine and 2. Because I saw so many of them getting their transmissions repaired. So I switched to John Deere and the first one I got had a 15 speed transmission that required no clutching whatsoever. My neighbor said that since it was not a fully manual transmission it would be unreliable. Well......I never had any problems with that tractor and certainly not with its transmission and when I bought a 2nd John Deere I never had a problem with it either. And if I ever saw a John Deere having its transmission worked on I might have seen one...Just one in the shop having that done.
Lesson to be learned is this, "If there's no smoke, there's no fire." I love my water cooled Nouvo Elegance 135 c.c.. but not once have I ever heard of anyone having any big problems with an air cooled Nouvo or a Fino or a Mio. I therefore conclude that these air cooled bikes for the most part will not have any problems until considerable mileage is piled on them or they are abused.
Edited by jackcorbett, 2009-10-11 20:31:17.
Posted 2009-10-12 08:37:25
Fino is technically same bike as Mio. After 2 years a new battery is usually needed, and at 30-50k km an autobelt at 990 baht. Sparkplug and airfilter every 10-12k km and of course oil every 4k km. Thats it. Still have 2 Mio 2004.
I m sure the Honda is reliable too.
Posted 2009-10-12 10:53:44
I have a Fino I am extremely happy with, 2009 app 3300km. I decided to sell my trusted Wave 125 and never regretted it. We use the Fino to scooter around Pattaya on and often cover +30 km a day. So much easier to ride with auto transmission and no chain drive to lubricate and adjust. A loose chain is extremely dangerous, can lock up the rear wheel and cause you to crash. (I did that on a borrowed Kawa 650 many years ago in Denmark, he-he, well only locked up I didn't crash as I was driving slowly when it happened)
In another tread somebody says: Buy a Wave, I say bullsh1t. Even motor bike taxi's nowadays are driving autos which is a sure indicator how reliable they are.
Saw the new Honda at big C and agree with most other posts, a cheap Fino copi, come-on Honda the biggest motor bike producer in the world can do better that that.
Posted 2009-10-13 00:44:58
I will not comment on the looks of any of the scooters talked about before, the looks and designs selection I found are very personal...
First who copy who, I believe we can all agree that the current wave of retro designed scooters found the inspiration in early 70's Italian scooters. If I look back in time, I cannot find Yamaha as ever being interested in the classic Italian design. Honda has the Scoopy in several designs and versions available a few months after Vespa introduced the world's first great new "hot" scooter design.
So I not comment about design or who is first or who is second. But what I can do is compare mechanics. The Yamaha Fino is powered by a 113cc engine is using a classic carburetor, one thing Yamaha not tells when they sell a Fino (or any other scooter/motorcycle equipped with a carburetor is that they indeed can run on any fuel, but work only perfect on one fuel the carburetor is tuned to run on). A fuel-injection system like used on the Honda Scoopy i, runs on any fuel, it will adapt and it will adjust the need of fueling, it will adjust to humidity, cold, or heat, it will run as efficient the moment you start it to the moment the engine is on the perfect temperature.
A Honda Scoopy i, will start always, it is impossible to fluid the carburetor, and it always runs perfect to the best GREEN exhaust emission possible....
** Yamaha is the last scooter manufacturer who produces scooters with carburetors. As it now stands both Honda and Suzuki has stated to not produce any none-green motorcycles or scooters in 2010.
Posted 2009-10-13 15:18:47
Maybe the Scoopy will run perfect on gasohol as it is a relatively small/simple engine we are talking about.
A friend of mine who bought a brand new Yamaha Frazer 1000cc (fuel injected) in 2008 tried to run gasohol and he lost app 10-15% power and fuel consumption when up app. 20% so he went straight back to benzine again.
Gasohol is not so green as many people think it is, try to read some articles about it and you will see.
It they really want to make true green bikes/cars the manufactures will have to make completely new concepts ala hybrid/H2. Some cars will in the future have solar panels on the roof, but that will of course be a bit difficult on a bike .
Battery powered cars are getting better and better all the time but are still struggling with high weight on the batteries and not lasting long before they needs recharging again so not perfect.
H2 is probably the future but still 20-30 years before they will hit the market. Well I am not an expert on these things so please fell free to correct me if you think/know I am wrong
Yes I agree regarding the design, taken straight from a 1950 Vespa, but it is selling and that is why Honda has made the Scoopy. Most people don't want Waves anymore, they want something "new" and fresh.
Posted 2009-10-13 15:53:50
Beg your pardon, but a 10-15% drop in power and 20% increase in fuel consumption is complete nonsense. Modern fuel injected engines run just fine on E10 gasohol. If your friend's 2008 Yamaha Fazer suffered that kind of performance change then there is/was something wrong with his motorcycle.
It's true that alcohol by volume does not contain as much energy as gasoline so it should in theory take a greater quantity of gasohol than it does gasoline, to drive an equal number of miles.
Personally I've run my fuel injected 250cc and 650cc motorcycles on E10 gasohol and 100% Benzene Gasoline to try to determine if there is a noticeable difference in fuel consumption. In my experience there is no measurable difference. I achieve the same mileage with both fuels on both engines.
I've yet to find any documentation that shows there is a measurable difference in horsepower, torque or fuel consumption between the two fuels in modern fuel injected engines.
I do agree that "biofuels" such as gasohol and bio-diesel are definitely not as "green" and eco-friendly as we are led to believe.
Posted 2009-10-13 20:16:05
I run my 2010 Ninja650 on 91 benzene first 1000 km and next 1000 km I have mostly used 95 E10 gasohol. Not been able to measure any difference in milage or performance between the fuels. Not been able to measure any difference on my 2008 Honda Accord 2,4 too, at 70k km.
According to Volvo, who is the first supplyer of E85 fuel cars in LOS, milage is almost half when running E85 (85% ethanol) compared to benzene. So there is a difference, but probably not possible to measure when running E10, espesially not when 95 E10 replaces 91 benzene.
However gasohol evaporates more quickly, so if vehicle is to be parked for a long time, mileage can look bad.
LOS government reason for biofuel is not really environment, it is to reduce expensive $ imported benzene/diesel. However environment looks good in the ads
Edited by katabeachbum, 2009-10-13 20:21:41.
Posted 2009-10-14 00:09:45
Well I certainly got stirred up things regarding consumption/performance on an engine running gasohol or gasoline, he-he. Well you guys have personally tried both products and I haven't so I stand humbled.
I currently own 3 vehicles: 1: Fino 2009 (tank cap on fuel tank says 91 gasohol but mechanic says don't use it). 2: HD road king 2002 carb. (Aussie mechanic, yes can use gasohol but harden O-rings in carb, can use if only option). 3: Honda City 2006 (car sales man, only use gasohol on long trips don't use for Pattaya shopping trips).
So on above vehicles I always use benzine. Hope it will still be available in the future but I doubt it. Anybody knows anything regarding this??
Posted 2009-10-14 17:45:28
Sounds like this Scoopyi is a Honda Icon with different plastics? Myself I would go for a Mio/Fino for a small bike and a Nouvo for more heavier demands (like two persons or a larger person like a farang). Its a no brainer; loads of these Yamaha autos around with spares/servicing easily available. Honda has missed the boat... Although people are now buying the Honda autos because its a Honda.
In IT we used to have a saying 'You can't go wrong buying IBM'. Nowadays you would be mad to buy IBM; basically they lost it like Honda is loosing it. If you want to buy spares for your bike for the next 30 years, buy a Honda, otherwise buy what you think is good and replace it in 5/10 years
Posted 2009-10-15 09:50:43
Yamaha has fuel injection in its 135 c.c. Spark models. One thing I've noticed is that when the Yamaha 135 c.c. Nouvo Elegance came out if offered for carburetion tps which stands for throttle body sensor. tps--throttle body sensor From what I have gleaned from various web sites tps gets better combustion efficiency. The 113 c.c. Nouvo MX didn't have this--the Elegance does. From a seat of the pants feel, my new Elegance gets better fuel economy than my old Nouvo MX.
Does anyone know much about this type of carburetion? How much of an improvement does it make re smoothness of the engine, fuel efficiency, etc?
One thing Yamaha did achieve with the Elegance. It held its pricing down. Three years before I bought my Elegance I paid 53000 baht for my Nouvo MX. Three years later I paid 52000 baht for the new Elegance. And the Elegance is much more bike as it's smoother, quieter, significantly more powerful and it handles noticeably better than the MX did.
Edited by jackcorbett, 2009-10-15 09:51:50.
Posted 2009-10-16 10:01:25
I think I am going to look at the Jelato (Suzuki). I have lots of friends with Finos and all of them have had problems with them, just little nitty things like not starting in the mornings, lots of tyre changes etc, and generally not satisfied. The Scoobyi is ugly. Very cheap Fino copy for more money by the sounds of it.
The Suzuki Jelato is not as nice looking as the Fino either (though it at least had tried to look a bit unique as opposd to the Scooby), but it has basically a Step engine (125cc), and my friends who have Steps think they are great. Also being Suzuki it is cheap! Think Honda totally misjudged the market by producing something essentially inferior in every way to either of it's competitors.
Posted 2009-10-16 18:45:06
dont like either bike but this new honda due out next month will be a good buy if you are in the market.
it isthe new pcx 125i.