Please log in to reply 7 replies to this topic

[ThaiLife]

Ive got a Suzuki Raider 150,  which now seems  has an electrical problem ( Alternator ) Ive tried the local motorcycle guy's
but when they hear the words Raider they go into a trance like smiling state . So before I put the Raider onto the back of the pickup and
spend the day traveling to the nearest Suzuki dealer, I am looking for some one who knows the Raider 150 and could possibly
answer a few questions to see if my diagnosis is correct - any One ?  


Thanks



TL

[H2oDunc]

Can't help with your problem but found the Raider to be the most uncomcortable, badly designed bike I have ever ridden and I have ridden a lot. An excellent motor but the whole layout etc is utter crap. Rant over Cheers

Edited by H2oDunc, 2009-10-20 15:48:38.

[thaicbr]

Thailife. What is the problem. is it that the battery does not charge. the bike does not start ... what? if it is the battery not charging it could be the rectifier. sometimes just unplugging it and cleaning the connectors can help. I had a CBR250 that bunt out the connectors they just had to be replaced and all was ok.
More info would be good. Allan

Also H2o. I like muff diving does that count.

Edited by thaicbr, 2009-10-20 16:07:17.

[ThaiLife]

thaicbr, on 2009-10-20 16:06:00, said:

Thailife. What is the problem. is it that the battery does not charge. the bike does not start ... what? if it is the battery not charging it could be the rectifier. sometimes just unplugging it and cleaning the connectors can help. I had a CBR250 that bunt out the connectors they just had to be replaced and all was ok.
More info would be good. Allan

Also H2o. I like muff diving does that count.

Hi, Its a short some where on the alternator ( stator coils ) I will take a few photos and post back so you can see the problem a bit better ,  


Thanks

[thaicbr]

if its that then your gonna have to stickit on the pickup and take it to a Suzuki dealer. there may be a wait for parts.

[ThaiLife]

This is what is going on with the Raider,  I went to switch the bike on I turned the ignition key and no warning instrument lights came on as usual, I then checked the battery with a volt meter and it was flat, I re charged the battery and put it back, left the bike for a day , and when I went back and switched on the ignition key , the warning lights came on but very dim. I checked the battery again and found it was very low , as I touched one of the battery connectors to a battery terminal, it made a big spark. So thinking I had left the ignition switched on, I had a look and  its was in the off position. Then I took out the key , made sure every thing was switched off on the bike , and touched the battery lead cable connector to the battery terminal , again there was still a spark. Thinking that there must be a short circuit some where, I then disconnected all the electrical parts One by One to find where the short was, finally I found if I un plugged the cable going to the stator coils , the spark stopped .


This is the lead going into the housing that connects to the stator coils..




I then removed the casing to see the coils...



( A ) is a magnetic sensor and there's no problem with that

( B ) is One wire from the coils that seems to be connected to the metal base that all the coils are assembled around


( C ) + ( D ) are the two wires that if I un plug there is no spark on the battery terminal , if they are connected to the Raider electrics then there' a spark
on the battery terminal .


The Two connectors ..

( A ) The magnetic sensor   ( C ) + ( D ) The coil connector




The bike with the casing removed ...




So coils connected , there's a spark on the battery terminals . not connected , there no spark


I know it looks like an open and shut case of the coils being faulty, but from past experience with bike electrics , thing's don't all ways act the way electrically
as the normally suppose to do.

I dont understand why the ( B ) coil  connection seems to be grounded

If I put my test Ω meter on ground ( metal coil base ) and then to ( B ) or ( C ) or ( D ) they all show a short to ground ?

I know there all so a rectifier unit on the Raider , but if I disconnect this it makes no difference, the problem still seem's to be with the coils

As I live a long way from a Suzuki repair shop . I want to try and confirm fully that the problem is in fact with the coils some where, before I make the long journey

One last thing , when I removed the casing to see the coils, there was a lot of oil inside the casing, so it seems that the coils and sensor are running in oil. I am not too sure if this  is correct or not.


so is my diagnoses correct ... its the coils or am I missing some thing  



Thanks  

TL

[MaiChai]

Your local bike shop should be able to sort this out for you. There is nothing special about the Raider when it comes to the charging circuit; if fact alot of the bits look very similar to the Smash (of which we have one).

I will take a look at my Honda Standard Repair manual when I get home to see what it says, but from my electrical days, you have a three phase AC alternator, which goes into a rectifier which makes DC, which then charges your battery. There may be less phases on a bike to save money.

Taking alook at the coils, they look a little hand made; I mean the coils don't look like they have been wound by a machine, and I wonder if they have been rewound by someone? Also is that lacqure sprayed over coils or has the enamel broken down?

Since the windings wire is so thick, you won't be able to check its resistance; I mean it will appear to be shorted.

I know when I lived up country there was only one engineer who could fix problems like this; everyone else was basically low educated and did not have a clue (including the other bike shops). If it is the coil then you can get replacements quite easily. I suspect its the same as on a Smash.

PS: The A connectors generate the pulse for your spark and should go to the CDI (which has a power transistor in it to fire to the ignition coil). This is pretty reliable and it won't start without this.

One of my NSRs has had a replacement coil; looks quite different to the original, but it does the job, so I would say you can get copy new coils quite easily.

Running in oil is fine and a good way to cool it. Thats what they use in those big transformers you see by the road!!! Oil is a good insulator too.

Edited by MaiChai, 2009-10-21 00:04:13.

[MaiChai]

Ok, you have the two coil design (or two phases). One side of each coil is connected to ground, the other sides are on the two pin connector you have. What you could do is charge up your battery. Then get a small 12v light bulb and connect one side to the frame (or ground) and disconnect the alternator connector. Then start the bike (kickstart is best to save power in the battery) and connect the other side of the bulb to one of the connectors from the alternator, and then to the other connector for the alternator. Don't leave the bulb connected for long just incase it puts load on the alternator (overloading it temporarily will be fine; if you connect it for long and its overloading the alternator then it will burn out the windings). You should see the bulb light up quite healthly, although it might flicker due to being AC. Make sure the rpms are not too high otherwise you may blow the bulb!

If this is fine then move onto the rectifier/regulator; this basically converts AC to DC and regulates the voltage getting to the battery. This could be blown, meaning no volts coming out. Ideally you should stick a DC ampmeter between its output and the battery, to confirm current is flowing. Check its connected to the chassis properly (typically they have a heat sink type arrangement and may need to be bolted to the frame to provide the negative connection).