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[Gippy]

tutsiwarrior, on 2009-11-11 12:10:44, said:

with regards to the sticking during baking, what's to prevent one from simply greasing the contact between the dough and the pot?

Nothing, I rub butter on the inside of my loaf pans before I bake bread in them and they come out easily.

[tutsiwarrior]

that's what I figured...an' here I was thinkin' that I'd haveta go to BKK to find cornmeal to stay true to the method...

[jaideeguy]

My last loaf was baked in one of those cheap stainless mixing bowls that i greased up with butter only and it slid out easily.  Just for fun, I sprinkled some sesame seeds on top and they added a little flavor.  getting better each time......

[tutsiwarrior]

well...just tried my first time and the mixture, after sittin' fer about 24 hrs has the consistency of watery wall paper glue; no way I can shape a loaf outta that...

gonna try again...3 cups flour to 1 1/2 cups warm water, right?...using fermipan red yeast...

[jaideeguy]

It's supposed to be a bit wet and sticky and is hard to manage, but you can salvage it by simply adding more flour to the dough mixing and letting it rise again.  I use a plastic rice paddle to shape and move the dough.  If you are doing the covered method, then don't worry if it is a little too wet as it is the steam that cooks it and gives the crust a crunchy/chewy texture.

yes the ratio is roughly 2 flour to 1 yeast.....don't know about the red yeast....seems I read some discussion on the red package somewhere else on this forum.....one is for high sugar and the other is for low sugar content.
good luck and don't give up....even my first mistakes were edible/delicious.

[tutsiwarrior]

just added about 3/4 cup of flour an' mixed it in using a wood spatula....covered an' will let sit until tonight an' we'll see what happens...

ye gotta clean up any dribbles from the mixture that gets on counter surfaces straight away...when that stuff dries you need dynamite to pry it loose...I have a story about domestic violence that occurred when tempura batter was not cleaned up many years ago...

nice yeasty aroma to the mixture so sumpin' is working right...

[metisdead]

Ok, a week or so ago my first attempt resulted in a brick.  2nd attempt turned out good, baked it in a Baker's Secret loaf pan, these pans require no treatment (greasing the pan etc), the loaf falls out soon as you take it out of the oven.  3rd attempt I added 3/4 cup of soaked oats and left it over night.  Appeared to be too much for my Baker's Secret pan so I used my 2 quart oblong stoneware pot without the lid.  Turned out well.

In all attempts though so far, I too have had to add additional flour to get it to the sticky texture.

If you're looking for a Baker's Secret loaf pan, I found mine at Carrefour.

[tutsiwarrior]

it's 1:15 in the a.m. and the mixture still looks unstable after the addition of another cup of flour...fcukit; I'll toss the lot onto a floured counter top later on and flop it about an' see what I come up with...

dare to struggle, dare to win...

[jaideeguy]

I assume that you are working with the first recipe?? here is another variation that I made 1st batch yesteday and it's as easy as pie [easier....pies are hard to make].  My last batch I used a variation and added 7 grains, sunflower seeds and dusted with sesame seeds and it turned out great.  makes enough for 3 loaves and you can store in fridge or freezer which I did with the leftover. The following is a coppy and paste of the Mother Earth recipe.



Ingredients and Equipment
Great breads really only require four basic ingredients: flour, water, yeast and salt. The rest is detail. Here’s a short guide to the basic ingredients and equipment you’ll need to make artisan loaves.
Unbleached, white, all-purpose flour: Has adequate protein (around 10 percent) to create a satisfying “chew,” but low enough to prevent heaviness. We prefer unbleached flours because bleaching removes some protein, not to mention adding unnecessary chemicals.
Whole wheat flour: Contains the germ and bran, both of which are healthful and tasty. Together they add a slightly bitter, nutty flavor that many people enjoy.
Bread flour: For chewier bread, substitute bread flour (about 12 percent protein) for all-purpose white flour by decreasing the amount slightly (by about a quarter cup for every 6 cups of all-purpose).

Yeast: Use what’s readily available and buy in bulk rather than packets, which are much more expensive.

Salt: Use noniodized coarse kosher or sea salt.
Baking stone: Use a high-­quality, ­half-­inch-­thick stone. The porous stone absorbs moisture from your dough, allowing a thin, crackling, crisp crust to form — one of the keys to artisanal baking.
Pizza peel: This long-handled board helps slide doughs onto a hot stone. A cookie sheet or cutting board will work, but will be more difficult to handle.
Broiler tray: A pan to hold water for steam during baking.
The Master Recipe
The artisan free-form loaf called the French boule is the basic model for all the no-knead recipes. The round shape (boule in French means “ball”) is the easiest to master. You’ll learn how wet the dough needs to be (wet, but not so wet that the finished loaf won’t retain its form) and how to shape a loaf without kneading. And you’ll discover a truly revolutionary approach to baking: Take some dough from the fridge, shape it, leave it to rest, then let it bake while you’re preparing the rest of the meal.
Keep your dough wet — wetter doughs favor the development of sourdough character during storage. You should become familiar with the following recipe before going through any of the others.
Mixing and Storing the Dough
1. Heat the water to just a little warmer than body temperature (about 100 degrees Fahrenheit).
2. Add yeast and salt to the water in a 5-quart bowl or, preferably, in a resealable, lidded container (not airtight — use container with gasket or lift a corner). Don’t worry about getting it all to dissolve.
3. Mix in the flour by gently scooping it up, then leveling the top of the measuring cup with a knife; don’t pat down. Mix with a wooden spoon, a high-capacity food processor with dough attachment, or a heavy-duty stand mixer with dough hook, until uniformly moist. If hand-mixing becomes too difficult, use very wet hands to press it together. Don’t knead! This step is done in a matter of minutes, and yields a wet dough loose enough to conform to the container.
4. Cover loosely. Do not use screw-topped jars, which could explode from trapped gases. Allow the mixture to rise at room temperature until it begins to collapse (or at least flatten on top), approximately two hours, depending on temperature. Longer rising times, up to about five hours, will not harm the result. You can use a portion of the dough any time after this period. Refrigerated wet dough is less sticky and easier to work with than room-temperature dough. We recommend refrigerating the dough at least three hours before shaping a loaf. And relax! You don’t need to monitor doubling or tripling of volume as in traditional recipes.
5. Prepare a pizza peel by sprinkling it liberally with cornmeal to prevent the loaf from sticking to it when you slide it into the oven.
Sprinkle the surface of the dough with flour, then cut off a 1-pound (grapefruit-sized) piece with a serrated knife. Hold the mass of dough in your hands and add a little more flour as needed so it won’t stick to your hands. Gently stretch the surface of the dough around to the bottom on four “sides,” rotating the ball a quarter-turn as you go, until the bottom is a collection of four bunched ends. Most of the dusting flour will fall off; it doesn’t need to be incorporated. The bottom of the loaf will flatten out during resting and baking.
6. Place the ball on the pizza peel. Let it rest uncovered for about 40 minutes. Depending on the dough’s age, you may see little rise during this period; more rising will occur during baking.
7. Twenty minutes before baking, preheat oven to 450 degrees with a baking stone on the middle rack. Place an empty broiler tray for holding water on another shelf.
8. Dust the top of the loaf liberally with flour, which will allow the slashing, serrated knife to pass without sticking. Slash a 1⁄4-inch-deep cross, scallop or tick-tack-toe pattern into the top. (This helps the bread expand during baking.)
9. With a forward jerking motion of the wrist, slide the loaf off the pizza peel and onto the baking stone. Quickly but carefully pour about a cup of hot water into the broiler tray and close the oven door to trap the steam. Bake for about 30 minutes, or until the crust is browned and firm to the touch. With wet dough, there’s little risk of drying out the interior, despite the dark crust. When you remove the loaf from the oven, it will audibly crackle, or “sing,” when initially exposed to room temperature air. Allow to cool completely, preferably on a wire rack, for best flavor, texture and slicing. The perfect crust may initially soften, but will firm up again when cooled.
10. Refrigerate the remaining dough in your lidded (not airtight) container and use it over the next two weeks: You’ll find that even one day’s storage improves the flavor and texture of your bread. This maturation continues over the two-week period. Cut off and shape loaves as you need them. The dough can also be frozen in 1-pound portions in an airtight container and defrosted overnight in the refrigerator prior to baking day.

The Master Recipe: Boule
(Artisan Free-Form Loaf)
Makes 4 1-pound loaves
3 cups lukewarm water
1 1⁄2 tbsp granulated yeast (1 1⁄2 packets)
1 1⁄2 tbsp coarse kosher or sea salt
6 1⁄2 cups unsifted, unbleached, all-purpose white flour
Cornmeal for pizza peel

Tips to Amaze Your Friends
The “6-3-3-13” rule. To store enough for eight loaves, remember 6-3-3-13. It’s 6 cups water, 3 tablespoons salt, 3 tablespoons yeast, and then add 13 cups of flour. It’ll amaze your friends when you do this in their homes without a ­recipe!
Lazy sourdough shortcut. When your dough container is empty, don’t wash it! Just scrape it down and incorporate it into the next batch. In addition to saving cleanup, the aged dough stuck to the sides will give your new batch a head start on sourdough flavor.
Variation: Herb Bread. Add a couple teaspoons of your favorite dried herbs (double if fresh) to the water mixture.



Neapolitan Pizza Dough
The secrets to this pizza are to keep the crust thin, don’t overload it, and to bake it quickly at a high temperature so it ­doesn’t cook down to a soup. It’s unlike anything most of us are used to eating — especially if you make fresh mozzarella!
1 pound ­pre-­mixed boule dough
Cornmeal for covering the pizza peel
Topping: your favorite seasonal ingredients
20 minutes before baking, preheat the oven with a baking stone (scraped clean) at your oven’s maximum temperature — the hotter, the better. (Another option is to use the baking stone over a grill, which takes about two-thirds of the time.)
Prepare the toppings in advance. The key to a pizza that slides right off the peel is to work ­quickly.
Follow Step 5 of The Master Recipe (above).
Flatten the dough into a 1/8-inch-thick round with your hands and a rolling pin on a wooden board. Dust with flour to keep the dough from sticking. (A little sticking can help overcome the dough’s re­sis­tance to stretching, though, so don’t overuse flour.) You also can let the partially rolled dough relax for a few minutes to allow further rolling. Stretching by hand may help, followed by additional rolling. Place the rolled-­out dough onto a liberally ­cornmeal-­covered pizza peel.
Distribute your toppings over the surface, leaving some of its surface exposed so you can appreciate the individual ingredients — and the magnificent crust! — of the final product. No further resting is needed.
Turn on the exhaust fan (or use lower heat and bake a few minutes longer), because some of the cornmeal will smoke. Slide the pizza onto the stone (­back-­and-­forth shakes can help dislodge it). Check for doneness in 8 to 10 minutes. Turn the pizza around if one side is browning too fast. It may need up to 5 more minutes.
Allow to cool slightly on a rack before serving.

100 Percent Whole-Wheat Sandwich Bread
Whole wheat flour has a nutty, slightly bitter flavor, and it caramelizes easily, yielding a rich, brown loaf. Milk and honey are tenderizers, and their sweetness complements the bitter notes. Although we’ve showcased a loaf-pan method here, this dough also makes lovely free-form loaves on a baking stone.
1 1⁄2 tbsp granulated yeast (1 1⁄2 packets)
1 tbsp plus 1 tsp salt
1/2 cup honey
5 tbsp neutral-flavored oil, plus more for greasing the pan
1 1⁄2 cups lukewarm milk
1 1⁄2 cups lukewarm water
6 2⁄3 cups whole wheat flour
Mix the yeast, salt, honey, oil, milk and water in a 5-quart bowl or other container.
Mix in the flour using a spoon, high-capacity food processor with dough attachment, or a heavy-duty stand mixer with dough hook.
Cover loosely, and allow to rest at room temperature until the dough rises and collapses (or flattens on top); about 2 to 3 hours.
The dough can be used immediately after the initial rise, though it is easier to handle when cold. Refrigerate in a lidded (not airtight) container and use over the next several days.
On baking day, lightly grease a 9-by-4-by-3-inch loaf pan. Using wet hands, scoop out a 11⁄2 pound (cantaloupe-sized) hunk of dough. Keeping your hands wet (it’ll be sticky!), quickly shape it into a ball following the method in Step 5 of The Master Recipe (above).
Drop the loaf into the prepared pan. You’ll want enough dough to fill the pan slightly more than half-full.
Allow the dough to rest for 1 hour and 40 minutes. Flour the top of the loaf and slash, using the tip of a serrated bread knife.
5 minutes before baking time, preheat the oven to 350 degrees, with an empty broiler tray on another shelf.
Place the loaf in the center of the oven. Pour 1 cup of hot water into the broiler tray and quickly close the door. Bake for 50 to 60 minutes, or until deeply browned and firm.
Allow to cool completely before slicing in order to cut reasonable sandwich slices.
Makes 3 1 1⁄2 pound loaves.

[tutsiwarrior]

hadta bin the mixture: poured it out onto a floured surface an' what a mess...gonna go back to makin' flour tortillas

haven't given up...just to give it a rest for the moment. seems to me that ye gotta stick to the 2:1 flour to water ratio to get the desired result...with all the added flour to improve texture I was upta 4:1...sorta defeats the purpose...

maybe I used too much yeast? I was using 'Kite' all purpose flour.

Edited by tutsiwarrior, 2009-11-13 18:58:47.

[HDRIDER]

Hi
For people there dont want any mess.
Raisin bread

Attached Files

•  03.10.09_014.JPG   506.11K   18 downloads
•  08.10.09_003.JPG   727.41K   13 downloads

[metisdead]

Here's another different version from the original no-knead bread recipe on this thread.  

http://ourkitchen.fi...ne-popes-bread/

This afternoon I had already stirred up batch of the original recipe, found this one, added the sesame seeds and went with this version's way of doing it. Quicker and it turned out tasty.

[tutsiwarrior]

HDRIDER, on 2009-11-15 11:09:31, said:

Hi
For people there dont want any mess.
Raisin bread

that loaf looks mighty good; where'd ye get that Severin bread maker? I brought a Severin yogurt maker back from the UK and now have fantastic, unsweetened natural yogurt with no muss, no fuss...I gloat in triumph as there is no good yogurt commercially available here in rural Suphan...

gotta admit, the necessary clean up with these other 'simple' techniques puts one off the activity; I've given up entirely with flour tortillas...maybe better to get tooled up an' back to the 21st century...

space bread...whooosh...

[sparkey]

And if you haven't got an oven???

[fremmel]

I made some raisin bread yesterday using the technique I posted in post #5. I just cut off a chunk of dough and rolled it out thin, spread on some brown sugar, cinnamon, and raisins, rolled it up and baked it in a loaf pan. I had to flour the work surface pretty heavily since the dough is so sticky. I had some as toast this morning with a bowl of homemade yogurt with apple and a smidgen of wild honey for breakfast. Very tasty.    

When I was in BKK last week I picked up 5 kg of "premium" all purpose flour and it made nice a difference in how my bread is turning out. Much thinner crust. I also picked up some rye flour and tried 1 cup of that with 5 1/2 cups of AP. The bread turned out nice but without a lot of rye flavor or color. I'll have to work on that some more.  

The place I got the flour has lots of goodies. I usually have them send stuff up here to Udon but since I was in BKK I just picked it up. The AP flour was 34 bt/kg and and I also got corn meal (46 bt/kg), raw pumpkin seeds (270 bt/kg), red beans (75 bt/kg), golden raisins (280 bt/kg), and some other stuff. The place is called BBI (02-258-5980) and is a very low tech, warehouse operation with no store front. But you can call (Thai only) and have them send stuff or drop by and they'll sell you things over the counter. If there's any interest I can post scans of their price list.    

Here's a couple of pics of the raisin and rye bread:
 Whole.jpg   50.17K   6 downloads  Cut.jpg   51.92K   11 downloads

[tutsiwarrior]

sure would be nice to have a proper rolling pin...couldn't find one anywhere so used an empty Leo boddle an' now 'I got blisters on me fingers!'

[HDRIDER]

tutsiwarrior, on 2009-11-21 04:07:30, said:

HDRIDER, on 2009-11-15 11:09:31, said:

Hi
For people there dont want any mess.
Raisin bread

that loaf looks mighty good; where'd ye get that Severin bread maker? I brought a Severin yogurt maker back from the UK and now have fantastic, unsweetened natural yogurt with no muss, no fuss...I gloat in triumph as there is no good yogurt commercially available here in rural Suphan...

gotta admit, the necessary clean up with these other 'simple' techniques puts one off the activity; I've given up entirely with flour tortillas...maybe better to get tooled up an' back to the 21st century...

space bread...whooosh...

Hi
I got this one from SB design, also have them in Central festival (Phuket), but have heard they have them in other places 4000B, and it is great bread, just put everything in and forget about it,,, it will call you when the bread is finish

[tutsiwarrior]

fremmel, on 2009-11-21 09:33:34, said:

The place I got the flour has lots of goodies. I usually have them send stuff up here to Udon but since I was in BKK I just picked it up. The AP flour was 34 bt/kg and and I also got corn meal (46 bt/kg), raw pumpkin seeds (270 bt/kg), red beans (75 bt/kg), golden raisins (280 bt/kg), and some other stuff. The place is called BBI (02-258-5980) and is a very low tech, warehouse operation with no store front. But you can call (Thai only) and have them send stuff or drop by and they'll sell you things over the counter. If there's any interest I can post scans of their price list.

sounds great...I've been missin' corn bread and there ain't no corn meal hereabouts...

for ordering purposes how d'ye say corn meal in thai?...if they ship it what is the payment arrangement?

[fremmel]

The item on my invoice for corn meal said  ข้าวโพดหยาบ. But they probably understand the English name of the items they stock even though they don't speak English. I have my wife talk to them but if I don't know the Thai name I tell her the English name and that's how she orders it.

You can pay for shipments by doing an ATM transfer to their bank account (Bangkok Bank). They'll figure the price with shipping and tell you how much to send.

By they way, I read the invoice wrong for the red beans price. It was 75 baht for 1/2 kg so it's actually 150 bt/kg.

Do they have a full size Tesco Lotus where you are? Surprisingly enough that's where I found my rolling pin.

[tutsiwarrior]

fremmel, on 2009-11-22 10:25:51, said:

The item on my invoice for corn meal said  ข้าวโพดหยาบ. But they probably understand the English name of the items they stock even though they don't speak English. I have my wife talk to them but if I don't know the Thai name I tell her the English name and that's how she orders it.

You can pay for shipments by doing an ATM transfer to their bank account (Bangkok Bank). They'll figure the price with shipping and tell you how much to send.

By they way, I read the invoice wrong for the red beans price. It was 75 baht for 1/2 kg so it's actually 150 bt/kg.

Do they have a full size Tesco Lotus where you are? Surprisingly enough that's where I found my rolling pin.

fantastic information...another hurrah for TV and its members

re: rolling pins, I'll look in the big tescos in changwat suphan next time we go...last time I was in macro and there weren't any...

[kenallday]

I half wish I had not read this thread - lots of great info, but I am starving now! I am in Beijing at the moment and the bread is crap!!!!

[jaideeguy]

re: Breadmakers in LOS......save your money.  The only two models that I found available here were the Severin and the Hitachi.  I chose the hitachi because my neighbor had problems with her Severin and their service center didn't/couldn't fix it and my Hitachi worked good for 5 months and has been back and fourth to BKK and still not fixed.  
Had I known about these easy recipes before, I would have saved 6,000thb as they make far superior bread with some crunch and chewiness that my breadmaker didn't do even when it worked properly.

re: cornmeal in LOS....they often call corn starch 'corn meal/corn flour'.....don't be fooled.

[fremmel]

Yeah, I've asked in vain for corn meal in the standard Thai stores and they always point me to the corn flour/starch. With all the corn they grow in Thailand I don't know why they can't make at least a little corn meal. The corn meal from BBI is, in fact, corn meal. I think it's imported. It's suitable for cornbread, although I've still got a little Jiffy mix left so I haven't tried it for that yet.

[tutsiwarrior]

unless ye know what it's gonna be used for it's easy to confuse corn meal/starch/flour...corn meal doesn't figure heavily in the local cuisine and a thai would be easily confused...I would be willin' to give them the benefit of the doubt if it resulted in gettin' my hands on the real thing and havin' nice corn bread a couple of times per week...

I remember that Jiffy mix; just add water, salt an' shortening et voila...a small box useta cost 50 cents...the things that ye miss from home (in a previous life tutsi leaves his trailer house at 3 in the morning to get into his battered pickup to go down to the shop to get the crummy up to the show on Foley Ridge thinkin' 'gonna have me sum nice chili an' corn bread when I get home tonight...' )

[tutsiwarrior]

in Nicaragua when walking to work I'd pass the post/telecommunications office in Managua and a couple of old ladies would be sittin' out front sellin' gaseosas (sodas) and...cornbread. Breakfast would then become an orange soda and a piece of cornbread...really hit the spot...

cornbread, ubiquitous cornbread...