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[dude007]

gotlost, on 2009-11-02 14:34:24, said:

THOSE ARE WHAT??

Sponsored by a famous silicone factory...  Phew!!!     

[brahmburgers]

Here's another true story:

right out of high school, I bumped in to a friend who took me downtown to see a movie about gays.  He was one of the most awkward kids I'd ever known, and was always being bullied.  He'd always been as testosteroned out as any other guys, talking lewdly about seducing girls, the regular stuff of boys growing up.  

However, he was at a stage in his life where he was actively trying to become gay.  I know there are differences, mostly semantic, between being 'gay' and being a transvestite or transgender, but there's a point to this story.   This guy was trying to be gay because the gay crowd was the most fun crowd for him to join at that time.  Maybe he became cross-dresser, transgender later in life, I don't know, I wasn't in touch with him after that time we went to the movies.  There were other indications of him wanting to join the gay crowd, but I won't get in to it in this post.

Humans have an incredible ability to adapt.  Imagine there was a motorcycle group with only tough guys as members. It was a popular group, and the prettiest girls were groupies for it.  A frail boy might do all he could to act tough, in order to join the group.  Furthermore, once he joined, he would perfect the 'tough guy act' to burnish his position in the group.  Actors do it for money, yet we're all actors to some degree.  

I'm not saying all typecast people are actors, but I am saying it's not difficult for some players to assume roles in order to try and fit with a crowd they're drawn to.

It even applies to the Saxena thing.  When Saxena was in his heyday, he was beaming and acting the part of the savvy investor who knew all sorts of crafty shortcuts to milking big money from BBC bank.   Now that he's holed up, he acts like a physical/mental invalid who can't even get around in a wheelchair - he now needs to be carried in prone position, sporting a permanent scowl on his face.

[learn4life]

marsteele, on 2009-11-03 13:14:12, said:

That is what I mean by a normal person.  Maybe one day someone will invent a cure for them after all it is just an illness.

I'm afraid they will never invent a cure for 'normal people'... but that doesn't mean we can't start a support group for those who believe that men should be men, women should be women, and three-leged dogs should be three-legged dogs. Let's make it a CLUB, in fact - no women allowed! Just us manly men doing manly things in our very own special manly space. However, we might allow some feminine elements to maintain contrast and reinforce gender roles, such as music by Judy Garland (a proper girlie-girl) or Edith Piaf (to show we're international). The club could have a fitness centre for building our manly muscles and a sauna for manly relaxation. Of course there would be a pub for social intercourse, where we would scoff at all those nancy-boys hanging out with the wives and girlfriends, while we slap one another on the backside in a jocular way like traditional rugged chaps (ooh, and speaking of chaps, I think leather chaps should be the dress code, don't you? It would really facilitate the backside slapping.). And if those three-legged dogs should fall over, it won't be for want of a leg, but because they are laughing so hard. Now that's a MANLY solution for a NORMAL PERSON! RAWWRR!!! So how about it?

Edited by learn4life, 2009-11-04 10:54:01.

[Rumfoord]

neverdie, on 2009-11-03 10:05:03, said:

TAWP, on 2009-11-02 21:38:20, said:

neverdie, on 2009-11-02 15:04:32, said:

These girls get the best of both worlds....all the stuff that goes along with being a beauty queen and they can still stand up and take a slash.....awesome!

They are most likely all post-ops, so no they don't stand up to pee and for the untrained eye they look as complete women, even naked...

TAWP,  I respect you level of Thailand experience and of course if you've had the chance to view some of these beauties naked, well errr, up to you.  However, your assumption that most of these Ladyboys are post-ops, is mostly incorrect.  Sure, some of them are post-op, but the majority or far more than half of them are pre-op.  How do I know, as I have previously stated, I have a couple of Katoeys in the extended family & I have been fortunate enough to meet some of their friends that were on the beauty pagent run, I live in the captial of the Katoey and many locals here have been finalist in that competition, amoungst the many competition for katoey that go on around thailand.  I cant speak for this year, but the previous two years, the majority of those ladyboy were pre-op LB.  

hi, kudos to your level of tolerance, understanding and acceptance of that gender issue.
but i would like to ad that a term like pre-op is incorrect or not the best choice of words to descibe it. the prefix pre- indicates a not ready yet, not done yet and sets the full surgically modfied body as the norm.
but there are lot of gender bender, 'katoeys or ladyboys, (or whatever term is used) that don't have that OP, and it is not a question of time. or not done yet, but they will never do it.  they don't want to become a full woman, but something in between those traditional gender roles. the third gender, in the first line not- men how far they go down the road to become a woman is another issue.
maybe post-op vs. non-op would be the better choice of words. or full-op vs. non-op.

[Rumfoord]

brahmburgers, on 2009-11-03 08:20:53, said:

As for contests.   What if they had a contest for who was the most attractive poodle  look-alike?  If the prize money and glamor were enticing enough, hundreds, maybe thousands of Thais would get the surgery, hair transplants, (and hormones?) for the make-over.

guess what is the price you have won with your line above?

[Geekfreaklover]

As Ray would say..

Well I'm not the world's most physical guy
But when she squeezed me tight she nearly broke my spine
Oh my Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola
Well I'm not dumb but I can't understand
Why she walked like a woman and talked like a man
Oh my Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola lo-lo-lo-lo Lola

[TAWP]

Rumfoord>> You are correct that there might be those that never wish to do any operations to fully alter their gender. I however don't know anyone that don't wish to have or wished they could had. So I cannot give any number regarding ratio...do you know?

[animatic]

Getting tits is an OP, same with losing the Adams Apple,
and all other invasive procedures.

Pre-Op TS vs Post-Op TS is solely used for the penis to vagina operation.
Most do not go this final step, but some feel no other choice and do it.

[chiangdan]

animatic, on 2009-11-03 16:14:06, said:

chiangdan, on 2009-11-03 14:52:28, said:

mca, on 2009-11-02 18:54:03, said:

One of the biggest scratch head conundrums for me is a gay Thai guy I know whose "wife" is a post-op tranny. I still can't figure out if that makes him heterosexual.

They are still both homosexual. If you put porche badges on your toyota that does not make it a porche it is still a toyota.

On the other hand you can take a Porche drive train, suspension, gauges, and seats
put them in a Volkswagon Bug, and sure as hel_l that car will drive, handle and sound,
like a bleeding Porche. Most parts are drop in too.

So it's a question of building the car you really wanted to begin with.
And that is the case, regardless of the scared, or bigoted, or ABSOLUTELY sure about these people.
They go dealt a circumstance, and some few absolutely can't go on with the staus quo of their genital makeup.

The idea that ALL katoeys are making decisions to become women and it is a choice they can make or not.
Some say they are just homosexuals, may others, scientists included, say they are women with miss assigned bodies.
Why they have had a different prenatal or post natal development cycle is in diSput, but scans and chemical testing
DO indicate that;
they are not the same as either born MEN, nor born WOMEN, but are closer to WOMEN in how their minds function,
and there is nothing the straightest bunch of 'normal people' can do to make this NOT SO.

If we all were alike 100% we would be one person 3 billion times and nothing would ever get done...
Viva la diversity of life, and it's oddities included. From hence comes my tolerance of most all people...
except bigots and intolerant types....
Golden rule, live and let live, cast not the first stone, while living in glass houses etc.

I get the impression that you think I am anti gay, lesbian or Ladyboy.  `Please nothing could be further from the truth, I am not.   From your defensive stance I take it that you are a ladyboy and I say good on you.  If you read my previous post on this I said "everyone unto thier own.

The best man at my wedding was a raving homosexual and his nickname is homer whch he chose himself and we are the best of mates.  So if I have homo / lesbian friends and this makes me a bigot then so be it to the uneducated dickwits....


big·otplay_w2("B0242400") (bgt) n. One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

I guess your feelings differ from mine so that means you fit the bill of a bigot.....

Edited by chiangdan, 2009-11-04 21:39:12.

[chiangdan]

learn4life, on 2009-11-04 10:50:46, said:

marsteele, on 2009-11-03 13:14:12, said:

That is what I mean by a normal person. Maybe one day someone will invent a cure for them after all it is just an illness.

I'm afraid they will never invent a cure for 'normal people'... but that doesn't mean we can't start a support group for those who believe that men should be men, women should be women, and three-leged dogs should be three-legged dogs. Let's make it a CLUB, in fact - no women allowed! Just us manly men doing manly things in our very own special manly space. However, we might allow some feminine elements to maintain contrast and reinforce gender roles, such as music by Judy Garland (a proper girlie-girl) or Edith Piaf (to show we're international). The club could have a fitness centre for building our manly muscles and a sauna for manly relaxation. Of course there would be a pub for social intercourse, where we would scoff at all those nancy-boys hanging out with the wives and girlfriends, while we slap one another on the backside in a jocular way like traditional rugged chaps (ooh, and speaking of chaps, I think leather chaps should be the dress code, don't you? It would really facilitate the backside slapping.). And if those three-legged dogs should fall over, it won't be for want of a leg, but because they are laughing so hard. Now that's a MANLY solution for a NORMAL PERSON! RAWWRR!!! So how about it?

Sorry that would not be politically correct to not allow a woman to be part of a mans club.  Then again it would not be politcaly correct if the woman was a muslim to mix in a mans club and then if one man or woman in the club was a Jew.  Sorry can never have a man's club.

[chiangdan]

fridgemagnet, on 2009-11-03 21:06:16, said:

I always wanted to get close to beautiful girls, BUT I never wanted to be fu@ked by a man because of it.
And mental health problem - well your thinking seems more of a mental health issue to me.

Well if you choose a lady boy that is excatly what you are going to get.

[brahmburgers]

Looks like this topic has gone flaccid.

The pole disappeared, so the flag drooped and fell to the ground.

Someone lost his marbles, then found them again, rolling around the bathroom drain.

Don't let your karma run over your dogma while he's eating a hot dog.

He was going to be a grease monkey, until he got tired of reaming cylinders for a living.

[Rumfoord]

TAWP, on 2009-11-04 19:14:40, said:

Rumfoord>> You are correct that there might be those that never wish to do any operations to fully alter their gender. I however don't know anyone that don't wish to have or wished they could had. So I cannot give any number regarding ratio...do you know?

it isn't so easy explainable with some statistics.  
i have an approach that is based on the theories that came from the field of gender studies and sees gender as social construct. in short, my point is that it isn't about to become a woman. and that the post-op thingy isn't the norm or a 'standard'. that is just another very narrow social construtions, categories that not explain the inbetweens and the whole thing.
it would take to much time to explain it in full length, particularly i don't know your background, or your approach on this.
changes are high that we talk about the same subject in a different "language" (and both can be reasonable) using the same term, but having a different definition for it (and both can be reasonable).
awhile ago there was in the general forum a discussion about the third gender. you can read it here http://www.thaivisa....ex-t287142.html
everybody was talking and arguing with a different approach and misunderstood each other. if you want to know what is my opinion about it,  you can read it there.

beforehand i would had to spend a lot time to explain my definitions, like for example what means post-OP or non_OP. i didn't exclude any operation at all. but meant only that surgical modification that transformed the penis into something that reassembled what looks more like a vagina.  but without takeing time for such a detailed definition what i meant with non-op, other will exploit it and run straw man atacks, telling me that there are of course OP's, like breast augmentation and what ever.
to have a successful communication we would have to make clear what means  'gender', 'sex', 'third gender' transgender', 'Kathoey', 'ladyboy' and so on at all or how is our definition of them when we use these terms in our argumentation.

but here an these forum, after thoses pre textes are set, explained and defined, long entries typed and published in an entry, the OFF_TOPIC police would show up and delete f*cking everything because it is to long to read and worst of all i committed the crime to mention linguistics.  so in don't start a long discussion here. waste of time.  secondly, the 'third gender' it isn't a topic where i have big personal interests in, but it is good to demonstrate on example the common nature of logical fallacies,  errors of reasoning, misconceptions of the" right" and" true", 'false' definitions, prejudice, ignorance towards different cultural concepts and contexts.

but going back to your question about a ratio
disclaimer: what follows is not a scientific method, but maybe a insight in the issue that perception or the conception what a certain term actually mean vary a lot.
so concerning a ratio, do a google image search, family safe search off, and look up for the term ladyboy .  you will see naked people, don't be offended. look at them like a medic would look at his patient or an anthropologist at the artefacts of a culture he studies.
i know that will not answer your question, nor is the ratio of non-op that will show up in the search results my direct answer. that is just a coincidence.  it is also not exemplary for the transgender complex.

[animatic]

chiangdan, on 2009-11-04 21:10:33, said:

animatic, on 2009-11-03 16:14:06, said:

chiangdan, on 2009-11-03 14:52:28, said:

mca, on 2009-11-02 18:54:03, said:

One of the biggest scratch head conundrums for me is a gay Thai guy I know whose "wife" is a post-op tranny. I still can't figure out if that makes him heterosexual.

They are still both homosexual. If you put porche badges on your toyota that does not make it a porche it is still a toyota.

On the other hand you can take a Porche drive train, suspension, gauges, and seats
put them in a Volkswagon Bug, and sure as hel_l that car will drive, handle and sound,
like a bleeding Porche. Most parts are drop in too.

So it's a question of building the car you really wanted to begin with.
And that is the case, regardless of the scared, or bigoted, or ABSOLUTELY sure, about these people.
They got dealt a circumstance, and some few absolutely can't go on with the status quo of their genital makeup.

The idea that ALL katoeys are making decisions to become women and it is a choice they can make or not.
Some say they are just homosexuals, may others, scientists included, say they are women with miss assigned bodies.
Why they have had a different prenatal or post natal development cycle is in diSput, but scans and chemical testing
DO indicate that;
they are not the same as either born MEN, nor born WOMEN, but are closer to WOMEN in how their minds function,
and there is nothing the straightest bunch of 'normal people' can do to make this NOT SO.

If we all were alike 100% we would be one person 3 billion times and nothing would ever get done...
Viva la diversity of life, and it's oddities included. From hence comes my tolerance of most all people...
except bigots and intolerant types....
Golden rule, live and let live, cast not the first stone, while living in glass houses etc.

I get the impression that you think I am anti gay, lesbian or Ladyboy.  `Please nothing could be further from the truth, I am not.   From your defensive stance I take it that you are a ladyboy and I say good on you.  If you read my previous post on this I said "everyone unto thier own.

The best man at my wedding was a raving homosexual and his nickname is homer whch he chose himself and we are the best of mates.  So if I have homo / lesbian friends and this makes me a bigot then so be it to the uneducated dickwits....


big·otplay_w2("B0242400") (bgt) n. One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

I guess your feelings differ from mine so that means you fit the bill of a bigot.....

No actually I am not a katoey, nor have any inclination to be one.
I have 2 friends that are, but no inclination to date either.
But that doesn't mean they aren't friends.

I also studied Anthropology and Psyco-Biology,
so I have some grounding in the medical/brain functions,
of the human organism and this particular sub-set of humanity.

And I come to disliking intolerance, by having a university level
philosopher in the family, so I see many sides to many issues.
And then form MY opinion.

I have seen the damage that that bigotry even casual can have on the targets, in many forms,
and hence see that as a greater evil on this planet than what most bigots complain loudly about.

I disliked some of what you said, simple as likely under-informed,
some others were not even giving pretense for civility.

I never indicated ANYONE specifically was a bigot, did I?
If you took umbrage specifically... I wonder why?

If I was a katoey I would be one butt ugly one for sure,
They would have t use me as comic relief in a cabaret show...

[brahmburgers]

Rumfoord, on 2009-11-04 22:32:05, said:

TAWP, on 2009-11-04 19:14:40, said:

Rumfoord>> You are correct that there might be those that never wish to do any operations to fully alter their gender. I however don't know anyone that don't wish to have or wished they could had. So I cannot give any number regarding ratio...do you know?

it isn't so easy explainable with some statistics.  
i have an approach that is based on the theories that came from the field of gender studies and sees gender as social construct. in short, my point is that it isn't about to become a woman. and that the post-op thingy isn't the norm or a 'standard'. that is just another very narrow social construtions, categories that not explain the inbetweens and the whole thing.
it would take to much time to explain it in full length, particularly i don't know your background, or your approach on this.
changes are high that we talk about the same subject in a different "language" (and both can be reasonable) using the same term, but having a different definition for it (and both can be reasonable).
awhile ago there was in the general forum a discussion about the third gender. you can read it here http://www.thaivisa....ex-t287142.html
everybody was talking and arguing with a different approach and misunderstood each other. if you want to know what is my opinion about it,  you can read it there.

beforehand i would had to spend a lot time to explain my definitions, like for example what means post-OP or non_OP. i didn't exclude any operation at all. but meant only that surgical modification that transformed the penis into something that reassembled what looks more like a vagina.  but without takeing time for such a detailed definition what i meant with non-op, other will exploit it and run straw man atacks, telling me that there are of course OP's, like breast augmentation and what ever.
to have a successful communication we would have to make clear what means  'gender', 'sex', 'third gender' transgender', 'Kathoey', 'ladyboy' and so on at all or how is our definition of them when we use these terms in our argumentation.

but here an these forum, after thoses pre textes are set, explained and defined, long entries typed and published in an entry, the OFF_TOPIC police would show up and delete f*cking everything because it is to long to read and worst of all i committed the crime to mention linguistics.  so in don't start a long discussion here. waste of time.  secondly, the 'third gender' it isn't a topic where i have big personal interests in, but it is good to demonstrate on example the common nature of logical fallacies,  errors of reasoning, misconceptions of the" right" and" true", 'false' definitions, prejudice, ignorance towards different cultural concepts and contexts.

but going back to your question about a ratio
disclaimer: what follows is not a scientific method, but maybe a insight in the issue that perception or the conception what a certain term actually mean vary a lot.
so concerning a ratio, do a google image search, family safe search off, and look up for the term ladyboy .  you will see naked people, don't be offended. look at them like a medic would look at his patient or an anthropologist at the artefacts of a culture he studies.
i know that will not answer your question, nor is the ratio of non-op that will show up in the search results my direct answer. that is just a coincidence.  it is also not exemplary for the transgender complex.

I other words, you don't really know, so you obfuscate the issue with a torrent of words.  Just one sentence: "to have a successful communication we would have to make clear what means 'gender', 'sex', 'third gender' transgender', 'Kathoey', 'ladyboy' and so on at all or how is our definition of them when we use these terms in our argumentation."

....sounds like filibustering, but why, and who would you want to filibuster in this thread?  

If you've got something to say, say it.

[oops]

neverdie, on 2009-11-02 17:05:54, said:

Padrino, on 2009-11-02 16:53:11, said:

"what does it matter what they are, they are all filthy slags!"

Quote from Dave in Yorkshire last week at a bar in Sukhumvit

Was he talking about thai visa members?

Finally someone that actually makes me laugh.  I have been reading through the post and your right on the money for the most part.  


  

[oops]

TAWP, on 2009-11-02 21:38:20, said:

neverdie, on 2009-11-02 15:04:32, said:

These girls get the best of both worlds....all the stuff that goes along with being a beauty queen and they can still stand up and take a slash.....awesome!

They are most likely all post-ops, so no they don't stand up to pee and for the untrained eye they look as complete women, even naked...

   I was drunk, it was dark,,,she was cute so I  took er ome she was very petite very girl like  couldn't figure out why she didn't talk with the exception of the occasional yes or no.  When I got her home she refused to let me undress her but wanted to shake hands with willie.   I started to realize that I might of been duped, so I stuck my hand in the shirt....Wow I was glad I didn't stick it in her pants...I would of been shakiing hands with his willie.

 I do have to say all in all I don't think I have ever had any real problems with them I always have a good time when I am talking with these guys.  


I guess it is because I am a believer in believers.  I love people that believe in themselves and what they want so much that they are willing to put themselves out there.    I can tell you 12 years ago I was very uptight about it only to realize the problem was me not them.  So I think if they want to do it more power to them.  This is what I truly love about thailand....... and most likely why most of you are here as well.

[brahmburgers]

oops, on 2009-11-05 22:45:31, said:

I can tell you 12 years ago I was very uptight about it only to realize the problem was me not them.  So I think if they want to do it more power to them.

What were uptight about, in regard to 'them', 12 years ago?
"....if they want to do it" Do what, surgically and hormonally change their bodies?
My issue isn't so much with what people do surgically to change their appearance.  My issue, if I have one, is the harassment that ensues from some of them, particularly in touristy areas of Thailand.   Thankfully, for me, I don't reside in places like Pattaya or Phuket, so I might only be harassed by extra-sassy katoy if/when I were to visit those type of places (which I rarely do).   However, I hear stories of serious harm and spoiled vacations (or worse) which ensue from Katoy getting seriously aggressive with tourists.
Ok, not so common, but happens nevertheless.

One Dutch guy purportedly jumped out a 2nd story hotel window when he realized (too late) he'd taken a katoy to his room, and the katoy wouldn't leave nor allow the farang leave without paying money.  I know stories like that elicit howls of laughter, but it's more than fun and games to go falling out a 2nd story window.

Another story, was two Arabs who also realized too late, that they'd brought katoy to their hotel room. When told to leave (without any payment) the katoy immediately got on their phones and called all their sissy friends.  The Arabs got beat up on the sidewalk and wound up curtailing their vacation, leaving the next day in bandages.

Of course, in all such cases the police are completely worthless, partly because the farang don't want to go through the many weeks and embarassment and hassles of pursuing a legal case - which they probably wouldn't win anyway.

Apologists for katoy can say 'well there are straight people who commit crimes also.'  Yes, but there's a disproportionate larger % of katoy who do such crimes as mentioned above.  Plus, in every such case (of farang getting duped), the katoy for hire are lying as part of their scam.  Yes, it's a ruse because they don't have the basic honesty to tell the potential customer what goods are on offer.

And there's always a factor of katoy getting offended which often leads to immediate anger and revenge, and sometimes grave physical harm.

Edited by brahmburgers, 2009-11-06 18:51:18.

[hughben]

brahmburgers, on 2009-11-06 19:35:10, said:

Apologists for katoy can say 'well there are straight people who commit crimes also.' Yes, but there's a disproportionate larger % of katoy who do such crimes as mentioned above.  Plus, in every such case (of farang getting duped), the katoy for hire are lying as part of their scam.  Yes, it's a ruse because they don't have the basic honesty to tell the potential customer what goods are on offer.

And there's always a factor of katoy getting offended which often leads to immediate anger and revenge, and sometimes grave physical harm.

Any facts to back this up, or are you getting these facts from a one time excursion down Beach Road in Pattaya?
Are villages across Thailand littered with the Katoey mafia?

Regarding the 'dupe' in the p4p world (where the minority of Katoeys are found). In my experience if you talk to them with some respect, they will tell you they are not 'women'.
I can usually tell, but if I am unsure, I have asked if they were ladyboys (after a few minutes of chit chat) they had all said they were. A comment, like, "Wow, you look like a lady", and then giving an excuse like I am meeting my wife/gf now, so I am busy will be suffice.
Going down Beach Road pissed out of your head on booze with a wad in your shorts, however isn't recommended.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Rumfoord, on 2009-11-04 22:32:05, said:

but going back to your question about a ratio
disclaimer: what follows is not a scientific method, but maybe a insight in the issue that perception or the conception what a certain term actually mean vary a lot.
so concerning a ratio, do a google image search, family safe search off, and look up for the term ladyboy .  you will see naked people, don't be offended. look at them like a medic would look at his patient or an anthropologist at the artefacts of a culture he studies.
i know that will not answer your question, nor is the ratio of non-op that will show up in the search results my direct answer. that is just a coincidence.  it is also not exemplary for the transgender complex.

Let me first say that I really liked your post; excellent comments. I also agree that it's very, very difficult to have a mature discussion in this forum because inevitably some people will resort to shouting BS as a tactic to get the topic closed and it even works pretty much all of the time; topic gets closed, but those people aren't asked to take a vacation.

However.

I think doing that Google search is absolutely the wrong way to go about establishing ratio.  What you are looking at is a 'market ratio of a segment in the porn industry', not a real life social ratio.   Transwomen who go for the full operation are MUCH less likely to be want to be viewed or used as sex toys.  What you see when doing that Google image search is a reflection of a particularly common fetish, namely 'chicks with dicks'.    Plus, objectively, once going for the full operation honestly there's not much out of the ordinary to see, it doesn't even make sense to have a website on that other than perhaps in the very small niche of potential transgender people who might want to discuss issues relating to this topic.

hughben, on 2009-11-08 02:15:30, said:

Regarding the 'dupe' in the p4p world (where the minority of Katoeys are found). In my experience if you talk to them with some respect, they will tell you they are not 'women'.

YES, of course.  I see that all the time with relative newbies or the sexually less secure; they seem to assume that because things aren't the way they first thought they'd be after stepping off the plane in Thailand, they were therefore actively being duped.  They seem to think that 'duping straight guys' is their active agenda.      I won't say it never happens, but really it honestly is not in the interest of a ladyboy to dupe a guy and then have a scene in the room with a likely outcome being that she doesn't get paid, or worse.  It makes far more sense to be upfront about it; it's not like there's any kind of shortage of guys interested in ladyboys.

Quote

I can usually tell, but if I am unsure, I have asked if they were ladyboys (after a few minutes of chit chat) they had all said they were. A comment, like, "Wow, you look like a lady", and then giving an excuse like I am meeting my wife/gf now, so I am busy will be suffice.

Huh.. I always just ask 'So, how long have you been female?' and I ask that to all the women as well, especially for a joke when they're a bit taller, etc.     I don't get the shyness about this topic among some relative newbies to Thailand..  Just ask!  Some people who think they're experienced but really aren't like to then give 'advice' or do forum posts on 'how to spot a ladyboy', which newer newbies really admire as good advice..  As if people won't readily tell you when you just ASK the person.  It's such an opportunity missed for some fun banter, both asking obvious women if they're ladyboys (this establishes yourself as a potential newbie greenhorn which can be fun to play out) as well as telling ladyboys who ask "Do you like ladyboys" that you don't know what a ladyboy is, or some side-track BS about being married (which totally doesn't answe the question), or get all mock homophobic on them while giving different signals "Oh my, if I EEVVVER ended up with a ladyboy  Omygosh I think I'd just freeeak..!"   The possibilities for joking around are endless.

Edited by WinnieTheKhwai, 2009-11-08 08:57:41.

[TAWP]

WinnieTheKhwai is correct. The search-term if used in google image-search will lead to sites with katoys that are pre-op for the sole reason that that is what the term becomes in that area. A post-op will be, for all intent and purposes for a surfer, a woman. And hence aren't being labeled 'ladyboy' on special sites...

Anyway, again, from the ones I know (of, including one in the forum here that we meet during football practise), both inside and outside the trade now or in the past - including models in magazine - all basically want or have done the full procedure. They all consider themselves as women.

There might be a...4th gender, those that only want to do halfway, I don't know...

[neverdie]

brahmburgers, on 2009-11-06 18:35:10, said:

Apologists for katoy can say 'well there are straight people who commit crimes also.'

Your brain works in a strange way, perhaps theres not much room inside something that small and its being starved of oxygen.

Of course, in the quote above, you must be referring to me.  You have selectively taken certain words I have said and refined them into one sentence, ignoring the information around them and therefore distorting what was said.

My arguement to the thread was simply this, "There are hundreds of thousands of Kathoey in Thailand and a very very small portion can be located in the tourist areas doing all the wrong things, if you like, preying on the poor foolish tourists who are just out trying to expliot people less fortunate that them (ohh I know that opens up a whole new can of words).  Have you ever stopped, taken time to look around at all the other assssholz in this area, maybe not, but as a trained professional at spotting assssholz I can tell you there are also many men and women loitering around these areas just waiting for the right opportunity.  To bag up all ladyboys into the one cateogry is so completely wrong and no different to saying that all black people are this and all caucasians are that.  As usual, its the minority that spoil it for the majority.  There are many wonderful transexual people in Thailand, they work in just about every walk life and go about their daily business in the most normal way they are capable of.  It must be very difficult to suffer from some of the issues that these transgender folk do suffer from and it must be even more difficult when there are so many losers, so many perfect people that are quick to jump to their feet and utter endless words of bull$hit about something they know nothing about."

brahmburgers, try to engage your brain before you post, even if you just do so just occassionally.