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[thaihome]

maccaroni man, on 2009-11-04 15:41:04, said:

thaihome, on 2009-11-04 11:44:05, said:

maccaroni man, on 2009-11-03 20:57:57, said:

yes in the past benefits such as childrens tuition, car, rent etc... the typical benefits that come with over seas assignments were not taxed but the new admin is now considering these benefits income hence people who would normaly want to work in places with high running cost such as singapore want no longer want to and the expats who are already working their are being hit with a whole new tax hike. This is just another example of how the obama admin has it's claws out for the working people who do what they can to live an above average life style.

Completly false.  All the allowances you speak of have always been taxable (at least in the 15 years I have worked overseas), both in the US and in the country where you are assigned and paying tax.
TH

'A last-minute amendment attached to the bill has curtailed — and for some expatriates, effectively eliminated — Section 911 benefits, which allow US workers abroad to protect a portion of their overseas compensation from being hit by a second layer of taxation by the Internal Revenue Service. (Overseas Americans must pay all applicable taxes to the government of the country where they live and work, just as foreigners who live and work in the US pay tax to the IRS). The amendment retroactively increases the total allowable foreign-earned-income exclusions from $80,000 to 82,400. But this limit now includes housing benefits (which were previously separate from income exclusions) , and also requires expatriates to stack their residual income on top of the excluded amount before determining the rate at which they ought to pay taxes. Both these changes will lead to significant tax increases for many overseas Americans.'

Ah, so now you are getting accurate.  You said "childrens tuition, car, rent etc..."" did not use to be taxable income and now it is.  That was not true. If you had said they put caps on amount of housing allowance you could exclude, then you would have been accurate.  Instead you put on a bit of hyperbole to try and reinforce a ridiculous notion that this tax change was done because expats are somehow not patriotic because they live outside the US.

It is worth noting the at the same time they did this, they also removed the cap on using Foreign Tax credits to offset any amount due to Alternate Minimum Tax (AMT). What this means is that for people living in higher tax countries, such as Thailand, you still don’t end up paying any US tax.
TH

[Jingthing]

I really think the US taxation issues belong in the Jobs/economy forum as a totally separate topic.

[bendejo]

Quote

I don't agree with you at all about patriotism.

I'm referring to people who overdo it.

There was a story a few years ago about this guy in the US who was getting conned by the Nigerians in one of those infamous scams, to the point where he became an embezzler to send more $ to Nigeria.  Ok, I've established the intelligence of the guy.
This guy had patriotic slogans and emblems on everything, even the bathrobe he wore around the house, and would appear in court wearing big buttons saying "Support our boys in Iraq" according to the reporter who did the write up.  It didn't help, he still got locked up.

The French writer Celine sympathized with the Nazis during WWII because he felt France didn't stand a chance.  After the war when they came to arrest him he kept exclaiming "vive le France" because, he said, how can they possibly arrest you for treason while you're doing so?  Well, they did, but he still was able to get a multi-book deal.
A great cynic, though I'm glad I never met him.  

I have the feeling that Beck may actually be as dumb as his audience.  Limbaugh may be a turd but he's not stupid.  Hannity knows he's being an idiot but also knows what butters his bread (same as Stern).  They say Van Sustern has a husband -- WTF?

[beechguy]

Jingthing, on 2009-11-04 16:15:05, said:

GarryP, on 2009-11-04 16:10:33, said:

If you don't like it get out, so by analogy those who have left, don't like it and thus are unpatriotic. Missing some logic but the inferrence is there.

Simply put, if you left your home country to live elsewhere, what would your compatriots think of you? Good on you, you unpatriotic bast*rd, I'm jealous, etc.

That is correct. He did not explicitly state this, but the meaning was implied, and I used that obvious implication with the intention to start a discussion about the issue of the patriotism of expats in general. Even if you disagree that is reasonable to imply the meaning that I did from Huckabee, that doesn't mean the general topic isn't a valid one.

I agree, it may be a valid question to ask about attitudes concerning nationalism/patriotism in regards to other expats and their home countries. But, I and apparently several others, do not agree with your interpretation of what Mr. Huckabee stated. So, yes you have your opinion, I just can't agree that it's factual.

[Jingthing]

There is no such thing as fact when making subjective interpretations of a political speech. It is always subjective.

[OriginalPoster]

maccaroni man, on 2009-11-04 16:41:04, said:

thaihome, on 2009-11-04 11:44:05, said:

maccaroni man, on 2009-11-03 20:57:57, said:

yes in the past benefits such as childrens tuition, car, rent etc... the typical benefits that come with over seas assignments were not taxed but the new admin is now considering these benefits income hence people who would normaly want to work in places with high running cost such as singapore want no longer want to and the expats who are already working their are being hit with a whole new tax hike. This is just another example of how the obama admin has it's claws out for the working people who do what they can to live an above average life style.

Completly false.  All the allowances you speak of have always been taxable (at least in the 15 years I have worked overseas), both in the US and in the country where you are assigned and paying tax.
TH

'A last-minute amendment attached to the bill has curtailed — and for some expatriates, effectively eliminated — Section 911 benefits, which allow US workers abroad to protect a portion of their overseas compensation from being hit by a second layer of taxation by the Internal Revenue Service. (Overseas Americans must pay all applicable taxes to the government of the country where they live and work, just as foreigners who live and work in the US pay tax to the IRS). The amendment retroactively increases the total allowable foreign-earned-income exclusions from $80,000 to 82,400. But this limit now includes housing benefits (which were previously separate from income exclusions) , and also requires expatriates to stack their residual income on top of the excluded amount before determining the rate at which they ought to pay taxes. Both these changes will lead to significant tax increases for many overseas Americans.'

That block of text that you quoted without attribution was written in 2006 and is commentary about the Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005.  Hence it has nothing to do with the Obama administration being out to gouge expats.  Expats in the $80K+ annual income range did in fact have their marginal tax rate go way up overnight back then - courtesy of the Bush administration.  The damage wasn't primarily done by increased taxation on benefits, it was by making earning above $80K tabable at the same rate that they would be if the whole amount had been earned in the US, rather than at the rate that would apply if the taxpayers only income was that money over $80K.  For many that represented a sudden increase of taxation of thousands of dollars, and it was ramrodded though with almost no debate.

[ignoramus]

Can't add any thoughtful comment.    Not too sure if this has been about nationalism,  jingoism   or   taxes.    The thing that struck me most forcibly   (shows how shallow I am)   is the flag in the toilet stall.     Laughable.    And pathetic.

[Rumfoord]

aren't you just pissed off that the right winger are the same patriots like the patriot you are? (they just don't get it right and you don't like them.)
but there is actually no difference between you and them, you are same same.

right winger or obama supporter, over-enthusiastic flag waving or not, all of them love their country and are addicted to the same TV show: "The President and his dog".  from time to time they switch the TV channel where the show will be hosted, selected by public vote, and also the leading actor in that show can get exchanged.  meanwhile the two main candidates looking for outsiders nearly the same, hard to tell the difference (think pepsi vs. coke,  or Carringtons (Dynasty) vs. Ewings(Dallas)) their respective supporters bitch and slur each other as 'commie' or 'KKK.', silly. they all are right wingers, even if one group declare themselves as 'liberals'. it is a fallacy to assume that would change a lot or make a big difference.
US-american hubris is a trait that is common for all US-americans. and that is a phenomenon  that you cannot find in this extreme in other Nations.

to get the proof for that and also answer your question make a probe, here on TVforum, the webboard for an international expat community, members from all over the world, from many different countries.
now check, how many of them open a topic about the domestic political issues back in their home country, praising us their Prime Minister  or telling us stories about what they watched last night in the domestic TV channel that runs the propaganda for the opposition, and than bitch about that opposition Channel and claiming to be smarter than FOX news?
you see that from French, Irish, Mexican, Canadian, Brasilian, Spaniards, Italian, Russian, Japanese, Swedes, Poles, Egyptian and so on?

during the bush years, i met many US-Americans who said: we are so sorry, please accept our apologies for double-u bush. i said, no reason the say sorry, we can keep politics out, left nationalism behind us, we met here abroad, we are out to explore the world to learn about other cultures, to learn new languages,  i know Hannah Arendt's praise for the American  constitution and i know there are many US-Americans that are not like Bush.
but now things have changed and i understand their 'i am sorry' better. they pity themselves that they could not brag about the USofA, for obvious reasons. now the idea that the USofA is the leading nation and destined to spread its unique gifts of democracy all over the world is back. the do-betters singing the same song, the same old melody. "California Über Alles 21. century reprise".  there wasn't so much change at all.

"The highest treason in the USA is to say Americans are not loved, no matter where they are, no matter what they are doing there." Kurt Vonnegut in A Man Without a Country. (2005).
and that is exactly your issue here.

[Ulysses G.]

Rumfoord, on 2009-11-04 20:14:31, said:

to get the proof for that and also answer your question make a probe, here on TVforum, the webboard for an international expat community, members from all over the world, from many different countries.
now check, how many of them open a topic about the domestic political issues back in their home country, praising us their Prime Minister or telling us stories about what they watched last night in the domestic TV channel that runs the propaganda for the opposition, and than bitch about that opposition Channel and claiming to be smarter than FOX news?
you see that from French, Irish, Mexican, Canadian, Brasilian, Spaniards, Italian, Russian, Japanese, Swedes, Poles, Egyptian and so on?

No, but many of these members from all over the world might very well start a thread about American politics or Barack Obama even though they would not start one about their own country.
That is because, at the moment, what happens in the the U.S. is important to the whole world just like back when England used to rule the world and the waves.
Some people like America and some rather have China or Russia in charge and someday they may get their wish, but bitching about people's interest in the U.S. just makes one look the fool. There is a reason that they call the American President the leader of the free world - that is pretty much what he is whether you like it, or not.

[Jingthing]

Rumfoord, on 2009-11-04 20:14:31, said:

"The highest treason in the USA is to say Americans are not loved, no matter where they are, no matter what they are doing there." Kurt Vonnegut in A Man Without a Country. (2005).
and that is exactly your issue here.

Actually, I can say with full confidence that is most definitely NOT what this topic is about. At all! Next ...

[mahtin]

Certainly Brit expats in Thailand are discriminated against by the Vaterland.
They freeze our pensions.

[Jingthing]

Here's a twist. Barack Obama's brother (Mark Okoth Obama Ndesandjo) is a US expat in China. I bet you almost nobody knew that.

 PH2009110401516.jpg   23.01K   2 downloads

http://www.washingto...9110401214.html

Quote

Ndesandjo bears a striking resemblance to Barack Obama -- lean, with a similar face. This is what America's 44th president would look like if he shaved his head, wore a bandana, favored black T-shirts and sported an earring in his left ear.

Edited by Jingthing, 2009-11-04 22:24:45.

[BobMarleyWannabe]

smokie36, on 2009-11-02 11:50:12, said:

Tim207, on 2009-11-03 02:36:12, said:

Here is a link to this Jing bashing. If you slow it down you can actually hear him say "JingThing is a commie" "JingThing is a commie".

http://www.foxnews.c...listId=playlist

Thanks for the link.

What is it with US politics and religion? He keeps inferring Obama has no belief. In the UK this would be seen as intrusive really.

I mean slate his sex life or his policies but his religion is no ones business but his.

Do US voters care about this stuff?

Every time I am in Thailand and do a hotel stay I always hope they have CNN instead of FOX being carried by the service provider. Sorry to take this a bit off track but let me rant about the American new media. The news media in America pretty much sucks. Most the big news networks are owned by corporate interest who would never report news that would in anyway jeoperdize their own interest.  NPR is OK but they do not always do  fact checking so some of their stories may not always be true to fact. FOX is the worst, complete bias in reporting and they cross the line of journalism. FOX not only reports the news but they create it as well. FOX  has in the past promoted political events and then had its staff members attend such events not to report the activities but to be speakers or supporters of the event. FOX is a really a political organization. About the best we have in America is the Public broadcasting system but they do not have all the bells and whistles to keep ones interest  I mean how can you compete with FOX news while the newscaster is off on a rant, in the video monitor in the background there are images of half nud_e girls on the beach  posing in provacative poses, now this is kind of journalism that brings ratings, and thats what it is all about.

[Rumfoord]

Jingthing, on 2009-11-04 21:46:59, said:

Rumfoord, on 2009-11-04 20:14:31, said:

"The highest treason in the USA is to say Americans are not loved, no matter where they are, no matter what they are doing there." Kurt Vonnegut in A Man Without a Country. (2005).
and that is exactly your issue here.

Actually, I can say with full confidence that is most definitely NOT what this topic is about. At all! Next ...

erm, isn't that your point and defence line against a 'false accusation'? the question about to love America or not.

according to you this patriot at the FOX channel rant about US-Americans who had left the country,  "demonize people who leave America as the most heinous kind of unpatriotic types. " accuse them not be the wholehearted patriots, not to love their country, be unpatriotic. right, that is your problem?

you get agited and rant against FOX, because such statement is untrue, you totally burst  out of full love for your country. right?
"Leaving doesn't usually mean we are more or less patriotic than our less adventurous brothers who stay home and it doesn't always mean we won't be back someday."
your defense and argument is that you not hate America, like falsely accused by nationalistic dimwits.
somewhat said to you: 'hey jingthong, you left america with a one way ticket, so i must assume you don't love our great nation' you could give a sh*t about, but being an American like in the Vonnegut quote above you go crazy, because he accused you of what you see yourself as the worst offence - not to love US-America.

and now you diss me, because i obviously not love the silly way like you and other us-americans love their country.

[Ulysses G.]

PBC, biased and boring but good. FOX, all the bells and whistles, but bad.
Tell us more oh great wise one. Please inform us about the crimes that McDonald's commits!

[Jingthing]

I am happy this thread gave you the opportunity to get that off your chest, Rumfoord. Any further comment would be superfluous.

Edited by Jingthing, 2009-11-04 23:17:06.

[phetaroi]

wamberal, on 2009-11-04 00:10:49, said:

phetaroi, on 2009-11-04 10:04:09, said:

Compare JFK's "Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."  How different is that, actually, than George Bush's policy in Iraq?  How successful are we going to ultimately be in Iraq, as compared to the Kennedy/LBJ war in Vietnam?  Yet, look how differently Kennedy's message is perceived to be than George Bush's message.

I am not an American, I am an Australian.  I hope that I have the right to post on this thread, particularly on this post, given that Australia wholeheartedly supported American endeavours in both Vietnam and Iraq.

For starters, JFK did not go into Vietnam on the basis of a lie.  (LBJ escalated the war on the basis of a lie, but that is a different story). In retrospect, it might have been better to allow the communists to take over the whole country, as they would have if the US had not intervened.  However, what effect that victory might have had in later conflicts and negotiations is not clear.  I suspect if you ask the average Thai (who is old enough to remember) whether they are happy that the US intervened in Vietnam, the answer would be an unqualified "yes".  At least the Yanks bought time, and put a high price on a communist takeover.

After 9/11, the US had huge reservoirs of goodwill, all around the world.  Whether or not muslims in your own country condemned 9/11, a vast majority of the world's population did, openly and emotionally.

And what did Bush do?  Invaded Iraq on a false pretext, without sufficient troops, and without any clear strategy - other than deposing Saddam, and of course, upending his statue for the world press to record.  Allowed the disbanding of the existing security forces which meant that hundreds of thousands of armed, trained, combatants were thrown onto the streets without any sort of financial support.  Stood by while precious and irreplaceable civilian treasures were openly looted.  Did not show the slightest comprehension of the rifts in Islam, even the basic and important Shia/Shiite rift between Iraq and Iran. And, like a little tin soldier, claimed "Mission Accomplished".  Many hundreds of billions of US dollars later, not to mention hundreds of thousands of civilian and combat lives, we are still there.

As to which conflict will come to the better conclusion, no doubt the people of Vietnam and Iraq will suffer for generations.  Perhaps neither of them will be better off.


I declare it a dishonourable draw, but cannot blame JFK.  If he had lived, perhaps he would have had the sense not to escalate the conflict.

Of course you have a right to post!  Welcome to the discussion...even though we clearly disagree!

I disagree with you about how Kennedy "went into" Vietnam.  The Kennedy administration was deeply involved in playing undercover games that led to the steady increase of U.S. personnel in Vietnam.  The administration appears to have some role in the assassination of Diem, at the very least giving tacit approval because they thought it would shorten the threat.  The Kennedy administration played games all over the world, from Vietnam to the Bay of Pigs...and failed in almost every one.  Kennedy, along with other U.S. presidents of the era continuously played the puppet game, involving minor countries to fight the battles that we were only willing to fight in terms of a Cold War.

When you say, "At least the Yanks bought time, and put a high price on a communist takeover," you're right.  The price was very high for a people who mostly just wanted to escape from U.S. supported French colonialism.  It is estimated that 5.4 million Vietnamese died in the struggle during the time America was attempting to pull the strings.

Yes, many around the world did condemn 9/11.  But that wasn't the point I stated, which was in direct relationship to the original post of this thread  -- expats in a country.  Muslim immigrants to the U.S. were for the most part very silent.

[thatguy]

Telling people that FOX is entertainment , not news, is as futile as telling them that Professional Wrestling is entertainment, not a contest.

Most people already get it, it just confuses or angers those that don't, and gives the wrestlers an opportunity to act offended and say it isn't so.

[phetaroi]

Jingthing, on 2009-11-04 03:24:22, said:

However, I am certainly not the only one who sees demagoguery in Huckabee:

Quote

Governor Huckabee is an ignorant demagogue driven by his view of Christian dogma (don't howl, I am a Christian too) who obviously intends to apply his reading of the Bible to government.

http://www.nowpublic...ly-gone-too-far

Tell me about what you know about Joelle Rose and why her opinion should matter.

[Rumfoord]

Ulysses G., on 2009-11-04 20:31:54, said:

Rumfoord, on 2009-11-04 20:14:31, said:

to get the proof for that and also answer your question make a probe, here on TVforum, the webboard for an international expat community, members from all over the world, from many different countries.
now check, how many of them open a topic about the domestic political issues back in their home country, praising us their Prime Minister or telling us stories about what they watched last night in the domestic TV channel that runs the propaganda for the opposition, and than bitch about that opposition Channel and claiming to be smarter than FOX news?
you see that from French, Irish, Mexican, Canadian, Brasilian, Spaniards, Italian, Russian, Japanese, Swedes, Poles, Egyptian and so on?

No, but many of these members from all over the world might very well start a thread about American politics or Barack Obama even though they would not start one about their own country.
That is because, at the moment, what happens in the the U.S. is important to the whole world just like back when England used to rule the world and the waves.
Some people like America and some rather have China or Russia in charge and someday they may get their wish, but bitching about people's interest in the U.S. just makes one look the fool. There is a reason that they call the American President the leader of the free world - that is pretty much what he is whether you like it, or not.

the Obama thing wasn't the big issue here, but some side show.  

so according to jingthong, he listen to  some commentator on a TV channel, back home in USofAland,  a TV channel of questionable reputation and the commentator is a dummkopf anyway (according to jingthong). so long, nobody would care about what happen on that show,  but  then this TV buffoon dared to judge 'people who leave America as the most heinous kind of unpatriotic types.' (according to jingthing) but still a thing nobody would give a sh*t about.
nobody?, not real, there is one true partriot abroad, in Bahtbusland, he isn't unpatriotic like the dummkopf on the TV channel said.
so that patriotic US.american goes to the Bahtbusland forum, an international community of bahtbuslandriders and ask the others if they have similar seizure disorders of being a patriot.
my guess is not, nobody else, who comes from other country does something like this here, not really.

the other issue is  the idea that the USofA as the leading nation of the free world, that is what US-Americans think of themselves.
others might see it as unwarranted self-importance, us- american hubris - that is pretty much what it is whether you like it, or not.
perpetual bragging and telling everybody that your are the BOSS and your are the MAN, and never question yourself if your really get everything right, this way you don't make much friends in an international circle.
and when members of other nations open here a new thread about the USofA it is probably not to praise the USofA as the leader of the free world, right?

[Huey]

thatguy, on 2009-11-05 00:25:59, said:

Telling people that FOX is entertainment , not news, is as futile as telling them that Professional Wrestling is entertainment, not a contest.

Most people already get it, it just confuses or angers those that don't, and gives the wrestlers an opportunity to act offended and say it isn't so.

Great analogy, simple and accurately put.

[Nio]

I vote jimthing personally calls Huckerbee and gets this clarified in a personal interview.

[Jingthing]

Nio, on 2009-11-05 02:13:36, said:

I vote jimthing personally calls Huckerbee and gets this clarified in a personal interview.

I tried to post on his "free speech" feedback board at his website and they did not allow the comment (he's only interested in people who agree with him).

[ozzieovaseas]

Rumfoord, on 2009-11-04 23:12:56, said:

Jingthing, on 2009-11-04 21:46:59, said:

Rumfoord, on 2009-11-04 20:14:31, said:

"The highest treason in the USA is to say Americans are not loved, no matter where they are, no matter what they are doing there." Kurt Vonnegut in A Man Without a Country. (2005).
and that is exactly your issue here.

Actually, I can say with full confidence that is most definitely NOT what this topic is about. At all! Next ...

erm, isn't that your point and defence line against a 'false accusation'? the question about to love America or not.

according to you this patriot at the FOX channel rant about US-Americans who had left the country, "demonize people who leave America as the most heinous kind of unpatriotic types. " accuse them not be the wholehearted patriots, not to love their country, be unpatriotic. right, that is your problem?

you get agited and rant against FOX, because such statement is untrue, you totally burst out of full love for your country. right?
"Leaving doesn't usually mean we are more or less patriotic than our less adventurous brothers who stay home and it doesn't always mean we won't be back someday."
your defense and argument is that you not hate America, like falsely accused by nationalistic dimwits.
somewhat said to you: 'hey jingthong, you left america with a one way ticket, so i must assume you don't love our great nation' you could give a sh*t about, but being an American like in the Vonnegut quote above you go crazy, because he accused you of what you see yourself as the worst offence - not to love US-America.

and now you diss me, because i obviously not love the silly way like you and other us-americans love their country.

Hey Rumfoord..you wouldnt possibly be of Thai descendance would you??   

I dont ask this because of your English, but just that you got the OP's name wrong..its Jingthing..not jingthong!!!..and definately not tingtong   

[Jingthing]

Rum, I think it is quite normal for citizens of any country to love their country, whether they live there or expatriate. I don't expect non-Americans to love America, but I am glad if they do (but I am not sure why they would). Its like loving your family, you do even if they are deeply flawed, and they usually are!

Edited by Jingthing, 2009-11-05 02:57:16.