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[WinnieTheKhwai]

Quote

Of the current Red leaders, the ones that seem more trustworthy - perhaps Chaturon and Mingkwan, are always overshadowed by the more gangsterish elements.

Even those are in the old clique..  Fine in Phuea Thai, but in an activist movement I would like to see more academics and grass roots people.  

I found a really interesting forum group that's mostly Thai people though it's a predominantly English language place. Really very refreshing to see educated middle class people debate politics but from the Red side of things.  I can't / won't mention the place though because that would be against the rules I signed up for.  There's really a lot of things I'd like to ask or raise there, but will lurk for a bit and get to know people before jumping in.

[otherstuff1957]

^ Initials NM perhaps?  I find it an interesting read, though I suspect that many of the posters there should remember the old saying "be careful what you wish for, it may come true".

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Oh, no, not that one.   Yikes.  No, this seems a lot more like a community.  And many cute Red girls too, which is also refreshing.

 n1297389066_110.jpg   16.94K   4 downloads

Edited by WinnieTheKhwai, 2009-11-08 23:38:17.

[rsy]

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-07 23:45:00, said:

Publicus, on 2009-11-07 23:16:49, said:

Meanwhile Red forumists continue to try to misdirect the thread topic away from Thaksin by attacking the Nation, PAD, the coup, Abhisit, Kasit, other forumists, Sondhi, the Democrat Party, the Election Commission, the judiciary, the powers that be, nosey farang etc etc.

First of all, I believe Dr. Thaksin declined the kind offer:

ww.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/2009110429332/National-news/thaksin-says-no-to-cambodia-report-says.html

Above article headline: Thaksin says no to Cambodia

A big problem with trying to defend Thaksin is his never-ending lies.

Cambodia announces Thaksin visit

PHNOM PENH (AFP) — Fugitive former Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra will visit Phnom Penh this week in his new role as economics adviser, the Cambodian PM said

[khunjamespittman]

jayboy, on 2009-11-05 11:05:05, said:

tominbkk, on 2009-11-05 04:49:50, said:

Would there be enough legal reason to revoke Thaksin's Thai citizenship because of this?  I'm sure they've worked it out so it wouldn't be illegal, but still, that just seems like a really slimy thing to do.  Then again, it is Tahksin, what can we expect from the little Hitler.

There would be no legal justification.What is more, if withdrawn, it would presumably deny Thailand's jurisdiction over Thaksin.

I don't see how anyone comes out well out of this - the ridiculous Thai Foreign Minister who has a record of insulting Cambodians and Hun Sen, the thuggish and corrupt Hun Sen who in a fit of pique undermines the genuine work done in recent years to secure ASEAN unity, the self -centred Thaksin who should have shown his concern by kicking the advisor concept out of court in the first place.

But on one point Hun Sen is right , namely that the campaign against Thaksin is politically motivated.In fact everybody knows this although the charade plays on.(This doesn't mean there isn't substance to some of the charges - all relatively trivial or in some cases baseless - but the reality is that the process is driven by the wish of Thaksin's political enemies to destroy him though not at the risk of damaging themselves which is why the really serious charges aren't being brought).

Who amongst us would turn down a great paying job like this?  There are many complainers but you would all run to the trough if it was available to you.  If you could ever get over your hatred for Thaksin for just a few moments you would at least give him credit for being one of the best, if not the the best economic mind in the Far East.

[khunjamespittman]

jayboy, on 2009-11-05 11:05:05, said:

tominbkk, on 2009-11-05 04:49:50, said:

Would there be enough legal reason to revoke Thaksin's Thai citizenship because of this?  I'm sure they've worked it out so it wouldn't be illegal, but still, that just seems like a really slimy thing to do.  Then again, it is Tahksin, what can we expect from the little Hitler.

There would be no legal justification.What is more, if withdrawn, it would presumably deny Thailand's jurisdiction over Thaksin.

I don't see how anyone comes out well out of this - the ridiculous Thai Foreign Minister who has a record of insulting Cambodians and Hun Sen, the thuggish and corrupt Hun Sen who in a fit of pique undermines the genuine work done in recent years to secure ASEAN unity, the self -centred Thaksin who should have shown his concern by kicking the advisor concept out of court in the first place.

But on one point Hun Sen is right , namely that the campaign against Thaksin is politically motivated.In fact everybody knows this although the charade plays on.(This doesn't mean there isn't substance to some of the charges - all relatively trivial or in some cases baseless - but the reality is that the process is driven by the wish of Thaksin's political enemies to destroy him though not at the risk of damaging themselves which is why the really serious charges aren't being brought).

Who amongst us would turn down a great paying job like this?  There are many complainers but you would all run to the trough if it was available to you.  If you could ever get over your hatred for Thaksin for just a few moments you would at least give him credit for being one of the best, if not the the best economic mind in the Far East.

[Valentine]

khunjamespittman, on 2009-11-09 06:23:08, said:

Who amongst us would turn down a great paying job like this? There are many complainers but you would all run to the trough if it was available to you. If you could ever get over your hatred for Thaksin for just a few moments you would at least give him credit for being one of the best, if not the the best economic mind in the Far East.

It would be interesting to know what you base this on.

[khunjamespittman]

Valentine, on 2009-11-09 06:34:53, said:

khunjamespittman, on 2009-11-09 06:23:08, said:

Who amongst us would turn down a great paying job like this? There are many complainers but you would all run to the trough if it was available to you. If you could ever get over your hatred for Thaksin for just a few moments you would at least give him credit for being one of the best, if not the the best economic mind in the Far East.

It would be interesting to know what you base this on.

You must have forgotten the economy he built in Thailand.  Look at it before he was PM and look at it now.  You also must have forgotten that he was scheduled to become the economic leader for a condsortium of Asian nations before the zealots took him down.  The rest of the world recognized his economic ability.

[Siripon]

khunjamespittman, on 2009-11-09 06:55:18, said:

Valentine, on 2009-11-09 06:34:53, said:

khunjamespittman, on 2009-11-09 06:23:08, said:

Who amongst us would turn down a great paying job like this? There are many complainers but you would all run to the trough if it was available to you. If you could ever get over your hatred for Thaksin for just a few moments you would at least give him credit for being one of the best, if not the the best economic mind in the Far East.

It would be interesting to know what you base this on.

You must have forgotten the economy he built in Thailand.  Look at it before he was PM and look at it now.  You also must have forgotten that he was scheduled to become the economic leader for a condsortium of Asian nations before the zealots took him down.  The rest of the world recognized his economic ability.

The economy didn't change a lot in his tenure, unless you mean the increase in household debt.
Which consortium of Asian nations wanted him to be leader apart from Hun (vested interests) Sen? He upset most of them with his grandoise schemes and threats to leave conferences that mentioned Tak Bai, etc.
The developed world has shunned him- visa revoked in England, Japan and Germany, he's never seen in USA or Europe, left to beg favours from Third World dictators.

[khunjamespittman]

Siripon, on 2009-11-09 07:28:39, said:

khunjamespittman, on 2009-11-09 06:55:18, said:

Valentine, on 2009-11-09 06:34:53, said:

khunjamespittman, on 2009-11-09 06:23:08, said:

Who amongst us would turn down a great paying job like this? There are many complainers but you would all run to the trough if it was available to you. If you could ever get over your hatred for Thaksin for just a few moments you would at least give him credit for being one of the best, if not the the best economic mind in the Far East.

It would be interesting to know what you base this on.

You must have forgotten the economy he built in Thailand.  Look at it before he was PM and look at it now.  You also must have forgotten that he was scheduled to become the economic leader for a condsortium of Asian nations before the zealots took him down.  The rest of the world recognized his economic ability.

The economy didn't change a lot in his tenure, unless you mean the increase in household debt.
Which consortium of Asian nations wanted him to be leader apart from Hun (vested interests) Sen? He upset most of them with his grandoise schemes and threats to leave conferences that mentioned Tak Bai, etc.
The developed world has shunned him- visa revoked in England, Japan and Germany, he's never seen in USA or Europe, left to beg favours from Third World dictators.

As in most discussions concerning Thaksin this has degraded into hatred for Thaksin.  I am certainly not in favor of some of Thaksin's human rights tactics but I am objective enough to give credit where credit is due.  You seem unable to do this.  You also seem not to have any understanding of Thailand's economics.  I just have one final comment and I'll bow out and let you continue your quest for destruction.  The countries you mentioned "did not shun" him.  They are legally constrained by the international treaties of which they are signatories.   So long and enjoy yourself.

[Rideau]

khunjamespittman, on 2009-11-09 08:42:59, said:

As in most discussions concerning Thaksin this has degraded into hatred for Thaksin.  I am certainly not in favor of some of Thaksin's human rights tactics but I am objective enough to give credit where credit is due.  You seem unable to do this.  You also seem not to have any understanding of Thailand's economics.  I just have one final comment and I'll bow out and let you continue your quest for destruction.  The countries you mentioned "did not shun" him.  They are legally constrained by the international treaties of which they are signatories.   So long and enjoy yourself.

Even it has degraded into hatred against Thaksin, the hatred is not baseless. I encourage those who defend Thaksin to say it straightforward that "I love Thaksin", khunjamespittman. Say it.

There is a Wordpress forum called "ThaiCrisis", in which the owner and majority of readers staunchly supportive of Thaksin. You may find it more enjoyable.

Edited by Rideau, 2009-11-09 10:22:48.

[LawnGnome]

Thaksin is finished in Thailand.  He just doesn't realize it yet.

[caf]

caf, on 2009-11-08 07:48:47, said:

Publicus, on 2009-11-07 18:25:15, said:

caf, on 2009-11-07 19:07:19, said:

Publicus, on 2009-11-07 15:07:17, said:

Still waiting to hear Red leaders separate themsleves from Thaksin. Who among the Reds is saying anything negative about this deal between Thaksin and Hun Sen? Or about Thaksin the economic advisor to the Cambodian government? About Thaksin possibly relocating to Cambodia?

Reds don't seem concerned. Red forumists instead are trying to misdirect the focus to Abhisit, pursuing their old saw that Mark is in over his head again. Abhisit is playing this one by the book, pursuing the established diplomatic options and actions.

Meanwhile Thaksin the Cambodian is almost forgotten.

Thaksin the Cambodian!! Your anti-thaksin emotions are clouding your normally thoughtful points

Actually he is Thai and has some powerful Thai friends. You don't want to admit that do you?

It would be helpful if you could advise us of the benefits to Thailand of Thaksin being an adviser (economics) to the government of Cambodia, thereby becoming an official of the government of Cambodia. I share the view of the government of Thailand that it's not a good idea and I thus far support the Thai government's response.

Kindly advise..........what are the benefits to Thailand of Thaksin becoming an official of the government of Cambodia?

One forumist said Thaksin needs an income, which could be understandable but, then again.........

No benefits at all.  His is a tactical move.  But your response did not answer my point. Admit he has powerful friends here. That is what is worrying some of the elite.

The UK Times takes up the point - with an interview report.

[hammered]

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-08 20:35:27, said:

ballpoint, on 2009-11-08 14:51:06, said:

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-08 09:31:53, said:

... but he does know that Abhisit is prone to make mistakes when poked a bit...

Any facts to support this statement?  You admit to knowing the thoughts of Thaksin, how often do you speak to him?

I read his Twitter tweets pretty much daily.   For the record though, I'm not a Thaksin fanboy.. I would love to see more people in the Red camp move beyond the topic of Dr. Thaksin, or at the very least see other people stepping up to the plate who aren't old style regional dinosaur power brokers.

The red side have a lot of reasonable/good ideas and good people. I do though agree that the leadership and links to Thaksin undermine these. However, Thaksin is the big draw and will probbaly continue to be so far some while.

One good thing imho has been the politicization of so many people whether by red, yellow or even some inbetween thing. The leaders on all sides though remain traditional and it is hard to see a way of the polticization of people being moved away from personalities and leaders

[Old Man River]

RegularReader, on 2009-11-08 17:49:41, said:

Old Man River, on 2009-11-08 16:55:37, said:

RegularReader, on 2009-11-08 08:32:55, said:

You are a step ahead of the debate. I agree it will require an organized push to take advantage of this situation, but the conditions are set, to make a move against Thaksin. Whether or not the Dems/BJP can take advantage of it will become apparent in the next few days.
In any case, I stick by my point that Thaksin is wrong if he thinks the loyalty to him is about anything more than money. Isaan people are not stupid - they've had to live this way for a long long time.

I don't think there is any question this is all about money (isn't it always?).

Yes, for the Thai people, I am sure, it's "all about the money".
And for Thaksin right now, it's also "all about the money" - always has been.
Perhaps they don't know it, but, he needs Thai people, more than they need him, right now.
What I am suggesting, that his getting into bed with Cambodia, is viewed by many Thais, as infidelity and this will either make him like the unfaithful lover, wherein he will offer them the earth (quite possible), or be completely spurned (50/50 chance).

Do you really think in the next national election (whenever it is), that Thaksin becoming an economic advisor to Cambodia will be a major campaign issue? I don't see it. Right now it may be a hot issue in Bangkok, but upcountry they will be more concerned with the bettering their own lives than any of this.