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[tig28]

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rixalex, on 2009-11-07 11:50:14, said:

You say the difference is you are not trying to pretend something, suggesting that i am. Can you please tell me what i am pretending. It's not clear.

Well rixalex .... if you believe my description points at you --- then that is up to you.
.... In a couple of prior posts ( replying to you ) I have given but a few obvious examples of "fixed" tribunals etc. ... designed to destroy Thaksin & all associated with him. The pretence becomes reality when the vocal warriors rant endlessly about this without acknowledging that the tribunals are as equally biased today as they were in Thaksins day.

Quote

I see corruption all over the place - in Thaksin, in the military, in the police and in the majority of politicians and a fair number of businessmen and women - and i condemn it all. The only reason i spend more of my time condemning Thaksin than any of the others is that Thaksin's corruption is continually trying to be justified and played down by people like you.

You -- like your fellows--- claim to be able to see all this corruption ---- but nary a single word!! Just a total focus on all things Thaksin. Beyond Thaksin ---- nothing!! This reminds me of when the "war on drugs" was in full swing. The few brave souls who raised voices of justified protest over this must have felt very very lonely indeed.

The belated warriors for justice had not yet been awoken as the "get Thaksin no matter what" theme had not yet been funded. Sondhi (belatedly one of Thaksins greatest critics) ran a media empire for heavens sake --- not one word!! This, rixalex, is pretence!! It is sad.


Sorry rixalex, you are wrong --- I have never never attempted to justify corruption by Thaksin --- or anyone else. I do acknowledge it should have been much more difficult for me to down play the seriousness Thaksins conviction ..... but .... had he have been convicted of conducting a cooking show -- I might have been able to restrain myself!!!

But enough now -- I have been working --- just got back and read the recent posts --- I wish to echo hammereds post #300.

Quote

edited as I couldn't stop laughing.

[Xangsamhua]

coalminer, on 2009-11-07 17:40:26, said:

Coalminer, it's not ASTV your folks are watching, but a channel run by Thai People Voice http://www.thaipeoplevoice.org/, a redshirt group.

[caf]

h90, on 2009-11-07 16:12:36, said:

awd, on 2009-11-07 16:02:25, said:

Clearly, Abhisit should resign in Thailand's greater interest. Of course, the next guy the military appoints could be uglier, so maybe he should stay.

??? Abhisit was elected by the majority in Parliament by a coalition of different parties.
Not different than in England, Germany or most other democracy.

Oh, i didn't realise the military were involved in germany or the uk. i thought coalitions were decided only by the parties themselves.

[caf]

Publicus, on 2009-11-07 15:07:17, said:

Still waiting to hear Red leaders separate themsleves from Thaksin. Who among the Reds is saying anything negative about this deal between Thaksin and Hun Sen? Or about Thaksin the economic advisor to the Cambodian government? About Thaksin possibly relocating to Cambodia?

Reds don't seem concerned. Red forumists instead are trying to misdirect the focus to Abhisit, pursuing their old saw that Mark is in over his head again. Abhisit is playing this one by the book, pursuing the established diplomatic options and actions.

Meanwhile Thaksin the Cambodian is almost forgotten.

Thaksin the Cambodian!! Your anti-thaksin emotions are clouding your normally thoughtful points

Actually he is Thai and has some powerful Thai friends. You don't want to admit that do you?

[rixalex]

tig28, on 2009-11-07 17:49:56, said:

You -- like your fellows--- claim to be able to see all this corruption ---- but nary a single word!! Just a total focus on all things Thaksin. Beyond Thaksin ---- nothing!!

I've already told you why the corrupt activities of other people is not focused on so much. Those other people don't have an army of red zombies going around on their behalf telling the world how wonderful they are and how their crimes were only petty in comparison with other people.

tig28, on 2009-11-07 17:49:56, said:

Sorry rixalex, you are wrong --- I have never never attempted to justify corruption by Thaksin

This Tig is pretence. You attempt to justify Thaksin's corrupt ways in almost every post you make, by telling us all we should be looking the other way at people you deem to be more guilty than him.

[Publicus]

caf, on 2009-11-07 19:07:19, said:

Publicus, on 2009-11-07 15:07:17, said:

Still waiting to hear Red leaders separate themsleves from Thaksin. Who among the Reds is saying anything negative about this deal between Thaksin and Hun Sen? Or about Thaksin the economic advisor to the Cambodian government? About Thaksin possibly relocating to Cambodia?

Reds don't seem concerned. Red forumists instead are trying to misdirect the focus to Abhisit, pursuing their old saw that Mark is in over his head again. Abhisit is playing this one by the book, pursuing the established diplomatic options and actions.

Meanwhile Thaksin the Cambodian is almost forgotten.

Thaksin the Cambodian!! Your anti-thaksin emotions are clouding your normally thoughtful points

Actually he is Thai and has some powerful Thai friends. You don't want to admit that do you?

It would be helpful if you could advise us of the benefits to Thailand of Thaksin being an adviser (economics) to the government of Cambodia, thereby becoming an official of the government of Cambodia. I share the view of the government of Thailand that it's not a good idea and I thus far support the Thai government's response.

Kindly advise..........what are the benefits to Thailand of Thaksin becoming an official of the government of Cambodia?

One forumist said Thaksin needs an income, which could be understandable but, then again.........

[RegularReader]

Hammered and others are correct in saying that Thais of the upper NorthEast areas of Isaan have no love for Cambodia.
In all these comments there's not much discussion that Thaksin might have shot himself in the foot by associating himself with Cambodia (if he'd done this in Laos, the support might be different) and will need to find a get out - as he did over the Songkran fiasco.
I can almost hear the words now:
" My dear poor downtrodden democratic wanting Thai people, I had no alternative. I love Thailand so much and just wanted to be as near as I could to you all. But, as I see that it will upset you, I will not go and help my dear friend HunSen and the poor Cambodian people.....balabalabala.......

[rixalex]

RegularReader, on 2009-11-07 18:39:45, said:

" My dear poor downtrodden democratic wanting Thai people, I had no alternative. I love Thailand so much and just wanted to be as near as I could to you all. But, as I see that it will upset you, I will not go and help my dear friend HunSen and the poor Cambodian people.....balabalabala.......

Those are exactly the words i'm also expecting to be hearing shortly, as it slowly dawns on him what a bad move it was. Give it a few days people...

[awd]

There is a similarity with the current Honduran Coup where the elected government leader camped out in the neighboring country for a while. Coups historically get very little international respect.

[Publicus]

awd, on 2009-11-07 20:37:36, said:

There is a similarity with the current Honduran Coup where the elected government leader camped out in the neighboring country for a while. Coups historically get very little international respect.

OMG we've been over this before and left this bogus claim behind months ago.

The Honduran (now former) president Manuel Zelaya was removed constitutionally by the Supreme Court and his constitutionally designated successor assumed office. Zelaya had defied the Supreme Court's constitutional ruling that no incumbent president could attempt to be re-elected. Because the president is commander in chief of the armed forces, the Supreme Court asked the army to escort Zelaya to a neighboring country.

Zelaya later went to a neighboring country to threaten to re-enter Honduras, which the Organization of American States (OAS) and the United States in particular said was a really bad idea, which caused Zelaya to abandon his antagonizing presence in the adjacent country.

Zelaya has not become an official of another government nor has any such nutty development been suggested, proposed or broached. While it's easy to argue Zelaya and Thaksin deserve each other, it is folly and plainly erroneous to try to draw a parallel between the two nutters, except to say that each in his own way(s) is a nutter.

[hammered]

awd, on 2009-11-07 19:37:36, said:

There is a similarity with the current Honduran Coup where the elected government leader camped out in the neighboring country for a while. Coups historically get very little international respect.

The difference is that th eHonduran governmenmt are recognized by zero countries even less than the breakaway Georgian states while both th eThai coup government and all of the ones including Abhisit's during the tenure of this parliament have been internationally recognized. The leader of the Honduran government has and still is widely welcomed whilst Thaksin has had more difficulty in this way. The questions may be posited of why is this true? Some coups are more readily accepted than others and some leaders are more readily abandoned than others it seems

[Publicus]

hammered, on 2009-11-07 21:38:05, said:

awd, on 2009-11-07 19:37:36, said:

There is a similarity with the current Honduran Coup where the elected government leader camped out in the neighboring country for a while. Coups historically get very little international respect.

The difference is that th eHonduran governmenmt are recognized by zero countries even less than the breakaway Georgian states while both th eThai coup government and all of the ones including Abhisit's during the tenure of this parliament have been internationally recognized. The leader of the Honduran government has and still is widely welcomed whilst Thaksin has had more difficulty in this way. The questions may be posited of why is this true? Some coups are more readily accepted than others and some leaders are more readily abandoned than others it seems

The OAS (to include the United States) believes Zelaya's challenge to the Supreme Court's constitutional ruling could and should have been handled better and differently than it was, and that the Honduran government has set a bad precedent in its approach to dealing with Zelaya's open defiance of the Supreme Court's constitutional ruling against his unconstitutional plan to re-elect himself.

Consequently, Zelaya is welcome among OAS member states. Post coup Thaksin is welcome in one Asean member state, Cambodia, even though it's been reported Thaksin has slipped into a few other Asean states but has had to scamper out once spotted.

Perhaps Thaksin should gather all his gang abroad to set up a Thai Government in Exile. I'd bet one rogue country would recognize it. It would get all of those nasty people out of Thailand too.

Edited by Publicus, 2009-11-07 20:55:55.

[Insight]

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-07 16:49:58, said:

Insight, on 2009-11-07 14:05:54, said:

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-07 13:51:02, said:

I'm not sure it matters much though; in the general political scheme of things the key words are equality and economic opportunity; Thaksin got elected in successive landslide election victories not because of ethnicity (the man's Chinese and from Chiang Mai for crying out loud) but because he empowered a region that until then was regarded as the nation's toilet and a source of cheap labor.

That worked very well for Thaksin, until the powers that be had enough and began to consider him a threat. Then it was quickly ended, and Abhisit put in power.

Not quite.

The military stood in the prevent a looming confrontation between the anti and pro Thaksin groups, following weeks upon weeks of anti-Thaksin protests.

Wow.

Where to start... I guess I'll just summarize by stating that I disagree; this was exactly the line that the likes of The Nation tried to spin in regards to the coup; I didn't think anyone would actually buy it but I guess I was wrong!

Me and my wife were there.

/edit - it would probably help if you highlighted what part you disagree with / don't believe happened. If you need help, pick from any of the below:

1. Thaksin's sale of Shincorp to Temasek and modification of the laws to assist his overall gain.
2. Sondhi's political show being taken off air for disagreeing with this and another Thaksin policies.
3. Thousands of people responding to Sondhi's requests to see the show live at Thammasat Uni.
4. The repeated demonstrations building momentum.
5. The threat of Thaksin's northern mob squad heading to BKK to deal with the newly formed group.
6. The coup itself.

Edited by Insight, 2009-11-07 21:09:46.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Publicus, on 2009-11-07 20:53:24, said:

Perhaps Thaksin should gather all his gang abroad to set up a Thai Government in Exile. I'd bet one rogue country would recognize it. It would get all of those nasty people out of Thailand too.

Well, I agree, and I think that's what he should have done right after the coup. But he was really diplomatic about it and didn't rock the boat too much. It's a bit late for it now.

[tig28]

rixalex, on 2009-11-07 18:17:52, said:

This Tig is pretence. You attempt to justify Thaksin's corrupt ways in almost every post you make, by telling us all we should be looking the other way at people you deem to be more guilty than him.

Hi rixalex
I shall treat the first section of your post #307 with the ignore it deserves. But this tedious little jem is just a little too much.

I most certainly take every opportunity to point out current corruption --- as far too many posters here write trite and ill founded views with the pretence that all corruption is Thaksin only. I am amazed that in your mind you can convert this particular stance of mine into some justification of ....well...... anything???

Weirdly you seem to feel that acknowledging existing current corruption somehow diminishes that of Thaksin ... this type of thought process is new to me .. but perhaps goes some way way towards explaining what you write.

I apologize for the fact that I can look at the corruption of Thaksin and also that of others and feel in no way that one diminishes the other. I am just strange like that.

[dataserver]

Xangsamhua, on 2009-11-07 17:55:29, said:

coalminer, on 2009-11-07 17:40:26, said:

Coalminer, it's not ASTV your folks are watching, but a channel run by Thai People Voice http://www.thaipeoplevoice.org/, a redshirt group.

Now that I'm back from a late dinner, kudos to Xangsamhua for picking up on that. I was just wondering earlier whether or not coalminer would confirm he was watching ASTV, which he did. So we're left then with

Yesterday:

coalminer, on 2009-11-06 09:38:34, said:

That would restrict Sondhi and hos recently created Democratic Party from being a candidate as well.

Today:

coalminer, on 2009-11-07 13:40:55, said:

every house has ASTV running from 24h on 24h.

Every time a red short leader names the word "Abhisit",

Look forward to seeing whatever tomorrow's muddled misstatement is.

btw, as a side note, the real thai translation for ASTV is สถานีโทรทัศน์เอเอสทีวี and for the red shirt group, it is what coalminer wrote earlier ( สถานึ ประชาชม ) which he was certain was ASTV.

Edited by dataserver, 2009-11-07 21:46:34.

[coalminer]

Xangsamhua, on 2009-11-07 17:55:29, said:

coalminer, on 2009-11-07 17:40:26, said:

Coalminer, it's not ASTV your folks are watching, but a channel run by Thai People Voice http://www.thaipeoplevoice.org/, a redshirt group.

Thanks for the correction.

[Old Man River]

RegularReader, on 2009-11-07 18:39:45, said:

Hammered and others are correct in saying that Thais of the upper NorthEast areas of Isaan have no love for Cambodia.
In all these comments there's not much discussion that Thaksin might have shot himself in the foot by associating himself with Cambodia

While there is little love for Cambodia, I do not see this as having any material impact on the way the people in the northeast vote. Theoretically it would seem like it should, but politically I don't see it. The Red Shirt movement needs Thaksin as he is their rallying point. There isn't anything any pro Thaksin political party can promise that the Democrats can't match other than bringing Thaksin back. Hence, he serves a purpose to the Red Shirt movement and therefore, since they are the only organized group at the grass roots level in the northeast, they will explain this away. I just wait to see what BS they come up with this time.

[dataserver]

Old Man River, on 2009-11-07 22:01:53, said:

RegularReader, on 2009-11-07 18:39:45, said:

Hammered and others are correct in saying that Thais of the upper NorthEast areas of Isaan have no love for Cambodia.
In all these comments there's not much discussion that Thaksin might have shot himself in the foot by associating himself with Cambodia

While there is little love for Cambodia, I do not see this as having any material impact on the way the people in the northeast vote. Theoretically it would seem like it should, but politically I don't see it. The Red Shirt movement needs Thaksin as he is their rallying point. There isn't anything any pro Thaksin political party can promise that the Democrats can't match other than bringing Thaksin back. Hence, he serves a purpose to the Red Shirt movement and therefore, since they are the only organized group at the grass roots level in the northeast, they will explain this away. I just wait to see what BS they come up with this time.

Mustn't forget to throw in the other Red Shirt honchos, Giles and Jakrapob, who also ticked off many Thais, including innumerable of their fellow Red Shirts, with their anti-monarchy stand. Like Thaksin, they are also have run away and are on the lam from criminal charges, but unlike Thaksin, we don't hear much from them, except for Giles' occasional scribblings for obscure Marxist websites.

[coalminer]

dataserver, on 2009-11-07 22:13:11, said:

Mustn't forget to throw in the other Red Shirt honchos, Giles and Jakrapob, who also ticked off many Thais, including innumerable of their fellow Red Shirts, with their anti-monarchy stand. Like Thaksin, they are also have run away and are on the lam from criminal charges, but unlike Thaksin, we don't hear much from them, except for Giles' occasional scribblings for obscure Marxist websites.

Newbie, you seem to be a previous member of ThaiVisa.

For what reason was your membership annihilated and did you need to comeback under your present alias?

I remember to have read that a banned member of ThaiVisa is forbidden to come back under another alias ...

(Hope that mod's don't read this ...)

[Old Man River]

dataserver, on 2009-11-07 22:13:11, said:

Old Man River, on 2009-11-07 22:01:53, said:

RegularReader, on 2009-11-07 18:39:45, said:

Hammered and others are correct in saying that Thais of the upper NorthEast areas of Isaan have no love for Cambodia.
In all these comments there's not much discussion that Thaksin might have shot himself in the foot by associating himself with Cambodia

While there is little love for Cambodia, I do not see this as having any material impact on the way the people in the northeast vote. Theoretically it would seem like it should, but politically I don't see it. The Red Shirt movement needs Thaksin as he is their rallying point. There isn't anything any pro Thaksin political party can promise that the Democrats can't match other than bringing Thaksin back. Hence, he serves a purpose to the Red Shirt movement and therefore, since they are the only organized group at the grass roots level in the northeast, they will explain this away. I just wait to see what BS they come up with this time.

Mustn't forget to throw in the other Red Shirt honchos, Giles and Jakrapob, who also ticked off many Thais, including innumerable of their fellow Red Shirts, with their anti-monarchy stand. Like Thaksin, they are also have run away and are on the lam from criminal charges, but unlike Thaksin, we don't hear much from them, except for Giles' occasional scribblings for obscure Marxist websites.

I don't see where I should throw them in. They are out. As you say, they have alienated many on both sides.

Whatever the real motive is behind this, we can be sure there is a motive. Moves like this one don't happen ad hoc.

[Old Man River]

coalminer, on 2009-11-07 22:30:42, said:

dataserver, on 2009-11-07 22:13:11, said:

Mustn't forget to throw in the other Red Shirt honchos, Giles and Jakrapob, who also ticked off many Thais, including innumerable of their fellow Red Shirts, with their anti-monarchy stand. Like Thaksin, they are also have run away and are on the lam from criminal charges, but unlike Thaksin, we don't hear much from them, except for Giles' occasional scribblings for obscure Marxist websites.

Newbie, you seem to be a previous member of ThaiVisa.

For what reason was your membership annihilated and did you need to comeback under your present alias?

Actually, you are beginning to sound like another banned poster yourself.

[Yoshitaka]

ICT should block this website http://www.thailands...index.cfm?p=277
Thailand has always been rule by Thai's. Never by Khmers.

[Publicus]

caf, on 2009-11-07 19:07:19, said:

Publicus, on 2009-11-07 15:07:17, said:

Still waiting to hear Red leaders separate themsleves from Thaksin. Who among the Reds is saying anything negative about this deal between Thaksin and Hun Sen? Or about Thaksin the economic advisor to the Cambodian government? About Thaksin possibly relocating to Cambodia?

Reds don't seem concerned. Red forumists instead are trying to misdirect the focus to Abhisit, pursuing their old saw that Mark is in over his head again. Abhisit is playing this one by the book, pursuing the established diplomatic options and actions.

Meanwhile Thaksin the Cambodian is almost forgotten.

Thaksin the Cambodian!! Your anti-thaksin emotions are clouding your normally thoughtful points

Actually he is Thai and has some powerful Thai friends. You don't want to admit that do you?

Powerful Thai friends? Agreed. Should anyone around here expect to meet any of Thaksin's powerful Thai friends anytime soon?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Meanwhile Red forumists continue to try to misdirect the thread topic away from Thaksin by attacking the Nation, PAD, the coup, Abhisit, Kasit, other forumists, Sondhi, the Democrat Party, the Election Commission, the judiciary, the powers that be, nosey farang etc etc.

The fact remains Thaksin is an official of the government of Cambodia. Tell us how that benefits Thailand, thank you.

[Yoshitaka]

"Thailand itself has asked for foreign governments to pressure Cambodia to extradite Thaksin when he appears in the country but, as diplomats are already saying Thailand is going about this the wrong way, and as many countries didn't think Thaksin should have been deposed by a military coup in the first place, it's highly unlikely Thailand will get much support for this request."

http://www.examiner.com/x-26647-Asia-Trave...dor-to-Cambodia