389 replies to this topic
Posted 2009-11-07 23:23:04
 Publicus, on 2009-11-07 23:16:49, said:
caf, on 2009-11-07 19:07:19, said: Publicus, on 2009-11-07 15:07:17, said: Still waiting to hear Red leaders separate themsleves from Thaksin. Who among the Reds is saying anything negative about this deal between Thaksin and Hun Sen? Or about Thaksin the economic advisor to the Cambodian government? About Thaksin possibly relocating to Cambodia?
Reds don't seem concerned. Red forumists instead are trying to misdirect the focus to Abhisit, pursuing their old saw that Mark is in over his head again. Abhisit is playing this one by the book, pursuing the established diplomatic options and actions.
Meanwhile Thaksin the Cambodian is almost forgotten.
Thaksin the Cambodian!! Your anti-thaksin emotions are clouding your normally thoughtful points
Actually he is Thai and has some powerful Thai friends. You don't want to admit that do you?
Powerful Thai friends? Agreed. Should anyone around here expect to meet any of Thaksin's powerful Thai friends anytime soon?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Meanwhile Red forumists continue to try to misdirect the thread topic away from Thaksin by attacking the Nation, PAD, the coup, Abhisit, Kasit, other forumists, Sondhi, the Democrat Party, the Election Commission, the judiciary, the powers that be, nosey farang etc etc.
The fact remains Thaksin is an official of the government of Cambodia. Tell us how that benefits Thailand, thank you.
Powerful Thai friends?
We all know he has a lot of RICH family members 
Posted 2009-11-07 23:45:00
Publicus, on 2009-11-07 23:16:49, said: Meanwhile Red forumists continue to try to misdirect the thread topic away from Thaksin by attacking the Nation, PAD, the coup, Abhisit, Kasit, other forumists, Sondhi, the Democrat Party, the Election Commission, the judiciary, the powers that be, nosey farang etc etc.
The fact remains Thaksin is an official of the government of Cambodia. Tell us how that benefits Thailand, thank you.
First of all, I believe Dr. Thaksin declined the kind offer:
http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/200...eport-says.html
(Apparently deemed less newsworthy in the Thai English language press than running a poll on Abhisit's Enduring Greatness & Popularity.  )
Secondly, even if Dr. Thaksin would have accepted it, then why does it need to benefit Thailand? Does everything the man does have to benefit Thailand, especially considering how some factions in Thailand have treated him?
I think this obsessive focus on Thaksin is unneccessary and even counter productive, on BOTH sides. Also the Reds should focus more on the things they truly want to achieve (which is a variety of different things that by no means everyone in the Red camp agrees about), not on a single person. And on the other side, the current government are being complete drama queens about it.. I wish they put as much energy in improving the economy, healthcare and education.
Edited by WinnieTheKhwai, 2009-11-07 23:46:57.
Posted 2009-11-07 23:53:38
Yoshitaka, on 2009-11-07 23:08:51, said:
Blocking something because you don't agree with it really is very childish and undemocratic. ( No surprise that it's on the increase.)
You're correct of course that Thailand has always been ruled by Thais. Thailand only exists since 1939. Or you could go as far back as the 14th century and you'd still be pretty much correct. Before that though, the land that Thailand now sits on was part of the Khmer Empire until that fell apart. That's why you see ruins of Khmer architecture all over the place. Where else would the stuff at Phimai in Khorat have come from, Yoshitaka? (and dozens of other sites, all the way up to Sukhothai). See http://en.wikipedia....historical_park
( Obviously very little of this has anything to do with the current relationship Thailand has with Cambodia. Clearly both countries share a lot in their ancestry but each claim the lot of it as uniquely their own ancestry. Ranges all the way from temple architecture to classical dance. Imagine how much better everyone would feel if they acknowledged that they have a lot more in common than things that would drive them apart..)
Edited by WinnieTheKhwai, 2009-11-08 00:02:01.
Posted 2009-11-08 00:00:58
WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-08 00:45:00, said: Publicus, on 2009-11-07 23:16:49, said: Meanwhile Red forumists continue to try to misdirect the thread topic away from Thaksin by attacking the Nation, PAD, the coup, Abhisit, Kasit, other forumists, Sondhi, the Democrat Party, the Election Commission, the judiciary, the powers that be, nosey farang etc etc.
The fact remains Thaksin is an official of the government of Cambodia. Tell us how that benefits Thailand, thank you.
First of all, I believe Dr. Thaksin declined the kind offer:
http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/200...eport-says.html
(Apparently deemed less newsworthy in the Thai English language press than running a poll on Abhisit's Enduring Greatness & Popularity. )
Secondly, even if Dr. Thaksin would have accepted it, then why does it need to benefit Thailand? Does everything the man does have to benefit Thailand, especially considering how some factions in Thailand have treated him?
I think this obsessive focus on Thaksin is unneccessary and even counter productive, on BOTH sides. Also the Reds should focus more on the things they truly want to achieve (which is a variety of different things that by no means everyone in the Red camp agrees about), not on a single person. And on the other side, the current government are being complete drama queens about it.. I wish they put as much energy in improving the economy, healthcare and education.
Chavalit said that someone said that someone said........that Thaksin wouldn't accept Hun Sen's "offer of sanctuary" in Cambodia, someone said. And that's all someone said.
Inquiring minds want to know the present status of Thaksin's appointment by the Cambodian King to the position of economic advisor to the government of Cambodia. After all, the two countries have agreements negotiated while Thaksin was premier of this place, which means Thaksin knows the Thai position and interests.
Meantime, as has been pointed out at this thread, all of us eagerly await Thaksin's now much anticipated phone in to wiggle and squirm his way out of this fine mess he's got himself in. Laurel and Hardy they are, Thaksin and Hun Sen. The dynamic duo.
Posted 2009-11-08 00:07:51
Yes, maybe tomorrow the newspapers will get around to actually giving an update on this. 
I'm not holding my breath though; besides I subscribe to Dr. Thaksin's Twitter messages so I will know how he will wiggle and squirm his way out of this before The BK Post and Nation do. 
Maybe he can move to Laos instead; culturally even closer, and no major current conflicts. Plus they like the color red overthere already.
Edited by WinnieTheKhwai, 2009-11-08 00:08:13.
Posted 2009-11-08 00:20:34
It's really a sad situation that Thaksin has put himself into. The guy's become so desperate to come home and to regain his lost wealth and power that his judgement and sense of reality have all but abandoned him (they weren't ever stellar to begin with).
Dr. Thaksin is in need of professional help, and lots of it. Trouble is he has to realize the fact. He's been embarrassing himself for more than a year with no letup in sight. He's plunged into an abyss. I do feel for him, but in much the same way I felt for Richard Nixon or for the Vichy French.
Somebody talk to the guy, please.
Posted 2009-11-08 00:53:27
WinnieTheKhwai, on 2009-11-07 23:53:38, said: Yoshitaka, on 2009-11-07 23:08:51, said:
Blocking something because you don't agree with it really is very childish and undemocratic. ( No surprise that it's on the increase.)
You're correct of course that Thailand has always been ruled by Thais. Thailand only exists since 1939. Or you could go as far back as the 14th century and you'd still be pretty much correct. Before that though, the land that Thailand now sits on was part of the Khmer Empire until that fell apart. That's why you see ruins of Khmer architecture all over the place. Where else would the stuff at Phimai in Khorat have come from, Yoshitaka? (and dozens of other sites, all the way up to Sukhothai). See http://en.wikipedia....historical_park
( Obviously very little of this has anything to do with the current relationship Thailand has with Cambodia. Clearly both countries share a lot in their ancestry but each claim the lot of it as uniquely their own ancestry. Ranges all the way from temple architecture to classical dance. Imagine how much better everyone would feel if they acknowledged that they have a lot more in common than things that would drive them apart..)
Back to the 14th century and still being correct?
What about these examples:
http://siamaerospace...od.com/id44.htm
"From the 9th to 13th Centuries the plains area was dominated by the Khmer Kingdom of Angkor. Angkor Wat was build in this time and is located in what is now western Cambodia."
"However, in 1569 the expansionist Kingdom of Burma overran Ayudhaya and the smaller kingdom of Lan Na to the north. It installed a puppet ruler and imprisoned its heirs in Rangoon. "
"In 1760 the Burmese exasperated by Ayudhaya's successes, launched a determined and protracted war against the Kingdom of Ayudhaya. After a siege that lasted more than two years the city of Ayudhaya finally fell into Burmese hands in 1767."
http://www.jack-wall...ocial_t3_03.htm
"The Thai Kings of Ayutthaya conquered not only Sukhothai, but also the areas of central Thailand formerly held by the Mon and the Khmer,"
http://workmall.com/wfb2001/thailand/thail..._the_khmer.html
"The closely related Mon and Khmer peoples entered Southeast Asia along migration routes from southern China in the ninth century B.C. The Khmer settled in the Mekong River Valley, while the Mon occupied the central plain and northern highlands of modern Thailand and large parts of Burma. Taking advantage of Funan's decline in the sixth century A.D., the Mon began to establish independent kingdoms, among them Dvaravati in the northern part of the area formerly controlled by Funan and farther north at Haripunjaya. Meanwhile the Khmer laid the foundation for their great empire of the ninth to fifteenth centuries A.D. This empire would be centered at Angkor (near modern Siem Reap) in Cambodia."
And many others, not blocked and free to read after a Google.
Posted 2009-11-08 01:41:15
I am supprised at some of the postings on this thread,
If thaksin ever does got back into power here in Thailand then there should be some worried people!!!
anyone that think Thaksin is finished and wash up should open there eyes, afterall the present govt are hel_l bent to get him. why?
money talks in Asia, and Thaksin has money and friends!!
I bet there are some worried businessmen right now in Thailand and I bet there is about to be some happy businessmen as well.
a few simple words from an advisor, like "good man" or "bad man" is the difference of making business or not, take the oil factor, so now Thaksin has a hand in that one, again!!!
to many people under estimate the man, remember there are a lot of wealthy and powerful people that do respect Thaksin, and they are about to have a very good foot in the door for business across the bourder, and others are about to get the door slamed in there faces.
the one product that makes trillions of dollars and can cause wars........OIL
maybe the present govt should chill out a we bit and try to work with the man, this could be a great advantage for them or it could be a massive dwon fall depending on how it is played.
what ever happens Thaksin is going to be around for a while yet!!
we have not heard the last of him
Posted 2009-11-08 01:43:12
I bet Chevron what to be friends with Thaksin now !!!!
Posted 2009-11-08 02:22:07
bangkokumpalumpa, on 2009-11-08 02:41:15, said: I am supprised at some of the postings on this thread,
If thaksin ever does got back into power here in Thailand then there should be some worried people!!!
anyone that think Thaksin is finished and wash up should open there eyes, afterall the present govt are hel_l bent to get him. why?
money talks in Asia, and Thaksin has money and friends!!
I bet there are some worried businessmen right now in Thailand and I bet there is about to be some happy businessmen as well.
a few simple words from an advisor, like "good man" or "bad man" is the difference of making business or not, take the oil factor, so now Thaksin has a hand in that one, again!!!
to many people under estimate the man, remember there are a lot of wealthy and powerful people that do respect Thaksin, and they are about to have a very good foot in the door for business across the bourder, and others are about to get the door slamed in there faces.
the one product that makes trillions of dollars and can cause wars........OIL
maybe the present govt should chill out a we bit and try to work with the man, this could be a great advantage for them or it could be a massive dwon fall depending on how it is played.
what ever happens Thaksin is going to be around for a while yet!!
we have not heard the last of him
After reading this post I know with certainly it's impossible to have any sympathy or to try to have any compassion for the tyrant Thaksin who, if he ever were to regain power and his wealth, will seek vengance, revenge and merciless payback perhaps approaching a Thai version of the policies of Pol Pot.
Thaksin is a divider, not a uniter. Thaksin is a tribalist. Thaksin were he back in power would approach Mao's so-called cultural (nazi) revolution and Pol Pot's lunatic mass murders. While one voice does not define Thaksin, Thaksin himself has done more to define himself than any of us could whether we are so foolish to like him or realistic enuff to oppose him and his elite gang and his rent a mob Reds.
Posted 2009-11-08 03:15:44
After reading this post I know with certainly it's impossible to have any sympathy or to try to have any compassion for the tyrant Thaksin who, if he ever were to regain power and his wealth, will seek vengance, revenge and merciless payback perhaps approaching a Thai version of the policies of Pol Pot.
Thaksin is a divider, not a uniter. Thaksin is a tribalist. Thaksin were he back in power would approach Mao's so-called cultural (nazi) revolution and Pol Pot's lunatic mass murders. While one voice does not define Thaksin, Thaksin himself has done more to define himself than any of us could whether we are so foolish to like him or realistic enuff to oppose him and his elite gang and his rent a mob Reds.
[/quote]
How silly can you get with trying to look into the future how Thaksin could/would/should react if he ever comes back to Thailand. Stating he will be like Mao and Pol Pot. Its nice that all people can write what they want, it reveals who has brains and who has not.
Recap.
- Thaksin was deposed in a coup while the majority of the populace supported him.
- Thaksin was tried for basicly abusing his powers while in office, he was convicted, and thats a good thing. Problem is that the rest of the people that matter in Thailand are as corrupt as he is. We all know why the rest are not prosecuted. Rotten corrupt judiciary on the leesh of the powers that matter.
No matter if you hate or love Thaksin you got to admit that he is singled out for threatening the powers that rule Thailand: business elite, army and the power that can not be talked about on TV (Nineteen Eigthy-Four).
Politics is much more fun if you look at it with a distance, its just a great game, don't take it serious, its so insignificant.
MBL
Posted 2009-11-08 03:29:05
DegenFarang, on 2009-11-05 14:13:01, said: This should certainly give Thaksin more credibility in the eyes of world leaders and tarnish the claims of those simply calling him a criminal. If he were just looting the Thai coffers for his entire administration, surely the Cambodian government would not want him advising them on economic matters.
This gives some credence to the claim that the charges against him in Thailand are mainly political. I hope that they are eventually dropped and he can return to his homeland. Whether or not he should be allowed to re-enter politics is up to the Thai's, but I see no reason why he should have to live in exile.
So, suddenly the Cambodian government is angelic because it 'employs' Thaksin (or is it vice-versa)? BTW, he doesn't have to live in exile. He is a wanted criminal on the run.
Posted 2009-11-08 03:55:08
Quote Politics is much more fun if you look at it with a distance, its just a great game, don't take it serious, its so insignificant.
MBL
I recommend you advise the imbalanced and obsessive compulsive Thaksin of your claim certain. He definitely could use your wise if facile counsel.
Posted 2009-11-08 05:57:23
Old Man River, on 2009-11-07 22:01:53, said: RegularReader, on 2009-11-07 18:39:45, said: Hammered and others are correct in saying that Thais of the upper NorthEast areas of Isaan have no love for Cambodia.
In all these comments there's not much discussion that Thaksin might have shot himself in the foot by associating himself with Cambodia
While there is little love for Cambodia, I do not see this as having any material impact on the way the people in the northeast vote. Theoretically it would seem like it should, but politically I don't see it. The Red Shirt movement needs Thaksin as he is their rallying point. There isn't anything any pro Thaksin political party can promise that the Democrats can't match other than bringing Thaksin back. Hence, he serves a purpose to the Red Shirt movement and therefore, since they are the only organized group at the grass roots level in the northeast, they will explain this away. I just wait to see what BS they come up with this time.
I am not talking about the Red Shirt leaders, I am talking about the normal ordinary Thai people in that part of Isaan. Your point about the Red Shirts needing him is valid, but not all Isaan people are "red". Further, I am saying, a lot of their love for Thaksin has to do with the money, not the man. And this could be seen as a "sell out".
Posted 2009-11-08 07:02:37
Let Thaksin shoot himself in the foot once again.
Abhisit is playing his cards well, and getting a boost in public confidence. Peua Thai heavies have seen the latest two polls showing Abhisit is gaining in popularity, and they're doing what any Thai politicians would do in such a predicatment; disdaining the poll results.
But they and the remnants of the Reds are quaking, as yet more bricks fall from their paper mache wall which tries to appear solid (as if backed by many Thais) but is as solid as wet rice falling from a blimp.
Posted 2009-11-08 07:48:47
Publicus, on 2009-11-07 18:25:15, said: caf, on 2009-11-07 19:07:19, said: Publicus, on 2009-11-07 15:07:17, said: Still waiting to hear Red leaders separate themsleves from Thaksin. Who among the Reds is saying anything negative about this deal between Thaksin and Hun Sen? Or about Thaksin the economic advisor to the Cambodian government? About Thaksin possibly relocating to Cambodia?
Reds don't seem concerned. Red forumists instead are trying to misdirect the focus to Abhisit, pursuing their old saw that Mark is in over his head again. Abhisit is playing this one by the book, pursuing the established diplomatic options and actions.
Meanwhile Thaksin the Cambodian is almost forgotten.
Thaksin the Cambodian!! Your anti-thaksin emotions are clouding your normally thoughtful points
Actually he is Thai and has some powerful Thai friends. You don't want to admit that do you?
It would be helpful if you could advise us of the benefits to Thailand of Thaksin being an adviser (economics) to the government of Cambodia, thereby becoming an official of the government of Cambodia. I share the view of the government of Thailand that it's not a good idea and I thus far support the Thai government's response.
Kindly advise..........what are the benefits to Thailand of Thaksin becoming an official of the government of Cambodia?
One forumist said Thaksin needs an income, which could be understandable but, then again.........
No benefits at all. His is a tactical move. But your response did not answer my point. Admit he has powerful friends here. That is what is worrying some of the elite.
Posted 2009-11-08 07:51:13
RegularReader, on 2009-11-08 05:57:23, said: Old Man River, on 2009-11-07 22:01:53, said: RegularReader, on 2009-11-07 18:39:45, said: Hammered and others are correct in saying that Thais of the upper NorthEast areas of Isaan have no love for Cambodia.
In all these comments there's not much discussion that Thaksin might have shot himself in the foot by associating himself with Cambodia
While there is little love for Cambodia, I do not see this as having any material impact on the way the people in the northeast vote. Theoretically it would seem like it should, but politically I don't see it. The Red Shirt movement needs Thaksin as he is their rallying point. There isn't anything any pro Thaksin political party can promise that the Democrats can't match other than bringing Thaksin back. Hence, he serves a purpose to the Red Shirt movement and therefore, since they are the only organized group at the grass roots level in the northeast, they will explain this away. I just wait to see what BS they come up with this time.
I am not talking about the Red Shirt leaders, I am talking about the normal ordinary Thai people in that part of Isaan. Your point about the Red Shirts needing him is valid, but not all Isaan people are "red". Further, I am saying, a lot of their love for Thaksin has to do with the money, not the man. And this could be seen as a "sell out".
I understood your comment, but we just don't agree. I think the main point of our disagreement is that you think people in the northeast will independently change the way they vote because of this while I think a change could only come via an organized, unified group leading them to change their vote. I see no attempt right now by the Dem's to communicate with the northeast voters at the grass roots level, but I do see the Red Shirt movement already doing damage control at the grass roots level.
Hence, this will blow over with no material impact on Thaksin's popularity upcountry. Perhaps the odd vote here and there, but it will take more than this to change the northeast's strangle hold on elections.
Posted 2009-11-08 07:53:46
Publicus, on 2009-11-07 20:53:24, said: hammered, on 2009-11-07 21:38:05, said: awd, on 2009-11-07 19:37:36, said: There is a similarity with the current Honduran Coup where the elected government leader camped out in the neighboring country for a while. Coups historically get very little international respect.
The difference is that th eHonduran governmenmt are recognized by zero countries even less than the breakaway Georgian states while both th eThai coup government and all of the ones including Abhisit's during the tenure of this parliament have been internationally recognized. The leader of the Honduran government has and still is widely welcomed whilst Thaksin has had more difficulty in this way. The questions may be posited of why is this true? Some coups are more readily accepted than others and some leaders are more readily abandoned than others it seems
The OAS (to include the United States) believes Zelaya's challenge to the Supreme Court's constitutional ruling could and should have been handled better and differently than it was, and that the Honduran government has set a bad precedent in its approach to dealing with Zelaya's open defiance of the Supreme Court's constitutional ruling against his unconstitutional plan to re-elect himself.
Consequently, Zelaya is welcome among OAS member states. Post coup Thaksin is welcome in one Asean member state, Cambodia, even though it's been reported Thaksin has slipped into a few other Asean states but has had to scamper out once spotted.
Perhaps Thaksin should gather all his gang abroad to set up a Thai Government in Exile. I'd bet one rogue country would recognize it. It would get all of those nasty people out of Thailand too.
Who exactly do you mean by his gang? You may be getting on dangerous ground, Publicus.
Posted 2009-11-08 07:56:29
caf, on 2009-11-08 07:48:47, said: Publicus, on 2009-11-07 18:25:15, said: caf, on 2009-11-07 19:07:19, said: Publicus, on 2009-11-07 15:07:17, said: Still waiting to hear Red leaders separate themsleves from Thaksin. Who among the Reds is saying anything negative about this deal between Thaksin and Hun Sen? Or about Thaksin the economic advisor to the Cambodian government? About Thaksin possibly relocating to Cambodia?
Reds don't seem concerned. Red forumists instead are trying to misdirect the focus to Abhisit, pursuing their old saw that Mark is in over his head again. Abhisit is playing this one by the book, pursuing the established diplomatic options and actions.
Meanwhile Thaksin the Cambodian is almost forgotten.
Thaksin the Cambodian!! Your anti-thaksin emotions are clouding your normally thoughtful points
Actually he is Thai and has some powerful Thai friends. You don't want to admit that do you?
It would be helpful if you could advise us of the benefits to Thailand of Thaksin being an adviser (economics) to the government of Cambodia, thereby becoming an official of the government of Cambodia. I share the view of the government of Thailand that it's not a good idea and I thus far support the Thai government's response.
Kindly advise..........what are the benefits to Thailand of Thaksin becoming an official of the government of Cambodia?
One forumist said Thaksin needs an income, which could be understandable but, then again.........
No benefits at all. His is a tactical move. But your response did not answer my point. Admit he has powerful friends here. That is what is worrying some of the elite.
While I want to stay out of your arguement of who has friends where, out of curiousity, please explain your comment that this is a tactical move. Normally, tactical moves aren't made without clearly defined benefits in sight. What is the clearly defined benefit in sight?
Posted 2009-11-08 08:05:57
Publicus, on 2009-11-07 23:16:49, said: caf, on 2009-11-07 19:07:19, said: Publicus, on 2009-11-07 15:07:17, said: Still waiting to hear Red leaders separate themsleves from Thaksin. Who among the Reds is saying anything negative about this deal between Thaksin and Hun Sen? Or about Thaksin the economic advisor to the Cambodian government? About Thaksin possibly relocating to Cambodia?
Reds don't seem concerned. Red forumists instead are trying to misdirect the focus to Abhisit, pursuing their old saw that Mark is in over his head again. Abhisit is playing this one by the book, pursuing the established diplomatic options and actions.
Meanwhile Thaksin the Cambodian is almost forgotten.
Thaksin the Cambodian!! Your anti-thaksin emotions are clouding your normally thoughtful points
Actually he is Thai and has some powerful Thai friends. You don't want to admit that do you?
Powerful Thai friends? Agreed. Should anyone around here expect to meet any of Thaksin's powerful Thai friends anytime soon?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Meanwhile Red forumists continue to try to misdirect the thread topic away from Thaksin by attacking the Nation, PAD, the coup, Abhisit, Kasit, other forumists, Sondhi, the Democrat Party, the Election Commission, the judiciary, the powers that be, nosey farang etc etc.
The fact remains Thaksin is an official of the government of Cambodia. Tell us how that benefits Thailand, thank you.
I am not a red forumist. I do not like Thaksin. My point is he has powerful friends ( not rich family as one poster said, not gangsters, not the mob....). Also he has not formally accepted the appointment as I understand it and I think it is only a tactical move anyway. Certainly no benefit to Cambodia
Seems to be rather a lot of shooting from the hip on this thread now. Relax a bit and think things through. There is sa lot of positioing going on.
Posted 2009-11-08 08:20:06
Thaksin the Cambodian!! Your anti-thaksin emotions are clouding your normally thoughtful points
Actually he is Thai and has some powerful Thai friends. You don't want to admit that do you?
It would be helpful if you could advise us of the benefits to Thailand of Thaksin being an adviser (economics) to the government of Cambodia, thereby becoming an official of the government of Cambodia. I share the view of the government of Thailand that it's not a good idea and I thus far support the Thai government's response.
Kindly advise..........what are the benefits to Thailand of Thaksin becoming an official of the government of Cambodia?
One forumist said Thaksin needs an income, which could be understandable but, then again.........
No benefits at all. His is a tactical move. But your response did not answer my point. Admit he has powerful friends here. That is what is worrying some of the elite.
[/quote]
While I want to stay out of your arguement of who has friends where, out of curiousity, please explain your comment that this is a tactical move. Normally, tactical moves aren't made without clearly defined benefits in sight. What is the clearly defined benefit in sight?
[/quote]
You are right, it is wise to stay out of the argument. Publicus avoided the point. He shows that he knows enough about Thai politics to understand the recent positioning but he chooses to slant his posts as purely anti-thaksin. He ignores other points. But he is astute enough to be aware of them.
Taksin is just ruffling feathers and he knows he can do that with impunity.
What was the old Max Bygraves number " You need friends"
Posted 2009-11-08 08:32:55
Old Man River, on 2009-11-08 07:51:13, said: RegularReader, on 2009-11-08 05:57:23, said: Old Man River, on 2009-11-07 22:01:53, said: RegularReader, on 2009-11-07 18:39:45, said: Hammered and others are correct in saying that Thais of the upper NorthEast areas of Isaan have no love for Cambodia.
In all these comments there's not much discussion that Thaksin might have shot himself in the foot by associating himself with Cambodia
While there is little love for Cambodia, I do not see this as having any material impact on the way the people in the northeast vote. Theoretically it would seem like it should, but politically I don't see it. The Red Shirt movement needs Thaksin as he is their rallying point. There isn't anything any pro Thaksin political party can promise that the Democrats can't match other than bringing Thaksin back. Hence, he serves a purpose to the Red Shirt movement and therefore, since they are the only organized group at the grass roots level in the northeast, they will explain this away. I just wait to see what BS they come up with this time.
I am not talking about the Red Shirt leaders, I am talking about the normal ordinary Thai people in that part of Isaan. Your point about the Red Shirts needing him is valid, but not all Isaan people are "red". Further, I am saying, a lot of their love for Thaksin has to do with the money, not the man. And this could be seen as a "sell out".
I understood your comment, but we just don't agree. I think the main point of our disagreement is that you think people in the northeast will independently change the way they vote because of this while I think a change could only come via an organized, unified group leading them to change their vote. I see no attempt right now by the Dem's to communicate with the northeast voters at the grass roots level, but I do see the Red Shirt movement already doing damage control at the grass roots level.
Hence, this will blow over with no material impact on Thaksin's popularity upcountry. Perhaps the odd vote here and there, but it will take more than this to change the northeast's strangle hold on elections.
You are a step ahead of the debate. I agree it will require an organized push to take advantage of this situation, but the conditions are set, to make a move against Thaksin. Whether or not the Dems/BJP can take advantage of it will become apparent in the next few days.
In any case, I stick by my point that Thaksin is wrong if he thinks the loyalty to him is about anything more than money. Isaan people are not stupid - they've had to live this way for a long long time.
Posted 2009-11-08 08:36:55
Err.... "You Need Hands" caf mate.
Posted 2009-11-08 08:44:00
caf, on 2009-11-08 08:20:06, said: Old Man River, on 2009-11-08 07:56:29, said:
While I want to stay out of your arguement of who has friends where, out of curiousity, please explain your comment that this is a tactical move. Normally, tactical moves aren't made without clearly defined benefits in sight. What is the clearly defined benefit in sight?
You are right, it is wise to stay out of the argument. Publicus avoided the point. He shows that he knows enough about Thai politics to understand the recent positioning but he chooses to slant his posts as purely anti-thaksin. He ignores other points. But he is astute enough to be aware of them.
Taksin is just ruffling feathers and he knows he can do that with impunity.
What was the old Max Bygraves number " You need friends"
Just to get this clear, you are saying that the clearly defined benefit in sight is ruffling feathers?
Black Songkran wasn't sufficient a ruffle?
Edited by rixalex, 2009-11-08 08:45:33.
Posted 2009-11-08 09:21:16
tig28, on 2009-11-07 21:16:22, said: I most certainly take every opportunity to point out current corruption --- as far too many posters here write trite and ill founded views with the pretence that all corruption is Thaksin only. ???
The only pretence is the pretence in your head that just because people mention Thaksin's corrupt ways, that means they also think that Thaksin is the only corrupt one. He's not. I've already stated that.
tig28, on 2009-11-07 21:16:22, said: Weirdly you seem to feel that acknowledging existing current corruption somehow diminishes that of Thaksin ...
Please quote where i have denied existing current corruption. I don't. It exists.
You are simply making stuff up now.
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