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[samjaidee]

canoncam, on 2009-11-05 11:24:02, said:

The Khmer Rouge Killing Fields participant meets the Thai Drug War Massacre director.

Sounds like a lovely match made in heaven. I hope they remember their condoms.

I defy you to present any evidence to support your claim that Hun Sen was ever a participant in the atrocities at the Killing Fields.

You should think very carefully before writing such inflammatory remarks. People have been sued for less.

[topsecret]

Has everyone forgotten that Taksin and his government were twice removed from office illegally, and that he still has the majority support of the people of Thailand?

I suspect that right now the people of Issan and the north still feel bitter and angry over their democratically elected government being removed, and perhaps will show more alegiance to Cambodia then Thailand...for the time being at least!

Taksin hasn't gone away, and this move will prove to be either a PR disaster, or a cleverly calculated stroke of genius.

He is poised and ready to pounce....he is bitter, angry and seeks not only power, but revenge. He is waiting for a development with the real leader of this country, and then he will strike.

[oevna]

geovalin, on 2009-11-04 19:15:42, said:

I admire Hun Sen to be so patient with the current aggressive Thai government.
Anyway, Hun Sen shows he has no problem with Thailand: he takes a Thai man as an adviser.
It's even excellent: as soon as Thailand will have a normal government, friendship between the two countries will be as good as usual.

I see what you are saying, but I don't admire Hun Sen. And if I were Thaksin, I would be cautious about accepting any favors from him.

[mrsouza]

TAWP, on 2009-11-05 12:08:56, said:

mrsouza, on 2009-11-05 11:29:46, said:

TAWP, on 2009-11-05 11:16:57, said:

mythBuster, on 2009-11-05 11:11:04, said:

Thaksin makes a tough opponent and that is good, after all their are far more people who sympathize with Thaksin than who oppose him.

Facts isn't your strong side.

The majority of people are clearly not with him, as both the recent elections and polls have shown. Or even demonstrations...

The two gangs out in the streets are minorities and represent minorities, don't forget that.

What elections are you referring to? The last two elections were won by Samak and then Somchai, both Thai Rak Thai. Both of them removed or kicked out using non-democratic measures.
Polls in Thailand I don´t give much for, let´s see what happens if we get a real election again. But then again, maybe that's why they are stalling the elections indefinitely.

The current government is NOT elected, it's installed. A minor difference.

Hahaha, you are a moderator, wow...

If you by elections are referring to people going to the booths, then neither Samak nor Somchai won anything. They were part of a party that got a minority of the votes and then later formed a coalition government under which Samak was first PM elected before he was removed from the position for his unconstitutional salary from the tv show. PPP then THEMSELVES decided to not re-instate him. They could have, since the constitution is still flawed. But they chose not to. Nothing else. Somchai was voted out from the MPs in the coalition, not by any election by the population. All according to process. Same as Abhisit.

But again we see that when facts fail, some of you invent their own...

Please tell me the different between the elections of Samak, Somchai and Abhisit. Mail the answer on a postcard.

Not really a moderator in that sense, just got the status for another project. So my views does not represent Thaivisa, whom of course is objective.

You might be correct technically, but if we are going down that road on how people were removed and shuffled, it starts to get really complicated. I doubt any of us have the full details on what really was, and is, happening in the corridors of power around here. My reflection was on the bigger picture, there is no doubt TRT was removed because of pressure from certain groups that lost big money on Thaksin's politics. The current government is still not elected by peoples vote, and considering the fear and paranoia they have about Thaksin, it's obvious they are not sure they would win if they held elections today.

I am not inventing anything, just looking at it for what it is. If Thaksin did not have the majority of the votes, why did they oust him? They could just have waited for the next election and things would've solved themselves, right?

[Philnz]

For my part, I tend to agree with another poster, who stated that he tried not to get involved in local politics, and has long as he could get by, he didn't care what was going on.

I have a friend who gets into the local politics and is always complaining about what is going on and stressing out about it. IMO it is best not to worry about it because you cannot change it in any way whatsoever, it is equivalent to living in a banana republic, and the antics of the "players" concerned is laughable, with corruption the major force.

Worry about things that you can control, or at least can have a say in, that way you will live longer, and sit back and watch the whole show as something that has been produced in a Disney studio.

[phuketrichard]

h90, on 2009-11-05 10:46:43, said:

otherstuff1957, on 2009-11-05 09:17:54, said:

This is like a game of poker: I'll see your Phra Wirahan and raise you one Thaksin!

The Phra Wirahan is just a bluff.
The real point are the dispute in the gulf borders with the oil and gas. Both Thailand and Cambodia claim them.
The temple has zero value but is nice to mobilize some nationalists.

The temple area is no bluff. If they get the world to accept that the tmeple and land is Cambodia by the map made bytthe french then it goes without saying they accept the same map for the area where the so called "Oil" is off shore.

Thaksin and Sen have brought up huge parcels of land off of Koh Kong for the next super casin/resort

[TAWP]

topsecret, on 2009-11-05 13:06:48, said:

Has everyone forgotten that Taksin and his government were twice removed from office illegally, and that he still has the majority support of the people of Thailand?

No, he and they wasn't.

- He was ousted from his imaginary position as a caretaker PM when his party failed to even use election fraud to get the votes needed for the election to not be declare void and null.

- His puppet-party was not ousted, the coalition simply shattered as some switched side (back to the side they SAID they would support during the ELECTION. So one could argue that they NOW suddenly did indeed follow the wish of the people...but don't let that fact bother you). Some MPs was removed, but that isn't the same thing. Unless you condone election fraud.

[TAWP]

mrsouza, on 2009-11-05 13:21:01, said:

You might be correct technically, but

I like that part. And my 'technical correct' assertion is 100% opposite to yours. What does that say about yours?

mrsouza, on 2009-11-05 13:21:01, said:

if we are going down that road on how people were removed and shuffled, it starts to get really complicated.

No, it doesn't.

Like in any coalition setup, we know there is horse-trading. Nothing complicated about that. How do you think the first coalition was formed? Against some of the parties own election slogans...

mrsouza, on 2009-11-05 13:21:01, said:

I doubt any of us have the full details on what really was, and is, happening in the corridors of power around here. My reflection was on the bigger picture, there is no doubt TRT was removed because of pressure from certain groups that lost big money on Thaksin's politics.

That was surely one aspect, but there was much more. The fear that he was aiming for a life-time appointment was a real one too.

mrsouza, on 2009-11-05 13:21:01, said:

The current government is still not elected by peoples vote

The current government is elected by the peoples vote.

Please show us any proof it isn't.

[rixalex]

mrsouza, on 2009-11-05 11:29:46, said:

The last two elections were won by Samak and then Somchai, both Thai Rak Thai.

For such a short sentence, you've managed to squeeze in a lot of inaccuracy there. Good work.

[LawnGnome]

mrsouza, on 2009-11-05 11:29:46, said:

What elections are you referring to? The last two elections were won by Samak and then Somchai, both Thai Rak Thai. Both of them removed or kicked out using non-democratic measures.
Polls in Thailand I don´t give much for, let´s see what happens if we get a real election again. But then again, maybe that's why they are stalling the elections indefinitely.

The current government is NOT elected, it's installed. A minor difference.

Thanks for spreading your BS around. Should make the grass green quickly.

You forgot one thing - which I am sure you didn't really forget, but instead chose to ignore.

There has been one election - in 2007. That election has produced 3 prime ministers. Samak, Somchai, and Abhisit. All three became prime minister the same way. MP's voted and installed them. Samak and Somchai were in the PPP, no TRT. Both were removed in ENTIRELY democratic measures. Samak broke a law, and was removed. Somchai's party was dissolved for election fraud, by the Constitution Court. Smaller parties grew tired of the TRT/PPP/PTP nonsense, and joined together to form a legal ruling government.

So what does this all mean - it means you need to refrain from debating with the big boys until you can at least give an opinion using facts and not personal op/ed as a substitute for facts.

Edited by LawnGnome, 2009-11-05 13:39:17.

[marsteele]

looks as tho we are all moving to Cambodia. I heard that Thaskin is a great leader and the Majority of thais love him.

[TAWP]

(Regarding the post some steps above and the succeeding answers to the factual inaccuracies of it:) Now imagine when non-stationed journalists use some uninformed friends and sources as basis for their articles, and people wonder why we get such odd articles in the world press...articles that some Red fans just love to show as if they would suddenly become facts if they are printed outside the country.

Edited by TAWP, 2009-11-05 13:40:39.

[rstrauss]

george, on 2009-11-05 10:50:51, said:

The current government gonna look stupid when Thaksin is lifting Cambodia. Then after a few years the Thais will wonder "What happened"?

Since when has Taksin lifted anybody? He will make some grandiose schemes, take people for a ride and pocket the money.

[caveman2005]

Thaksin !!

[BlueSmurf]

george, on 2009-11-05 11:50:51, said:

The current government gonna look stupid when Thaksin is lifting Cambodia. Then after a few years the Thais will wonder "What happened"?

Yes he might lift the "Few" in the country as he is good at working within a corupt regime but time will show he is the usual slime ball and has no respect for human life...i.e. drug wars here. He will be good at what he will be asked to do but at what price? The "Show goes on" ...................

[vision]

h90, on 2009-11-05 11:46:43, said:

otherstuff1957, on 2009-11-05 09:17:54, said:

This is like a game of poker: I'll see your Phra Wirahan and raise you one Thaksin!

The Phra Wirahan is just a bluff.
The real point are the dispute in the gulf borders with the oil and gas. Both Thailand and Cambodia claim them.
The temple has zero value but is nice to mobilize some nationalists.

Now that is a bet I would take. I would bet none of them see much value in Phra Wirahan or Thaksin beyond what help they might be in gaining an upper hand.
Both governments are trying to do anything they can to get any edge in the upcoming dispute over offshore oil and gas reserves. As the west already knows.....you control the energy you control everything.

[LawnGnome]

You guys must understand the larger context of Thaksin's play here. He knows that time has virtually run out to force any change of government, and swing things back towards him. By cozying up with Hun Sen, a person most Thai people openly despise (rational or not), he'll never be back, now or ever. Never say never? Im saying never.

The new fiscal year budget funds just started rolling out the past few weeks. In the next few months, as the Democrat's first budget spending (When you took office, they were using the budget formulated by the now defunct PPP), and now have their chance to show in their own programs that they can turn the country around. As the economy gets better worldwide next year (and Thailand will rise along with it), The Dems will further cement their image as the party that is best equipped to lead Thailand. They have political trump cards in their pocket (Saxena) and are ready to roll. After the constitution changes are made (late next year i would imagine), youll see a new election with virtually the same result, Abh back in in PM seat.

Bank on it.

[swindonabroad]

I can’t work out which is funnier/sadder.

The comical political situation here which lunches from ridiculous to farcical and then over to a full out school boy ‘who can pi$$ the highest’ contest.

OR

The vitriol, bile and mis-guided passion coming from a load of foreigners here on this forum who have no say in Thai politics, are guests in this country and cannot effect any change

[fullcave]

KevinB, on 2009-11-05 12:59:09, said:

I am amazed at how anti-Taksin most of the members of the forum are - and how pro-Taksin so many of the normal ordinary Thais are - Could the reason be that as PM he did lots for the poor and disenfrancised and very little for the elite (of which the expats and other members are part). Well then, as there are a lot more of the have-nots or have-very-little - than the have-enoughs, and have-a-lots in Thailand - we should see his political return at the next free and fair election - what ever we think.

I imagine the Thai military may be concerned that Thaksin could pose a threat to national security. For example if he provides any information of military value or consequence. The Cambodians have after all been very aggressive as late and Thaksin has a vested interest in overthrowing the current government and installing himself in power.

[jayboy]

LawnGnome, on 2009-11-05 07:37:12, said:

Both were removed in ENTIRELY democratic measures. Samak broke a law, and was removed. Somchai's party was dissolved for election fraud, by the Constitution Court. Smaller parties grew tired of the TRT/PPP/PTP nonsense, and joined together to form a legal ruling government.

You lash out and talk about "debating with the big boys", yet your own position (see extract above) is frankly rather naive.In fact if you really believe administrations were removed "in ENTIRELY democratic measures", you really have a great deal more understanding left to achieve.

[LawnGnome]

jayboy, on 2009-11-05 13:54:51, said:

LawnGnome, on 2009-11-05 07:37:12, said:

Both were removed in ENTIRELY democratic measures. Samak broke a law, and was removed. Somchai's party was dissolved for election fraud, by the Constitution Court. Smaller parties grew tired of the TRT/PPP/PTP nonsense, and joined together to form a legal ruling government.

You lash out and talk about "debating with the big boys", yet your own position (see extract above) is frankly rather naive.In fact if you really believe administrations were removed "in ENTIRELY democratic measures", you really have a great deal more understanding left to achieve.

Democratic as deals with the rule of law which is the 2007 Constitution. Your "third hand/hidden motives/elite conspiracy" garbage sells a lot of fishwrap, but doesn't change the facts of the incidents.

My extract above is entirely factual and accurate - a point that I am sure galls you to no end - lol.

Edited by LawnGnome, 2009-11-05 13:59:57.

[xminator]

To an expat community anything that could treathen the daily bear and beach stroll is considered bad. And that explains the feelings toward anything that resembles change. And god forbid this country would ever lift its poor majority to middle class standards. Imagine what that would do to living costs for the forums expats.

[JetsetBkk]

KevinB, on 2009-11-05 12:59:09, said:

I am amazed at how anti-Taksin most of the members of the forum are - and how pro-Taksin so many of the normal ordinary Thais are ...

Another day, another Thaksin story.

Anti Thaksin forum members - normal situation.
Pro-Thaksin ordinary Thais - normal situation.

I wonder if any of the anti-Thaksin crowd here actually talk to ordinary (and poor) Thais. Judging by what they post here, I think not... and so it goes on.

[LawnGnome]

xminator, on 2009-11-05 14:03:32, said:

To an expat community anything that could treathen the daily bear and beach stroll is considered bad. And that explains the feelings toward anything that resembles change. And god forbid this country would ever lift its poor majority to middle class standards. Imagine what that would do to living costs for the forums expats.

I would be fascinated to hear your ideas for lifting the rural poor to middle class income levels. I bet there are 186 other countries that would love to hear them as well.

[rfukata]

george, on 2009-11-05 10:50:51, said:

The current government gonna look stupid when Thaksin is lifting Cambodia. Then after a few years the Thais will wonder "What happened"?

the current government is stupid. (period). never has a rationale for anything.