170 replies to this topic
Posted 2009-11-06 09:16:49
 Scott, on 2009-11-05 19:53:07, said:
I think they are targeting businesses. It will be a while before they come knocking on your door at home.
I hope so but it is likely that it will happen
It will also be a juicy market for the licensed products as I have been receiving messages from microsoft, on opening of my Microsoft word, that I did not have an original copy and would be marked if I do not take the necessary steps for correcting that (To this day I still have 24 hours to do so, after a month or so of reminding)
I did try: When I opened their site I was simply told to buy the original at the exceptionnal price of 3500 Baht then noticed a disclaimer saying that I could declare that I was not aware I was using a copy. But the point is to send back the CD I used to install it, which I don't, and add that the CD has to be this way or that way to consider that I am not a cheater
Well I am going to copy paste every document and just throw the program to the bean. I knom that ma,y of us need this program but I hope, I guess, that I won't be needing it that much, especially since I have a second computer which is a Mac
Posted 2009-11-06 09:21:38
ingvar, on 2009-11-06 10:53:11, said: It is at times like these I am happy that I use Linux and Open Source software 
However I have noticed that when they Cyber guys come around our area, all shops and businesses seem to have closed for the day, all windows and shutters closed...
On a legal point, I would think that if all computers in a company are owned by the employees; for example everyone has a laptop financed by the company in part but owned by employee, everything on the computer including all programs and data is the property of the employee. In this case the company should not have any responsibility at all for what is on each employees computer, I think? Also in this case the company have no rights or responsibilities over the content in the computer?
No, this will not be how it works. Thin "sexual harrassment laws". The company (owner) is responsible for the employees' notebooks if they use them for work, in the office. Otherwise these computers should not be allowed to be used inside the office during woork hours and/or for work. A statement to thsat effect should be made as part of the office policies and employees should sign it. The if during a raid illegal s/w is found on the employee's computer, the company can either delegate responsibility (during the ensuing law suit) or sue the employee for compensation to all damages later. Such damages can be extremely high if important company data is lost during the seizure of the computer. In fact a company would show gross negligence not to have a system in place that ensures legality of software and integrity of company data (e.g. through regular backups).
A company that is serious to protect its own interests will think about all of this and more in their IT policies. A company that wants to save money and avert responsibility will try different ways and risk its business for the sake of a few hundred or thousand bucks.
By the way, the money you spend for software should be in proportion to the money you earn by the work done with that software. Running 100 illegal copies of Photoshop just for cropping or resizing photos is foolish. Running 100 copies of Acrobat to be able to read or create PDF only is foolish. Running 100 copies of AutoCAD to save the training costs for a cheaper or free alternative is foolish.
To those who say that software is too expensive in Thailand (and now I'm not entirely serious): I say charge all foreigner in Thailand the normal price or less, and let the Thais pay 10-20x the sticker price! If they can't afford that then go play in a national park and enjoy the scenery  Or write your own stuff. In fact use the Thai-only markup to subsidise foreigner-software 100%. 
Posted 2009-11-06 09:27:48
orosee, on 2009-11-06 08:58:33, said: crocodilexp, on 2009-11-06 00:20:54, said: foxxx, on 2009-11-05 05:05:58, said: what a joke.
bust the companies paying taxes and employing tax paying staff, and let all the other filth slide.
What a joke. Why pursue a thief while you're letting other things slide? Just let him make away with the loot, he'll use it to feed his family and pay sales tax eventually.
Honestly, individual piracy is somewhat excusable, but when an investment company does it... not much sympathy. They're making their money by operating within a regulated environment, so they should respect laws as well.
Well said. I wonder why it took so long for anyone to point out this obvious fact. Legal software is part of the cost of doing business, and with the free alternatives pointed out here already, there is absolutely no excuse for a business to steal from another business. And why would a serious business rely on a Panthip made computer anyway? If the hardware is mission critical then the smart move is to buy brand name computers which at least all come with an OEM OS installed.
To whoever said that the buyer cannot know whether his software is real or pirated: Duh! Look for the MS license sticker, manuals, original installation media, warranties... pretending to be dumb will and should not get you off the hook. I'm not saying you're pretending.
You don't have to have them (Pantip) put it together - just buy the hardware like I did. I put my own together with "high quality" hardware from Pantip and it is not only trouble free, but lightning fast(7.5 score on Winwds 7 Ultmt out of poss7.9!). As for those harping on about viruses etc. - I will just say you get what ya pay for! Use a free d-loaded antivirus prog and sooner or later you will get probs. Having said that, I used avast free home for ages, without any trouble and I'm online 24/7. Also MS now has a pretty good antivirus for free dwnload for those who have legit O/Ss. Fully agree that us "joes" dabble in a bit of hacked s-ware is not such a bad thing, but as you quite rightly pointed out, big companies have NO EXCUSE!
Posted 2009-11-06 09:35:12
alyx, on 2009-11-06 09:16:49, said: Scott, on 2009-11-05 19:53:07, said: I think they are targeting businesses. It will be a while before they come knocking on your door at home.
I hope so but it is likely that it will happen
It will also be a juicy market for the licensed products as I have been receiving messages from microsoft, on opening of my Microsoft word, that I did not have an original copy and would be marked if I do not take the necessary steps for correcting that (To this day I still have 24 hours to do so, after a month or so of reminding)
I did try: When I opened their site I was simply told to buy the original at the exceptionnal price of 3500 Baht then noticed a disclaimer saying that I could declare that I was not aware I was using a copy. But the point is to send back the CD I used to install it, which I don't, and add that the CD has to be this way or that way to consider that I am not a cheater
Well I am going to copy paste every document and just throw the program to the bean. I knom that ma,y of us need this program but I hope, I guess, that I won't be needing it that much, especially since I have a second computer which is a Mac
You don't have to use MS word - Openoffice does just about all MS word will do, and will even open MS Word docs as well. Oh. And its opensource and free check the link.
http://www.openoffice.org/
Edited by newtronbom, 2009-11-06 09:36:39.
Posted 2009-11-06 09:37:26
alyx, on 2009-11-06 11:16:49, said: Scott, on 2009-11-05 19:53:07, said: I think they are targeting businesses. It will be a while before they come knocking on your door at home.
I hope so but it is likely that it will happen
It will also be a juicy market for the licensed products as I have been receiving messages from microsoft, on opening of my Microsoft word, that I did not have an original copy and would be marked if I do not take the necessary steps for correcting that (To this day I still have 24 hours to do so, after a month or so of reminding)
I did try: When I opened their site I was simply told to buy the original at the exceptionnal price of 3500 Baht then noticed a disclaimer saying that I could declare that I was not aware I was using a copy. But the point is to send back the CD I used to install it, which I don't, and add that the CD has to be this way or that way to consider that I am not a cheater
Well I am going to copy paste every document and just throw the program to the bean. I knom that ma,y of us need this program but I hope, I guess, that I won't be needing it that much, especially since I have a second computer which is a Mac
This can happen to you even if you have bought a legitimate copy of Office with your own money directly from MS! In fact it just happened to me. Last year I bought a Sony Vaio which came preloaded with Vista, a trial of Office 2007 Pro and some fully free Adobe and Sony products (Photoshop Elements, Premiere Elements - good stuff). I upgraded Office from Trial to Small Biz Edition (about 375 USD incl. taxes which should not have been added) but I had to jump through a number of hoops because I was in Thailand using the International version of Vista (not Thai, thank you SONY) wanting to pay with either a German or Korean VISA card. Not easy because MS shops fix you in a certain region and Thailand has only Thai language for the shop, Korea only Korean, ... I ended up using the UK shop because the US shop insisted on a US address linked to my card. Took me three days to get the serial number and a link to the installer files, but until this week all went well, happy and legal.
Now I'm running Windows 7 (another sad story - I tried to pay for it but... well, I had to give up eventually or pay almost 4 times more than I should have paid if buying from the US shop) and after 4 days of hopeless installing and reinstalling of the original S/W and the original serial number, have been told again and again that (a) my serial is wrong (  my serial is fake © my serial has been used more often than allowed and (d) call MS and convince them to give you a 100 digit activation code... yeah right. Just, in what country? Thailand, Germany, Korea or US or UK? And how to convince them? There is no DVD, just a serial and the purchase was made via a third party (Digital River).
Well I paid for it once but I won't add more money or time to what I've already spent. MS might call me eventually. 10 minute download, 10 minute install - I'm running Office 2007 SBE again. Thanks to the Net but no thanks to MS. As for now, my Windows 7 is also from the same source (the Internet) but once I find a way to get legal I will.
One thing for sure: If MS would ever get into the home alarm/home security market then millions of home owners will be f%^&*d one fine day (or more likely, on a freezing Winter night at 4 AM).
What I'm saying is that just because MS is telling you that you're not legal may not mean that you aren't. Remember all those DVD players that enforced DVD region protection? How did that work out?
Posted 2009-11-06 10:09:43
Sorry if this is off post, but I have to rebut all those diehards who continue to put MS O/Ss down. Get real. Look at the % of MS Windows O/Ss installed out there, compared to Mac, Linux etc. I have tried them all. If ya got 1,000,000 XP users and 1,000 Mac users, of course the "hackers" are going to target the "big market" - I mean it stands to reason. Good(or in this case bad) business ethics dictate you go where the customers are. I now use MS Win 7 Ultimate and while I agree "Vista" was a disaster unmodded, this new O/S is everything that Vista could have been - yeah, yeah MS were lazy I have to agree, but they have made up for it in this edition. See the attached .jpg of my own desktop. Pure eye candy! Everthing runs faster and better. Yet to find a mainstream prog that won't run on it. Please wake up you guys and stop the bashing. It is your right to have a "niche product" but it is not your right to put down other peoples preferences.
Posted 2009-11-06 10:13:20
Has anybody checked the legality of police asking to look at your computer, and even more so, of seizing it? If computers were seized, stopping a companies operation, and no illegal s/ware found, why wouldn't a damages claim be valid?
They shouldn't need any more tip-offs. all the companies that are immediately closed would have to be next on the list.
Do blind institutes use computers? is there a MS braille?
Posted 2009-11-06 10:20:13
OzMick, on 2009-11-06 10:13:20, said: Has anybody checked the legality of police asking to look at your computer, and even more so, of seizing it? If computers were seized, stopping a companies operation, and no illegal s/ware found, why wouldn't a damages claim be valid?
They shouldn't need any more tip-offs. all the companies that are immediately closed would have to be next on the list.
Do blind institutes use computers? is there a MS braille?
Yes to both Qs
Posted 2009-11-06 10:25:36
newtronbom, on 2009-11-06 11:09:43, said: Sorry if this is off post, but I have to rebut all those diehards who continue to put MS O/Ss down. Get real. Look at the % of MS Windows O/Ss installed out there, compared to Mac, Linux etc. I have tried them all. If ya got 1,000,000 XP users and 1,000 Mac users, of course the "hackers" are going to target the "big market" - I mean it stands to reason. Good(or in this case bad) business ethics dictate you go where the customers are. I now use MS Win 7 Ultimate and while I agree "Vista" was a disaster unmodded, this new O/S is everything that Vista could have been - yeah, yeah MS were lazy I have to agree, but they have made up for it in this edition. See the attached .jpg of my own desktop. Pure eye candy! Everthing runs faster and better. Yet to find a mainstream prog that won't run on it. Please wake up you guys and stop the bashing. It is your right to have a "niche product" but it is not your right to put down other peoples preferences.
It's not eye candy - it's user interface design and user experience that Apple cares about. User interface design is the top layer of software; it's with what you interact with everyday. Apple will build the user interface first and then code the software and manufacture the hardware to make it work. Microsoft codes first and then throws a design on top of it. It's two completely different approach to making a product - it's not about eye candy.
Posted 2009-11-06 11:14:55
farangpattaya, on 2009-11-05 20:15:06, said: phazey, on 2009-11-05 19:38:43, said: Why have a go at the guys who don't know the details like this - A PC is supposed to come with Windows XP right? They all do?
A new pc is supposed to be delivered with at least DOS and any other OEM sofware (check the specs). Most cheaper hardware requires software that should be bought seperately.
If a shop pre-installs software, that doesn't mean that the software is legal.
I bought a new laptop recently with Windows Vista OEM-version Home Premium and Office Home/Student installed afterwards. Now I'm safe. My former laptop had (has) illegal software only.
It seems that the freeware "OPEN OFFICE" from Linux is extremely popular nowadays; because it is freeware, there is no license needed, but if it safe (spyware, hackerwise)? I don't know.
Our MD recommended Open Office and it was the biggest waste of time ever! We had so many problem with Excel compatability it was completely untenable. We then went and bought leagl licenced MS Office. To this day I still get some odd error msgs and things with Open Office
Posted 2009-11-06 11:23:50
Sparkles, on 2009-11-05 09:06:09, said: mrtoad, on 2009-11-05 18:44:07, said: This is going to be a nice little earner. I am aware that they are out and about in Bangkok as well. I know one biz owner who had to change all of their software, they had been warned though that they would be getting a visit in advance.
Happening in Chiang mai too apparently. What do these guys do when they are not having a crack down I wonder ?
Happening in Sanfrancisco Custom as well, one of my friend's friend came from a Hong kong vacation with 5 videos. The custom told him to pay the fee of $3200 or go to jail. He had no choice except gave the custom his credit card. Now, none of my friends wear fake handbags. We heard the news that we can not carry Louis Vuitton fake bags in France... he or she can get confisticate right at the airport.Be aware these designers can bus our bodies to jail at no time. For the sofware, I am not sure at this point however, I will report back later. My take...
Posted 2009-11-06 11:54:38
ChiangMaiMike, on 2009-11-05 20:36:52, said: I'm in Chiang Mai and went by my favorite computer vendor Ionon last week and asked if the new machines came with Win7 and the owner told me they were not installing any illegal software on the new computers he sold... but he had lots of boxes of legal Windows stuff for sale... Maybe times are changing...?
Even if you would offer 100 Baht?
5555555
Posted 2009-11-06 12:09:11
That's a double earner: First Police gets tea money to tipoff the Pirate software sellers that they make an raid (I was in Pantip a few times when it happened that the people told me that they can not sell DVD/CD's because police will come soon) and then they get another donation by catching the guys who bought of their first source of income.
Monkey business.
Posted 2009-11-06 12:19:00
george, on 2009-11-05 18:19:26, said: Software police target Phuket businesses
Phuket Gazette IT Manager Seubsak ('Big') Sahaworaphan.
PHUKET: -- As part of a nationwide investigation, Phuket businesses are being investigated closely by police for using illegal computer software.
A Gazette source said a 'high profile' property investment firm was raided earlier this week.
Police are said to have seized hardware and software, all allegedly unlicensed. The company was given a million baht fine, the source said.
Following news of the raid, a number of Phuket businesses reportedly closed for the day.
Colonel Sarayuth Pooltanya, deputy commander of the Royal Thai Police Economic and Cyber Crimes Division (ECD), said late last month that "all businesses will have to ensure that they are compliant with the Thai Copyright Act."
"Major efforts" to target companies using pirated software began on October 26, he said.
A list of 1,000 suspect companies nationwide compiled by the ECD has been based on tips, some anonymous. These are typically from sources within the target companies.
Leads are also being shared by the Business Software Alliance, which runs a toll-free hotline and website for informants to report on the use of pirated and unlicensed business software.
In recent months, the ECD has stepped up enforcement of intellectual property rights in respect of software.
August marked one of the ECD's most successful months, with 15 substantial raids netting 54.5 million baht's worth of allegedly non-copyright software.
The raided companies came from a wide variety of industries, including manufacturing, real estate, automobiles, shipping, design and engineering.
Phuket Gazette IT Manager Seubsak Sahaworaphan said businesses should perform regular checks to make sure employees are not downloading illegal software.
“We use a software checking device called System Hound which is installed in all our computers and has a centralized network control point,” he said.
“The system performs regular checks on all of our computers and makes sure all licenses are up to date,” he said.
It was not reported if or when the probe would be expanded to include computer companies that load up hard drives with illegal software when selling new machines to customers.
<img src=http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/pics/pglogo.jpg target="_blank">
-- Phuket Gazette & The Nation 2009-11-05
_______________________________________________________
-->> Get the Nation/Thaivisa news faster via SMS:
-->> 14 days free trial, dial *424010011 on your mobile
NOT just Phuket ! I went down to my accountnats in South Pattaya to find their office nearly empty, stripped of computers and just the bosses and 2 dogs there (canine) as the software guys had raided them and now they have to pay THB 125000 to sort things out, and they are Thai! Take care out there!
Newbie
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Banned
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3 posts
Posted 2009-11-06 12:24:41
You think China'll follow suit on the crackdown thing? Oh no, forgot, the China has all America's money 
Posted 2009-11-06 12:56:31
They were in Ubon yesterday in a very big way.
Posted 2009-11-06 13:04:30
You don't get it. Looks to me like they take the computer to check it for illegal software. You don't get it back until you pay the "gratuity".
RKASA, on 2009-11-05 20:04:38, said: You can use illegal for free or free and completely legal they cost the same, but the later comes with less trouble.
Now would be a good time to start thinking outside of the box.
Open source, Open mind. No police. 
Posted 2009-11-06 13:13:11
newtronbom, on 2009-11-06 09:35:12, said: alyx, on 2009-11-06 09:16:49, said: Scott, on 2009-11-05 19:53:07, said: I think they are targeting businesses. It will be a while before they come knocking on your door at home.
I hope so but it is likely that it will happen
It will also be a juicy market for the licensed products as I have been receiving messages from microsoft, on opening of my Microsoft word, that I did not have an original copy and would be marked if I do not take the necessary steps for correcting that (To this day I still have 24 hours to do so, after a month or so of reminding)
I did try: When I opened their site I was simply told to buy the original at the exceptionnal price of 3500 Baht then noticed a disclaimer saying that I could declare that I was not aware I was using a copy. But the point is to send back the CD I used to install it, which I don't, and add that the CD has to be this way or that way to consider that I am not a cheater
Well I am going to copy paste every document and just throw the program to the bean. I knom that ma,y of us need this program but I hope, I guess, that I won't be needing it that much, especially since I have a second computer which is a Mac
You don't have to use MS word - Openoffice does just about all MS word will do, and will even open MS Word docs as well. Oh. And its opensource and free check the link.
http://www.openoffice.org/
Wow Thank you so much
I am currently downloading it so I will start using it this evening I guess (transferring all documents to this)
I really appreciate
Posted 2009-11-06 13:15:57
TerraPosse, on 2009-11-05 14:55:49, said: I tried to convince my Thai partners a month ago to go Open Source when I was re-formatting the HD's but they didn't want to change. Just showed them this piece and voila, Ubuntu we'll have lift off. Thanks to BiB, I'll get my way and convert all hardware in the office to Open Source next week.
As for sensitive business data being kept hostage or being sold to the competition...well, encrypt all important business data and keep copies on an external file server (I use DropBox for this, which part of 'My Documents'and keeps it all updated whereever I log in from). This way they can take your hardware but you can get to your data from anywhere, anytime. Then you can sit out there outrageous demands and see who blinks first.
Just my 2 satang.
That dropbox is very cool, great way of backing up. Thanks.
Posted 2009-11-06 13:31:01
alyx, on 2009-11-06 13:13:11, said: newtronbom, on 2009-11-06 09:35:12, said: alyx, on 2009-11-06 09:16:49, said: Scott, on 2009-11-05 19:53:07, said: I think they are targeting businesses. It will be a while before they come knocking on your door at home.
I hope so but it is likely that it will happen
It will also be a juicy market for the licensed products as I have been receiving messages from microsoft, on opening of my Microsoft word, that I did not have an original copy and would be marked if I do not take the necessary steps for correcting that (To this day I still have 24 hours to do so, after a month or so of reminding)
I did try: When I opened their site I was simply told to buy the original at the exceptionnal price of 3500 Baht then noticed a disclaimer saying that I could declare that I was not aware I was using a copy. But the point is to send back the CD I used to install it, which I don't, and add that the CD has to be this way or that way to consider that I am not a cheater
Well I am going to copy paste every document and just throw the program to the bean. I knom that ma,y of us need this program but I hope, I guess, that I won't be needing it that much, especially since I have a second computer which is a Mac
You don't have to use MS word - Openoffice does just about all MS word will do, and will even open MS Word docs as well. Oh. And its opensource and free check the link.
http://www.openoffice.org/
Wow Thank you so much
I am currently downloading it so I will start using it this evening I guess (transferring all documents to this)
I really appreciate
No worries. Just PM me if you have if you have probs and I will try to help. Happy you found it useful. It's a good program:)
Posted 2009-11-06 13:57:46
RKASA, on 2009-11-05 21:04:38, said: You can use illegal for free or free and completely legal they cost the same, but the later comes with less trouble.
Now would be a good time to start thinking outside of the box.
Open source, Open mind. No police.
Are you sure open source wont be deemed unconstitutional. Too much "open" cant be legal...
Posted 2009-11-06 14:14:39
kudroz, on 2009-11-06 10:25:36, said: newtronbom, on 2009-11-06 11:09:43, said: Sorry if this is off post, but I have to rebut all those diehards who continue to put MS O/Ss down. Get real. Look at the % of MS Windows O/Ss installed out there, compared to Mac, Linux etc. I have tried them all. If ya got 1,000,000 XP users and 1,000 Mac users, of course the "hackers" are going to target the "big market" - I mean it stands to reason. Good(or in this case bad) business ethics dictate you go where the customers are. I now use MS Win 7 Ultimate and while I agree "Vista" was a disaster unmodded, this new O/S is everything that Vista could have been - yeah, yeah MS were lazy I have to agree, but they have made up for it in this edition. See the attached .jpg of my own desktop. Pure eye candy! Everthing runs faster and better. Yet to find a mainstream prog that won't run on it. Please wake up you guys and stop the bashing. It is your right to have a "niche product" but it is not your right to put down other peoples preferences.
It's not eye candy - it's user interface design and user experience that Apple cares about. User interface design is the top layer of software; it's with what you interact with everyday. Apple will build the user interface first and then code the software and manufacture the hardware to make it work. Microsoft codes first and then throws a design on top of it. It's two completely different approach to making a product - it's not about eye candy.
you are quite right and that's why they made Win 7 the right way first this time. Also their customer support is very good - both auto and for emailed probs. There are also so many outside the box support forums too. I have tried Ubuntu, Linux and Mac - which by the way I really like, it's just that more progs run on MS Win O/Ss. Personal choice:)
Posted 2009-11-06 15:07:34
not a good news, imho Gates is rich enough anyway and all this troubles will hurt business more or less
open source can be alternative:
MS Office == Open Office, AbiWord or Lotus Symphony
Photoshop == GIMP
Flash == Flex
etc...
and what about portable software? if you run it from flash sticker how police suppose to detect is it licensed or not?
Posted 2009-11-06 15:28:05
falkenbach, on 2009-11-06 15:07:34, said: not a good news, imho Gates is rich enough anyway and all this troubles will hurt business more or less
open source can be alternative:
MS Office == Open Office, AbiWord or Lotus Symphony
Photoshop == GIMP
Flash == Flex
etc...
and what about portable software? if you run it from flash sticker how police suppose to detect is it licensed or not?
Agreed if the Open Source community cold only be convinced to give the progs' functions names which make more sense!
Open Office isa good start, but GIMP and all these funny shortcut names...
but so far  good work - for FREE!
Posted 2009-11-06 15:53:30
What a laugh ! .. They can start off easy and raid their own Police Stations for starters. I was in a Police Station last year in Korat and noticed the familiar little "Black Star" in the System Tray on a monitor there.
After that .. they can branch out and go to any Government school. ALL 3 of the ones I've worked for so far had pirated copies of Windows, Office etc etc.
I think someone already mentioned they won't raid Government places because they won't get any money out of them .. well how pathetic is that?
I love this country .. but quite often the "powers that be" are real tossers .. aren't they? Does any other countries Government use pirated software? Maybe I should drop an email to Mr Gates. Yeah ,Yeah .. he probably already knows.
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